Chad Kelly Vrs Mitch Trubisky
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I wouldn't sign chad kelly as a UDFA. Simple as that.
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I don't know. Worked out for Joe Namath.
Yeah...and how did Johnny cokehead work out for us? Ryan Leaf was more interested in partying than being a QB. Many many many examples. I'll take the guy who's boring as fuck and wants to do nothing but play QB in the NFL over this asshat.
Yeah...and how did Johnny cokehead work out for us? Ryan Leaf was more interested in partying than being a QB. Many many many examples. I'll take the guy who's boring as fuck and wants to do nothing but play QB in the NFL over this asshat.
So you don't know of any possible QBs we could select after round 1 in this draft?
I've repeated a few times in this thread "it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly" while adding "if this is the case I'd like to hear your ideas of other QBs that may have a comparable skill set to Trubisky after round 1." Thought it might lead to a fun discussion about some potentially better bargains while we could address some immediate defensive impact in round. The goal of this thread wasn't to re-live/remember Johnny Manziel. It was to get us remembering what round the Raiders took Derek Carr or the Seahawks took Russell Wilson or the Dallas Cowboys took Dal Prescott. Seems to me the teams that didn't reach in those drafts got rewarded best. Why can't that be the case in 2017?
In this entire thread of countless guys hating the Chad Kelly idea, do we really only have 1 or 2 guys that would like us to consider another QB after round 1? So far, Couch gave me his Homey Mahomes and his next best QB Kaaya from the U; while his favorite unknown is Antonio Pipkin from Tiffin. Gumby mentioned sticking with Kessler and looking to 2018 QB prospects like Garnold, Rosen, Jackson and Allen.
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Yeah...and how did Johnny cokehead work out for us? Ryan Leaf was more interested in partying than being a QB. Many many many examples. I'll take the guy who's boring as fuck and wants to do nothing but play QB in the NFL over this asshat.
So you don't know of any possible QBs we could select after round 1 in this draft?
I've repeated a few times in this thread "it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly" while adding "if this is the case I'd like to hear your ideas of other QBs that may have a comparable skill set to Trubisky after round 1." Thought it might lead to a fun discussion about some potentially better bargains while we could address some immediate defensive impact in round. The goal of this thread wasn't to re-live/remember Johnny Manziel. It was to get us remembering what round the Raiders took Derek Carr or the Seahawks took Russell Wilson or the Dallas Cowboys took Dal Prescott. Seems to me the teams that didn't reach in those drafts got rewarded best. Why can't that be the case in 2017?
In this entire thread of countless guys hating the Chad Kelly idea, do we really only have 1 or 2 guys that would like us to consider another QB after round 1? So far, Couch gave me his Homey Mahomes and his next best QB Kaaya from the U; while his favorite unknown is Antonio Pipkin from Tiffin. Gumby mentioned sticking with Kessler and looking to 2018 QB prospects like Garnold, Rosen, Jackson and Allen.
So you don't know of any possible QBs we could select after round 1 in this draft?
I've repeated a few times in this thread "it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly" while adding "if this is the case I'd like to hear your ideas of other QBs that may have a comparable skill set to Trubisky after round 1." Thought it might lead to a fun discussion about some potentially better bargains while we could address some immediate defensive impact in round. The goal of this thread wasn't to re-live/remember Johnny Manziel. It was to get us remembering what round the Raiders took Derek Carr or the Seahawks took Russell Wilson or the Dallas Cowboys took Dal Prescott. Seems to me the teams that didn't reach in those drafts got rewarded best. Why can't that be the case in 2017?
In this entire thread of countless guys hating the Chad Kelly idea, do we really only have about 2 guys that would like us to consider another QB after round 1? So far, Couch gave me his Homey Mahomes and his next best QB Kaaya from the U; while his favorite unknown is Antonio Pipkin from Tiffin. Someone else mentioned guys for 2018 like Josh Allen or Sam Garnold.
No clue about other QB's but I've read enough about this guy to make me scared of the red flags associated with him. So I wouldn't touch him with a 100 foot pole. I'm afraid of any QB making videos about himself....thats my only opinion on him. I've never seen him play but his attitude to me is a red flag.
