Biggest Areas of Concern
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+1... Jimmy has:
- opened his wallet...
- endorsed a new FO approach...
- apparently played no role in our draft... and
- pretty much disappeared from media.
Will it all add up to success? Stay tuned... but it's a refreshing change from his first years.
1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
Mud,
You're my friend, but I'm beginning to think you should change your name to "Negative Nellie" or "Dead horse beater".
You're better than that. Move on from the past.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
Mud,
You're my friend, but I'm beginning to think you should change your name to "Negative Nellie" or "Dead horse beater".
You're better than that. Move on from the past.
Mike
Mud,
You're my friend, but I'm beginning to think you should change your name to "Negative Nellie" or "Dead horse beater".
You're better than that. Move on from the past.
Mike
I think Mud is just calling 'em as he sees 'em.
We'll move on from the past (bitching about them losing all the time).
As soon as they move on from losing all the time.
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1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
Mud,
You're my friend, but I'm beginning to think you should change your name to "Negative Nellie" or "Dead horse beater".
You're better than that. Move on from the past.
Mike
I'm beginning to think you should change your name to "Negative Nellie" or "Dead horse beater".
You're better than that. Move on from the past.
Mike
Come on Old Leghumper
Every old 2008 topic needed a good beaten the old horse scene.we could not load good pics like that back then ..Mud? Oz sent out Flying Monkey's. We are graced with the Flying Mudman. He may only last 20 minutes in here, but he brings his misery to all the Scarecrows & FLY's FLY FLY's back to his Emerald City.. 
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I'm beginning to think you should change your name to "Negative Nellie" or "Dead horse beater".
You're better than that. Move on from the past.
Mike
Come on Old Leghumper
Every old 2008 topic needed a good beaten the old horse scene.we could not load good pics like that back then ..Mud? Oz sent out Flying Monkey's. We are graced with the Flying Mudman. He may only last 20 minutes in here, but he brings his misery to all the Scarecrows & FLY's FLY FLY's back to his Emerald City.. Come on Old Leghumper
Every old 2008 topic needed a good beaten the old horse scene.we could not load good pics like that back then ..Mud? Oz sent out Flying Monkey's. We are graced with the Flying Mudman. He may only last 20 minutes in here, but he brings his misery to all the Scarecrows & FLY's FLY FLY's back to his Emerald City.. LMAO!
Mike
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I don't get this, Owner seems to be staying out of the way...
+1... Jimmy has:
- opened his wallet...
- endorsed a new FO approach...
- apparently played no role in our draft... and
- pretty much disappeared from media.
Will it all add up to success? Stay tuned... but it's a refreshing change from his first years.
We couldn't "fix" every position in one offseason
Perfect lead in for my #1 concern... Fan patience.
.Perfect lead in for my #1 concern... Fan patience.
A worthy concern....the main reason being that many life long fans have run out of patience.....in large part, due to this owner and his lack of patience......So, which came first?.....Jimmahs or ours?
. Some of you folks need to take the blinders off & look at what THIS FO, Coaching staff, & Ownership has done far different (and better) from previous regimes. Certainly, they're not perfect, but I see far more light than darkness at the end of the tunnel now.
Mike
Mike....(in my nicest possible written voice)
........some of us dont have the die hard fan blinders on, thats all....Without those blinders, we can see that ownership and this coaching staff havent done anything great yet......in fact, to me, it looks a lot the same......sorry, but after 40 years of blind love, Ive reverted to tough love......you gotta do what you gotta do and what I can no longer do is blindly hope things will turn around.....been waiting too long and see WAY too many repeat pig headed decisions to think this team is fast tracking to success....Yes....on paper, this draft looks better than the last draft....but thats all I got......dont like the owner(any more), but was a huge advocate for him, when he came on board....he has earned my distain......
Cant say I was ever excited about Hue or his staff(most of which got fired after year one....so I was right on there).....
And was not excited for a Lawyer and baseball penny pincher taking over our FO....and, to date, still feel that way.....Ive been waiting for them to get me excited(again) about the Browns, and they have not done enough to do so.....
Mud,
You're my friend, but I'm beginning to think you should change your name to "Negative Nellie" or "Dead horse beater".
You're better than that. Move on from the past.
