Jimmy says.....
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This is the first time I've EVER heard our owner and our management say we'll be aggressive in free agency. Can you remember the last time you heard that? That tells me it's go time. We even said that we're going to attempt to sign both Pryor and Collins and not use the tag on them. I don't even remember the last time we said something like THAT. Yes, there was a WHOLE lot of "DUH! NO SHIT, JIMMY!" in his statement, but I find it refreshing. We're NOT going to let talent walk out of here without trying our hardest. And I believe what I hear.
I've read some of our posters here say they are fine with letting Pryor walk. I think that's a bad move. Can you IMAGINE the backlash our management would take if Pryor goes to the Patriots, Panthers, or Cowboys and blows up? It would prolong the narrative of "the Browns let talent walk and can't keep their talent." Try and remember that no other team wanted Pryor, and they even tried him out. Hell, the freaking Patriots tried him out and didn't want him. So they AREN'T perfect. It completely shocks me that the Patriots didn't sign Pryor because they don't have a big physical wide receiver. They obviously have Gronk, but his injuries have to be a major concern. What does Pryor do on a team like the Pats? It boggles the mind. We developed Pryor. We saw the potential. We took the chance...and we can't let anybody else reap the reward of our hard work. I just read a report that the Browns are over $100 million dollars under the cap. You sign Pryor, and you do it immediately.
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This is the first time I've EVER heard our owner and our management say we'll be aggressive in free agency. Can you remember the last time you heard that? That tells me it's go time. We even said that we're going to attempt to sign both Pryor and Collins and not use the tag on them. I don't even remember the last time we said something like THAT. Yes, there was a WHOLE lot of "DUH! NO SHIT, JIMMY!" in his statement, but I find it refreshing. We're NOT going to let talent walk out of here without trying our hardest. And I believe what I hear.
I've read some of our posters here say they are fine with letting Pryor walk. I think that's a bad move. Can you IMAGINE the backlash our management would take if Pryor goes to the Patriots, Panthers, or Cowboys and blows up? It would prolong the narrative of "the Browns let talent walk and can't keep their talent." Try and remember that no other team wanted Pryor, and they even tried him out. Hell, the freaking Patriots tried him out and didn't want him. So they AREN'T perfect. It completely shocks me that the Patriots didn't sign Pryor because they don't have a big physical wide receiver. They obviously have Gronk, but his injuries have to be a major concern. What does Pryor do on a team like the Pats? It boggles the mind. We developed Pryor. We saw the potential. We took the chance...and we can't let anybody else reap the reward of our hard work. I just read a report that the Browns are over $100 million dollars under the cap. You sign Pryor, and you do it immediately.
This is the first time I've EVER heard our owner and our management say we'll be aggressive in free agency. Can you remember the last time you heard that? That tells me it's go time. We even said that we're going to attempt to sign both Pryor and Collins and not use the tag on them. I don't even remember the last time we said something like THAT. Yes, there was a WHOLE lot of "DUH! NO SHIT, JIMMY!" in his statement, but I find it refreshing. We're NOT going to let talent walk out of here without trying our hardest. And I believe what I hear.
I've read some of our posters here say they are fine with letting Pryor walk. I think that's a bad move. Can you IMAGINE the backlash our management would take if Pryor goes to the Patriots, Panthers, or Cowboys and blows up? It would prolong the narrative of "the Browns let talent walk and can't keep their talent." Try and remember that no other team wanted Pryor, and they even tried him out. Hell, the freaking Patriots tried him out and didn't want him. So they AREN'T perfect. It completely shocks me that the Patriots didn't sign Pryor because they don't have a big physical wide receiver. They obviously have Gronk, but his injuries have to be a major concern. What does Pryor do on a team like the Pats? It boggles the mind. We developed Pryor. We saw the potential. We took the chance...and we can't let anybody else reap the reward of our hard work. I just read a report that the Browns are over $100 million dollars under the cap. You sign Pryor, and you do it immediately.
Ah, they also have Bennett who is even bigger than Gronk. And he is one we should go after in FA.
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As time passes we all tend to forget that none of the FA's that left wanted to be a part of this shit show, can't put that on them.
Well, Mack is the only one where that was clearly the case......
But the real questions are, what did they do to replace those guys????....and....What did they do to change the perception for the next FA class???
You can put that on them....
But the real questions are,
- what did they do to replace those guys????....and....
- What did they do to change the perception for the next FA class???
- They sifted for gold, and
- nothing.
