Jimmy Garoppolo Speculation

[The Gipper]

@tour2ma said:

The bitter truth is Bill was right about Bernie... he was on the decline.

But Bernie was 10 times better than Todd Philcox....even in decline. And like I said, the switch to Philcox killed that season.

All because BK changed a play....and scored a TD on it, that BB didn't want him to change. (Probably a "Metcalf up the middle call)

The problem was he did not have a "Brady" with which to replace him. Vinnie was a serviceable sub at best as he showed in '94 when we went 9-4 in his 13 starts despite him throwing more INTs than TDs. He led a "Who? Who?" of Offensive players opposite the last great Defense we'd see for 22 years and counting.

[The Gipper]

@boo-radley said:

VT always threw a lot of INTS.

When he played for the Jets he was known as Inceptaverde.

Over the years Cleveland has had some good offensive players.

Yea. Ever hear of Otto Graham? Jim Brown. Lou Groza? Marion Motley? Paul Warfield.

[The Gipper]

@darren15 said:

NFLTradeRumors.co ‏@nfltrade_rumors 20m20 minutes ago

More

Report: Bears To Make “Strong, Concerted Effort” To Trade For QB Jimmy Garoppolo http://bit.ly/2k0yFww

Bears, 49ers, Cardinals, all could be in mix. Here is one thing: If the Pats do trade him, I would suspect that they would put vast weight on trading him outside the AFC. One reason Browns could be out of the mix

I mean, one other team that could perhaps use him?: The Jets. Could you see the Pats sending him to the Jets?

[hoorta]

@boo-radley said:

Cassel had 2 teams after him Denver and KC. Vrabel had a year or two left in his career and was starting to fade in NE. When Cassel took over for Brady NE changed the offense to a more run oriented attack. NE was a top 5 running team with Cassel in 2008 after Brady throwing for 50 tds in 2007. Garropolo can make all the throws and ran the same offense as Brady. His arm looks strong and his passes were sometimes better than Bradys.

Garrpolo looked ready to start this season. That's your opinion, not shared by many on this board. And so did a bunch of other New England fill in quarterbacks. So is it the QB, or the system?

Bradford stinks. His body of work is a train wreck of being over paid, not delivering and injured. Bradford fetched a 1st and a 4th. By a team desperate to get to the playoffs THAT year, playing in their new pleasure palace. Need way over trumped logic. Any SANE team wouldn't have paid that much- probably no more than a second. Can't see that was WAY overvaluing what Bradford was worth? Looks like that's what you're admitting. Counting on another team being that desperate for Jimmy? LOL, was Ricky Williams worth giving up an entire draft for? Garropolo is worth no less than a 1st round pick in a draft year slim on QBs. The market for trading him is this year. Belichick will also trade Garoppolo because he does not want a QB controversy played out in the media on a daily basis like we saw with Farve and Rodgers. Gip has it right, unless Brady gets hurt there's NO qb controversy. And regarding 2018, if the 49ers could trade Montana, you think no possibility Bill wouldn't trade Brady if he's so damn confident Garropolo is the REAL DEAL?

The Patriots have $63.2 million in cap space next year, third-most in the NFL behind the Broncos and Buccaneers, according to overthecap.com.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/02/patriots-cap-space-contracts-bill-belichick-tom-brady

Collins is already gone and Sheard has 1 foot out the door.

First off- my bad regarding the cap- I was looking at the wrong year on Sportrac. It does bring up an interesting point. Why would Bill dump a pro bowl linebacker in his prime because the doesn't like the way he plays? Really?

So if Bill wants franchise quarterback compensation for Garropolo, there's only a couple ways to decipher Bill's thinking. The first would follow my and Gip's logic- he's really not a franchise QB, and Bellichick is trying to rob another team blind. Or he really IS a franchise qb, and Bill thinks Brady is going to play at a high level forever, LOL- or at least 3 more years, and won't get hurt (both humongous risks in my book) and he can find an adequate replacement in the meantime. If he thinks Jacoby Brissett is an adequate replacement should Brady get hurt- it sure doesn't say much about Garropolo's true value. It would fry my ass beyond belief if we traded the #12 for Jimmy, and Bill drafts another qb with that pick.

[The Gipper]

@hoorta said:

First off- my bad regarding the cap- I was looking at the wrong year on Sportrac. It does bring up an interesting point. Why would Bill dump a pro bowl linebacker in his prime because the doesn't like the way he plays? Really?