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underclassman have till midnight tonight to declare to NFL. Baker Mayfield & Luke Falk our the 2 QB's to watch. Josh Allen is not coming out..I favor the 2018 QB draft (which is stacking up nicely) once Kiser comes off the board or FA. Teams get official list "who's in" in hands 1-20
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
So you don't know of any possible QBs we could select after round 1 in this draft?
I've repeated a few times in this thread "it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly" while adding "if this is the case I'd like to hear your ideas of other QBs that may have a comparable skill set to Trubisky after round 1." Thought it might lead to a fun discussion about some potentially better bargains while we could address some immediate defensive impact in round. The goal of this thread wasn't to re-live/remember Johnny Manziel. It was to get us remembering what round the Raiders took Derek Carr or the Seahawks took Russell Wilson or the Dallas Cowboys took Dal Prescott. Seems to me the teams that didn't reach in those drafts got rewarded best. Why can't that be the case in 2017?
In this entire thread of countless guys hating the Chad Kelly idea, do we really only have about 2 guys that would like us to consider another QB after round 1? So far, Couch gave me his Homey Mahomes and his next best QB Kaaya from the U; while his favorite unknown is Antonio Pipkin from Tiffin. Someone else mentioned guys for 2018 like Josh Allen or Sam Garnold.
No clue about other QB's but I've read enough about this guy to make me scared of the red flags associated with him. So I wouldn't touch him with a 100 foot pole. I'm afraid of any QB making videos about himself....thats my only opinion on him. I've never seen him play but his attitude to me is a red flag.
No clue about other QB's but I've read enough about this guy to make me scared of the red flags associated with him. So I wouldn't touch him with a 100 foot pole. I'm afraid of any QB making videos about himself....thats my only opinion on him.
I understand he scares you as much as he scares others. As the guy who started this thread for the purpose of discussing alternatives to taking Trubisky in round 1 with another QB later, I wasn't asking for your opinion of Kelly. Kelly was my alternative and I wanted to hear what alternatives others had.
Again, I've repeated a few times in this thread "it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly" while adding "if this is the case I'd like to hear your ideas of other QBs that may have a comparable skill set to Trubisky after round 1." Thought it might lead to a fun discussion about some potentially better bargains while we could address some immediate defensive impact in round. The goal of this thread wasn't to re-live/remember Johnny Manziel. It was to get us remembering what round the Raiders took Derek Carr or the Seahawks took Russell Wilson or the Dallas Cowboys took Dal Prescott. Seems to me the teams that didn't reach in those drafts got rewarded best. Why can't that be the case in 2017?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
No clue about other QB's but I've read enough about this guy to make me scared of the red flags associated with him. So I wouldn't touch him with a 100 foot pole. I'm afraid of any QB making videos about himself....thats my only opinion on him.
I understand he scares you as much as he scares others. As the guy who started this thread for the purpose of discussing alternatives to taking Trubisky in round 1 with another QB later, I wasn't asking for your opinion of Kelly. Kelly was my alternative and I wanted to hear what alternatives others had.
Again, I've repeated a few times in this thread "it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly" while adding "if this is the case I'd like to hear your ideas of other QBs that may have a comparable skill set to Trubisky after round 1." Thought it might lead to a fun discussion about some potentially better bargains while we could address some immediate defensive impact in round. The goal of this thread wasn't to re-live/remember Johnny Manziel. It was to get us remembering what round the Raiders took Derek Carr or the Seahawks took Russell Wilson or the Dallas Cowboys took Dal Prescott. Seems to me the teams that didn't reach in those drafts got rewarded best. Why can't that be the case in 2017?
As the guy who started this thread for the purpose of discussing alternatives to Trubisky in round 1, I wasn't asking for your opinion of Kelly. He was my alternative and I wanted to hear what alternatives others had.
Then I'll stay out of it since I have no idea on anyone else.
