If this is true (just sell the team Jimmy)
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Yeah Cal- right now, we're sitting in that unfinished house with no roof, and it's raining pretty hard. I forgot to bring an umbrella. Playing hard, sure they all play as hard as they can, but most of those guys aren't very good. With Bitonio out the o-line is a sieve. Erving is another first round bust, and overall on a talent level, there are more holes on this team than swiss cheese. It's going to take more than a stellar 2017 draft to fix this mess.
Steelers? Kessler is no Bradshaw, and Shelton is no Mean Joe Greene. Sure, all the Browns have to do in the next four years is draft a succession of HOFers with their picks, like Harris, Lambert, Ham, Stallworth, Swann, Webster and a few others. SB, here we come. Too bad some of us might be dead by then.The secret, FYI, Mr. Hoorta,
is to be old enough to have had a crush on Haley Mills when I was ten yrs old.......
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Best example? Paz may never be RT starter quality, but his improvement there plus his showing at OG earlier already combine to give him depth value.
Per PFF, from week 4 on, Paz is the #9 overall T in the league, and the 1 RT in the NFL.. Extend the man now, because he's FA at the end of the season..
Per PFF, from week 4 on, Paz is the #9 overall T in the league, and the 1 RT in the NFL.. Extend the man now, because he's FA at the end of the season..
where is Andre Peat Saints? Looked like Peat made Von Miller disappear this week.
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Is Peat back at OT? My one-time #1 was making a living in the interior OL last I'd seen...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Is Peat back at OT? My one-time #1 was making a living in the interior OL last I'd seen...
Is Peat back at OT? My one-time #1 was making a living in the interior OL last I'd seen...
Saints starting LT Terron Armstead was out. Saints moved Peat to LT & a Strief(UDFA) to RT. Ware & Von got shut down from either side. Good OL play may only reside in Dallas, but this surprised me. Denver had 1 sack. but it was "the master of pocket Puppet". Drew Brees. (check the tape, not many look like Peat
) -
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The secret, FYI, Mr. Hoorta,
is to be old enough to have had a crush on Haley Mills when I was ten yrs old.......
I liked Annette Funicello better.
Haley was in some dorkey movies. -
Tour, please don't discount haslam intervention. If anything it's under reported.
I did not realize you work in the Browns FO...
Without endangering your livelihood can you comment further? Is Jimmah's meddling under-reported because it is in areas of no concern?
Nope just live local and read a lot. Shaw, triv and Pluto all have discussed haslam's meddling. And if you ever wonder why we never have any depth on the team..... Maybe under acknowledged is a better term than reported. I've come to the conclusion he's a total idiot after the whole flying J investigation. All his execs were robbing the customers outa millions and James had nary a clue. He's driving the car while his ole lady has sex in the backseat.I did not realize you work in the Browns FO...
Without endangering your livelihood can you comment further? Is Jimmah's meddling under-reported because it is in areas of no concern?
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It's simple enough to get lots of info on the Haslam's and the way they use a hands on approach to running the team. Especially the areas they know little to nothing about. Google it. Simple. Just type in Browns news. And the people reporting it are with the team and in the building routinely.
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oh, come on. When you revamp your roster to have players who FIT your profile of a winning team -
it's going to be a struggle the first year. There isn't any magic twanger that starts out to build a winnning
team the right way, and go to the playoffs the first year.
the squealers sucked when they started out - Bradshaw nearly got booed out of town, he said they were
terrible.
It takes time to get your roster filled with the talent, the characteristics of winners who fit the TEAM profile.
If we'd had a solid secondary, we'd probably have 3-4 wins by now. I said it before - the Browns are kicking
ass often in the first half, then teams attack the secondary right after halftime and depending on how good
their passing attack it... game over.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
i'd fire the builder if he didn't cover the house in tyvek. then who cares about rain or shingles?
yeah, i've done that too.
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Nope just live local and read a lot. Shaw, triv and Pluto all have discussed haslam's meddling. And if you ever wonder why we never have any depth on the team..... Maybe under acknowledged is a better term than reported. I've come to the conclusion he's a total idiot after the whole flying J investigation. All his execs were robbing the customers outa millions and James had nary a clue. He's driving the car while his ole lady has sex in the backseat.I did not realize you work in the Browns FO...
Without endangering your livelihood can you comment further? Is Jimmah's meddling under-reported because it is in areas of no concern?
Nope just live local and read a lot.
Fair enough... and a better answer than I deserved actually. Thank you...
While "Browns News" is a bookmarked google search here, I've not frequented it lately and when I have run it, I've not read every linked story. Luxury of distance I suppose.
