Jimmy Garoppolo Speculation

Tour2ma

Timely (as in within the last hour) article in Fan-sided's Dawg Pound Daily on this subject...

I was going to post only some choice excerpts, but I think it warrants posting in its entirety with emphasis added to key points. It includes links to other interesting articles.

Browns are not trading a first-round pick for Jimmy Garoppolo

by Thomas Moore

The Cleveland Browns may be interested in Jimmy Garoppolo as their next quarterback, but any trade scenario involving a first-round pick is ludicrous.

As we continue to count down the days until the start of the new league year on March 9, rumors will swirl about the Cleveland Browns and their ongoing search for a franchise quarterback.

Speculation will focus on drafting a quarterback, signing one in free agency or making a trade for the presumed “best available” quarterback.

It is in that last category that we find New England Patriots backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo, who has become the one and only for media members and fans alike after throwing 94 total passes in his three years with the Patriots.

Related: There is no winning a bidding war for Jimmy Garoppolo

There are two parts to any discussion about Garoppolo as the future quarterback for the Browns.

The first centers around the idea of whether or not he is worth trading for in the first place. It has been well established that – outside of lucking into Tom Brady – Patriots head coach Bill Belichick is horrible when it comes to drafting quarterbacks. It is also a complete myth that quarterbacks simply get better by being around Belichick and Brady.

But for the sake of today’s argument, we’ll work under the assumption that the Browns have done their homework, have watched each of those 94 glorious passes in full, and have come to the conclusion that Garoppolo is the man who head coach Hue Jackson wants to hitch his wagon to.

That leads to the second, and just as important, question of how much should the Browns be willing to give up for Garoppolo.

It was presented early on that the Patriots would want a first-round pick for a player they selected with the 62nd overall selection in the 2014 NFL Draft. And since the Browns hold a pair of first-round picks (No. 1 and No. 12) they of course would be willing to part with one of those in a trade for a quarterback with 94 career passes.

That has always been a puzzling idea as it is hard to see how a player’s value can appreciate when they spend three years doing nothing.

Pro Football Focus tackled that very subject in a post on Saturday as they try to determine how much is too much to give up in a trade for Garoppolo.

Possibly the most important line in the article – and one that far too many Browns fans simply dismiss – is this one:

“If Garoppolo is that good, the Patriots should seriously consider keeping him and even franchise tagging him next offseason.”

It’s great that Brady says he wants to keep playing well into his 40s, and of course the Patriots are going to do everything they can to push that line of thinking, but the reality is that quarterbacks playing well into their 40s doesn’t happen.

But let’s go along with the idea that the Patriots simply must trade Garoppolo. So what should the Browns give up in return?

PFF writer John Kosko used an updated draft chart created by Kevin Meers – who just happens to be the Browns director of research and strategy – to place a value on Garoppolo and determined that the No. 12 overall pick in this year’s draft and a fourth-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft would be enough to pry away a generational talent from the Patriots.

But then Kosko points out just how ludicrous that plan would be for the Browns:

… the Browns’ analytical approach covets draft picks, and if that fourth-round pick Cleveland trades is near the top of the round, that package is the equivalent of the fourth overall pick in the draft, based on the chart. Simply put, increasing the value of Garoppolo 58 spots in the draft based on six quarters of play is unlikely. Any conversation that starts with a straight first and fourth for Garoppolo won’t have legs when it comes to the Browns.
Another popular trade scenario is trading two second-round picks for Garoppolo. If the Browns trade both of their later second-round picks in 2017 (pick 50) and in 2018 (not set, but assume 50 again), that’s valuing Garoppolo as the 10th overall pick—another unlikely trade scenario.

The Browns clearly need to do something to fix the quarterback position. They are not going to win until they do, and if they head into the 2017 season with Robert Griffin III and Cody Kessler as the top two quarterbacks on the roster they will be well on their way to the top overall selection in the 2018 NFL Draft.

Garoppolo may well be the quarterback that Jackson wants and if that is the case the Browns need to see if they can work out a deal with the Patriots.

Next: Browns fans need to chill on Myles Garrett video

But if those trade talks don’t start with executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown stating that the first-round picks are off the table, then this new regime may not be as smart as portrayed.

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/02/12/cleveland-browns-jimmy-garoppolo-3/

Umadogg1

Browns fans beg for a veteran QB. No more rookies they plead.

