Biggest Areas of Concern

calfoxwc

But Mud's got you in the corner on all the stuff about character. Just admit you were wrong about that. Warply

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Actually, you're wrong. Because he brought up Coleman? It isn't all or nothing - it's tough enough to draft

guys who step in and work out without adding laziness, dope use in the past (like gordon, jm's drinking...) and

ignore red flags, including guys who don't love the game. Coleman isn't arrested for the actions of his brother...

come on. Crap happens. Coleman never had a broken bone in college... gets a fracture in the NFL.

For instance:

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/26/browns-wr-coach-al-saunders-still-upbeat-on-corey-coleman/

And questioning what I said about fixing the Browns' offensive line. Seriously? According to pro football focus...

the Browns now have the #2 offensive line in football.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/06/browns_offensive_line_is_one_o.html

that's pretty freaking FIXED to me...the same place had the Browns' offensive line as 21st last year.....

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/browns-offensive-line-ranked-21st-234125526.html

Even the wr group, which is obviously a question... may very well surprise, I don't know...

but all the the wailing and bashing about Louis is misplaced maybe:

https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-see-improvement-2016-fourth-065351189.html

I've HOPED and looked forward to improvement... before. Like, most years. But this year,

after the past two drafts etc.... I see a dramatic turnaround in the talent level, the coaching (especially

adding Williams to the defense - he's wildly popular with the players), the FO...

I just refuse to attribute the past miserable years to the current Browns coaches and fo and players. No delusion,

but watching the whole picture develop...I'm pretty excited to look forward to this season.

VikingDawg

Wait, what? Someone is actually trying to debate character in regards to Hue "Straight outa Compton" Jackasses roster? The entire fucking squad is full of lazy low character red flagged motherfuckers. Josh "We can't afford to part with him" Gordon, lazy crybaby Asswhiper, Corinna Colewoman, Miley "pillow soft" Garrett, Jabrill Purple Drank4:20, the woman beater they drafted, Art "Rape is okay" Briles, scumbag Gregg Williams ect....

If there is one thing Jackasses Browns lack, besides talent is character.

wargograw

@calfoxwc said:

But Mud's got you in the corner on all the stuff about character. Just admit you were wrong about that. Warply

****************************************************************************

Actually, you're wrong. Because he brought up Coleman? It isn't all or nothing - it's tough enough to draft

guys who step in and work out without adding laziness, dope use in the past (like gordon, jm's drinking...) and

ignore red flags, including guys who don't love the game. Coleman isn't arrested for the actions of his brother...

come on. Crap happens. Coleman never had a broken bone in college... gets a fracture in the NFL.

For instance:

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/26/browns-wr-coach-al-saunders-still-upbeat-on-corey-coleman/

And questioning what I said about fixing the Browns' offensive line. Seriously? According to pro football focus...

the Browns now have the #2 offensive line in football.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/06/browns_offensive_line_is_one_o.html

that's pretty freaking FIXED to me...the same place had the Browns' offensive line as 21st last year.....

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/browns-offensive-line-ranked-21st-234125526.html

Even the wr group, which is obviously a question... may very well surprise, I don't know...

but all the the wailing and bashing about Louis is misplaced maybe:

https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-see-improvement-2016-fourth-065351189.html

I've HOPED and looked forward to improvement... before. Like, most years. But this year,

after the past two drafts etc.... I see a dramatic turnaround in the talent level, the coaching (especially

adding Williams to the defense - he's wildly popular with the players), the FO...

I just refuse to attribute the past miserable years to the current Browns coaches and fo and players. No delusion,

but watching the whole picture develop...I'm pretty excited to look forward to this season.

I didn't say anything about the OL or receivers. But this FO has not shied away from taking problem kids. That's a fact at this point.

TexasAg1969

@mudfly said:
Only thing I ever quit, was my early retirement....

When you finally need help with that just come see Uncle Billy in Texas.

The Gipper

@ghoolie said:

Point of Parliamentary Procedure............... I am not saying we don't take guys WE think can light it up.......... I am saying we don't take the guys EVERYONE ELSE think can light it up. Jim Brown called Trent Richardson very average....before the guy ever signed his contract. Nobody in the NFL thought Manziel wa going to light it up. Had the Browns not taken him, he would have fallen far into the second or even third round. Same thing with Brady Quinn. Nobody wanted him. The Browns continue to take the second and third teir guys..........using ass fuck fans, like FLugel who will spew out all kinds of meaningless statistics to maintain that we DO take top prospect.

