With the Twelfth pick ......
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No trading the picks. We need to come out of round one with two good players who can contribute NOW. (UNLESS, of course, they draft a QB...in which case he should NOT be expected to contribute NOW)
I've been saying this for months.They cannot/should not consider trading any of their first 5 picks.
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Orion-DJ's latest draft has us taking WR Davis from W.Mich @ 12. I just can't see it after 4 wr's in 2016. They'd get out the tar & feathers. Especially with a hitter like Foster going later. Can't pass on him for a wr IMO.
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@ghoolie said:
Garrett will be a wasted pick. WIth no offense, he will make plays, fatigue and have offenses neutralizing him by week 8. Watch the Alabama fatass LT completely shut this guy down. He's no Bosa. Not even close.
Ghoolie...Bosa got stonewalled quite a bit during his last year in college. I'm NOT saying that if the Browns draft Garrett, he'll have the same year that Bosa did. I think that's crazy, as Bosa had a near historic rookie season. However, I see Garrett providing an instant impact, and maybe more importantly, having a bigger impact on Ogbah. There were SO MANY times last year where Ogbah got really nice pressure on the QB, but since there wasn't any OPPOSING pressure, the QB simply drifted away from Ogbah and either completed a pass or threw it away.
Obviously, there's no way to say if you're right or if I am until the day comes Garrett is drafted and starts to play. Hopefully wearing a Browns' uniform.
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The #12 pick is interesting. Unfortunately, it appears to JUST be out of the range for those "elite" level guys. Of course, that's all opinion, but I've heard similar sentiment on our radio show and other reports. Jamal Adams or Malik Hooker would be ideal for us, but nobody believes they'll be there at 12...even with Hooker recovering from two surgeries. Are we desperate enough at safety to try and move up for one? I honestly don't want to use assets to move up from 12, but I do realize that safety is a severe need, and prospects like those two guys don't come around all of the time. If we don't go safety or corner at 12, do we wait until pick 33 and hope the safety from Washington is available? I like the guy, but I'm not sure we can risk it. There's a very real scenario where we miss out on Jamal Adams, Hooker, and Budda Baker from Washington. That would not be good, as I think safety is probably our biggest weakness (and that's saying something). We whiffed on Jefferson and McDonald, so we need to do something.
If we don't trade up from 12, and Adams and Hooker are gone, the pick starts to get tricky. Would I love Corey Davis, Mike Williams, or even O.J. Howard at 12? Yeah, I probably would, but drafting a WR or TE there just reminds me of the Pryor debacle, and that makes me angry. Angry that we literally could've been pretty set at on offense if Pryor's agent, or himself, would've just pulled their head from their ass. As much as we need offensive help, I'm leaning towards LB Reuben Foster at 12. I'm thinking Gregg Williams will be good for us, and getting him as much talent as possible could help turn us into something like the Texans. Let's build our defense, offensive line, and running game....see what happens there. I'm not thrilled with the QB class, so why force a first rounder? Or even a second rounder? Let's ride out with Cody Kessler and have Brock Osweiler backing him up. Take somebody like Davis Webb or Joshua Dobbs in the third round, and try to develop them. If we still need our franchise QB next year, which we probably will, we can use some of our resources to move up and grab a guy we like.
Of course, I'll change my mind in 45 minutes, but whatever.
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Find a mock that doesn't show Garrett going #1.
At pick #12 I'd like to see us take:
I can't fault them if they pick the QB here. IMO, you keep swinging the bat until you hit one out. QB is THAT important.
If one of the big WR's are available....we need a nice big strong one. (Williams or Davis) ...problem is, they drafted a bunch last year and might be too pig-headed to draft one here and admit that they didn't get what they expected last April.
If one of the two safeties fell to us....we need at least one S. (Hooker or Adams)
Lattimore the CB or Foster the LB could come in handy for the D.
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No trading the picks. We need to come out of round one with two good players who can contribute NOW. (UNLESS, of course, they draft a QB...in which case he should NOT be expected to contribute NOW)
- If one of the big WR's are available....we need a nice big strong one. (Williams or Davis) ...problem is, they drafted a bunch last year and might be too pig-headed to draft one here and admit that they didn't get what they expected last April.
- I can't spend #12 on a WR... the top is not elite, IMO, but the class is deep... thru Day Two deep. Plus while we cannot count on Josh, even if he sees the field, adding a top WR is probably the easiest thing to do down the road. OJH? He's in my mix at 12.