Well, as if on cue the Bengals front office wants to remind you AJ McCarron is no rookie. Just this week multiple Bengal front office types (Tobin/Lippincott) give multiple interviews proclaiming McCarron is now too valuable to trade. They ask aloud, what's an experienced backup QB worth to a playoff contending team like the Bengals? Plenty, they say.

And of course all of this trade talk prompts Bengals beat writer Paul Daugherty to write about how much the Bengals would regret trading McCarron for what will amount to a few magic draft beans. McCarron has it, says Daugherty. Might be better than Dalton.

Now Ian Rappaport says the Browns aren't the only team sniffin' round McCarron. Apparently the Bears have concluded Garappolo will cost way too much in draft picks and actual cash and are looking for a less expensive player who fits the same description. Rappaports article prompts a Chicago beat writer to claim the Bears are adamant about trying to find a young QB who already has several years of NFL experience on an NFL roster learning scheme, like McCarron, who has a handful of NFL starts, and one start in a playoff game, and most important....thousands of practice reps and countless hours of film study in a pass heavy NFL scheme. (In Cleveland he wouldn't even need to learn new terminology.)

Meanwhile, Garoppolo. Square peg, round hole.

Funnier still, after commiting blindly from day one to Garappolo by giving him a massive new 4-5 year contract Jimmy G will show up, give a press conference giving thanks and blessings, and then report to work eager to learn from Cody Kessler.

Tour2ma

Brisset's stepping in is not exactly a selling point for JG.

Flugel

It wasn't that long ago when NE was trying to fool teams into Vanilla Ice Jr (Mallett).

And all the former Patriot employees that brought Matt Cassell to KC got fired when he wasn't anything close to the 10 game winner he was 1 year under BB in NE. BB got the Cinderella story before midnight while KC got the toothless hag after midnight for 10x the cap hit.

LondonBrown

13 pages on someone that's highly likely to never play a down for the Browns haha

hoorta

@flugel said:

It wasn't that long ago when NE was trying to fool teams into Vanilla Ice Jr (Mallett).

And all the former Patriot employees that brought Matt Cassell to KC got fired when he wasn't anything close to the 10 game winner he was 1 year under BB in NE. BB got the Cinderella story before midnight while KC got the toothless hag after midnight for 10x the cap hit.

But it's SOOO different with Garropolo. Boo just doesn't get it- the Vikings giving up a first round pick for Bradford was a humongous anomaly. Any comparison between Bradford and Garropolo is laughable.

@boo-fagley said:

Why

Why? because why would Bill keep a guy That has 55 attempts, 308 passing yards, and got shut out by the Bills be a better option that your hero Jimmy? Seriously- you're bordering on trolling. Oh, he's still on his rookie contract? So is Garropolo.

@londonbrown said:
13 pages on someone that's highly likely to never play a down for the Browns haha

Yes London. Tour's post gives the same arguments we've been telling Boo- people looking at the situation with an objective eye. It did strike me that from a Browns point of view, looks like the Patriots have fired up the media hype machine about Jimmy- did Bill pay a few people off? Of course we KNOW Bill has Lombardi in his back pocket. I'm considering shutting down this thread- it's gotten to the point we're beating a dead horse.

TexasAg1969

@boo-fagley said:

You guys realize that this is not real life right?

Belichick did not send me to negotiate with the Fantasy GMs here. Some of you get downright upset like youre the ones handing over the draft pick.Nothing said or done here will have any effect on the outcome of this topic. Sorry fellas. The Browns and Patriots front offices are not following this thread debating on what to do next.

Not reality, at least for me anyway.

Come on! We are followers of Kellyanne Conway here! We have alternative facts!

jiggins7919

That article is a bit misleading to me. It makes it sound like fact that the Browns won't trade a first round pick for JG. Did they get a statement from our front office that I missed? I don't think anybody truly knows what the heck is going on in terms of the deal that MIGHT happen for the guy. The last deal I can think of that is somewhat similar to the possible JG trade was the Matt Schaub situation. Remember when Schaub played a bit in Atlanta and looked pretty darn good in backup duty? He was eventually traded to Houston for a second round pick, and I'm not sure what else. I could mistaken, as it was a while ago, but I'm pretty sure a second rounder was involved. Many people remember the end of Schaub's career, and it wasn't pretty, but before that, he strung together a few really good years. To put that into perspective, I think most Browns' fans would be absolutely THRILLED with 3 years of solid, if not spectacular, play.

