Draft grade time....
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Nice evaluation.
I think, unless Nassib starts juicing, he's going to slowly melt away. NFL OLinemen kept him in check relatively easily. He's better suited to basketball.
I did not want Coleman as our #1 pick either. I wanted a big receiver. But of the top 4 receivers he's actually produced fairly well...even with all of the time lost for his broken hand. Will Fuller was the best producer.
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Nice evaluation.
I think, unless Nassib starts juicing, he's going to slowly melt away. NFL OLinemen kept him in check relatively easily. He's better suited to basketball.
I did not want Coleman as our #1 pick either. I wanted a big receiver. But of the top 4 receivers he's actually produced fairly well...even with all of the time lost for his broken hand. Will Fuller was the best producer.
Nice evaluation.
I think, unless Nassib starts juicing, he's going to slowly melt away. NFL OLinemen kept him in check relatively easily. He's better suited to basketball.
I did not want Coleman as our #1 pick either. I wanted a big receiver. But of the top 4 receivers he's actually produced fairly well...even with all of the time lost for his broken hand. Will Fuller was the best producer.
The pick I hounded for might have something to say about that.
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Your welcome I am glad I could correct your mistake. BTW there isn't another soul on this board that would give Gilbert anything more that a F.
Well....I count at least 1.....
Pretty much on the money, Mud.
or...maybe 2....
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Nice thread. Questions:
Why did you give Bitonio a B+ for this year?
Would it take away from the overall point of the thread here to consider what we got in return for trading players we picked (like in West's case)?
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Nice thread. Questions:
Why did you give Bitonio a B+ for this year?
Would it take away from the overall point of the thread here to consider what we got in return for trading players we picked (like in West's case)?
Nice thread. Questions:
Why did you give Bitonio a B+ for this year?
Would it take away from the overall point of the thread here to consider what we got in return for trading players we picked (like in West's case)?
Fwiw, it looked like we ran the ball really well for a big stretch while was healthy. I think Crow was averaging above 6 yards a carry for about 4 weeks early. On top of that, his experience and chemistry on the left side was missed. It's really shown up when our inexperienced LG and Center has whiffed against x-stunts up front.
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Nice thread. Questions:
Why did you give Bitonio a B+ for this year?
Would it take away from the overall point of the thread here to consider what we got in return for trading players we picked (like in West's case)?
Nice thread. Questions:
Why did you give Bitonio a B+ for this year?
Would it take away from the overall point of the thread here to consider what we got in return for trading players we picked (like in West's case)?
Well...I down graded Bito for last season, because I felt his performance had dropped some....but this season, he was back to a high level.....(until injured).....and that was apparent in the drop off to the running game.....so B+...
I didnt get wrapped up in the returns for some of these guys....tho in Wests case, we got nothing.....the conditional 7th was withdrawn when the Tits cut him....
However....we do have a 5th and 6th for Mingo and Gilbert.....so there is a very slight chance that a contributor still might be found.....very slight....
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and here's the break out on 2016.....
C. Coleman....1-15.....Im on record as not liking this one....didnt like the trade back....didnt like picking WR 1st(or 4 of em ftm)....and, if we were gonna pick one, Coleman wouldnt have been my choice.....none the less, I WANT him to succeed 100%....The predraft take was that he had speed and elusiveness and a knack for the end zone......the knocks were that he had suspect hands, didnt always run good routes(or develop separation) and rarely won the 50/50 balls.......and, based upon this season, Id say the pre-draft analysis was spot on.....he flashes and shows that he can/will be an exciting player....who occassionally will break your heart with drops or just by vanishing.....only had one big game all season and a few disappointing injuries, which caused him to miss pre-season and several regular season games.....in the end, it was a disappointing season and certainly not what we "hoped" to see.....but I see enough talent that Id expect a much better season next year, assuming he can stay healthy....
E. Ogbah....2-32....technically #32 is a first rounder.....Ogbah was ranked high, but not on anybodies radar prior to the draft. I read back and really nobody was stumping for this guy....so, to me, it was a ho hum pick(and I HATED the idea of him as an OLB)....BUT, in the end, he gave us exactly what we hoped to see.....a DE that can get to the QB and has the speed to play the run.....And, even on a shitty defense, you could see him clearly getting better as the season wore on......and he put up good consistent numbers for a de, in terms of tackles, etc......based upon his visible growth, he should be much better next season.....easily our best pick.....
C. Nassib....3-65....I loved this pick and had Nassib on my pre-draft list as a worthwhile project player.....and he started nicely, flashing in pre-season, then having a solid game #1....but.....then.....he vanished....then hurt his hand and missed games.....then came back, but was still invisible.......I love his fire and personality and am REALLY rooting for him to add strength and raise the bar on his game next year....BUT, based upon that early flash, I have to say Im pretty disappointed in his lack of development and overall performance.....fingers crossed for next season.....