Since they are merely planning to be "appropriately aggressive" in the FA market again in 2017 (translation: not all that aggressive), they will be more aggressive in their retention offers.
Book it...
Man, so many people refusing to see the forest for the trees here. I won't go around in circles again, but the goal of this year was to hit rock bottom to build themselves back up.
We also have Pryor, Collins, Kirksey, Thomas, and Bitonio and Greco coming back from injury.
Rock bottom was not the goal... building a base was. Rock bottom came into the picture due to the injuries you list plus a few more, e.g., RG3.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What did they do to change the perception for the next FA class???
nothing.
I'd argue that trading for a guy like Collins, in the full knowledge that keeping him would cost a ton, is *something* to change the perception of FAs coming in for a visit. Cleveland is at least interested in acquiring talent and willing to spend, if not overpay.
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But the real questions are,
- what did they do to replace those guys????....and....
- What did they do to change the perception for the next FA class???
- They sifted for gold, and
- nothing.
Since they are merely planning to be "appropriately aggressive" in the FA market again in 2017 (translation: not all that aggressive), they will be more aggressive in their retention offers.
Book it...
Man, so many people refusing to see the forest for the trees here. I won't go around in circles again, but the goal of this year was to hit rock bottom to build themselves back up.
We also have Pryor, Collins, Kirksey, Thomas, and Bitonio and Greco coming back from injury.
Rock bottom was not the goal... building a base was. Rock bottom came into the picture due to the injuries you list plus a few more, e.g., RG3.
- They sifted for gold, and
- nothing.
Since they are merely planning to be "appropriately aggressive" in the FA market again in 2017 (translation: not all that aggressive), they will be more aggressive in their retention offers.
Book it...
Rock bottom was not the goal... building a base was. Rock bottom came into the picture due to the injuries you list plus a few more, e.g., RG3.
"Appropriate" Tour to me means- the anal-litycs guys are going to look at it from a cost\reward standpoint. We're not overpaying for where we have the guy rated.
We not only hit rock bottom- whether it was intentional or not, but when we got there, the Browns got out the heavy equipment and started digging for China.
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The season tickets should be a lot less with 1 game being in London and with the pure shit play we did this year, SHOW US SOME W's and then we can talk bout raising the ticket and popcorn prices
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In the 53 years I've followed this team, I've always had confidence that the Browns were trying to follow some sort of cohesive plan in team building. Even in the early 70s, when players were actively trying to get out of Cleveland, I thought the team had an idea and gameplan that they were trying to follow . . .
Until 1999.
In the past 18 seasons, I've seen nothing to convince me that anyone involved in the FO has any idea about what they're supposed to be doing. Al Lerner's crew was ridiculous, finishing last in the division 10 times in 14 years. Haslam is proving to be even worse, finish last on a declining curve - the franchise is in worse shape now than it was when he bought it.
Haslam needs to cash out and sell the team.
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But the real questions are,
- what did they do to replace those guys????....and....
- What did they do to change the perception for the next FA class???
- They sifted for gold, and
- nothing.
Since they are merely planning to be "appropriately aggressive" in the FA market again in 2017 (translation: not all that aggressive), they will be more aggressive in their retention offers.
Book it...
Man, so many people refusing to see the forest for the trees here. I won't go around in circles again, but the goal of this year was to hit rock bottom to build themselves back up.
We also have Pryor, Collins, Kirksey, Thomas, and Bitonio and Greco coming back from injury.
Rock bottom was not the goal... building a base was. Rock bottom came into the picture due to the injuries you list plus a few more, e.g., RG3.
Rock bottom was not the goal... building a base was. Rock bottom came into the picture due to the injuries you list plus a few more, e.g., RG3.
Perhaps-I'm not trying to get caught up in semantics here but again, the point was to rebuild and that doesn't happen in a true fashion without a really bad record.
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Rock bottom was not the goal... building a base was. Rock bottom came into the picture due to the injuries you list plus a few more, e.g., RG3.
Perhaps-I'm not trying to get caught up in semantics here but again, the point was to rebuild and that doesn't happen in a true fashion without a really bad record.
Perhaps-I'm not trying to get caught up in semantics here but again, the point was to rebuild and that doesn't happen in a true fashion without a really bad record.
Generally true- but teams manage to stay on top with astute drafting, good FA player acquisition, and good coaching. Patriots, Steelers. Their "down" years are usually around 8-8. Or do teams like the Falcons and Panthers following a good\great season "tank" to 6-10 to get a high pick?