If we can get JG for a 2nd and 4th...I do it IMMEDIATELY.

Tour2ma

The ATL/HOU deal was:

Schaub + 2007 #10 <==> 2007 #8 + 2007 R2 + 2008 R3

@boo-fagley said:
Why

Because it is clear as can be that Brisett is nothing special... and that take tends to taint JG by extension.

The Gipper

@umadogg1 said:

Top 5 AJ McCarron thread starters:

1) - Wife Katherine Webb is smoking hot. Google her and prepare to be fully Musbergered, you dirty old man.

2) - AJ's upper body is covered in hand drawn Jeebus tats and his head has a massive scar left over from a boating accident. So colorful. Discuss!

3) - Has the "it" factor. Can't be defined but you'll know it when you see it. (Massive head scar looks like a halo to some.)

4) - Doesn't require 25m commitment. 2017 salary less than 675k and won't be a RFA until 2018. Trade for and audition for 2 years at minimal real costs.

5) = Free Rustproofing. What do I have to do to put you in this QB today?

Well......if that happened, it would have to be one of the rarest events in the NFL: trading a QB intradivision.

I mean, as far as I know, the last time a trade intradivision was made involving the Browns it was when the Browns traded Dick Shiner to the Steelers for Bill Nelsen. (and the Browns got the far better end of that trade).

Does anyone know of it happening since?

Bottom line....if the Bengals do think about trading McCarron, the last place they would trade him is either Cleveland/Pitt. or Baltimore.

Fair to say?

The Gipper

@westside-steve said:

I have absolutely nothing to do with any of that. Not within my powers nor my responsibilities and I wouldn't have considered doing it in the first place anyway.

To tell you the truth I have no idea why it happened, unless you are a Squeelers fan.

WSS

Boo just keeps playing Fantasy Football with the Patriots. He keeps thinking that absolutely absurd things are going to happen.

He is a bit like PoG and his man crushes for the likes of Trent Richardson.

The Gipper

@flugel said:

It wasn't that long ago when NE was trying to fool teams into Vanilla Ice Jr (Mallett).

And all the former Patriot employees that brought Matt Cassell to KC got fired when he wasn't anything close to the 10 game winner he was 1 year under BB in NE. BB got the Cinderella story before midnight while KC got the toothless hag after midnight for 10x the cap hit.

Nice. A good fairy tale.

Just like the one about the Browns trading like #12 for JG. Fairy tale.

If Ryan Mallet is Vanilla Ice Jr., the Jimmy Garropolo is Joey Fatone Jr.

The Gipper

@texasag1969 said:

Come on! We are followers of Kellyanne Conway here! We have alternative facts!

"We" means "you".

But great SNL bit.

RoyceRolls

@the-gipper said:

Well......if that happened, it would have to be one of the rarest events in the NFL: trading a QB intradivision.

I mean, as far as I know, the last time a trade intradivision was made involving the Browns it was when the Browns traded Dick Shiner to the Steelers for Bill Nelsen. (and the Browns got the far better end of that trade).

Does anyone know of it happening since?

Bottom line....if the Bengals do think about trading McCarron, the last place they would trade him is either Cleveland/Pitt. or Baltimore.

Fair to say?

The Browns just traded Gilbert to Pittsburgh (for them to cut). I've been saying it for a while but the reason you've given is the reason I cannot see McCarron in Cleveland.

hoorta

@boo-fagley said:

I am bordering on trolling?

Dont you think that Garroplos agent would like a payday? Why would the Pats make Garrapolo sit for how many more years until Brady retires? Can you fathom that Garrapolo wants to play something he has likely dreamed about all his life - NFL football on Sunday? Its a QB weak NFL draft. Should the Pats hang on to Jimmy Garropolo until the next NFL draft thats loaded with QBs?

The Patriots have always had QBs in development - Rohan Davey, Brian Hoyer, Michael Bishop, Ryan Mallet, Kliff Klingsbury. Matt Cassel.

The whole he cant be any good if Team X is letting him go argument is ridiculous, TJ Ward was let go. He looked OK winning the Super Bowl last year. Martellius Bennet is moving on from NE. He must not be any good. The Steelers let Legarret Blount walk. I sure am glad that he isnt any good 18 TDs this season and a Super Bowl ring later.

