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Thinking about the draft, first two picks...arguing with myself...

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  • Good to see someone has fun arguing with you... 😉

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    C 1 Reply

  • Is Kindred not on roster?

    C 1 Reply

  • Don't get the fascination with the NC quarterback. Might want to look to the northwest if youre serious about drafting a QB.

    C The GipperT 2 Replies
  • miktoxicM miktoxic

    Don't get the fascination with the NC quarterback. Might want to look to the northwest if youre serious about drafting a QB.

    @miktoxic said:

    Don't get the fascination with the NC quarterback. Might want to look to the northwest if youre serious about drafting a QB.

    ha. You mean Brady Gustafson? He's an amazing kid....a late round project.

    a poor man's Kosar, without the brilliance in reading defenses....

    http://www.qbmecca.com/brady-gustafson-not-next-fcs-star-quarterback/

    or, more likely, you mean Mason Rudolph... he's very interesting, but not pro ready....some talk

    about him getting into the first round... he isn't ready either...

    https://withthefirstpick.com/2016/08/16/2017-nfl-draft-oklahoma-state-mason-rudolph-scouting-report/

    T 1 Reply
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    Good to see someone has fun arguing with you... 😉

    @tour2ma said:

    Good to see someone has fun arguing with you... 😉

    You got sense of humor ? COOL !

  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    Is Kindred not on roster?

    @tiamat63 said:

    Is Kindred not on roster?

    Kindred is terrific, but he's the free safety...unless I'm missing your point...

  • C calfoxwc

    So, let's think about it, even though it's early as hell...

    I was wondering if anybody else is arguing with themselves about it for the fun of it.

    Here's the list I came up with, as to the possible/probable picks of the Browns in the first round.

    (Hooker staying in school..?)
    Jamal Adams S, LSU
    Jabril Peppers S, Michigan
    Trubisky Qb, North Carolina ***
    Pat Elfein C/G, Ohio State
    yan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin
    Quincy Wilson CB, Florida
    Marlon Humphrey, CB, Alabama
    Marshon Lattimore**, CB, Ohio State
    Jonathan Allen, DE, Alabama
    Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama
    PICK ONE: The more I watch film of Trubisky, I pick him. At the top of the draft. Do you know, he
    is an inch taller and about the same weight as AARON RODGERS ? He has it all - especially the intangibles, sees the field,
    can make the throws, very, very accurate, especially on the run... just gets it. All of it. He is the dramatic fix for the qb position. I don't know if anybody else compares him to Rodgers,
    mebbe I'll catch hell for it...but that is what I think I'm thinkin. Root for the stupid cards and niners to win a few games.....
    PICK TWO: This pick is hell. The Browns desperately need a SS that kicks ass, can
    take over a game, could be all pro material... with Hooker maybe staying in school, Adams
    or Peppers may very well be a feared, well-known ass kicker for the Browns defense.
    (Not sure about Peppters as much.. maybe in coverage? Character fit?)
    But... so would Reuben Foster. The Browns desperately need a dominant lb play maker with speed,
    serious playmaking ability sideline to sideline, with great instincts.... I could find a safety later...
    but maybe not a lb like Foster. How much more would Foster add to the Browns defense, more than
    an Adams/Peppers? beats me.
    or.... maybe Allen, at DE, might be the link to going far more 4-3, and going after opposing
    qb's more dramatically, which helps the secondary and the lb's ! Allen might be the best
    DE in the draft, even with Garrett being considered the first to go in the draft. I just don't
    know if there's a kick ass safety in the second round.
    or... is there another DE that could also be a great addition to the pass rush later, and you
    add an offensive lineman, which dramatically fixes your offense, too.
    To me, the Browns desperately need a fix at center - Elfein is a solid wall. He's been compared
    by one NFL scout to...Zack Martin, Dallas Cowboys, who was picked 16th overall.
    It isn't that great a draft in olinemen, if Quentin Nelson and whatshisname, OT, both from ND,
    stay in school. Thinking that Elfein will be there at the top of the second for the Browns
    is surely a bunch of bullhockey.
    But God Help Us All, if Joe Thomas gets hurt. That's why I listed Ramczyk - he could take over
    at RT, and flip to LT eventually. Or... maybe Ramczyk falls to the Browns in the second round.
    fat chance of that...?
    ah, if only we had three first round draft picks... dammit.
    right now... I'm thinking you have to go with the SS, or Reuben Foster...and maybe one of the olinemen
    will fall to the second round. The Browns can't defend the pass, plain and simple. Way too easy
    to pitch and catch against them, and who knows if Joe Haden has lost a half step, or will come
    back next year fast as ever.... gotta find a CB somewhere, but it's deep in cb's.
    right now... I'm thinking you have to go with the SS, or Reuben Foster...and maybe one of the olinemen will fall to the second round

    @calfoxwc said:

    right now... I'm thinking you have to go with the SS, or Reuben Foster...and maybe one of the olinemen will fall to the second round

    @tiamat63 said:

    Is Kindred not on roster?

    And Campbell?

    We drafted SS the last 2 years....so we have 2 younguns vying for that position already......