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underclassman have till midnight tonight to declare to NFL. Baker Mayfield & Luke Falk our the 2 QB's to watch. Josh Allen is not coming out..I favor the 2018 QB draft (which is stacking up nicely) once Kiser comes off the board or FA. Teams get official list "who's in" in hands 1-20
underclassman have till midnight tonight to declare to NFL. Baker Mayfield & Luke Falk our the 2 QB's to watch. Josh Allen is not coming out..I favor the 2018 QB draft (which is stacking up nicely) once Kiser comes off the board. Teams get official list "who's in" in hands 1-20
Interesting Gumby! I wonder what round Mayfield would go in if he came out. He's really exciting but I'm not sure how a lot of the experts will see him projecting at the NFL level.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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I'm hoping like Hell we go Defense with our first 2 picks. I've seen Trubisky play twice in his small body of work starting. I already posted I see why some guys really like him and pointed out the specifics I really liked such strong, accurate and consistently escapes trouble behind a suspect pass pro. Unfortunately, I see a lot of parallels to Tim Couch in the moral victories dept excusing both losses to drops and if he just had the right team around him. So what happened to Couch? He came here while McNabb went to the NFL team coming off the worst record. Couch received the same excuses here that he got at Kentucky vrs SEC Competition while McNabb turned an unforgiving hatred in the City of Brotherly Love over not drafting Ricky Williams into nothing but playoffs from about 2000-2010 inclusive of 5 NFC Championship Games and 1 exciting SB matchup with NE.
In 2002, we DID make the playoffs with a 9-7 record once our a bye week re-eval decided to take the offense off Couch's shoulders and onto the running game. Over the last 5-6 games of that season, William Green averaged over a 100 yards rushing per game while a considerable portion of our fan base began to favor Kelly Holcomb if memory serves me right here. The day we clinched a playoff spot beating a playoff bound Atlanta team - Couch left the game early with us behind. Holcomb came in and William Green ran for 164 yards to help us overcome the deficit. While I felt bad for Couch at times, he was a #1 overall pick which meant he was supposed to drive the franchise to greatness as opposed to being one of the passengers. I think our FO put the cleaning staff in charge of researching McNabb while Andy Reid remembered Favre played in a So Miss offense very similar to the Veer Option McNabb played in at SU. The difference between McNabb and Couch is one guy never ended up needing excuses while the other quickly made everyone around him instantly better. Again, Philly came off the worst record in the NFL so let's not pretend only 1 guy had challenges to overcome. This comes from the same guy who's very first post in cyberspace said "Couch just Makes Sense." I thought there was no other answer until hindsight 20/20 showed me otherwise. While Couch didn't suck - he never was the solution Philly found at #2 overall in 1999.
So? Sometimes you have to look at a QB prospect that transcended a major college program/tradition to elite like say a Bernie Kosar or an Andrew Luck or even a Joe Montana; or see why/how an Aaron Rodgers beats a much more talented USC team than his. Once upon a time, I saw Elway erase a 28 point halftime lead Ohio State had on an inferior Stanford team in a game that should have never ended in a tie. They did the same stuff at the next level. Even Poor Andrew Luck who has taken a suspect pass pro to a Conference Championship game already. I guess we can throw Peyton Manning in there since his excellence attracted enough recruits for UT to win the National Championship the first season after he went to the NFL. Keep in mind, Montana got stereotyped for arm strength, less than wonderful passing stats and style of offense so he fell to something like round 3 or 4 (paving the way for much lesser QBs to follow at ND to get drafted higher in the future - even one often hailed as "the most pro ready" of his draft class). As for SU, they stopped competing for 1st place in the Big East after McNabb left. Today, that football program is looking for a pulse in the ACC.
What happens when there doesn't appear to be an obvious franchise QB at #1 overall or one a QB that transcended a major college football program to excellence?
1) You can pretend there is one and reach...
2) You can get bullied into drafting a QB in round 1 even if a 1st round talent does not exist because that's what we're still being told we need to do. We've rinsed and repeated this one so often - it's hard to trust it again.
3) You can do enough film review and research to feel you SEE the right QB.
4) You can draft to make this an easier place to play QB for whatever QBs you already have + whatever QBs you draft later (ie; is there an easier place for a young guy to play QB than Dallas today?)
I just thought I'd share a look at the stats of the last FULL seasons Mitch Trubisky and Chad Kelly started. In doing so, one has to understand Chad Kelly injured his ACL in 2016, which means he'll miss a lot of the pre-draft workouts without defenses hurrying throws against WRs not being defended by NFL corners with a bad pass pro hurrying throws even more so. Film can show show you a lot of that stuff better. Unfortunately, it can't replicate the level of complexity NFL defenses can confuse a rookie QB with during his new role of reading progressions in a faster league while he may not have very good pass pro or much help around him. Here's their stats in the final full.
