The Las Vegas Raiders
-
Where am I missing it? We did get another team. Our team moved to Baltimore but I agree that once they moved they were no longer our team they were Baltimore's. And we got another team (fortunately) to replace them and (fortunately) able to keep the Browns name.
What are you missing? Everything apparently...like the facts.
Our team did not move to Baltimore. Art Modell moved to Baltimore....was given a new NFL franchise. OUR NFL franchise stayed right here.
Not sure how you could have missed that fact.
Its like a house. You...the owner may move from that house, and you may take some of your furnishings with you....but the house was not moved just because you moved.
Oakland may not get another team but who knows? At least for all the loyalty the NFL shows to fans they could do that much and leave the team name and colors for the fans behind when teams move to other cities.
Well, that is a tough negotiation. Only Cleveland among NFL teams has been able to keep its franchise intact.
I see your point Gip and you are right but it still seems like word semantics. In 99 weren't we really no more or less than any other expansion team (except the NFL didn't give us as good of deal as they did Carolina and Jacksonville)?. You are right due to grass roots fans in Cleveland who did work out a great negotiation they kept the franchise here. But in reality we had an established NFL team that moved and were replaced with an expansion team. It is hard for me not to see the Browns from 99 on as anything but the new Browns.
I see your point Gip and you are right but it still seems like word semantics. In 99 weren't we really no more or less than any other expansion team (except the NFL didn't give us as good of deal as they did Carolina and Jacksonville)?. You are right due to grass roots fans in Cleveland who did work out a great negotiation they kept the franchise here. But in reality we had an established NFL team that moved and were replaced with an expansion team. It is hard for me not to see the Browns from 99 on as anything but the new Browns.
It is the same franchise. It went through an expansion process to simply replenish the roster. Every team goes through roster changes. The 49ers won the Super Bowl the year before, but for much of the last decade they have sucked as bad or worse than the Browns. They actually even moved away to a different city 45 miles from where they were.
So their situation is no different really than the Browns. The problem with the Browns has been bad ownership/management.
Assume for a moment that in lieu of "moving" the Browns stayed here....with Al Lerner buying the team. You still would have had Al, then Randy owning the team, and I don't know if anything would have been different. Randy was capable of making the same bad decisions whether his Dad had gotten the team through purchase from Modell, or the way it was done.
-
Browns players all moved to Baltimore along with coaching staff, equipment etc. We had a vacant stadium and after huge pressure the NFL gave us 'an expansion' team. They named it the Browns.
Browns players all moved to Baltimore along with coaching staff, equipment etc. We had a vacant stadium and after huge pressure the NFL gave us 'an expansion' team. They named it the Browns.
No. See above. The franchise was always the Browns. They just used an expansion like process to replenish the roster.
All they did, as I said, was sell the franchise to a new owner. Not much different than when Randy sold it to Haslam.
Players and coaches are fungible.
My example of the house sale is a pretty good analogy.
You move from your house, you don't move the house. You move some furniture, you don't move the house. Maybe the house is vacant for a while while you find a new buyer and they take some time to move in. It is still the same house. The foundation, the walls, the roof are all still in place.
The new buyers brought in some new furniture and appliances (players, coaches, equipment).
That is all that happened.
-
@ghoolie said:
Oakland? Look who's talking. What, don't you like Baltimore?
Listen, Dickfuck, I don't know where you are going with this Baltimore thing, and frankly, I don't give a shit.
Here are the Professional sports teams I root for: The Cleveland Browns, the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Cleveland Indians.
Do you notice some sort of trend there?
I root for Cleveland, Ohio.
Baltimore can blow me. Oakland can lick my balls. And Vegas can eat my ass.
The Vegas Raiders are not the Oakland Raiders.
No, they're not. They are a much gayer version. Oakland is a tough city, Vegas has no soul. It's a place for soulless fucks to run to when they can't hang anymore. You should buy a condo there.
Best Climate in the USA..
Really? So you've never been to Hawaii? San Diego? Key West? Frying your fat ass in the desert in 115 temps is what works for you? Good ... that's your choice. Embrace it. Make it your own. Live in Vegas. Root for Vegas. I'm gonna live on the Beach and root for Cleveland. And sleep like a baby because I never gave up.