S. Coleman....3-76....obviously not a productive season.....so, year one = nada....future bust? future star?.....who knows.....
C. Kessler....3-93....easily summarized.....didnt like taking a backup with a 3rd rounder and still dont...and predicted we'd still need a QB and we still do.....so, for me, this was a wasted pick on a guy we could have tapped much later.....none the less, since he was a UDFA level player(in my mind), Id say he played better than I expected and looks like he might, at least, be a back up(which we will always need).....hope he gets better....
J. Schobert....4-99.....I kinda liked this guys as a 5th rounder and thought he went a tad early......since we were desperate for OLBs, I was happy to see one FINALLY brought in(too little too late tho).....but was disappointed he was the only one......he did NOT look good in pre-season, so I was AMAZED to see him as the starter.....and not so amazed when he finally hit the bench.....he did not have a good season and did not show measurable improvment...say hello to Tank Carder on the outside.....4th rounder will stick for a while and add a tackle here and there......eh....
R. Louis....4-119....eh 2....nothing exciting here....not sure what to make of him.....
D. Kindred....4-129.....our second best pick, right here.....looked good in pre-season and showed improvement going forward....I have high hopes that he can return in year 2 and solidify the SS position.....
S. Devalve...4-138....a middle pick and a middle type performance....he looks ok....seems to be able to catch.....and has gained reps late in the season(which is good)....bodes well for him and not so well for Telfer.....willing to wait and see if he develops into a player.....
S. Payton...5-154....this was a bit of a wtf pick, because it was WR #3 and I was shocked....none the less, he was touted as sure handed, reliable, the all-time USC wr, etc etc.....then he missed training camp(bad)......then he went all season and didnt play(bad).....then he got busted for PED's and suspended(very bad).....in the end, this is looking like a very shitty pick....it happens
S. Drango...5-168....at the time of this pick, Drango looked like a steal....touted to go higher(I believe)....but we rate him as a 5th, because he was a 5th.....and I think he did pretty well.....with all the OL problems, he got his reps and never really stood out as the problem....which is good.....looks like he WILL develop, and Id expect him to stick for a while....good pick, me thinks....
S. Higgins...5-172....another guy that seemed like a good value pick, tho I was still rattled by selecting yet another WR.....lots of folks were really hyped by this guy during camp(tho Im not sure why).....he had a couple drops and bumps, but in the little time he played, Id say he did pretty well....got no qualms with him and think he also will stick(over Payton and Louis) and become the next WR behind the starters....
T. Caldwell..6th....eh, been on PS all season, which is par for the course if you're a 6th rounder......next year he grows or goes ...
Scooby....7th....loved Scooby and was really happy they selected him.....I thought he actually showed better in pre-season, then Schobert and flashed on special teams....unfortunately for him, Carder and Alexander flashed more on D, sealing his fate to PS......AND, unfortunately again, another team had eyes for him and stole him away.....shit happens.....
S. Payton...5-154....this was a bit of a wtf pick, because it was WR #3 and I was shocked....none the less, he was touted as sure handed, reliable, the all-time USC wr, etc etc.....then he missed training camp(bad)......then he went all season and didnt play(bad).....then he got busted for PED's and suspended(very bad).....in the end, this is looking like a very shitty pick....it happens
What the hell kind of crap is this ^? Dude went to UCLA not USC....... What a shitty analysis........
Nice read Mud and Merry Christmas!
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Footnote of the season regarding the 2016 draft:
Goff went 11/24 for 90 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT against the 49ers. labeling him Not Good is an understatement.. Thank God we have Coleman rather than Goff, even with the issues noted above regarding Coleman!
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Nice work. A little harsh on Coleman with D+.
28 catches 373 yards 13.3 ypc 3 TDS in 9 starts isn't great, but it isn't dogshit for a rookie WR lined up with another inexperienced wr, thrown to by a rook and some vets under duress.
Extrapolated over 16 games, his stats are 50 Catches, 663 Yards, 5 TDs. I think that would compare favorably with most mid-first-round WRs over the years.
Zombo
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Can i quibble?
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Nice work. A little harsh on Coleman with D+.
28 catches 373 yards 13.3 ypc 3 TDS in 9 starts isn't great, but it isn't dogshit for a rookie WR lined up with another inexperienced wr, thrown to by a rook and some vets under duress.
Extrapolated over 16 games, his stats are 50 Catches, 663 Yards, 5 TDs. I think that would compare favorably with most mid-first-round WRs over the years.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Nice work. A little harsh on Coleman with D+.