You don't have to go 0-16 or 1-15 to rebuild- not if you're smart. The way the Browns dismantled the 2015 team is totally unprecedented in NFL history, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
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Perhaps-I'm not trying to get caught up in semantics here but again, the point was to rebuild and that doesn't happen in a true fashion without a really bad record.
Generally true- but teams manage to stay on top with astute drafting, good FA player acquisition, and good coaching. Patriots, Steelers. Their "down" years are usually around 8-8. Or do teams like the Falcons and Panthers following a good\great season "tank" to 6-10 to get a high pick?
You don't have to go 0-16 or 1-15 to rebuild- not if you're smart. The way the Browns dismantled the 2015 team is totally unprecedented in NFL history, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
Generally true- but teams manage to stay on top with astute drafting, good FA player acquisition, and good coaching. Patriots, Steelers. Their "down" years are usually around 8-8. Or do teams like the Falcons and Panthers following a good\great season "tank" to 6-10 to get a high pick?
You don't have to go 0-16 or 1-15 to rebuild- not if you're smart. The way the Browns dismantled the 2015 team is totally unprecedented in NFL history, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
Well I wrote a whole thing and closed out by mistake so I'm giving the the TLDR here...
However, the teams you're talking about all have elite franchise QB's. Take a look at the top 5 of the draft-notice a theme (remembering the Titans got their pick from the Rams)? I'm fine with every player they let go outside of Schwartz. Literally every other player we didn't sign or otherwise let go were below average veterans that MAYBE resulted in another win or two this season. I'm not sure how "unprecedented" it was to purge the level we did, but again who did we let go (seriously) in your opinion that was mistake? What guy (and we know Mack was out the door so don't give me that) was the dude that broke the camel's back. I can't say I'm missing Gipson and his pro-bowl season (not) or Benjamin/Gabriel when we objectively got a better season statistically from a dude who suffered through 5 QB's and played the position himself.
This organization needed the doors blown off, at least IMO, to finally get out of this perpetual 4-12, 5-11 crap we've suffered through seemingly every year. That's exactly what happened and we developed quite a few guys in the process. As I've said several times now, I get the apprehension, shit I feel the same way. But if this season was going to be a downer, I'm glad it was a total reboot as opposed to muddling in the below average. The night is darkest before dawn and all that jazz.
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What was the Colts record the year before they got Andrew Luck?
Realize there is a difference in that we actually demolish the team to the point that it couldn't win 2 games while the Colts were actively sandbagging.
We also may have miscalculated thinking that there would be a player at the top of the draft that would be worth drafting or worth Trading for many picks.
But before the plan was put in motion there was no way to tell that. At that time people were assuming Watson = Luck.
WSS
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What was the Colts record the year before they got Andrew Luck?
Realize there is a difference in that we actually demolish the team to the point that it couldn't win 2 games while the Colts were actively sandbagging.
We also may have miscalculated thinking that there would be a player at the top of the draft that would be worth drafting or worth Trading for many picks.
But before the plan was put in motion there was no way to tell that. At that time people were assuming Watson = Luck.
WSS
What was the Colts record the year before they got Andrew Luck?
Realize there is a difference in that we actually demolish the team to the point that it couldn't win 2 games while the Colts were actively sandbagging.
We also may have miscalculated thinking that there would be a player at the top of the draft that would be worth drafting or worth Trading for many picks.
But before the plan was put in motion there was no way to tell that. At that time people were assuming Watson = Luck.
WSS
Thank you Steve.....this Colts comparison drives me crazy....cause there is NO comparison.....
Here is their record leading up to and after the Luck pick.....
13 - 3
12 - 4
14 - 2
10 - 6
2 - 14
11 - 5
11 - 5
11 - 5
So...no....they didnt strip their team bare of players......they just won won won....then tanked....and went right back to winning.....
And if we MUST compare the Browns to the Colts....and say it's the same.....then I will be anticipating 3 immediate 11 win seasons,,,,,
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What was the Colts record the year before they got Andrew Luck?
Realize there is a difference in that we actually demolish the team to the point that it couldn't win 2 games while the Colts were actively sandbagging.
We also may have miscalculated thinking that there would be a player at the top of the draft that would be worth drafting or worth Trading for many picks.
But before the plan was put in motion there was no way to tell that. At that time people were assuming Watson = Luck.
WSS
Thank you Steve.....this Colts comparison drives me crazy....cause there is NO comparison.....