Florida? LMAO. Zomblow dates a lot of hot women in Naples. He takes them home and pulls on their tits until the wrinkles come out.
I get more pussy at 52 than you got at 25. Naples is stocked with MILFs 35-50, divorced. Hubby stayed up North, they live down here on his alimony, and I'm banging all of them.
Maybe if you lose 100 pounds you wouldn't have to pay for a handjob in Vegas like you do now, some rancid barfly in memphis might actually touch your dick.
Zombo
-
Browns players all moved to Baltimore along with coaching staff, equipment etc. We had a vacant stadium and after huge pressure the NFL gave us 'an expansion' team. They named it the Browns.
No. See above. The franchise was always the Browns. They just used an expansion like process to replenish the roster.
All they did, as I said, was sell the franchise to a new owner. Not much different than when Randy sold it to Haslam.
Players and coaches are fungible.
My example of the house sale is a pretty good analogy.
You move from your house, you don't move the house. You move some furniture, you don't move the house. Maybe the house is vacant for a while while you find a new buyer and they take some time to move in. It is still the same house. The foundation, the walls, the roof are all still in place.
The new buyers brought in some new furniture and appliances (players, coaches, equipment).
That is all that happened.
No. See above. The franchise was always the Browns. They just used an expansion like process to replenish the roster.
All they did, as I said, was sell the franchise to a new owner. Not much different than when Randy sold it to Haslam.
Players and coaches are fungible.
My example of the house sale is a pretty good analogy.
You move from your house, you don't move the house. You move some furniture, you don't move the house. Maybe the house is vacant for a while while you find a new buyer and they take some time to move in. It is still the same house. The foundation, the walls, the roof are all still in place.
The new buyers brought in some new furniture and appliances (players, coaches, equipment).
That is all that happened.
But what if Modell had taken the name and colors, which he very well could have, then I don't think you could apply your analogy.
You would have still had the franchise (house) in place, but the colors and name would be different. So with that couldnt you say regardless of whether the new team in Cleveland is named the Browns or the Bishops, the real Browns moved to Baltimore?
Ive heard browns fans say they wished Modell had taken the name and colors. The regimes that have been in control since 99 have dragged the name and colors through poop, turning this franchise into the greatest laughingstock in the modern era. Although Modell decided to give up the name and colors, fans have said in hindsight that the powers that be should have left the great tradition of the Cleveland Browns die and rest in peace and let the shitshow since 99 be attached to another name and colors... not the Cleveland Browns.
-
@ghoolie said:
Gipper, don't be a jack off, You can't win this fucking idiotic argument.
I have already won....because this is NOT an argument. This is NOT a matter of opinion which can be arguable. These are hard cold facts that are inarguable.
If the team didn't move, why the fuck did they not play in Cleveland in 1996?
Because they took a hiatus. They weren't the first team to do so. Both the Rams and Steelers did the same in their histories.
A football team is made up of players. All the Browns players moved to Baltimore.
Players are NOT a team. Players are fungible commodities. They come and go like grain in a silo.
Wanna bet how many of the current Raider players actually still play for the Raiders when they finally move to Vegas in 2020? I will wager that you may be able to count at most 10 or fewer.
Can you name for us the Browns roster in 1996? If there were no players in 1996, where were they? Please, tell us who the 1996, 97, and 98 Browns team consisted of.
They were on hiatus. The Browns in those years simply didn't play.
I mean....they hardly play now....so why is taking a few years off in the 90s matter. They may as wel have taken off the last 3-4 years. Fair to say?
-
Ghoolie got this right, taxes plus a pile of cash caused the BROWNS players, ALL OF THEM to move and play in Baltimore. ......
business reporter, Miriam Hill, examined motivations for the move:
Estate planning as motivation?
Decision to move team may be driven by Modell's age: 70
Art Modell's decision to move the Browns to Baltimore may be due, in part, to his need to ensure his heirs have the financial ability to keep the team after he dies.
At age 70, Modell undoubtedly has been thinking about the condition of his estate when he dies. In fact, local lawyers and financial planners say Modell's need may have been one factor in dictating the move.