Zombo
Perhaps a "little" harsh....but, keep in mind that "expected performance" would be a C.....and I think his was less than expected(or hoped for)....and, while his stats aren't terrible in terms of catches/yards,,,,,I considered a C-, but was swayed to go lower because of his excessive drops and extra low catch percentage, both of which are what you'd expect from a late round, udfa type player...not #15 in the first.....
He was the 1st receiver taken....look back and see what the others did and then the D+ seems just about right.....
Can i quibble?
absolutely...just hoping it's relevant to this years draft......fire away....
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Zombo said:
Nice work. A little harsh on Coleman with D+.
Zombo
Perhaps a "little" harsh....but, keep in mind that "expected performance" would be a C.....and I think his was less than expected(or hoped for)....and, while his stats aren't terrible in terms of catches/yards,,,,,I considered a C-, but was swayed to go lower because of his excessive drops and extra low catch percentage, both of which are what you'd expect from a late round, udfa type player...not #15 in the first.....
He was the 1st receiver taken....look back and see what the others did and then the D+ seems just about right.....
Can i quibble?
absolutely...just hoping it's relevant to this years draft......fire away....
Perhaps a "little" harsh....but, keep in mind that "expected performance" would be a C.....and I think his was less than expected(or hoped for)....and, while his stats aren't terrible in terms of catches/yards,,,,,I considered a C-, but was swayed to go lower because of his excessive drops and extra low catch percentage, both of which are what you'd expect from a late round, udfa type player...not #15 in the first.....
He was the 1st receiver taken....look back and see what the others did and then the D+ seems just about right.....
absolutely...just hoping it's relevant to this years draft......fire away....
So you are holding him to the standard of First We Taken, and not WRs drafted mid-round? His fault there wasn't a Sammy Watkins this year?
You give a guy a D for putting on pants. I'd think his production would get him out of the Ds
Henry Higgins has 6 catches none in the last month, and he got a boost.
Z
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Ok...you make a fair argument.....Ill agree to a C- .....
But...if you look back(and I did)....the receivers picked where he was(and later) all have better stats and year 1's than he does.....all of em....and WAY fewer drops and WAY higher catch percentages....
Odell Beckham(13), Brandon Cooks(20), DeAndre Hopkins(27), Michael Floyd(13), Kendall Wright(20), Demario Thomas(20), Dez Bryant(24)....
And the ones with less, have all been busts.....so, his #'s dont stand the test against mid to late 1st round picks either.....and no where close to higher picks and the guys who are now #1's and stars......ala Julio, AJ, Evans, Cooper, etc
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Here's another way to look at it.....Coleman has a 43% catch percentage.....which ranks him 376th in the league(out of 400)......so there's that......
And, if we are going to use the "it's the QB" excuse....lets looks at the other Browns who have had the same shitty QB rotation.....say the last 2 seasons, to get a good perspective.....
75% - Devalve
68% - Barnidge
62% - Hartline
59% - Gabriel
57% - Hawkins
55% - Higgins
55% - Benji
54% - Pryor
50% - Payton
47% - Louis
43% - Coleman
39% - Bowe......(so, the only one he beat was Bowe....and 1 more catch would put Bowe ahead)
It is what it is.....which is a very low # for the guy we hoped would be a #1.......
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Zombo said:
Nice work. A little harsh on Coleman with D+.
Zombo
Perhaps a "little" harsh....but, keep in mind that "expected performance" would be a C.....and I think his was less than expected(or hoped for)....and, while his stats aren't terrible in terms of catches/yards,,,,,I considered a C-, but was swayed to go lower because of his excessive drops and extra low catch percentage, both of which are what you'd expect from a late round, udfa type player...not #15 in the first.....
He was the 1st receiver taken....look back and see what the others did and then the D+ seems just about right.....
Can i quibble?
absolutely...just hoping it's relevant to this years draft......fire away....
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i love it when mud crunches stats.
anyways I'm with a C - for Coleman.
Let's hope he grows and has an awesome year next year.
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Skipping past the individual grades, you can't look past the fact that the FO was really stockpiling picks to get more players, in the knowledge that not all will work out. So, giving the final grade as the average is not exactly fair. For example the 2014 might grade out higher on that metric, but in reality from a draft two years ago we only have two players on the roster.
Also, you can, to some degree, include (for example) Erving in the 2014 draft (2015 version) because the pick was a direct result of a trade from 2014.
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Stick with your original grade on Coleman Mud-he did not come anywhere near to what the first WR in the draft should have done. I predict the dropsys will doom him in the long run or at least gain him the Roberto Duran WR award.
Here are Walterfootballs original draft grades. Coleman got a B+ but he hasn't come close to that for us (Elliot got a D-how wrong was that? LOLOLOLOL)
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