    ......lets see how the kids develop before we do it again....

    T C 2 Replies
  • MudflyM Mudfly

    @calfoxwc said:

    right now... I'm thinking you have to go with the SS, or Reuben Foster...and maybe one of the olinemen will fall to the second round

    @tiamat63 said:

    Is Kindred not on roster?

    And Campbell?

    We drafted SS the last 2 years....so we have 2 younguns vying for that position already......

    ......lets see how the kids develop before we do it again....

    @mudfly said:

    And Campbell?

    We drafted SS the last 2 years....so we have 2 younguns vying for that position already......

    ......lets see how the kids develop before we do it again....

    Give the DB's a pass rusher and see how much better they all get when they don't have to cover 5-7 seconds a play.

    C flyingfooldougF Tour2maT 3 Replies
    👍
  • MudflyM Mudfly

    @calfoxwc said:

    right now... I'm thinking you have to go with the SS, or Reuben Foster...and maybe one of the olinemen will fall to the second round

    @tiamat63 said:

    Is Kindred not on roster?

    And Campbell?

    We drafted SS the last 2 years....so we have 2 younguns vying for that position already......

    ......lets see how the kids develop before we do it again....

    @mudfly said:

    And Campbell?

    We drafted SS the last 2 years....so we have 2 younguns vying for that position already......

    ......lets see how the kids develop before we do it again....

    well...http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns-team-depth-chart

    I saw this -

    Free Safety

    1. Derrick Kindred

    2 Tracy Howard

    and

    Strong Safety

    1. Ed Reynolds

    2. Ibraheim Campbell.

    however, a better depth chart shows this

    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/depth-chart.html

    FS Ed Reynolds II Tracy Howard

    SS Derrick Kindred Ibraheim Campbell
    so, you are correct - it's free safety, then. Personally, I still would draft a blue chip game changing
    safety to play at SS, and move Campbell to FS again. Reynolds is smart, big, but not
    athletic enough to be starting. Tracy Howard is smaller, was a wr and cb in college...
  • T TexasAg1969

    @mudfly said:

    And Campbell?

    We drafted SS the last 2 years....so we have 2 younguns vying for that position already......

    ......lets see how the kids develop before we do it again....

    Give the DB's a pass rusher and see how much better they all get when they don't have to cover 5-7 seconds a play.

    @texasag1969 said:

    Give the DB's a pass rusher and see how much better they all get when they don't have to cover 5-7 seconds a play.

    this is true, except all too often, they simply throw immediately to a wide open te or wr. Only superman could

    get to the qb fast enough enough. If the Browns had their starting qb already - the Browns could go DE and S

    in the first round.

    too many stupid picks made by previous coaches and front offices. gilbert and manziel. dammit.

  • Campbell was never a free safety. He's another TJ Ward, Donte Whitner, big hitting strong safety than can come unstuck in coverage. Kindred is largely the same. Not simply a case of 'moving him to free safety'.

  • Very True, and I am wrong - but reading this..

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/derrick-kindred?id=2555540

    makes me figure that Ed Reynolds isn't a FS either....

    so, it IS free safety instead of strong safety.

    ...dammit. except when I read this, Campbell is a box safety, too...

    just seems to be ...

    dammit.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/ibraheim-campbell?id=2552605

  • C calfoxwc

    Very True, and I am wrong - but reading this..

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/derrick-kindred?id=2555540

    makes me figure that Ed Reynolds isn't a FS either....

    so, it IS free safety instead of strong safety.

    ...dammit. except when I read this, Campbell is a box safety, too...

    just seems to be ...

    dammit.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/ibraheim-campbell?id=2552605

    @calfoxwc said:

    Very True, and I am wrong

    cd2b4793950aee02cab6808d9592838c1f6da982

    👍
  • T TexasAg1969

    @mudfly said:

    And Campbell?

    We drafted SS the last 2 years....so we have 2 younguns vying for that position already......

    ......lets see how the kids develop before we do it again....

    Give the DB's a pass rusher and see how much better they all get when they don't have to cover 5-7 seconds a play.

    @texasag1969 said:

    Give the DB's a pass rusher and see how much better they all get when they don't have to cover 5-7 seconds a play.

    Brilliant! I'm betting that's why they say games are won or lost at the LOS. I just wish our FO understood that concept too.

  • Eddie Jackson is a guy I have my eye on. He could be the next Earl Thomas.

  • T TexasAg1969

    @mudfly said:

    And Campbell?

    We drafted SS the last 2 years....so we have 2 younguns vying for that position already......

    ......lets see how the kids develop before we do it again....

    Give the DB's a pass rusher and see how much better they all get when they don't have to cover 5-7 seconds a play.

    @texasag1969 said:

    Give the DB's a pass rusher and see how much better they all get when they don't have to cover 5-7 seconds a play.

    Would be my preference as well. One dominant edge player would also do wonders for the rest of our DL's pass rush. Once you force most QBs to move off their spot, good things tend to happen.

    @gftchris said:

    Campbell was never a free safety. He's another TJ Ward, Donte Whitner, big hitting strong safety than can come unstuck in coverage. Kindred is largely the same. Not simply a case of 'moving him to free safety'.