Rolling out those names is an excellent reason why Browns fans are sceptical! You already have said at least once "it's different this time with Jimmy." Proves you're arguing in circles, and repeating yourself. The track record of players released or traded by Bill is less than stellar. So sorry if I have trouble believing Jimmy can be a long term multiple pro bowl answer for the Browns.

Regarding Ward, it was just one of many horrible decisions by a clueless FO. Sheard, Schwartz, Gabriel- I could go on.

Flugel

@roycerolls said:
The Browns just traded Gilbert to Pittsburgh (for them to cut). I've been saying it for a while but the reason you've given is the reason I cannot see McCarron in Cleveland.

True. I think the only way McCarron would get here is via FA, which isn't in 2017.

hoorta

@flugel said:

True. I think the only way McCarron would get here is via FA, which isn't in 2017.

Interesting Flugs the other backup in the discussion McCarron gets around 5 comments- including a few by our pal Ummadog, and this thread is 14 pages and counting. It's getting me ill all of the attention on Garropolo. The flavor of the week- more attention than Watson or Kizer- combined. Here's some backup to my point- the latest media's nut hugging fascination over the guy. Is it getting fueled by Bill and his minions- or do they collectively have the cumulative insight of a groundhog about Jimmy? To their credit, at least some of the Browns media deservedly isn't wearing the rose colored glasses. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000785403/article/charley-casserly-mock-draft-10-trades-shake-up-round-1

They're just not going to let this die. BARF! Seriously- why do New England's backup quarterbacks get all this media love and attention? It's not like plenty of them have flopped badly after they've left the cozy environment of Foxboro. From a Browns fans perspective the lines in the sand are pretty much drawn already.

1) Don't want him under any circumstance.

2) OK with a trade at the right price

3) Sure, ship the Patriots our #12 and something more to get him, he's gonna be the BOMB.

The simplistic media groupthink is well- the Browns are going to get Garrett with the #1, and they'll be happy to get their QBOTF in Jimmy with that extra pick in the first round. I have to hope Sashi, DePo, and Hue aren't that shallow. They're going to analyze every one of LOL Jimmy's 94 NFL passes- thoroughly. The ONLY way they're going to pull the trigger on a trade like that is if they're 100% certain Garropolo is the real deal, and he's a better option than one of the many top players available @ #12, and there isn't a 2017 qb prospect that might turn out better. It also flies in the face of our Front office's desire to add draft picks, not trade them away.

choco

I don't really remember anyone crying over Gabriel at the time of his release. Think a large majority of people were tired of the Smurfs. Considering how poor his second year was, followed by a poor camp, thought the move was fine.

So he blossomed whilst having a fqb and true #1 across from him. Think the real lesson is to ease up on expectations...Players are deemed all-pro or busts by this fanbase after their first few games, so maybe the way to look at this would be that's players often need time before the light goes on.

Not here tho...Produce from your first game on or you'll be replaced by another guy that'll be given 4 games to prove it.

hoorta

@choco said:

I don't really remember anyone crying over Gabriel at the time of his release. Think a large majority of people were tired of the Smurfs. Considering how poor his second year was, followed by a poor camp, thought the move was fine.

So he blossomed whilst having a fqb and true #1 across from him. Think the real lesson is to ease up on expectations...Players are deemed all-pro or busts by this fanbase after their first few games, so maybe the way to look at this would be that's players often need time before the light goes on.

Not here tho...Produce from your first game on or you'll be replaced by another guy that'll be given 4 games to prove it.

Well, they released Gabriel and kept every one of their rookie wr draft picks. I thought that was FO arrogance. Coleman produced little, and the rest of the crew virtually nothing. So keep Coleman and DeValve, and get rid of the rest of the crew.

There's a few of us who thought (notably Tour) who felt cutting Gabriel was a mistake.

Osiris

@hoorta said:

Well, they released Gabriel and kept every one of their rookie wr draft picks. I thought that was FO arrogance. Coleman produced little, and the rest of the crew virtually nothing. So keep Coleman and DeValve, and get rid of the rest of the crew.

There's a few of us who thought (notably Tour) who felt cutting Gabriel was a mistake.

Everyone seems to forget that football is a team sport. Unless the Browns got their own version of Matt Ryan and Julio Jones, Gabriel was not going to flourish in Cleveland. Put another way, Gabriel had the season he did with Atlanta because he was with Atlanta. He would not have had that season in Cleveland.