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@ghoolie said:
Garrett will be a wasted pick. WIth no offense, he will make plays, fatigue and have offenses neutralizing him by week 8. Watch the Alabama fatass LT completely shut this guy down. He's no Bosa. Not even close.
Ghoolie...Bosa got stonewalled quite a bit during his last year in college. I'm NOT saying that if the Browns draft Garrett, he'll have the same year that Bosa did. I think that's crazy, as Bosa had a near historic rookie season. However, I see Garrett providing an instant impact, and maybe more importantly, having a bigger impact on Ogbah. There were SO MANY times last year where Ogbah got really nice pressure on the QB, but since there wasn't any OPPOSING pressure, the QB simply drifted away from Ogbah and either completed a pass or threw it away.
Obviously, there's no way to say if you're right or if I am until the day comes Garrett is drafted and starts to play. Hopefully wearing a Browns' uniform.
Obviously, there's no way to say if you're right or if I am until the day comes Garrett is drafted and starts to play. Hopefully wearing a Browns' uniform.
I like your odds...
The #12 pick is interesting. Unfortunately, it appears to JUST be out of the range for those "elite" level guys. Of course, that's all opinion, but I've heard similar sentiment on our radio show and other reports. Jamal Adams or Malik Hooker would be ideal for us, but nobody believes they'll be there at 12...even with Hooker recovering from two surgeries. Are we desperate enough at safety to try and move up for one? I honestly don't want to use assets to move up from 12, but I do realize that safety is a severe need, and prospects like those two guys don't come around all of the time. If we don't go safety or corner at 12, do we wait until pick 33 and hope the safety from Washington is available? I like the guy, but I'm not sure we can risk it. There's a very real scenario where we miss out on Jamal Adams, Hooker, and Budda Baker from Washington. That would not be good, as I think safety is probably our biggest weakness (and that's saying something). We whiffed on Jefferson and McDonald, so we need to do something.
If we don't trade up from 12, and Adams and Hooker are gone, the pick starts to get tricky. Would I love Corey Davis, Mike Williams, or even O.J. Howard at 12?
Of course, I'll change my mind in 45 minutes, but whatever.
Slowing down in your old age?
Pretty much addressed your points in my reply to Orion's OP so I'll just expand a bit on the Safeties...
Utah's FS, Marcus Williams, looks like a great consolation prize to my eye... and I think he's there at 2.20 (#52 overall) while Josh Jones, NC St's SS, would likely need to be tabbed at 2.01 (#33). He's a slight reach there, given that you have to squint a little harder at his tape to see his value, but it's worth the effort.
And, if you can't squint quite hard enough, then maybe Peppers is there at 33... and with him you get an RB and return man to boot...
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@ghoolie said:
Garrett will be a wasted pick. WIth no offense, he will make plays, fatigue and have offenses neutralizing him by week 8. Watch the Alabama fatass LT completely shut this guy down. He's no Bosa. Not even close.
Uhh garett made some amazing plays in that game ghoolie. But yeah if a huge "fat ass" can crumple his arms up he does get swallowed up. Bosa was a bigger stronger DE so he could do things at the point that garett cant cause he has to explode off the line to convert his speed to power immediately. Bosa could come off the line, stack the OL...then shed at will after reading the play.
So no argument that at this point in their careers bosa was further along as a 4-3 DE prospect. But u cant deny garett has an astounding ceiling potentially. And he's proven to be durable as fuck which is also a big deal.
So if u hate garett who do u want then?
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The #12 pick is interesting. Unfortunately, it appears to JUST be out of the range for those "elite" level guys. Of course, that's all opinion, but I've heard similar sentiment on our radio show and other reports. Jamal Adams or Malik Hooker would be ideal for us, but nobody believes they'll be there at 12...even with Hooker recovering from two surgeries. Are we desperate enough at safety to try and move up for one? I honestly don't want to use assets to move up from 12, but I do realize that safety is a severe need, and prospects like those two guys don't come around all of the time. If we don't go safety or corner at 12, do we wait until pick 33 and hope the safety from Washington is available? I like the guy, but I'm not sure we can risk it. There's a very real scenario where we miss out on Jamal Adams, Hooker, and Budda Baker from Washington. That would not be good, as I think safety is probably our biggest weakness (and that's saying something). We whiffed on Jefferson and McDonald, so we need to do something.