Mike
Im not in the past Mike.....I comment on right now stuff....I dont start threads anymore(have 100% stopped)....I come here EVERYDAY, but usually just quietly read and then go away.....why?......because I cant get excited about what I see(the Browns brole my spirit....wasnt my choice).....and Ive chosen to "try" to button my lip, rather than be a negative nellie all day every day.....and not participating isnt a choice I like.....I love the Browns.....I love talking Browns.....I miss the Browns.....THAT is why Im still here.....(please note how dead the board is, compared to the (past)....Thats because of Jimmah and his reign of terror......
Usually, when I post, it is in reply to something I see that seems ridiculous.....over the top optimism thats unrealistic....And it's rare that my comments are wrong....more often, just not what you want to hear.....and since they have teeth, they sink a touch deeper....
So....in my view....Im being the realist, while many here are just following the old "hope" formula(which Ive moved on from).....and then I get blasted for speaking MY truth, whilst others are applauded for wishful thinking.....
I respond to things like Tours post above....basically praising Jimmy and saying things I dont agree with....why can I not point to my view on the topic? .....another example?.....How about the constant comments from Cal saying this FO ONLY picks great players with great attitudes and no more of those loser types, while we select Payton (busted for PEDS year one).....we select Brantley, who hits women and is declared a slacker in week one.....or Peppers, who failed his drug test and is now dragging his feet on signing, while everyone else is in???......I hear how we killed in last years draft, yet only see one? really good player and 13 who didnt impress(no blinders there).....Listen...I dont hate these guys OR the Browns for picking them.....but I DO hate constantly hearing how the Browns are now above making these errors, when it's right there in our face......so, lets be clear, I dont come here and start threads slamming these moves, but I do respond to those who deny them.....its my job....
So, here's a straight up question for you, that I would like an honest answer to......when you tell me to move on....what am I supposed to do?......multiple choice......which answer is best????
A- Give up on the Browns and this board, all together, and just move on?....(cause I dont want to do that)
B- Pretend I like things that I dont like and act like I think things are great?.....(cause I CANT do that)
C- Create fake praise and excitement for moves, players and hires I dont think deserve it?
D- Just say it like I see it....even if you dont like it?.....(personally, I think Ive been much more balanced lately)
I choose D......how about you?
Mike....look at it this way.....your favorite phrase is "dont know - well see".....correct?......Im subscribing to the same....which means I can ONLY comment on what Ive SEEN, not what I wish for or hope is coming.....I comment on what is obvious, not what "might be someday"....so, if I have to wait to see, yet cannot comment on what has transpired over the past year(or years), then WHAT can I comment on?....
I think Mud is just calling 'em as he sees 'em.
We'll move on from the past (bitching about them losing all the time).
As soon as they move on from losing all the time.
nailed it!.....thanks for getting it Orion
Heck....Ive even praised several things Ive seen lately......folks keep missing that.....
Mud? Oz sent out Flying Monkey's. We are graced with the Flying Mudman. He may only last 20 minutes in here, but he brings his misery to all the Scarecrows & FLY's FLY FLY's back to his Emerald City..
Not a word from me about 2008 or any past horse beatings.....only about 2016-17....right now.......
Hey....if Jimmy was a horse, Id beat him.....but thats about it......
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+1... Jimmy has:
- opened his wallet...
- endorsed a new FO approach...
- apparently played no role in our draft... and
- pretty much disappeared from media.
Will it all add up to success? Stay tuned... but it's a refreshing change from his first years.
1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
- Yes... "opened". Opened for Collins... opened for Hughlett... opened for Zeitler... opened for Tretter... opened for Bito... for Britt... for Kirksey... for three, first-round, draft picks... and most of all, for a 2018 2nd-round pick with a QB attached to it. It's a change. As for DePo... we'd better hope he's damn good at uncovering "CHEAP talent" because if we've hit on our 1st-rounders for a change, continue to retain developed talent and add key FAs, and add a franchise QB to the mix, be he already on our roster or not, then we are going to need a lot of cheap talent, or as I prefer to call them.... high value talent, to sustain success.
- Endorsing your hires... what a concept. Has anyone, in any business ever introduced a key hire as "probably not in our long-term plans, but the best we could find at the time"?
- Of course... Can we also agree that he may have learned his lesson? Perhaps from his earliest hire to still be around, Sashi?