"Art's world has greatly changed, and now somebody's dangling a lot of money and saying, `Here's a way to solve your problems,' said William Karnatz, an estate planning lawyer with Nicola Gudbranson & Cooper.
Modell's spokesman, David Hopcraft, could not be reached yesterday, but here is Modell's problem:
If he wanted to keep the team in the family, his heirs - probably his wife and two stepsons - would have to pay a tax of up to 55 percent of the value of the estate. With the value of the Browns franchise probably in the neighborhood of $200 million, that would put the estate taxes in the neighborhood of $100 million.
Modell has said that a majority of his assets are tied up in the Browns. To pay the tax, the estate might have had to sell the team. And given the fact that a sale could have been necessary, it's unlikely that the family could have received its full value.
... By moving to Baltimore, Modell will have a revenue stream estimated at $30 million a year. After paying the cost of running a team, he can invest the profits to help his heirs generate enough cash to pay the taxes.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
-
No. See above. The franchise was always the Browns. They just used an expansion like process to replenish the roster.
All they did, as I said, was sell the franchise to a new owner. Not much different than when Randy sold it to Haslam.
Players and coaches are fungible.
My example of the house sale is a pretty good analogy.
You move from your house, you don't move the house. You move some furniture, you don't move the house. Maybe the house is vacant for a while while you find a new buyer and they take some time to move in. It is still the same house. The foundation, the walls, the roof are all still in place.
The new buyers brought in some new furniture and appliances (players, coaches, equipment).
That is all that happened.
But what if Modell had taken the name and colors, which he very well could have, then I don't think you could apply your analogy.
You would have still had the franchise (house) in place, but the colors and name would be different. So with that couldnt you say regardless of whether the new team in Cleveland is named the Browns or the Bishops, the real Browns moved to Baltimore?
Ive heard browns fans say they wished Modell had taken the name and colors. The regimes that have been in control since 99 have dragged the name and colors through poop, turning this franchise into the greatest laughingstock in the modern era. Although Modell decided to give up the name and colors, fans have said in hindsight that the powers that be should have left the great tradition of the Cleveland Browns die and rest in peace and let the shitshow since 99 be attached to another name and colors... not the Cleveland Browns.
But what if Modell had taken the name and colors, which he very well could have, then I don't think you could apply your analogy.
But that is NOT what happened? He didn't, (and couldn't) take the house with him. He just moved and took some furniture.
You would have still had the franchise (house) in place, but the colors and name would be different. So with that couldnt you say regardless of whether the new team in Cleveland is named the Browns or the Bishops, the real Browns moved to Baltimore?
Again, that is not what happened. The franchise was left in place. The name was left in place. Everything was left in place but those furnishings. Why theorize on what could have happened...when we know the facts of what DID happen.
Ive heard browns fans say they wished Modell had taken the name and colors. The regimes that have been in control since 99 have dragged the name and colors through poop, turning this franchise into the greatest laughingstock in the modern era.
OK, well, at least, yes,you got that right. But that sort of thing can and has happened to many franchises. For many years this century the Raiders were the most pathetic franchise in the league. ....worse than the Browns. But recently they made some good personell decisions that seem to be getting them out of their 15 year doldrum. And as I said before....the 49ers, the great dynasty of the 1980s and good in the 90s has lately become a dumpster fire. And as good as the Steelers have been more recently, they had 40 years of being a shitstorm organization. And the team that has had the most #1 overall draft picks in their history have been the Colts (Balt. or Indy). And second have been the Bengals.
So, many teams at various time have been "laughingstocks". And some day soon I expect the Browns to start to be very competitive. The 3 teams in their division are all much weaker than they have been in the recent past.
Although Modell decided to give up the name and colors, fans have said in hindsight that the powers that be should have left the great tradition of the Cleveland Browns die and rest in peace and let the shitshow since 99 be attached to another name and colors... not the Cleveland Browns.
Well, again, a theory.
Another theory propounded is that every team that "moves" should do what happened with the Browns. The Colts Baltimore history should have been transferred to the new Baltimore franchise....who should be a continuation of the Colts franchise in Baltimore and not "The Ravens". The Oilers franchise should have stayed in Houston and what is now the "Texans" should still be The Oilers.