If we don't trade up from 12, and Adams and Hooker are gone, the pick starts to get tricky. Would I love Corey Davis, Mike Williams, or even O.J. Howard at 12? Yeah, I probably would, but drafting a WR or TE there just reminds me of the Pryor debacle, and that makes me angry. Angry that we literally could've been pretty set at on offense if Pryor's agent, or himself, would've just pulled their head from their ass. As much as we need offensive help, I'm leaning towards LB Reuben Foster at 12. I'm thinking Gregg Williams will be good for us, and getting him as much talent as possible could help turn us into something like the Texans. Let's build our defense, offensive line, and running game....see what happens there. I'm not thrilled with the QB class, so why force a first rounder? Or even a second rounder? Let's ride out with Cody Kessler and have Brock Osweiler backing him up. Take somebody like Davis Webb or Joshua Dobbs in the third round, and try to develop them. If we still need our franchise QB next year, which we probably will, we can use some of our resources to move up and grab a guy we like.
Of course, I'll change my mind in 45 minutes, but whatever.
The #12 pick is interesting. Unfortunately, it appears to JUST be out of the range for those "elite" level guys.
Yup. The tea leaves indicate that that could be the case. (damn iggles.....they won too many games because of the QB that we should've had)
If there's nobody interesting left to pick at 12, how do you trade out? Unless someone like Houston wants to trade up for a QB....in which case we'd probably just LOVE to let them have one.
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@ghoolie said:
Garrett will be a wasted pick. WIth no offense, he will make plays, fatigue and have offenses neutralizing him by week 8. Watch the Alabama fatass LT completely shut this guy down. He's no Bosa. Not even close.
Uhh garett made some amazing plays in that game ghoolie. But yeah if a huge "fat ass" can crumple his arms up he does get swallowed up. Bosa was a bigger stronger DE so he could do things at the point that garett cant cause he has to explode off the line to convert his speed to power immediately. Bosa could come off the line, stack the OL...then shed at will after reading the play.
So no argument that at this point in their careers bosa was further along as a 4-3 DE prospect. But u cant deny garett has an astounding ceiling potentially. And he's proven to be durable as fuck which is also a big deal.
So if u hate garett who do u want then?
Trubisky at 1 is what he wants I believeUhh garett made some amazing plays in that game ghoolie. But yeah if a huge "fat ass" can crumple his arms up he does get swallowed up. Bosa was a bigger stronger DE so he could do things at the point that garett cant cause he has to explode off the line to convert his speed to power immediately. Bosa could come off the line, stack the OL...then shed at will after reading the play.
So no argument that at this point in their careers bosa was further along as a 4-3 DE prospect. But u cant deny garett has an astounding ceiling potentially. And he's proven to be durable as fuck which is also a big deal.
So if u hate garett who do u want then?
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12 is a tough pick.....when I look at it, I have 8 guys(outside of Garrett) that I would be game to draft there....so, when you add Garrett, Id like to score 2 out of my top 9.....
Looking at the talent....I see upward of 20 guys who could conceivably be tapped inside that top 12......soooooooooo.....
When 12 comes along, Im hoping to see one or MORE of those 8 there.....if only 1 or 2, I grab em and move on to the next pick....if there are 3-4 there(which I often find in the mocks I do), then I consider a trade back.....example: 3 of my guys are still there at 12, then I consider any trade offers inside of #15....meaning I can move back 3 and still tap one of my top 8.....etc etc etc
But, without knowing how the draft is gonna go, it's impossible to speculate who might be there.....
So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
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i want foster at 12
i want foster at 12
Bingo!! Foster has no news on his Mama transporting him to the 2nd combine medicals
. Foster has had visits with Cards.Bears.Eagles. The KC & Jags are up next. MMQB reported "1 NFL team in top 15 was not into Foster at all even before sent home at Combine" Well we are still in the running for this award 
#raylewisII -
My bet is that Foster goes @ 11 to N.O. so if we want him we need to trade up to 9-10. N.O. needs a dominant player like that in the middle of that sieve.
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12 is a tough pick.....when I look at it, I have 8 guys(outside of Garrett) that I would be game to draft there....so, when you add Garrett, Id like to score 2 out of my top 9.....
Looking at the talent....I see upward of 20 guys who could conceivably be tapped inside that top 12......soooooooooo.....