- Shame? Probably a piece of the reason, but again learning from past mistakes is as or more likely... and the two are not mutually exclusive. Should we become relevant again I won't have an issue with him crowing. Should we actually rise to the top, I'll crow for him. When you're at the top of any organization you deserve the lion's share of the credit for success or blame for failure as you set the tone for that organization.
Mud,
You're my friend, but I'm beginning to think you should change your name to "Negative Nellie" or "Dead horse beater".
You're better than that. Move on from the past.
Mud's a friend to all... well most all...
He's a broker of honest disagreements and no one should have a problem with that. Additionally he researchers his arguments as well as anyone on this board, but... here we are dealing with a future projection. Until we collectively see that future no one has reason to change their tune.For my part it's no secret that I believe I have "seen" this turn coming since the last FO reorg. It's no secret that "seeing the turn" is a projection at this point. Same data... different experiential takes.
A worthy concern....the main reason being that many life long fans have run out of patience.....in large part, due to this owner and his lack of patience......So, which came first?.....Jimmahs or ours?
Ours... we've had a lot more practice.
Jimmah floundered early... no doubt about it... and that was even with the league recommending "help" in the form of football guy, Lombo, who pursued Chip Kelly as other HC talent landed jobs. Does anyone still think Chud should have been given a second season? One, quick-purge later it was Farmer and Pet to the rescue... may have been half right with that duo, but they were joined at the hip... and an HC upgrade was available.
But now I think he's found his FO "guy". That he's a process guy and not a football guy bothers me not, in fact, it is the source of my optimism. It's New School Management... something with which you've posted your discomfort in the past.
And was not excited for a Lawyer and baseball penny pincher taking over our FO....and, to date, still feel that way.....Ive been waiting for them to get me excited(again) about the Browns, and they have not done enough to do so.....
... and they have had a whole year to do so... Worthless Bastards! The lot of 'em...
I respond to things like Tours post above....basically praising Jimmy and saying things I dont agree with....why can I not point to my view on the topic?
And I'm glad you do...
D- Just say it like I see it....even if you dont like it?.....(personally, I think Ive been much more balanced lately)
I choose D......how about you?
I choose "D" as well... all the time. Just means we see at least some things differently... and that's what makes a forum...
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Biggest area of concern is that the team has no playmakers. Crowell is as close as we get.
I also hate how they handled the Pryor contract. There was room for him on this team even after Britt was signed (which is an argument that sounds like sarcasm to me, but it's one that's been made way too often) and little justification in not making the play. His contract was cheap, short-term and the Browns have both the money and the need. Pryor and Schwartz seemed like decisions that put pride ahead of team.
On the other side, biggest area of optimism (to me) is line play. If healthy, is there any reason this team can't sport top ten lines in both offence AND defence this season? And I thought they played the draft smart this year. Much better execution. Didn't like the trade down in the first round, but coming back up to get Njoku and then letting Kizer fall to them was enviable. Draft like this again next season (but this time with offensive playmakers) and the turnaround will be both quick and sustained.
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+1... Jimmy has:
- opened his wallet...
- endorsed a new FO approach...
- apparently played no role in our draft... and
- pretty much disappeared from media.
Will it all add up to success? Stay tuned... but it's a refreshing change from his first years.
1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
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1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).
But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.
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1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).
But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.
I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).
But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.
I mean ya I agree with that statement my point was that we are looking towards the future and may very well be putting are selves in a position to spend wisely and be successful in the future also over spending in the f.a market usually spells doom
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1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).
But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.
I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive. Yeah, he's spent money on some good players (finally).
But the second-lowest payroll in the NFL is undeniably a point in Mud's favour. I certainly wouldn't call it an "open wallet" when there are 30 teams out-spending you.
Quantity != quality
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1) open wallet?......cmon Tour, he hired the money ball guy(Depo) who fame comes from finding CHEAP talent.....and we have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league.....2nd most UNSPENT cap space......I dont see the open wallet here...
2) He's a pro at "endorsing" new people....in fact, he's endorsed 3 new FO's and 4 new HC's in LESS than 5 years.....
3) Yay!......so we can agree he screwed the last FO (or 2?) by meddling.....
4) Of course he's disappeared......(he's ashamed).....we wont see his pompous ass again (till we start winning)....then he will be there in all his glory.....promise!
1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
Well, I whole heartedly disagree......lets look at this "right way", that you speak of.....
1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....
2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....
Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........
Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....