Chad Kelly (2015)
298 of 458 for 4042 yds 65.1 cmp% 8.8 ypc 31 TD 13 INT 500 yds rushing 4.7 ypc 10 TD rushing
* Last SEC QB to beat Alabama (the last time Alabama won a National Championship). Like Cam Newton, he had to grow up after getting thrown out of his first college program at 18 years of age. Even though he led his team to over 30 points again in 2016 vrs Bama, they forced him into some bad decisions.
Mitch Trubisky (2016)
304 of 447 for 3748 yds 68.0 cmp% 8.4 ypc 30 TD 6 INT 308 yds rushing 3.3 ypc 5 TD rushing
* Fun kid to watch with hometown roots as close by as Mentor. Strong, accurate and eludes pressure consistently. Has to overcome locking onto his primary target as depicted in the pick 6 against Stanford
While I won't hate it if we draft Trubisky, I'm just not sold he's any better than Chad Kelly especially knowing Kelly will probably fall to a much later slot than Trubisky. That being the case, we can sure draft a lot of impact in that upper first round and even at the top of round 2 before we address the QB spot. We can draft 2 impactful studs on defense in round 1 and add Elfein at Center at the top of round 2 before we'd even have to draft Kelly. Looking at my multiple choice above - I choose #4. Wouldn't it be fun to defer a coin toss and actually stop an opponent from scoring 2 minutes into the game for whoever we start at QB for once?
Flugs, I don't think you can look strictly at stats and point that out as the be all and end all of QB comparisons. If that were the case then we could say that we should take any QB from the Big 12, all of whom probably have better stats than Trubisky or Kelly, since they don't play defense in that conference.
That being said, I would not be against taking a flyer on Kelly at some point.
I have seen where Kelly may last until round 6. I say take MT at #1 AND take Kelly down there. Can't hurt.
Flugs, I don't think you can look strictly at stats and point that out as the be all and end all of QB comparisons. If that were the case then we could say that we should take any QB from the Big 12, all of whom probably have better stats than Trubisky or Kelly, since they don't play defense in that conference.
That being said, I would not be against taking a flyer on Kelly at some point.
I have seen where Kelly may last until round 6. I say take MT at #1 AND take Kelly down there. Can't hurt.
Good point about the Big 12 Gipper!
Before I looked at the stats, I saw the only QB that beat Alabama's National Champion team in 2015. They did it throwing the ball and they scored 43 points doing so. Then I became intrigued enough for the stats and additional highlights. I think I value a QB leading his team to victory over a much more talented team more than stats (ie; Kosar over Nebraska, Joe Montana over Texas, Aaron Rodgers over USC). Why would I do that? If you're going to get sentenced to Cleveland - you're going to be playing better teams almost every week so it's comforting to know if you have landed a guy with a history of beating more talented teams. IMO, this type of pedigree is less apt to be intimidated or in aw of people.
I've only seen 2 of Trubisky's starts and both were losses. Do you have a signature win from Trubisky that I should look into? I don't know a lot about him other than what 2 games in his small body of work showed me. There's definitely some things I like that I mentioned previously. Then again, there's the Peyton Manning reasoning for why he felt it was important to go back and play his senior year in terms of him saying he needed all the experience he could get in college before starting in the NFL. And he came from more of a passing offense than Trubisky did.
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underclassman have till midnight tonight to declare to NFL. Baker Mayfield & Luke Falk our the 2 QB's to watch. Josh Allen is not coming out..I favor the 2018 QB draft (which is stacking up nicely) once Kiser comes off the board. Teams get official list "who's in" in hands 1-20
Interesting Gumby! I wonder what round Mayfield would go in if he came out. He's really exciting but I'm not sure how a lot of the experts will see him projecting at the NFL level.
I wonder what round Mayfield would go in if he came out. He's really exciting but I'm not sure how a lot of the experts will see him projecting at the NFL level.
Mayfield lead everyone in QBR but if most think Trib had numbers check out Luke Falk--447 complete out of 644 attempts.4561 yards.70% completion rate. 38 TD's. but he's a long way from Marion Ohio
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I don't know. Worked out for Joe Namath.