I do know this though... lack of success creates stress in any organization. And in sports nothing creates stress like a growing "O-fer". And when under stress every employee with a grudge who has a press contact is going to grumble whether it's objectively warranted or not... whether it's about peripheral issues or not.
Personally... I'll judge Jimmah (and Dee) this time by the degree to which he (they) has (have) the intestinal fortitude to stay the course.
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We knew we'd be bad, but probably safe to say we didn't think we'd be THIS bad. Listen, when you're 0-10, things get dicey, ok? It doesn't help that our defense has been SO BAD in just about every single category, ESPECIALLY third down and red zone stuff. We are VERY bad on defense, and lately our offense looks just as bad. We weren't supposed to be good, and guess what? WE AREN'T.
These stories are going to come out, and we'll probably get even more as the season draws to an end. Hell, we'll probably have a ton of different sports writers saying how much dissension there is in Cleveland, and blah, blah, blah. We just need to hold strong, nail the upcoming draft, and let the chips fall. Just do yourself to ignore the bullshit, ESPECIALLY from La Canfora. I really hate that guy.
If I had to guess, our owner is about to spend some serious money. I don't know who the available free agents are, but you can bet we'll go after an OL, and probably overpay him for his services. Anybody check out which QB's will be free agents? I'm NOT saying I want him, but what is Jay Cutler's status with the Bears? We made a splash with Jamie Collins, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us try and do it again. You don't want to build your team through free agency, but you can supplement that way.
We suck, and we suck bad. Not only that, but things are not getting ANY better...in fact...they are getting much worse. Gone are the days of "fighting very hard, only to lose barely at the end". Now we just get our asses whipped. We played a competitive half against the Ravens last week, but haven't played a full 4 quarters ALL SEASON. Not sure I'd expect us to either.
As mad as I am about the state of my favorite team, I realize this year was basically a throw away. We had to clean out the roster, start over with young guys, and build a team from the bottom up. Yes, I'm furious every week. I hate this. But I have faith that we have a vision, and I'm trying like hell to shut my mouth and see how it plays out.
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We knew we'd be bad, but probably safe to say we didn't think we'd be THIS bad. Listen, when you're 0-10, things get dicey, ok? It doesn't help that our defense has been SO BAD in just about every single category, ESPECIALLY third down and red zone stuff. We are VERY bad on defense, and lately our offense looks just as bad. We weren't supposed to be good, and guess what? WE AREN'T.
These stories are going to come out, and we'll probably get even more as the season draws to an end. Hell, we'll probably have a ton of different sports writers saying how much dissension there is in Cleveland, and blah, blah, blah. We just need to hold strong, nail the upcoming draft, and let the chips fall. Just do yourself to ignore the bullshit, ESPECIALLY from La Canfora. I really hate that guy.
If I had to guess, our owner is about to spend some serious money. I don't know who the available free agents are, but you can bet we'll go after an OL, and probably overpay him for his services. Anybody check out which QB's will be free agents? I'm NOT saying I want him, but what is Jay Cutler's status with the Bears? We made a splash with Jamie Collins, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us try and do it again. You don't want to build your team through free agency, but you can supplement that way.
We suck, and we suck bad. Not only that, but things are not getting ANY better...in fact...they are getting much worse. Gone are the days of "fighting very hard, only to lose barely at the end". Now we just get our asses whipped. We played a competitive half against the Ravens last week, but haven't played a full 4 quarters ALL SEASON. Not sure I'd expect us to either.
As mad as I am about the state of my favorite team, I realize this year was basically a throw away. We had to clean out the roster, start over with young guys, and build a team from the bottom up. Yes, I'm furious every week. I hate this. But I have faith that we have a vision, and I'm trying like hell to shut my mouth and see how it plays out.
I don't know who the available free agents are, but you can bet we'll go after an OL, and probably overpay him for his services. Anybody check out which QB's will be free agents?
May be better sites, but Over the Cap has a very searchable database for all things FA as well as salary.
http://overthecap.com/free-agency/
Cutler is under contract thru 2020, but speculation is he'll be released at the end of the year carrying only $3mm in dead money for the balance of his deal.
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Great info, Tour! The Cutler reference was only one idea, but I do believe it merits attention. Do I love Cutler? Nope, I think he's a douche bag. He's the classic underachiever. That being said, I DO think Hue Jackson would go after him. Cutler definitely has the ability to push the ball down the field, and if that's what Hue wants, I think he'd be worth a look. Aside from QB, we are desperate for secondary help, and THAT'S where I think we should target the majority of our free agent emphasis. I don't care if we have to overpay for guys...we need help, and fast. We could be ok on the OL if Reiter comes back healthy and really is solid, and don't forget about Bitonio.