So....in a nutshell.....I dont see smart money being spent....I see guys like Britt, Taylor, Tretter, Davis....all WAY overpaid and not really guys who will elevate this team.....at all......and one good OL signing that adds depth, but does not cure a serious issue.....and a linebacker that I love, but we paid twice for.......and, all this took 2 years and is way too little to make much difference.
I woulda done most of this shit last year(and more), then added more to the mix this year.....had we accomplished just a few key signings then, we could be so much further ahead than we are.....and, in re to value, these guys aren't really good signings....
Tour and Couch gave me some good feedback, which I understand and accept to a degree, but I stand behind my comments that most of these guys are second and third tier players and being paid like they've accomplished much more than they really have...
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1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
Well, I whole heartedly disagree......lets look at this "right way", that you speak of.....
1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....
2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....
Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........
Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....
So....in a nutshell.....I dont see smart money being spent....I see guys like Britt, Taylor, Tretter, Davis....all WAY overpaid and not really guys who will elevate this team.....at all......and one good OL signing that adds depth, but does not cure a serious issue.....and a linebacker that I love, but we paid twice for.......and, all this took 2 years and is way too little to make much difference.
I woulda done most of this shit last year(and more), then added more to the mix this year.....had we accomplished just a few key signings then, we could be so much further ahead than we are.....and, in re to value, these guys aren't really good signings....
Tour and Couch gave me some good feedback, which I understand and accept to a degree, but I stand behind my comments that most of these guys are second and third tier players and being paid like they've accomplished much more than they really have...
Well, I whole heartedly disagree......lets look at this "right way", that you speak of.....
1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....
2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....
Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........
Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....
So....in a nutshell.....I dont see smart money being spent....I see guys like Britt, Taylor, Tretter, Davis....all WAY overpaid and not really guys who will elevate this team.....at all......and one good OL signing that adds depth, but does not cure a serious issue.....and a linebacker that I love, but we paid twice for.......and, all this took 2 years and is way too little to make much difference.
I woulda done most of this shit last year(and more), then added more to the mix this year.....had we accomplished just a few key signings then, we could be so much further ahead than we are.....and, in re to value, these guys aren't really good signings....
Tour and Couch gave me some good feedback, which I understand and accept to a degree, but I stand behind my comments that most of these guys are second and third tier players and being paid like they've accomplished much more than they really have...
Collins would have wanted huge money regardless who he played for and we just gave up a comp pick for him ,money not well spent ?
zeitler and Greco damn good depth if you ask me also still well under the cap
Tretter hopefully he left his injuries behind but yes I agree that is a concern
also it's not like f.a's are knocking down are door to play here ,we have to overpay,but hey maybe you liked that andre rison signing
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1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....Eyore Mud
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enough already. I believe if the Browns HADN'T signed Collins, and he signed elsewhere, you would be
po'd that the Browns don't care about winning, wouldn't pay up for good talent, etc...etc...etc.
it's one thing to be disappointed, as in, most of us obviously have been. But the hell bent negative nonsense
is baloney. The history, sure. Bad/wrong coaches, sure. But the bitching is an end to itself it seems....
like "look at me, by dang, I'm freaking out because the Browns still haven't gotten to the superbowl"
The extremely positive direction the Browns are taking now...is being totally ignored out of spite.
The dismal history isn't going to change, dammit, why bring it up just because you can? I don't get it.
The Browns' losing seasons in the past, I'm pretty sure, are NOBODY'S FAULT on this board.
Therefore, it would seem that bitching should be sent to the Browns'... if you can find yourself a
time machine that would take you back...
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1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....Eyore Mud
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enough already. I believe if the Browns HADN'T signed Collins, and he signed elsewhere, you would be
po'd that the Browns don't care about winning, wouldn't pay up for good talent, etc...etc...etc.
it's one thing to be disappointed, as in, most of us obviously have been. But the hell bent negative nonsense
is baloney. The history, sure. Bad/wrong coaches, sure. But the bitching is an end to itself it seems....
like "look at me, by dang, I'm freaking out because the Browns still haven't gotten to the superbowl"
The extremely positive direction the Browns are taking now...is being totally ignored out of spite.
The dismal history isn't going to change, dammit, why bring it up just because you can? I don't get it.
The Browns' losing seasons in the past, I'm pretty sure, are NOBODY'S FAULT on this board.