Yeah...and how did Johnny cokehead work out for us? Ryan Leaf was more interested in partying than being a QB. Many many many examples. I'll take the guy who's boring as fuck and wants to do nothing but play QB in the NFL over this asshat.
Yeah...and how did Johnny cokehead work out for us? Ryan Leaf was more interested in partying than being a QB. Many many many examples. I'll take the guy who's boring as fuck and wants to do nothing but play QB in the NFL over this asshat.
Yeah, maybe, but there are still plenty of those guys that suck.
WSS
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If you guys want to show me a list of late round QBs with off the field problems related to drugs and fighting and general douchbaggery who became franchise QBs in the last 25 years, I'll wait.
Tom Brady had a well known bath salts problem.
Tom Brady had a well known bath salts problem.
He's also been known to squirt Reddi-Wip directly from the can into his mouth while Giselle wasn't looking.
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No clue about other QB's but I've read enough about this guy to make me scared of the red flags associated with him. So I wouldn't touch him with a 100 foot pole. I'm afraid of any QB making videos about himself....thats my only opinion on him.
I understand he scares you as much as he scares others. As the guy who started this thread for the purpose of discussing alternatives to taking Trubisky in round 1 with another QB later, I wasn't asking for your opinion of Kelly. Kelly was my alternative and I wanted to hear what alternatives others had.
Again, I've repeated a few times in this thread "it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly" while adding "if this is the case I'd like to hear your ideas of other QBs that may have a comparable skill set to Trubisky after round 1." Thought it might lead to a fun discussion about some potentially better bargains while we could address some immediate defensive impact in round. The goal of this thread wasn't to re-live/remember Johnny Manziel. It was to get us remembering what round the Raiders took Derek Carr or the Seahawks took Russell Wilson or the Dallas Cowboys took Dal Prescott. Seems to me the teams that didn't reach in those drafts got rewarded best. Why can't that be the case in 2017?
I understand he scares you as much as he scares others. As the guy who started this thread for the purpose of discussing alternatives to taking Trubisky in round 1 with another QB later, I wasn't asking for your opinion of Kelly. Kelly was my alternative and I wanted to hear what alternatives others had.
Again, I've repeated a few times in this thread "it's okay if you don't like Chad Kelly" while adding "if this is the case I'd like to hear your ideas of other QBs that may have a comparable skill set to Trubisky after round 1." Thought it might lead to a fun discussion about some potentially better bargains while we could address some immediate defensive impact in round. The goal of this thread wasn't to re-live/remember Johnny Manziel. It was to get us remembering what round the Raiders took Derek Carr or the Seahawks took Russell Wilson or the Dallas Cowboys took Dal Prescott. Seems to me the teams that didn't reach in those drafts got rewarded best. Why can't that be the case in 2017?
If I had to rank scenarios (that are within the realm of plausibility) that I'd like to see, I'd go:
1) Take Kizer at #33 after taking BPA for the first two picks. This would give us two likely instant improvements and a QB project at #33 that, IMO, falls more closely under the "Derek Carr" umbrella than Mahomes does, despite Mahomes getting the Carr comparison often. Personally, I see more NFL-level plays from Kizer than I do Mahomes, but I do like Mahomes' potential in the later rounds.
2) Take any of the other two big name guys at #12 if they are available. We'd still be able to get Garrett or someone else at #1.
3) Take Trubisky at #1.
4) Take BPA for the first three/four picks and then take Mahomes in the third.
Regardless of anything, I'd really like us to take a flier on Pipkin in the 6th or so. I'd like to see a 4-man QB stable at TC with RG3, Kessler, rookie QB, Pipkin. Unfortunately, that means saying goodbye to McCown - but I think its necessary.
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Don't care. So did the 1985 Chicago Bears. No red flag there now, was there?
I think you need to get away from the rap song and read about the kid.
And then look at the QBS that are successful in the NFL and compare.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I think you need to get away from the rap song and read about the kid.
And then look at the QBS that are successful in the NFL and compare.
Zombo
I am not saying we should draft him. I am just saying that it wouldn't bother me if they took a late round flyer on him. Certainly nothing in rounds 1-5. And if we take another QB earlier, taking him certainly could be superfluous.