How would you guys feel about Jay Cutler? hehehehe. I give it about .0000001 % chance in hell...but hey...we gotta talk about SOMETHING, right?
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Tension mounting in CLE....Really?....when did ja notice that?.......2013? 14? 15?.....just now?
Haslams interfering.............Really?....when did ja notice that?.......2013? 14? 15?.....just now?
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tension-mounting-in-cleveland-where-yet-more-change-is-feared/
Jason LaCanforna??....dude makes a living beating up the Browns with his "sources".......and is almost ALWAYS wrong.....(always)
There are only 2 ways to look at this season....either its a huge success or its a huge failure....
Camp #1 believes this losing is the plan. We intentionally dumped our talent and are intentionally losing so we can draft high. If this is the case, then our FO has succeeded and the owner should be elated that the FO was so successful in dismantling the team and achieving their goal of the top draft pick. A+ for a pass
Camp #2 believes we really wanted win and the FO believed the team would be as good or better(than 2015) with the moves we made and the players & coaches we added. And that there would be measurable progress and growth throughout this season. It was to be a lateral or slightly improved record(Shashi saying 4-5 wins would be a disappointment) and there would be notable rookies showing progress. If THIS was the plan, then our FO has not succeeded and the owner should be disappointed that his new FO & coaching staff have missed their target. F for the fail.
So, it really depends on which camp Jimmah is in.....and none of us know that.....
I will say that both Sashi AND Hue have said repeatedly that they are in camp #2......
There are only 2 ways to look at this season....either its a huge success or its a huge failure....
Camp #1 believes this losing is the plan. We intentionally dumped our talent and are intentionally losing so we can draft high. If this is the case, then our FO has succeeded and the owner should be elated that the FO was so successful in dismantling the team and achieving their goal of the top draft pick. A+ for a pass
Camp #2 believes we really wanted win and the FO believed the team would be as good or better(than 2015) with the moves we made and the players & coaches we added. And that there would be measurable progress and growth throughout this season. It was to be a lateral or slightly improved record(Shashi saying 4-5 wins would be a disappointment) and there would be notable rookies showing progress. If THIS was the plan, then our FO has not succeeded and the owner should be disappointed that his new FO & coaching staff have missed their target. F for the fail.
So, it really depends on which camp Jimmah is in.....and none of us know that.....
I will say that both Sashi AND Hue have said repeatedly that they are in camp #2......
hate to say it but both camp 1 and 2 really suck no matter what camp you are in...first of all, no one should tank a season on purpose..if that is what they are doing, then everyone should get their money back and based on our drafts, they suck anyway...camp 2 there is no growth. i don't see any progression, in fact i see regression as of 10 games in..don't want to hear fucking injury excuses either, that just means our depth stinks. As far as huey goes, he put all his marbles into a fucking gimp qb who i predicted would not make it thru half the season let alone game 1...that started the freefall...and here we are watching another double digit losing season and watching the history of this franchise go under .500...ain't that just wonderful...
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Great info, Tour! The Cutler reference was only one idea, but I do believe it merits attention. Do I love Cutler? Nope, I think he's a douche bag. He's the classic underachiever. That being said, I DO think Hue Jackson would go after him. Cutler definitely has the ability to push the ball down the field, and if that's what Hue wants, I think he'd be worth a look. Aside from QB, we are desperate for secondary help, and THAT'S where I think we should target the majority of our free agent emphasis. I don't care if we have to overpay for guys...we need help, and fast. We could be ok on the OL if Reiter comes back healthy and really is solid, and don't forget about Bitonio.
How would you guys feel about Jay Cutler? hehehehe. I give it about .0000001 % chance in hell...but hey...we gotta talk about SOMETHING, right?
How would you guys feel about Jay Cutler?
If he was a Garbage Pail Kid, he'd be Locker-Room Cancer Cutler.
Keep him far, far away from Cleveland. Because he sucks!
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oh, come on. When you revamp your roster to have players who FIT your profile of a winning team -
it's going to be a struggle the first year. There isn't any magic twanger that starts out to build a winnning
team the right way, and go to the playoffs the first year.
the squealers sucked when they started out - Bradshaw nearly got booed out of town, he said they were
terrible.
It takes time to get your roster filled with the talent, the characteristics of winners who fit the TEAM profile.