Therefore, it would seem that bitching should be sent to the Browns'... if you can find yourself a
time machine that would take you back...
enough already. I believe if the Browns HADN'T signed Collins, and he signed elsewhere, you would be
po'd that the Browns don't care about winning, wouldn't pay up for good talent, etc...etc...etc.
I said....many many times....that Im glad they signed him.....and, yes, I woulda bitched if they hadnt......read what I was replying to for context....
it's one thing to be disappointed, as in, most of us obviously have been. But the hell bent negative nonsense
is baloney.
Im not disappointed...Im pissed.....YOU are disappointed because you have unrealistic expectations and go on and on about great things that arent real...
The history, sure. Bad/wrong coaches, sure. But the bitching is an end to itself it seems....
like "look at me, by dang, I'm freaking out because the Browns still haven't gotten to the superbowl"
Superbowl??!!??......you realize we won only one game....right?......Im pissed cause my team is the worst it's EVER been.....open your eyes. If it doesnt bother you to lose 15 outta 16, then thats your problem......and if you think thats an extremely positive direction, then you're crazy...
The extremely positive direction the Browns are taking now...is being totally ignored out of spite.
I dont see anything that is extremely positive......hahahaha.....extremely.....hAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAHAHAHA
The dismal history isn't going to change, dammit, why bring it up just because you can?
I know it's not gonna change...hence - Im pissed.....and in re to the history....Im not bringing it up. 1) Im replying to others 2) Im talking about THIS year.....can you read?
I don't get it.
Clearly.....
The Browns' losing seasons in the past, I'm pretty sure, are NOBODY'S FAULT on this board.
Correct....I know it/s not my fault.....so why ya bitching at me?.......and the "losing seasons" are NOT in the past....the worst ever losing season just happened....2016.....
Therefore, it would seem that bitching should be sent to the Browns'... if you can find yourself a
time machine that would take you back...
Im talking Browns Cal.....whether you like my view or not.....you offer some of the most ridiculous crap here. At least there's is basis for what I say and I spell it out with facts....while Im forced to read your baseless posts on how GREAT the last 2 drafts were,.... how great we were gonna be last year.....how we no longer draft problems....blah blah blah....when the truth is right there for all to see.......
Last season you told me the same things....told me to chill and watch this team gel.....told me Hue would make this team 4 wins better, just because he's Hue....etc etc etc.....EVERYTHING you said was wrong.....and everything I said wasnt......it's not spite, it's what I see.....
Ima guess you've missed every positive point Ive made(not too many great things to talk about, so they're easy to miss)......
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Well, I whole heartedly disagree......lets look at this "right way", that you speak of.....
1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....
2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....
Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........
Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....
So....in a nutshell.....I dont see smart money being spent....I see guys like Britt, Taylor, Tretter, Davis....all WAY overpaid and not really guys who will elevate this team.....at all......and one good OL signing that adds depth, but does not cure a serious issue.....and a linebacker that I love, but we paid twice for.......and, all this took 2 years and is way too little to make much difference.
I woulda done most of this shit last year(and more), then added more to the mix this year.....had we accomplished just a few key signings then, we could be so much further ahead than we are.....and, in re to value, these guys aren't really good signings....
Tour and Couch gave me some good feedback, which I understand and accept to a degree, but I stand behind my comments that most of these guys are second and third tier players and being paid like they've accomplished much more than they really have...
Collins would have wanted huge money regardless who he played for and we just gave up a comp pick for him ,money not well spent ?
zeitler and Greco damn good depth if you ask me also still well under the cap
Tretter hopefully he left his injuries behind but yes I agree that is a concern
also it's not like f.a's are knocking down are door to play here ,we have to overpay,but hey maybe you liked that andre rison signing
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1) he is spending his money in the right way in F.A(wouldn't call Collins and those two linemen cheap talent) also paid to extend bitiono and here is hoping for once that we will keep are cap money to resign are own players and as I see it all points point towards that
Well, I whole heartedly disagree......lets look at this "right way", that you speak of.....
1) Collins.....yes, he's a good player and Im happy to have signed him. BUT, we traded a 3rd to get this guy for 8 games, so it's not as if they just went out and signed a guy....they paid a lot, then HAD to secure him, less they have egg on their face....
2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....
Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........
Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....