This is exactly what happened in the NBA with the Charlotte Hornets/New Orleans Hornet/Charlotte Bobcats/New Orleans Pelicans. The history of the Hornets in Charlotte was transferred back to the "Bobcats" when they changed their name back to the Hornets, and the team in New Orleans had its New Orleans history kept in New Orleans.
Here is a bit of an explanation of that transaction:
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2014/05/20/charlotte-hornets-assume-historical-records-from-new-pelicans/
Something similar has been proposed if Seattle were to get a new team. That the Sonics history be reverted to Seattle, and that Oklahoma city be considered a new, separate franchise.
Some propose that the same thing should be done with the Raiders franchise. That the "Raiders" should remain an Oakland property...and that the new Las Vegas team be given a new name, identity, history. Now, I don't think for a moment that will happen.....but perhaps it should.
Of course, the model for the Hornets/Pelicans deal was the Browns situation.
-
-
@ghoolie said:
As you can see from my Avatar, Modell DID take the name, colors and records with him to Baltimore. I actually have a Baltimore Browns sweatshirt.
The following article from Cleveland.com restates everything I have said all along.
Only people like Gipper and Hoorta fantasize that the Browns didn't leave. They did. They got the fuck out of Cleveland.
Well, if facts are fantasy....when am I in reality going to bed down Kaley Cuocco?
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/when_art_modell_moved_his_clev.html
When the move happened, I promoted the idea that the new team not be named the Browns. For reasons you cited. Plus, I accurately predicted back in 1995 that the new team should not be allowed to just come in and reap the benefits of all that went on before. I assessed that the new team would be horrible, but because of fan sentiment, the idiots would make the new owner rich no matter how shitty the team was.
Was I right?
The new team, The Cleveland Bulldogs could have been way cool, and very, very historically important and respectful of the old Browns. It could have been named with the Great Paul Brown in mind. It could have had it's own identity. Had the team been named the Cleveland Bulldogs, it would have had to win over the fans and once it did, it would have been a love affair. Given the hurt of losing the Browns, the Bulldogs would have a far more rewarding relationship to the city than this idiotic bag of shit we got instead.
I understand and think there could have been some merit to that....but the "Bulldogs" would not have had a connection with Paul Brown. Its connection would be more to Jim Thorpe and the Canton/Cleveland Bulldogs that won 3 championships back in the 20s.
However, I don't know that different name/franchise designation would have mattered or changed the history of football here over the last 20 years. We still would have had the Randy Lerner's making a mess of things...and everyone else. It would just have been done in different name.
There is no heart and soul to this team. This team is not like the Steelers to its fans. There is no fucking connection to the past with this broth of ball sacks and boogers.
This is just not true. There is far more heart and soul to Browns fans than Steeler fans. Can you imagine the crickets that would have come out over there if that team had been as bad as the Browns? Hell...just 2-3 years after winning 4 SBs in 6 years, they were getting like 35K to show up in a 59K capacity stadium.
Besides, FYI, the Steelers emerged from the Eagles franchise.
You are NEVER, EVER going to see Browns fans take over Hienz Field like we did TRS in the old days. You are never going to see Cleveland ever remedy that voluminous amount of Steeler fans that this shit franchise has helped bring to NE Ohio.
Never say never. Again, when the worm turns, the loser fans of Pisstown will abandon their team like they were empty crab shells on a beach.
The Browns are now, as you mentioned, a losing franchise, head to head, the Steelers own the Browns, and that is not going to change in our lifetime. I am here because of the good old days, and because of my many friends. But, with the birth of a new franchise in Las Vegas, and me loving Vegas so much, it is the next best thing to having The Cleveland Bulldogs.
This Browns team is a facade.
Again, wishes cannot change facts. I wish that JFK had never been assassinated, but I can't change history.
And I see....YOU are in favor of designating the Las Vegas Franchise as a "new" franchise. Does that mean you advocate leaving the Raider name and history in Oakland?
And would that not be a hypocritical stance on your part...give your attitude about the Browns?
-
Ghoolie got this right, taxes plus a pile of cash caused the BROWNS players, ALL OF THEM to move and play in Baltimore. ......
business reporter, Miriam Hill, examined motivations for the move:
Estate planning as motivation?