So if Bill wants franchise quarterback compensation for Garropolo, there's only a couple ways to decipher Bill's thinking. The first would follow my and Gip's logic- he's really not a franchise QB, and Bellichick is trying to rob another team blind. Or he really IS a franchise qb, and Bill thinks Brady is going to play at a high level forever, LOL- or at least 3 more years, and won't get hurt (both humongous risks in my book) and he can find an adequate replacement in the meantime. It would fry my ass beyond belief if we traded the #12 for Jimmy, and Bill drafts another qb with that pick.

Hell, maybe BB thinks that Jacoby Brisset is a better future option for the Pats than JG,

But, actually, what I think it is is that BB will retire when TB retires....and he doesn't really give a shit who the future QB of the Pats is going to be.

(though....I would think that even if BB would retire as HC....he could still stay on as like Director of Football Operations or some such title....what he is doing now in addition to coaching).

He may be looking more to his future as a GMish only...not as HC....and he wants to pile up assets. He is willing to let JG go for the right price....so he will have something to play with in the future. Remember, they lost their first round pick last year to Deflategate. He may want to recoup that pick somehow....and he will puff up JG (who he may not have that much faith in anyway)

[tiamat63]

If the same Bears that were willing to hand Cutler 100mil want JG, it should give you pause.

[hoorta]

@tour2ma said:

Decided to look up Jimmy's Air Yards per attempt. He's #20 with 4.17. Better than all our current QBs, but what caught my eye were the QBs around Jimmy...

Player.. Team YDS YAC AirYds AY/Att % of Air Yards % of YAC to Total

Tom Brady NE 3,554 1,752 1,802 4.17 50.7% 49.3%

MattMoore MIA 721 358 363 4.17 50.4% 49.7%

JGaroppolo NE 502 239 263 4.17 52.4% 47.6%

MatCassel TEN 284 72 212 4.16 74.7% 25.4%

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2016/

One of these things is not like the others... and the other three are all products of the same system.

BEWARE!

Watched some of the Pats- Miami game. Plenty of dinks & dunks, and nice clean pockets to throw from. We both know any qb can look great doing that. If boo wants to say Cassel was a product of changing the game plans to protect Cassel, same could be said about changing Jimmy to Captain Checkdown. Oh, no mention Garropolo got dinged in the second game either.

[The Gipper]

@tiamat63 said:

If the same Bears that were willing to hand Cutler 100mil want JG, it should give you pause.

They didn't do that though, did they.

Cutler to the Browns? As "bridge" veteran?

[tiamat63]

@the-gipper said:

They didn't do that though, did they.

Cutler to the Browns? As "bridge" veteran?

The only greater NOPE I can give you is the one I have reserved for Jabrill Peppers.

[The Gipper]

@tiamat63 said:

The only greater NOPE I can give you is the one I have reserved for Gerbil Peppers.

I thought that might get some reaction.

[hoorta]

@boo-radley said:

Dink and dunk?

OK, you got a hard on for this guy- we get it. If you can 1\2 believe Hue, all the options are on the table including Garropolo. Stand pat @ qb, draft Trubisky or one of the other qbs in damn near any round, Go defense with Garrett or Allen. Combine isn't for a month, that may change things, including the rumor Mitch isn't 6'3". For all we know Shanahan may like Jimmy better than anyone else.

[jiggins7919]

Just watched the JG throws against the Fins, and I came away pretty damn impressed. It's obvious the kid has a good pocket presence. Numerous throws displayed JG moving up or around in the pocket while keeping his head down the field. He doesn't hesitate to throw across the middle, and he appears to have a compact, quick release. While he doesn't look "fast", he certainly doesn't look slow or immobile. His deep throws were a bit off, but that usually takes a few weeks to get measured out. All of his touchdown throws were simply awesome, and I think they all came against pressure. He also had some impressive "3rd and long" throws that were spot on. We all know it's one game, but it was impressive. Obviously he got injured and had to leave the game, but I don't think that should be held against him.

[choco]

What exactly are highlights supposed to tell anyone? Weeden has a highlight video as well...? Terribly misleading, and not a tool used by real evaluators.

Sure does provide fans with something to talk about though.

[greekx7]

Would give 33 rd pick for him no higher

[Tour2ma]

@boo-radley said:

Weeden has NFL highlights?

Absolutely... he had whole games where we'd think "he's getting it," only to crash to earth the following week.

Your earlier, "It's the system" comment was exactly what struck me about the stat grouping of Brady-Garrop-Cassell.

[The Gipper]

@boo-radley said:

Its been a long day and you have told so many lies today that I dont know where to begin.

The 3 to 4 posts that I glanced over are full of deception.

I am going have to get back to you when I can.

I am sorry that you can't handle the truth.

[The Gipper]

@boo-radley said:

The first of many lies.

No, wrong, not 1992. 1993 Tommy Flanagan. Remember him from SNL? A compulsive liar?