When 12 comes along, Im hoping to see one or MORE of those 8 there.....if only 1 or 2, I grab em and move on to the next pick....if there are 3-4 there(which I often find in the mocks I do), then I consider a trade back.....example: 3 of my guys are still there at 12, then I consider any trade offers inside of #15....meaning I can move back 3 and still tap one of my top 8.....etc etc etc
But, without knowing how the draft is gonna go, it's impossible to speculate who might be there.....
So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
12 is a tough pick.....when I look at it, I have 8 guys(outside of Garrett) that I would be game to draft there....so, when you add Garrett, Id like to score 2 out of my top 9.....
Looking at the talent....I see upward of 20 guys who could conceivably be tapped inside that top 12......soooooooooo.....
When 12 comes along, Im hoping to see one or MORE of those 8 there.....if only 1 or 2, I grab em and move on to the next pick....if there are 3-4 there(which I often find in the mocks I do), then I consider a trade back.....example: 3 of my guys are still there at 12, then I consider any trade offers inside of #15....meaning I can move back 3 and still tap one of my top 8.....etc etc etc
But, without knowing how the draft is gonna go, it's impossible to speculate who might be there.....
So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
I like your last sentence, and I'll also add Corey Davis to the end of it. There's been speculation that we're very high on Davis, and our radio boys mentioned yesterday that he's a growing possibility mentioned around league sources. You want some good news about #12? Every year things shake out differently than people expect (mainly due to the inexact nature and unpredictability of trades), so there's reason to believe at least ONE of the guys you mentioned will slip to us at 12. Another reason one of those guys will slip to us? Quarterbacks. Forget what everyone is saying about the QB class being weak, and maybe only two QB's being selected in the first round. The NFL is such a QB driven league, and there are so many teams desperate enough for a QB, that SOMEONE will take at LEAST one QB people don't expect in the top ten. There will be a trade into top ten, or a team will flat out draft a guy because teams need QB's. Remember that year when Blake Bortles was drafted so early, and many analysts predicted that there wouldn't be a QB taken that early? Something like that will happen this year, I can almost promise. Teams will panic and overdraft their QB...happens all of the time. I seriously think that one of the guys we mentioned will be there for us, Mud. I doubt it's Howard, and it won't be either of the safeties, but possibly Foster due to injury concerns and his latest allegation of acting like an asshole.
I honestly think we NEED a potential offensive playmaker at 12 because the loss of Pryor is that devastating, but I wouldn't be opposed to going defense-defense. Reuben Foster, Kirksey, and Collins as your linebackers is potentially dominant for years to come, and you still have Garrett and Ogbah as your ends, and Shelton and Desmond Bryant starting inside. All of the sudden we have the beginning of a defense we can be PROUD of...remember that? Something else to consider, although I REALLY don't see it happening, is considering Jonathan Allen at #12. Before you laugh me off the thread, the latest sentiment appears to be Allen sliding away from the top 10. Maybe because of the shoulder concerns, maybe because he didn't test as well, but I've definitely been seeing a trend that shows Allen sliding. AGAIN....I DON'T see it happening, as Allen's production and skill level is just too pervasive, but...every year a guy slides a bit more than people think because teams overdraft QB's. Being at pick #12...we could be the beneficiary of that phenomenon.
EDIT: The mock draft on this link is interesting as well. Something else to consider is the unpredictability of drafting running backs. This year we have three of the absolute best RB's I've seen in years...and possibly the best group of RB's in decades. Leonard Fournette, Dalvin Cook, and Joe Mixon are the top three, and many people believe that Mixon is actually the best talent out of ALL of them, but his nightmarish domestic incident makes him near impossible to draft in the top ten. That being said, I've seen Fournette and Cook ALL OVER the place, with some mocks having BOTH going top ten, and other mocks having Fournette actually sliding OUT of the first round! Now, I think that's ridiculous, but whatever. Fournette is 240 pounds and ran a 4.5 40. Cook, my FSU boy, needs no introduction. Pay no attention to his 40 times, his shuttle times, or his vertical leap. The kid benched 225 pounds 22 times and had more game-breaking long runs than almost anyone I can remember watching. The combination of these elite running backs and teams overdrafting quarterbacks will result in ONE of the guys we want falling to us at #12. I know it. We're getting Myles Garrett, and some other stud at 12. Wanna know who we're getting at #33? Try Joe Mixon. Then with Titans' 2nd rounder, we'll go safety or corner. Below is the mock I mentioned.