Decision to move team may be driven by Modell's age: 70
Art Modell's decision to move the Browns to Baltimore may be due, in part, to his need to ensure his heirs have the financial ability to keep the team after he dies.
At age 70, Modell undoubtedly has been thinking about the condition of his estate when he dies. In fact, local lawyers and financial planners say Modell's need may have been one factor in dictating the move.
"Art's world has greatly changed, and now somebody's dangling a lot of money and saying, `Here's a way to solve your problems,' said William Karnatz, an estate planning lawyer with Nicola Gudbranson & Cooper.
Modell's spokesman, David Hopcraft, could not be reached yesterday, but here is Modell's problem:
If he wanted to keep the team in the family, his heirs - probably his wife and two stepsons - would have to pay a tax of up to 55 percent of the value of the estate. With the value of the Browns franchise probably in the neighborhood of $200 million, that would put the estate taxes in the neighborhood of $100 million.
Modell has said that a majority of his assets are tied up in the Browns. To pay the tax, the estate might have had to sell the team. And given the fact that a sale could have been necessary, it's unlikely that the family could have received its full value.
... By moving to Baltimore, Modell will have a revenue stream estimated at $30 million a year. After paying the cost of running a team, he can invest the profits to help his heirs generate enough cash to pay the taxes.
Ghoolie got this right, taxes plus a pile of cash caused the BROWNS players, ALL OF THEM to move and play in Baltimore. ......
business reporter, Miriam Hill, examined motivations for the move:
Estate planning as motivation?
Decision to move team may be driven by Modell's age: 70
Art Modell's decision to move the Browns to Baltimore may be due, in part, to his need to ensure his heirs have the financial ability to keep the team after he dies.
At age 70, Modell undoubtedly has been thinking about the condition of his estate when he dies. In fact, local lawyers and financial planners say Modell's need may have been one factor in dictating the move.
"Art's world has greatly changed, and now somebody's dangling a lot of money and saying, `Here's a way to solve your problems,' said William Karnatz, an estate planning lawyer with Nicola Gudbranson & Cooper.
Modell's spokesman, David Hopcraft, could not be reached yesterday, but here is Modell's problem:
If he wanted to keep the team in the family, his heirs - probably his wife and two stepsons - would have to pay a tax of up to 55 percent of the value of the estate. With the value of the Browns franchise probably in the neighborhood of $200 million, that would put the estate taxes in the neighborhood of $100 million.
Modell has said that a majority of his assets are tied up in the Browns. To pay the tax, the estate might have had to sell the team. And given the fact that a sale could have been necessary, it's unlikely that the family could have received its full value.
... By moving to Baltimore, Modell will have a revenue stream estimated at $30 million a year. After paying the cost of running a team, he can invest the profits to help his heirs generate enough cash to pay the taxes.
That all didn't ultimately matter did it? Even with the big cash bribe, and whatever money he was making in Baltimore, he still could not succeed, and he was forced by the league to sell his team due to his financial ineptness. And now both he and the son he wanted to preserve the team for are both dead.
Perhaps we should just let the dead lie in peace. No sense rehashing that.
-
An empty rutterless, directionless, leader less empty shell was left behind.
I'm so glad that the BROWNS never left Cleveland.
An empty rutterless, directionless, leader less empty shell was left behind.
I'm so glad that the BROWNS never left Cleveland.
It was neither empty, rutteless (sic..you mean rudderless), directionless. When Al Lerner was alive, this expansion franchise went from paper to playoffs in 4 years.
But even after that none of what you say applies.....the thing is, it was directed and lead in a bad manner. It has had bad leadership, not no leadership.
It may have been better off with no leadership.
-
An empty rutterless, directionless, leader less empty shell was left behind.
I'm so glad that the BROWNS never left Cleveland.
It was neither empty, rutteless (sic..you mean rudderless), directionless. When Al Lerner was alive, this expansion franchise went from paper to playoffs in 4 years.
But even after that none of what you say applies.....the thing is, it was directed and lead in a bad manner. It has had bad leadership, not no leadership.
It may have been better off with no leadership.