Exhibit A http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1993.htm

OK, what the fuck ever. It has been 24-25 years ago, and I was going from memory. So I was off a year. All this is is an admission on your part that you are a pluperfect pedantic prick.

Kosar started the 1993 season (unless it was all a mirage) and was taken out of 3rd game of the season and replaced by Testaverde. Not Philcox as the OP (Mr Tommy Flanagan) has stated in other lies and deceit in this forum.

Thank you Capt Obvious.

How old are you? I doubt you are even old enough to remember. Earlier in the year, Vinny may have replaced Bernie....but Vinny got hurt. Then Bernie started the next couple or three games. Then against Denver, Bernie wrote up the play "in the dirt" and threw a TD pass instead of doing the Metcalf up the middle play that BB wanted him to run. Then BB benched Bernie. Philcox started the next 3 games....all losses. Later, Vinny recovered and replaced Philcox. By that time I think BK had been cut. Bernie was fine to play, BB just was having his little snit. It cost the Browns a chance at the playoffs.

Not even 2.5 years had past after we correct your lies. "Several" is a crock of sheet and implies that a substantial period of time had past giving credence that correct decision had been made.

Well....again, pedantic.

Merriam Webster: Several: b : more than two but fewer than many

2.5 is more than two

No, Belichick was hated in Cleveland by the media and fan base. They never forgave him for sending the home town boy packing.

Well, that may be the ONE item you got right.

Because owners listen to the fan base and monitor the mood in smaller football towns like Cleveland and Buffalo and KC.

BB was run out by the media and fans and no Tommy Flanagan can change that now.

Now you are just ignorant. If that were the case.....BB would have been gone 2 years earlier. He would have been run out of Cleveland by the fans and media then. But....lo and behold....he was still in Cleveland 2.5 years and a playoff berth later. Odd that.

He was then run out of Baltimore by the team owner.

Anyone that believes otherwise is a mental midget.

Browns fans are passionate fans and sometimes things can get out of hand.

Maybe.....but as you can tell from the record over the last 17 years....no amount of passion or getting out of hand can improve poor team management/ownership.

[Tour2ma]

MKC is now bringing in reinforcements...

Kyle Shanahan liked Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo 1 and 2 in 2014, but Browns drafted Johnny Manziel

HOUSTON -- Kyle Shanahan admitted at the Super Bowl Thursday that he really liked Patriots backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo coming out in 2014 when he was offensive coordinator of the Browns, and a source said he had him ranked right behind Derek Carr on his QB list.

But the Browns traded up in the first round and took Johnny Manziel No. 22 instead -- despite the fact Shanahan, now the Falcons' offensive coordinator, was not in favor of drafting him or Teddy Twatwater.

"They (the Farmer FO) had me look at every quarterback and evaluate every quarterback,'' he said at the Super Bowl Thursday. "That's everywhere. They ask you to evaluate everyone and you give grades and you tell people who you want and you wait to see what happens."

Is the report true that he really liked Garoppolo, who's about to become the hottest QB commodity of the off-season?

"Yes, I did,'' he said.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/02/kyle_shanahan_liked_derek_carr.html#incart_2box

Article includes a couple other interesting tidbits as well...

• "Everybody wants a quarterback,'' he said. "You've just got to hope that there is one and you always take the guy who gives you the best chance to win, and usually that's a quarterback but it could be a D-lineman. Everybody wants to have a great quarterback right away, but if it were easy to have one, everyone would have one.''
• "Kirk is a natural thrower who's fearless and lets it rip,'' said Shanahan. "(As for) guys who can process and go fast in the pocket, Kirk's as good as anybody.''
• Regarding Manziel, Shanahan liked him as a person, and believed he could develop as an NFL quarterback. "I'm not sure (if he'll make it back into the league),'' Shanahan said.

[The Gipper]

@boo-radley said:

How many cases do you win?

I wont resort to calling you an idiot. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199309260clt.htm Testavere started the 4th game in 1993 and threw a TD pass unless Philcox was actually wearing Testaverdes jersey and in disguise. That is plausible and I am positive that you can run with that narrative. After Kosar started games 1,2 and 3 Vinnie Testaverde replaced Kosar. If you would like to call him Vinnie Philcox go ahead.

You are wrong about a fanbase firing a coach too. It happened in KC with Pioli and Crennel.