    And therein lies the problem...

    More and more the trend is to have Safeties be more interchangeable, i.e., FSs that can fill and SSs that can cover. Easier to say than to find such talent, but it is what is demanded if you want to cover today's passing attacks. It's one of the elements that has separated great Ds from the pack in recent years.

    I'm thinking that may be what cal is going after.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • I'm not sure I see so much value in a specialised strong safety. I'd rather two free safeties who can tackle when necessary. Two Ed Reeds over two Troy Polamalus. The strong safety's job is to...deliver a big hit sometimes? Be an extra linebacker sometimes? Set the tone?

    Tour2maT 1 Reply

  • The first two picks are torture right now because we simply need so much. As I've said before, a dominant pass rusher can completely change the game. To my immense surprise, I read that Ogbah actually ranks 8th in the league during the past six games in total QB "pressures". Now, he hasn't gotten home nearly enough, but that's also because he doesn't have anybody opposite of him creating the same pressure. Nassib isn't playing well, and that's upsetting. We still have Orchard on the roster, who would actually be playing right now, but since we designated RG III has the sole "I.R. player set to return", he isn't allowed back on the field. Really sucks because he need him, but whatever.

    Don't look now, but the addition of Reynolds, Boddy-Calhoun, Jamar Taylor, and Jamie Collins have actually tightened up our defense a bit. We're obviously not the 85 Bears, but it's better than it was. Especially plays going "over the top". Our biggest issue on defense is not getting sacks/pressure, and also not creating turnovers. Hell, the one turnover we just got was on special teams. Believe it or not, our OFFENSE is now the glaring issue. We can't score any points, and we sure as hell can't punch the ball in the end zone when we DO get close. It's really sad, and it's something that Hue Jackson has to figure out. With Greco out, we're completely screwed on the line. We need help everywhere.

    Honestly, there's nothing wrong with best player available. Chances are, that player will fit an immense need. I'm growing concerned about our team having the #1 pick, as we still have a chance to win a game, and if we do....the 49's will vault over us and take command of the first overall selection (their schedule gives them the tie-breaker). The GOOD news is, the 49's get to play the Bears this weekend, and that will be an EXCELLENT chance for them to win another game. If THAT happens, the first pick is all but ours. To my surprise, Kaeperick has played decently, and they just might sneak another win against the lowly Bears (God forbid WE get to play them).

    Our Eagles first round pick is ALL over the place right now. They are currently in a logjam with a dozen other teams sporting a similar or exact record. It will come down to tie-breakers, and I don't know their schedule strength compared to others. The Eagles also get to play the Bengals this week (I think), and they are REELING right now. As it stands right now, the Eagles pick is between 10-16 I believe. Every loss they incur now will DRASTICALLY help our pick, so here's to hoping. The Eagles shit the bed the rest of the season, and that pick could start looking REALLY NICE. If someone was to put a gun to my head and ask where I see their pick being...I'd say 16.

    So we have 1 and 16...let's work with that. We take Myles Garrett at 1, and then we take rangy inside linebacker Zach Cunningham from Vanderbilt. "But Jiggins, that's two defenders in the first round and we can't score any points!" Yes, that's true, but hold tight. We have two second rounders this year, and two next year. We will trade one second rounder this year, and one NEXT year (and probably other high rounders) for Jimmy Garoppolo from the Patriots. We have done business with them before, and I think we do it again. Garoppolo has starting experience, a quick release, and enough athletic ability to run the offense Hue wants. He also is intelligent, and won't hold the ball as long as others. This still gives us a second round pick in 2016, and with that, we take a Guard/Center Ethan Pocic from LSU. So here's what we have with our first and second round picks:

    1. Myles Garrett - blue chip pass rusher, best overall player in draft.

    2. Zach Cunningham - inside linebacker, speedy, rangy, with versatility.

    3. Jimmy Garoppolo - our new QB from Patriots. (42-60 for about 500 yards, 4 tds, 0 picks)

    4. Ethan Pocic - Guard/Center lineman, versatility and physicality from LSU.

    *mic drop*

    (yes, I'm a dreamer, and I'm crazy...but whatever)

    Bob806B 1 Reply

  • Is orchard ready to play now? And he cant becausebwe brought robert the glass back? Omg....you couldnt write some of this dumb shit. We just have to have 4 active qb's i guess. Not like we need any help rushing the passer, nope we're good there.....?

  • C Clevfan4life

    Is orchard ready to play now? And he cant becausebwe brought robert the glass back? Omg....you couldnt write some of this dumb shit. We just have to have 4 active qb's i guess. Not like we need any help rushing the passer, nope we're good there.....?

    @clevfan4life said:

    Is orchard ready to play now? And he cant becausebwe brought robert the glass back? Omg....you couldnt write some of this dumb shit. We just have to have 4 active qb's i guess. Not like we need any help rushing the passer, nope we're good there.....

    I COULD be mistaken, but from what the radio guys said on the show yesterday, it sure sounded like he was either good to go, or VERY close to it. Like, he'd be back after the bye.

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