If we'd had a solid secondary, we'd probably have 3-4 wins by now. I said it before - the Browns are kicking
ass often in the first half, then teams attack the secondary right after halftime and depending on how good
their passing attack it... game over.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
oh, come on. When you revamp your roster to have players who FIT your profile of a winning team -
it's going to be a struggle the first year. There isn't any magic twanger that starts out to build a winnning
team the right way, and go to the playoffs the first year.
the squealers sucked when they started out - Bradshaw nearly got booed out of town, he said they were
terrible.
It takes time to get your roster filled with the talent, the characteristics of winners who fit the TEAM profile.
If we'd had a solid secondary, we'd probably have 3-4 wins by now. I said it before - the Browns are kicking
ass often in the first half, then teams attack the secondary right after halftime and depending on how good
their passing attack it... game over.
It's like building a great house, and it rains, and some fans raise hell and want to fire the builder.
NO. The shingles aren't on, the windows not installed, driveway not paved. As long as the house is built
correctly - we're golden.
how the fuck can you say rg3 fits the profile...he don't fit any profile...he's a fucking gimp, and baby huey put all his marbles into the guy...nobody wants him...they know he is a fucking injury liability. Not a good way to start a rebuild..his career is shot, face it..and who on this board would have thought we'd be THIS BAD. not me...i knew when baby huey went after rg we'd suck, but i still thought we'd win 3-4 games, which by the way, , STILL SUCKS...I
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So, is it the "plan" or an excuse?...lets have a fair look at this.....
Zombo said:
Ya, I would think so.
You replace Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin, and Gipson with rookies (or worse, in Mack's case)
Ah....but Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin and Gipson were ALL replaced with last years 2nd stringers.....not one rookie.....Pazstor(UDFA), Erving, Pryor(UDFA) and Poyer(UDFA) were all here and we KNEW what they could do......FO failed miserably in not signing OL help.....period
you're on your third QB (another rookie) by week 3,
See above.....maybe had the FO shored up the line, we wouldnt break a QB per week.....probably woulda won a few too
you've had more of your fair share of injuries (remember that Bitonio guy?)
Pretty much the annual excuse....for every team......last year we went through our entire secondary and a few QB's.....year before it was Mack going down, along with every DL we had.....etc.....injuries happen and reveal depth...we have injuries, but no depth....
and "visible progress" is a tough call.
Not really....some players get better....others dont. Even if the team bites, we should be able to see who can play and who cant.....Ogbah's getting better....Nassib aint.....Kessler has shown growth....Kindred hasnt......Devalve just caught a TD.....Higgins and Payton are invisible.....etc etc etc
And....as whole.....these guys are not showing much advancement or growth.....so to expect a jump in performance next year is unrealistic....just like it was when folks were expecting a jump from pre season to regular season....or from mid season on....
Visible progress next year ...
Ok...so, after we draft another 14 rookies, you mean I wont have to watch this mess again and hear how we're playing all rookies? Cause Im curious how we are going to integrate so much additional youth into this team....and still show progress(or "start" to show progress)
this year, drink heavily.
I am. Thats why I bitch so much. Im a mean drunk.
Zombo
Mud
So, is it the "plan" or an excuse?...lets have a fair look at this.....
Ah....but Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin and Gipson were ALL replaced with last years 2nd stringers.....not one rookie.....Pazstor(UDFA), Erving, Pryor(UDFA) and Poyer(UDFA) were all here and we KNEW what they could do......FO failed miserably in not signing OL help.....periodReplaced in the starting lineup by backups, replaced on the roster with draft picks, with future draft picks added:SchwartzReplaced in starting lineup by Pasztor.Replaced on the roster by ColemanAdditional compensatory pick.Browns outlook: 3 years from now when Schwartz is 30 and being paid 12 Mil a year, Coleman is still on his rookie contract and we have an extra player. If anything works out with Paz, it's a bonus.MackReplaced in the starting lineup by ErvingReplaced on the roster by Django UnchainedAdditional compensatory pick.Browns outlook: Previous admin thought enough of Erving to take him in first round and he was a highly rated prospect. Play him for a year and see if he is the guy (looking like a big "No"). Meanwhile, another young lineman gets introduced this year and we have another pick we can use. If we have to dig back into free agency to fill the position in the next year or two, we're getting someone younger than Mack for the same or less we would have been paying him when he is 30+BenjaminReplaced in the lineup and on the roster by ColemanAdditional compensatory pickBrowns outlook: Three years from now when Benji's career is winding down, Coleman could be a viable #1 and still on his rookie contract. Plus we got more draft currency. No brainer for the Browns here. If you wanna say he was replaced by Pryor, then