Here is their record leading up to and after the Luck pick.....
13 - 3
12 - 4
14 - 2
10 - 6
2 - 14
11 - 5
11 - 5
11 - 5
So...no....they didnt strip their team bare of players......they just won won won....then tanked....and went right back to winning.....
And if we MUST compare the Browns to the Colts....and say it's the same.....then I will be anticipating 3 immediate 11 win seasons,,,,,
Thank you Steve.....this Colts comparison drives me crazy....cause there is NO comparison.....
Here is their record leading up to and after the Luck pick.....
13 - 3
12 - 4
14 - 2
10 - 6
2 - 14
11 - 5
11 - 5
11 - 5
So...no....they didnt strip their team bare of players......they just won won won....then tanked....and went right back to winning.....
And if we MUST compare the Browns to the Colts....and say it's the same.....then I will be anticipating 3 immediate 11 win seasons,,,,,
Yeah- they were the beneficiaries of "Suck for Luck" or does Irsay have a deal with the devil to go from Manning straight to another franchise qb?
"Tank for Trubiski" doesn't have the same ring. Andy was a three year starter with incredible stats.
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What was the Colts record the year before they got Andrew Luck?
Realize there is a difference in that we actually demolish the team to the point that it couldn't win 2 games while the Colts were actively sandbagging.
We also may have miscalculated thinking that there would be a player at the top of the draft that would be worth drafting or worth Trading for many picks.
But before the plan was put in motion there was no way to tell that. At that time people were assuming Watson = Luck.
WSS
Thank you Steve.....this Colts comparison drives me crazy....cause there is NO comparison.....
Here is their record leading up to and after the Luck pick.....
13 - 3
12 - 4
14 - 2
10 - 6
2 - 14
11 - 5
11 - 5
11 - 5
So...no....they didnt strip their team bare of players......they just won won won....then tanked....and went right back to winning.....
And if we MUST compare the Browns to the Colts....and say it's the same.....then I will be anticipating 3 immediate 11 win seasons,,,,,
Thank you Steve.....this Colts comparison drives me crazy....cause there is NO comparison.....
So...no....they didnt strip their team bare of players......they just won won won....then tanked....and went right back to winning.....
Yup... no comparison... but they didn't have to "strip their team bare" did they?
Here's their 10-6, 2010 starting squads with number of starts in parentheses:
4th-ranked Offense: 25 turnovers
QB Peyton Manning (16) 4700 yards
RB Donald Brown (8) 497 yards - Joseph Addai (7) 495 yards
WR Pierre Garcon 784 yards - Reggie Wayne 1,355 yards, 6 td TE Dallas Clark (6) 347 yards
LT Charlie Johnson (15) LG Kyle DeVan (12) C Jeff Saturday (16) RG Mike Pollak (13) RT Ryan Diem (16)
23rd-ranked Defense: 21 takeaways
DE Dwight Freeney DE Robert Mathis LDT Fili Moala RDT Daniel Muir
MLB Gary Brackett LB Pat Angerer LB Kavell Conner
LCB Kelvin Hayden RCB Jerraud Powers SS Aaron Francisco FS Antoine Bethea
And their 2-14, 2011 starters:
28th-ranked Offense: 29 turnovers
QB Curtis Painter (8) 1,541 yards - Dan Orlovsky (5) 1201 yards - Kerry Collins (3) 481 yards
RB Joseph Addai (11) 433 yards - Donald Brown (2) 645 yards
WR Pierre Garcon (16) 947 yards - Reggie Wayne (16) 960 yards TE Dallas Clark (10) 352 yards
LT Anthony Castonzo (12) LG Joe Reitz (9) C Jeff Saturday (16) RG Ryan Diem (11) RT Jeff Linkenbach (16)
28th-ranked Defense: 17 takeaways
DE Dwight Freeney* DE Robert Mathis LDT Fili Moala RDT Antonio Johnson
MLB Pat Angerer LB Kavell Conner LB Philip Wheeler
LCB Jacob Lacey RCB Jerraud Powers SS David Caldwell FS Antoine Bethea
Bottom line:
They were a team that had to outscore their opponent and they suddenly lost their "scoring machine". That wasn't "tanking" per se.
What they did do was hold out their medically cleared QB for the final three games (IIRC) in an attempt to seal the Luck deal... and even then they nearly blew it when Orlovsky woke up and won two of their last three.
Now... did we strip out team bare? I say no, we did not.
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