(I love my tablet but sometimes occasionally it hijacks my words. Actually I'm not a bad writer and speller.)It was neither empty, rutteless (sic..you mean rudderless), directionless. When Al Lerner was alive, this expansion franchise went from paper to playoffs in 4 years.
But even after that none of what you say applies.....the thing is, it was directed and lead in a bad manner. It has had bad leadership, not no leadership.
It may have been better off with no leadership.
The BROWNS v2.0 blew draft after draft with #1 picks, bad football people! Oh Charmin' Carmen Policy used to live about 2 mles from my house before he moved, an attorney but not really a football guy. Yes they made one wild card game with Butch and lost.
Oh bad leadership is not leading, no useful leadership or no leadership and nobody to stop them.
All of that has bled on until today hence #1 picks again.
-
In the end.. the bottom line is.. I root for CLEVELAND..To hell with everything and everyone else.. I have a childhood friend on facebook who is a Cleveland transplant living in Chicago.. He was gloating about the cubs victory over the tribe and tried coercing Me to pat him on the back.. I told him.. in not so many words.. Fuck you!.. No matter where I was living or lived.. I root for CLEVELAND!!!!
-
@ghoolie said:
Oakland? Look who's talking. What, don't you like Baltimore?
Listen, Dickfuck, I don't know where you are going with this Baltimore thing, and frankly, I don't give a shit.
Here are the Professional sports teams I root for: The Cleveland Browns, the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Cleveland Indians.
Do you notice some sort of trend there?
I root for Cleveland, Ohio.
Baltimore can blow me. Oakland can lick my balls. And Vegas can eat my ass.
The Vegas Raiders are not the Oakland Raiders.
No, they're not. They are a much gayer version. Oakland is a tough city, Vegas has no soul. It's a place for soulless fucks to run to when they can't hang anymore. You should buy a condo there.
Best Climate in the USA..
Really? So you've never been to Hawaii? San Diego? Key West? Frying your fat ass in the desert in 115 temps is what works for you? Good ... that's your choice. Embrace it. Make it your own. Live in Vegas. Root for Vegas. I'm gonna live on the Beach and root for Cleveland. And sleep like a baby because I never gave up.
Florida? LMAO. Zomblow dates a lot of hot women in Naples. He takes them home and pulls on their tits until the wrinkles come out.
I get more pussy at 52 than you got at 25. Naples is stocked with MILFs 35-50, divorced. Hubby stayed up North, they live down here on his alimony, and I'm banging all of them.
Maybe if you lose 100 pounds you wouldn't have to pay for a handjob in Vegas like you do now, some rancid barfly in memphis might actually touch your dick.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Listen, Dickfuck, I don't know where you are going with this Baltimore thing, and frankly, I don't give a shit.
Here are the Professional sports teams I root for: The Cleveland Browns, the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Cleveland Indians.
Do you notice some sort of trend there?
I root for Cleveland, Ohio.
Baltimore can blow me. Oakland can lick my balls. And Vegas can eat my ass.
No, they're not. They are a much gayer version. Oakland is a tough city, Vegas has no soul. It's a place for soulless fucks to run to when they can't hang anymore. You should buy a condo there.
Really? So you've never been to Hawaii? San Diego? Key West? Frying your fat ass in the desert in 115 temps is what works for you? Good ... that's your choice. Embrace it. Make it your own. Live in Vegas. Root for Vegas. I'm gonna live on the Beach and root for Cleveland. And sleep like a baby because I never gave up.
I get more pussy at 52 than you got at 25. Naples is stocked with MILFs 35-50, divorced. Hubby stayed up North, they live down here on his alimony, and I'm banging all of them.
Maybe if you lose 100 pounds you wouldn't have to pay for a handjob in Vegas like you do now, some rancid barfly in memphis might actually touch your dick.
Zombo
Z... simply put... you are the best... the master of the "take down".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Zombo said:
Listen, Dickfuck, I don't know where you are going with this Baltimore thing, and frankly, I don't give a shit.
Here are the Professional sports teams I root for: The Cleveland Browns, the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Cleveland Indians.
Do you notice some sort of trend there?
I root for Cleveland, Ohio.
Baltimore can blow me. Oakland can lick my balls. And Vegas can eat my ass.