fine, that's an upgrade and it opened up a roster spot, filled by Coleman.GipsonReplaced in the lineup by PoyerReplaced on the roster by Tracy HowardAdditional compensatory pickBrowns outlook: Three years from now Gipson is 29 and did not have enough solid seasons to pay him the money he was looking for. Take the compensatory pick. Poyer is a stopgap, but with all this draft currency, it should not be too hard to find a free safety of Gipson's ilk or better in three years.Now I am not saying this is the best way to go ... but it is the way they are going. It is all about the future. It is all about having a stacked roster three years from now when the guys we let walk are no longer on the buy side of their career.They are not trying to lose games this year. But they are trying to win with shit. It just ain't gonna happen. But it is all about the future of the franchise.They could have polished that turd of a 3-13 team, and re-signed who they could and brought in some more stopgaps, but if you don't have the QB yet, you are just spinning your wheels, so they went for the "blow it up" plan and it is painful as hell to watch this year, but we're just going to have to give it time, because that is the one thing that this plan absolutely requires.Zombo -
Great info, Tour! The Cutler reference was only one idea, but I do believe it merits attention. Do I love Cutler? Nope, I think he's a douche bag. He's the classic underachiever. That being said, I DO think Hue Jackson would go after him. Cutler definitely has the ability to push the ball down the field, and if that's what Hue wants, I think he'd be worth a look. Aside from QB, we are desperate for secondary help, and THAT'S where I think we should target the majority of our free agent emphasis. I don't care if we have to overpay for guys...we need help, and fast. We could be ok on the OL if Reiter comes back healthy and really is solid, and don't forget about Bitonio.
How would you guys feel about Jay Cutler? hehehehe. I give it about .0000001 % chance in hell...but hey...we gotta talk about SOMETHING, right?
How would you guys feel about Jay Cutler? hehehehe. I give it about .0000001 % chance in hell...but hey...we gotta talk about SOMETHING, right?
I'd feel "bad". IMO he's the current day Jeff George. Has all the tools and is one to boot...
Speaking of Jeff George... As I was flipping thru college games this weekend came across his son playing QB (forget which team) and not playing all that well.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So, is it the "plan" or an excuse?...lets have a fair look at this.....
Ah....but Schwartz, Mack, Benjamin and Gipson were ALL replaced with last years 2nd stringers.....not one rookie.....Pazstor(UDFA), Erving, Pryor(UDFA) and Poyer(UDFA) were all here and we KNEW what they could do......FO failed miserably in not signing OL help.....periodReplaced in the starting lineup by backups, replaced on the roster with draft picks, with future draft picks added:SchwartzReplaced in starting lineup by Pasztor.Replaced on the roster by ColemanAdditional compensatory pick.Browns outlook: 3 years from now when Schwartz is 30 and being paid 12 Mil a year, Coleman is still on his rookie contract and we have an extra player. If anything works out with Paz, it's a bonus.MackReplaced in the starting lineup by ErvingReplaced on the roster by Django UnchainedAdditional compensatory pick.Browns outlook: Previous admin thought enough of Erving to take him in first round and he was a highly rated prospect. Play him for a year and see if he is the guy (looking like a big "No"). Meanwhile, another young lineman gets introduced this year and we have another pick we can use. If we have to dig back into free agency to fill the position in the next year or two, we're getting someone younger than Mack for the same or less we would have been paying him when he is 30+BenjaminReplaced in the lineup and on the roster by ColemanAdditional compensatory pickBrowns outlook: Three years from now when Benji's career is winding down, Coleman could be a viable #1 and still on his rookie contract. Plus we got more draft currency. No brainer for the Browns here. If you wanna say he was replaced by Pryor, then fine, that's an upgrade and it opened up a roster spot, filled by Coleman.GipsonReplaced in the lineup by PoyerReplaced on the roster by Tracy HowardAdditional compensatory pickBrowns outlook: Three years from now Gipson is 29 and did not have enough solid seasons to pay him the money he was looking for. Take the compensatory pick. Poyer is a stopgap, but with all this draft currency, it should not be too hard to find a free safety of Gipson's ilk or better in three years.Now I am not saying this is the best way to go ... but it is the way they are going. It is all about the future. It is all about having a stacked roster three years from now when the guys we let walk are no longer on the buy side of their career.They are not trying to lose games this year. But they are trying to win with shit. It just ain't gonna happen. But it is all about the future of the franchise.They could have polished that turd of a 3-13 team, and re-signed who they could and brought in some more stopgaps, but if you don't have the QB yet, you are just spinning your wheels, so they went for the "blow it up" plan and it is painful as hell to watch this year, but we're just going to have to give it time, because that is the one thing that this plan absolutely requires.Zombo
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