So....in a nutshell.....I dont see smart money being spent....I see guys like Britt, Taylor, Tretter, Davis....all WAY overpaid and not really guys who will elevate this team.....at all......and one good OL signing that adds depth, but does not cure a serious issue.....and a linebacker that I love, but we paid twice for.......and, all this took 2 years and is way too little to make much difference.
I woulda done most of this shit last year(and more), then added more to the mix this year.....had we accomplished just a few key signings then, we could be so much further ahead than we are.....and, in re to value, these guys aren't really good signings....
Tour and Couch gave me some good feedback, which I understand and accept to a degree, but I stand behind my comments that most of these guys are second and third tier players and being paid like they've accomplished much more than they really have...
2) the 2 o line men we signed?.....definitely not cheap.....so, lets evaluate those 2 decisions.....
Tretter....our new "starting" center.....have you studied this guy?.....he's getting 5m a year, plus......are you aware that he's started only10 games in his entire 4 year career?....are you aware he missed his entire rookie season injured.....missed 8 games his sophmore season......road the bench his 3rd year(started 3 games as an injury replacement)....then, year 4, finally started a few, only to get hurt and miss another 9 games?.......so, he has basically missed the better part of 3 out of 4 years in the league, with multiple injuries.....and has never "earned" a starting job?.....and we have signed him for $5m and expect him to be our saviour at center?.....a ridiculous assumption if yer asking me........
Kevin Zeitler.....Ok, this guy is good and happy to have him on my team.....BUT, after watching 2 years of laughable OL play at CENTER and RIGHT TACKLE, my question is "why is right guard the position we sign a big dollar guy for?"......I know Greco has an injury to recover from, but seriously question the priorities of our FO, when they are signing talent to replace some of our decent talent, whilst ignoring positions we are desperate to fill.....
Good post Mud..Yes there is some doubt on Tretter but most will evaluate on "when healthy". No matter how hard we squint,Cam Irving failed his live HueJax 1 yr. evaluation. After Tretter, they went after Marcus Martin a FA from 9'ers. Martin is a young 23 year old from USC that plays Center & LG. Reiter will have his hands full with Martin to back-up Tretter..Irving is to back-up S. Coleman at RT? I don't see that one either with drafted rookie R.Johnson,Fabiano or McCants..maybe till or if Greco returns from PuP. Irving is squarely sitting on the bubble.. some deep pockets for some OL depth..no doubt..but a good competitive OL position battle at each position of the Oline is a damn good thing to have after what we watched last season.66 sacks..If we know Gregg Williams at camp? He's coming right at them
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Im not disappointed...Im pissed.....YOU are disappointed because you have unrealistic expectations and go on and on about great things that arent real... Mudly
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Well, you may as well scratch your mad mud place and get glad. Whining isn't going to help anything,
so why dwell on the negatives? Bitch, bitch, bitch fest contest.
And no, I never said they were going to be great - I just saw some talent coming in that was going to help make
for a solid locker room, and eventually a winning team. I'm not disappointed at all - where we are now, is far and away
superior to where we used to be.
There were a lot of reasons for the record last year. But to say it's the worst team ever is bs. I remember Browns teams
when they got hammered by a huge margin in points, couldn't compete, got run over.
Last year, sure, the Browns had major weaknesses - you can only upgrade the roster a bit in two drafts. What I see,
is a complete excellent upgrade in their drafting criteria. That has been the problem with the Browns - stupid picks =
great athlete - poor character/poor work ethic/poor attitude/poor addition to the locker room and community...
what you end up with, is a mess that doesn't compete against teams that draft consistently and smartly.
The new drafting/signing criteria is going to build the Browns to be competitive year after year. The few times the Browns had
a winning season, they fell apart in the years afterwards.
The old verse about not building on weak and shifting sands? Well, the Browns had, for years. Now, they have a solid
foundation. And you can shove the old "you said the Browns were going to be great last year and ...." that's baloney.
Turnaround in talent/drafting criteria = future winning/very competitive team. This defense is going to be exciting to watch.
Qb/WR makes it tough to predict great things yet from the offense consistently, but we'll see.
It's a long trail. You go ahead and sit down in some poison ivy and cry croc tears and whine, I"m going to keep right on
hiking the right trail, knowing I'm eventually going to find a nice creek, or a pond, rescue, a gold mine...
and all you got is scratch. Have a nice day for a change, Mudly.
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