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underclassman have till midnight tonight to declare to NFL. Baker Mayfield & Luke Falk our the 2 QB's to watch. Josh Allen is not coming out..I favor the 2018 QB draft (which is stacking up nicely) once Kiser comes off the board or FA. Teams get official list "who's in" in hands 1-20
underclassman have till midnight tonight to declare to NFL. Baker Mayfield & Luke Falk our the 2 QB's to watch. Josh Allen is not coming out..I favor the 2018 QB draft (which is stacking up nicely) once Kiser comes off the board or FA. Teams get official list "who's in" in hands 1-20
Again, I ask, who is going to be out there next year?
Likely the best guys in the 2018 draft are guys that are not on the radar yet. Like Goff and Wentz last year. Trubisky this year. Etc.
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underclassman have till midnight tonight to declare to NFL. Baker Mayfield & Luke Falk our the 2 QB's to watch. Josh Allen is not coming out..I favor the 2018 QB draft (which is stacking up nicely) once Kiser comes off the board or FA. Teams get official list "who's in" in hands 1-20
Again, I ask, who is going to be out there next year?
Likely the best guys in the 2018 draft are guys that are not on the radar yet. Like Goff and Wentz last year. Trubisky this year. Etc.
Again, I ask, who is going to be out there next year?
Likely the best guys in the 2018 draft are guys that are not on the radar yet. Like Goff and Wentz last year. Trubisky this year. Etc.
Off the top of my head, Josh Rosen out of UCLA, Sam Darnold of USC, Jake Browning out of Washington, Mason Rudolph from the real OSU, and to a lesser extent Lamar Jackson out of Louisville.
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I disagree completely with the notion that either Goff or Wentz are/were "The Best" last year.
Goff - looks like an epic bust for Rams, right up there with JaMarcus Russell / Ryan Leaf. More of a bust than the JFF pick..
Wentz, per PFF, was the worst QB in the league after week 7.
If that's your comparison, you don't want Trubisky in that sentence..
Also, time to congratulate [and change opinions on] the FO: They were CORRECT to trade out of the 2 last year..
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Again, I ask, who is going to be out there next year?
Likely the best guys in the 2018 draft are guys that are not on the radar yet. Like Goff and Wentz last year. Trubisky this year. Etc.
Off the top of my head, Josh Rosen out of UCLA, Sam Darnold of USC, Jake Browning out of Washington, Mason Rudolph from the real OSU, and to a lesser extent Lamar Jackson out of Louisville.
Off the top of my head, Josh Rosen out of UCLA, Sam Darnold of USC, Jake Browning out of Washington, Mason Rudolph from the real OSU, and to a lesser extent Lamar Jackson out of Louisville.
OK, thanks.
Josh Rosen has been highly touted ever since he was a freshman.
Browning has been give a lot of cred taking Washington where they went.
How much did Darnold contribute to that late season run by USC?
Mason Rudolph may be a phantom. Big 12 QBs....usually vastly overrated.
Jackson, fabulous college player. Not many consider him a pro prospect, fair to say?
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I disagree completely with the notion that either Goff or Wentz are/were "The Best" last year.
Goff - looks like an epic bust for Rams, right up there with JaMarcus Russell / Ryan Leaf. More of a bust than the JFF pick..
Wentz, per PFF, was the worst QB in the league after week 7.
If that's your comparison, you don't want Trubisky in that sentence..
Also, time to congratulate [and change opinions on] the FO: They were CORRECT to trade out of the 2 last year..
I disagree completely with the notion that either Goff or Wentz are/were "The Best" last year.
Goff - looks like an epic bust for Rams, right up there with JaMarcus Russell / Ryan Leaf. More of a bust than the JFF pick..
Wentz, per PFF, was the worst QB in the league after week 7.
If that's your comparison, you don't want Trubisky in that sentence..
Also, time to congratulate [and change opinions on] the FO: They were CORRECT to trade out of the 2 last year..
He is only in the sentence to the extent that prior to the college season, he was not on the radar really as being considered the best QB in the draft.
Obviously Goff and Wentz became considered the best QBs in last year's draft. (we are not considering how they actually played) going 1, 2.
But they were not really considered that in January of their senior year.
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No Big 12 QB has ever won a playoff game, or so I've heard. Others can check.
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