Do you bother to read what you post? Here is the order of things in that 1993 season:

1. Game 1. Bengals, Bernie starts, Browns win 27-14 1-0

2. Game 2. 49ers, Bernie starts, Browns win 23-17. 2-0

3. Game 3. Raiders BK starts, gets hurt, Vinny finishes Browns win 19-16 3-0

4. Game 4. Colts. Vinny starts. gets hurt, Bernie finishes Lose 23-10 3-1

5. Game 4. Dolphins. Bernie starts Lose 24-14 3-2

(this is the game in which Dan Marino tears his achilles heel and is replaced by the immortal Scott Mitchell...who torches BBs defense) BK also hurt again

6. Game 6. Bengals Vinny starts. Browns win 28-17 4-2

7. Game 7. Steelers Vinny starts, gets hurt, BK comes in Browns win 28-27 go to 5-2

8. Game 8. Broncos Bernie starts. The critical game of the season. BBs defense can't handle Elway. Broncos go up by 29-7 in the 4th quarter. Late in the game, Bernie changes a play call from a run up the middle to a pass play. He hits Michael Jackson for a TD. It still only makes the Final score Broncos 29, Browns 14. Browns go to 5-3

BK line in this game: 16-30 226 yards. 2 TDs -0- ints. 6 sacks.

Sound like a diminished QB there? What was diminished was the shitty fucking defense that BB had to combat Elway. And the shitty Offensive line they had in place to protect the QB. 6 sacks.

But BB in his wisdom....and being in a snit because BK knew more about how to call plays than he did....and because his defense played like shit, cuts BK.

9. Game 9. Seahawks Philcox replaces Bernie because BK is gone and Vinny is still hurt. Lose 22-5 Go to 5-4

10. Game 10. Oilers. Philcox starts. Lose 27-20 Go to 5-5

11. Game 11. Falcons. Philcox starts. Lose 17-14 Go to 5-6

12. Game 12. Saints. Philcos starts. Vinny is able to play and replaces Philcox. Browns win 17-13 Go to 6-6

13. Game 13. Oilers. Vinny starts. Browns lose 19-17 go to 6-7

14. Game 14. Pats. Vinny starts. Browns lose 20-17 go to 6-8

15. Game 15. Rams Vinny starts. Browns win 42-14 (in one of best games he or any Browns QB ever played. He was like 22-24)

Browns go to 7-8

16. Game 16. Steelers Vinny starts. Browns lose 16-9. Finish season 7-9.

Point is this: Bernie starts season, He gets hurt. Vinny takes over. Vinny gets hurt. Bernie takes over. Bernie gets hurt again, Vinny takes over. Vinny gets hurt again, Bernie takes over. Bernie improvises on a play to score a TD.....BB gets mad (as much at himself for having a suckass O Line and for bad defense) He puts in Philcox. Who proceeds to lose, lose, lose and take Browns out of playoff contention.

While perhaps Vinny may have been the better ultimate option for the Browns, and where Bernie was getting hurt behind the Browns terrible O Line (as was Vinny).....even a 50% Bernie would have been better than a 100% Todd Philcox.

[The Gipper]

@tour2ma said:

MKC is now bringing in reinforcements...

Kyle Shanahan liked Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo 1 and 2 in 2014, but Browns drafted Johnny Manziel

HOUSTON -- Kyle Shanahan admitted at the Super Bowl Thursday that he really liked Patriots backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo coming out in 2014 when he was offensive coordinator of the Browns, and a source said he had him ranked right behind Derek Carr on his QB list.

But the Browns traded up in the first round and took Johnny Manziel No. 22 instead -- despite the fact Shanahan, now the Falcons' offensive coordinator, was not in favor of drafting him or Teddy Twatwater.

"They (the Farmer FO) had me look at every quarterback and evaluate every quarterback,'' he said at the Super Bowl Thursday. "That's everywhere. They ask you to evaluate everyone and you give grades and you tell people who you want and you wait to see what happens."

Is the report true that he really liked Garoppolo, who's about to become the hottest QB commodity of the off-season?

"Yes, I did,'' he said.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/02/kyle_shanahan_liked_derek_carr.html#incart_2box

Article includes a couple other interesting tidbits as well...

• "Everybody wants a quarterback,'' he said. "You've just got to hope that there is one and you always take the guy who gives you the best chance to win, and usually that's a quarterback but it could be a D-lineman. Everybody wants to have a great quarterback right away, but if it were easy to have one, everyone would have one.''
• "Kirk is a natural thrower who's fearless and lets it rip,'' said Shanahan. "(As for) guys who can process and go fast in the pocket, Kirk's as good as anybody.''
• Regarding Manziel, Shanahan liked him as a person, and believed he could develop as an NFL quarterback. "I'm not sure (if he'll make it back into the league),'' Shanahan said.

So? Who DO we blame for that debacle? Pettine? Farmer? Apparently not Shanahan. Haslam? The homeless guy?