If you don't want to click on the link, it has the Browns picking Myles Garrett, OJ Howard, Cam Robinson, and Davis Webb in first two rounds. I'm ok with all the picks, but would rather pick our QB in round 3 if we think we can get our guy there. Not sure Webb needs to be taken that early. Even so, our first four picks give us the best pass rusher, the best tight end, possible best OT, and our potential future QB. That's....pretty effing efficient.
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12 is a tough pick.....when I look at it, I have 8 guys(outside of Garrett) that I would be game to draft there....so, when you add Garrett, Id like to score 2 out of my top 9.....
Looking at the talent....I see upward of 20 guys who could conceivably be tapped inside that top 12......soooooooooo.....
When 12 comes along, Im hoping to see one or MORE of those 8 there.....if only 1 or 2, I grab em and move on to the next pick....if there are 3-4 there(which I often find in the mocks I do), then I consider a trade back.....example: 3 of my guys are still there at 12, then I consider any trade offers inside of #15....meaning I can move back 3 and still tap one of my top 8.....etc etc etc
But, without knowing how the draft is gonna go, it's impossible to speculate who might be there.....
So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
And some team is, or teams are, going to "reach" for one of those RBs. Ditto for QB... Double ditto for WR...
That's how one of my "impact players" falls to 12.So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
The remainder of the list are a simple combo of talent as I see it and the gap in quality of the consolation prizes I see in Round 2.
If any of the names from Adams thru Hooker are there at 12, then I sprint to the podium with my pick. If Reddick is the only one there, then I at least answer the phone to see who is offering what. I really like Reddick. I see Clay Sr. ability in him, but the need at OLB is less.
I can't put a WR in the mix at 12. Too many options in a deep WR class. Too easy to add a WR "down the road" if we find the position wanting after this season.
(damn iggles.....they won too many games because of the QB that we should've had)
That there is the kind of circular set up Kirk used to blow up Nomad... "Must sterilize!"
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And some team is, or teams are, going to "reach" for one of those RBs. Ditto for QB... Double ditto for WR...
That's how one of my "impact players" falls to 12.So, in addition to Garrett at 1, Id like one of the following at 12......(in this order).....Adams, Hooker, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, foster, Williams.....
Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
The remainder of the list are a simple combo of talent as I see it and the gap in quality of the consolation prizes I see in Round 2.
If any of the names from Adams thru Hooker are there at 12, then I sprint to the podium with my pick. If Reddick is the only one there, then I at least answer the phone to see who is offering what. I really like Reddick. I see Clay Sr. ability in him, but the need at OLB is less.
I can't put a WR in the mix at 12. Too many options in a deep WR class. Too easy to add a WR "down the road" if we find the position wanting after this season.
(damn iggles.....they won too many games because of the QB that we should've had)
That there is the kind of circular set up Kirk used to blow up Nomad... "Must sterilize!"
Same thought process... different ordering of players...
My list goes: Adams, Foster, Lattimore, Thomas, Howard, Allen, Hooker, Reddick
Adams and Foster are one-two for a couple reasons. First... they are thumpers. They'd instantly inject "attytude" and physicality into our D. Second, they're leaders. Not sure who has that role on our Defense ATM. And MG does not seem to be primed for that role. Add either and that question no longer exists.
Really tough choice on the order of preference, but I've got to go with Allen in the front 4 first because he is stout enough to stack the center and stop the inside runs as well as put pressure up the middle on QB's. Garrett, Allen, Danny, Ogbah. with our current LB's behind them That gets near Denver Superbowl level D almost overnight. Similar reason I put Thomas second if Allen is gone. Again a guy who can stack the middle and get after the QB. Foster is my #3. Guy is an absolute fast, quick to diagnose plays hitting machine who runs through his tackles so hard people don't won't to come that way again. Adams 4 only because the safety position is deep in quality and someone is still there at 33 or 52. Then Howard.
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Anything but a QB
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O.J. Howard in NFL Draft 2017: 5 reasons the Browns should pick him
http://www.cleveland.com/nfl-draft/index.ssf/2017/04/oj_howard_innfl_draft_20175_re.html1. Mismatch for opponents
2. Big play ability
3. Capable blocker
4. Cost savings
5. Good in short yardage
============================================================================
No real surprises, although #4 is a tad cold-blooded. Does seem like they struggled to come up with a 5th reason.
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#3 is an understatement
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