No, they're not. They are a much gayer version. Oakland is a tough city, Vegas has no soul. It's a place for soulless fucks to run to when they can't hang anymore. You should buy a condo there.
Really? So you've never been to Hawaii? San Diego? Key West? Frying your fat ass in the desert in 115 temps is what works for you? Good ... that's your choice. Embrace it. Make it your own. Live in Vegas. Root for Vegas. I'm gonna live on the Beach and root for Cleveland. And sleep like a baby because I never gave up.
I get more pussy at 52 than you got at 25. Naples is stocked with MILFs 35-50, divorced. Hubby stayed up North, they live down here on his alimony, and I'm banging all of them.
Maybe if you lose 100 pounds you wouldn't have to pay for a handjob in Vegas like you do now, some rancid barfly in memphis might actually touch your dick.
Zombo
Z... simply put... you are the best... the master of the "take down".
Z... simply put... you are the best... the master of the "take down".
lol..yeah "take down". Did you see how Ghoolie shoved him aside like you shove aside that angry little kid that is slapping you on the hip?
-
I agree, as a fan of Cleveland you root for the team that resides in Cleveland...the browns, the Indians, the Lake Erie Monsters, whomever.
However the reasoning Ghoolie makes is valid.
If the franchise never technically moved as argued by the Gip, then the new browns would have never been given the "expansion team" label and received the benefits that go with being an expansion team.
-
Did you see how Ghoolie shoved him aside like you shove aside that angry little kid that is slapping you on the hip?
How would I do that?
-
@ghoolie said:
I root for Cleveland too. But you know, it's okay for me to blast us, I just don't want to hear anyone else blast us.
So here is the deal about the Vegas Raiders.
I genuinely love Vegas. For a lot of reasons. I have consulting contracts with some of the casinos for taking care of water that is home to some precious mammals. Being an environmental scientist, the vast chemistry and geological wonders of the desert are food for that part of my brain. I have a lot of music opportunities there. In addition, the wife and I have VIP status and Caesars and MGM properties. We have been blessed to hit a truly unbelievable amount of hand pay jackpots there....if I showed you you would be amazed, I still am. My only explanation is that my wife is extremely generous and giving to others, and she rescued me.....I think there is truth to God blessing a cheerful giver....seriously...you would never believe the good fortune we have had there.
I am also involved in water issues and technology, so it is a natural for me.
Having the Vegas Raiders only fortifies the cool factor of Vegas. WIll it be my new team? C mon, man, you guys know better. Who is going to put up with all this pain and bullshit and then walk away. But.............. hey............. THIS is the place to air it out.
You're right, no one believes your fairytales. Yet so insecure you are, you continue wasting board space droning on and on about these fantasies in your limited brain...
-
I agree, as a fan of Cleveland you root for the team that resides in Cleveland...the browns, the Indians, the Lake Erie Monsters, whomever.
However the reasoning Ghoolie makes is valid.
If the franchise never technically moved as argued by the Gip, then the new browns would have never been given the "expansion team" label and received the benefits that go with being an expansion team.
I agree, as a fan of Cleveland you root for the team that resides in Cleveland...the browns, the Indians, the Lake Erie Monsters, whomever.
However the reasoning Ghoolie makes is valid.
If the franchise never technically moved as argued by the Gip, then the new browns would have never been given the "expansion team" label and received the benefits that go with being an expansion team.
They never WERE given the "expansion franchise" label....not by anyone affiliated with the situation (i.e. the league and the team) They underwent an expansion like player draft process in order to replenish the player roster. I was there at that draft...held at the Civic Center in Canton...and it was never referred to as an expansion draft, other than by media types and fans. It was simply called a "player draft".
What other process would you have suggest the league/team undertake to replenish the roster? They did that "player draft", and they gave the team the #1 pick in the regular draft plus like double the number of picks of other teams.
The problem was not the process so much (though, yes, they did vastly limit the number of existing players the Browns could choose from compared to what was available to the Jags and Panthers)....the problem, as has been the case since the days when even Bill Belichick was drafting for this team is that they just made poor choices.
(Tell me if you think that taking Tommy Vardell and Craig Powell doesn't seem like 21st Century Browns picks)
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login