Well...I think you are wrong about this. In all the instances you cite, these players may have fallen only a very few picks. They WERE all highly rated by everyone...its just that they did not work out. TR was rated a top 5-10 player (nothwithstanding JB's correct opinion of him). JFF was slated for the first round...as was Quinn. (On draft day Quinn was one of these guys that the commentators were saying "why is he dropping so far".....a lot of people had him as a possible Top 10 draft pick) They all were duds...but they were all drafted about where they were expected to go...or even lower. That was not the issue. It is how badly they sucked once they got here that is the issue.

As another poster posted to this response of yours....to paraphrase, it doesn't make a difference if Wentz, Trubisky, or Lynch pan put.........that isn't the lesson.................... the point is...............these kinds of guys are desirable and get snapped up when teams like the Browns pass and leave the path open. The Trubisky pass will haunt this franchise for many years to come.

Probably not. Unlike say, passing on BR....MT did not go to a division rival...or even a conference rival. It may be that MT turns out great...and there may be some regret on the part of Browns fan....but a guy that the Browns can see only once every 4 years cannot "haunt" them. Its not like he went to the Bengals/Ravens/Steelers.

SI today rated team QBs and the Browns are at 27. The author said Kizer Shone is not very talented. He went way, way too high............but now, fans will pimp him into something he simply will never become. We draft shit, and because he is black, god forbid someone like me calls him a piece of shit draft pick. But he is. Coleman too.

27 seems right...give no proven player on this team. Hell....it may seem high actually. But....no final judgment can be made until these guys get a career going for them. Maybe someone will surprise.

Regarding Bosa versus Garrett? LMAO, this is comparing caviar to fish shit. Nobody EVER shut Bosa down in college. Alabama's LT made Garrett look like Courtney Brown. Bosa is intelligent and can bull rush. Garrett is too lanky and one dimensional. And again, if an edge rusher was on the radar, passing on an Ohio boy for a fucking goober Cowboy wannabe?

Actually....Bosa is from Florida...he just played at Ohio St. But, I here you....we shall see. Being "lanky" may not, however, be a detriment to being a great pass rusher. Many great pass rushers were lanky. Ted Hendricks, Jason Taylor and many others.

One dimensional? Maybe...at this point. To be successful, yes, he must learn additional techniques. Will he work out? Yes, IMO..it is questionable.

The Browns are cheap. They don't ant to pay for playmakers. They believe that Depudfucker

is going to get us HOF diamonds in the ruff for bargain prices. We shy away from the best players and we continue to draft busts.

Again....remains to be seen. This FO group has only made 2 drafts....it remains to be seen if they have drafted busts or not.

Again...you think you know stuff...but you may actually know shit. You may be right....but that would only be because you throw so much shit onto the ceiling that some of it is bound to stick.

calfoxwc

@wargograw said:
I didn't say anything about the OL or receivers. But this FO has not shied away from taking problem kids. That's a fact at this point.

WRONG. Looks to me like they "shied away" from taking problem kids except twice, coleman was not a problem kid.

Looks to me like they SHIED AWAY until the 5th and 6th rounds, and they took a chance on a kid.

And this is a lot of picks.

2916 NFL Browns Draft picks

Let's mark the "problem kids" the first two drafts of this FO

1st Round ($1)Myles Garrett, Defensive End, Texas A&M

1st Round (#15): WR Corey Coleman *** I don't think so - wasn't a problem before the draft...

2nd Round (#32): DE Emmanuel Ogbah

3rd Round (#65): DE Carl Nassib

3rd Round (#76): OT Shon Coleman

3rd Round (#93): QB Cody Kessler

4th Round (#99): LB Joe Schobert

4th Round (#114): WR Ricardo Louis

4th Round (#129): S Derrick Kindred

4th Round (#138): TE Seth DeValve

5th Round (#154): WR Jordan Payton *** Problem kid

5th Round (#168): OT Spencer Drango

5th Round (#172): WR Rashard Higgins

5th Round (#173): CB Trey Caldwell

7th Round (#250): ILB Scooby Wright III

2017

Round 1

Pick 1: Myles Garrett

Pick 2: Jabrill Peppers

Pick 3: David Njoku

Pick 4: DeShone Kizer

Pick 5: Larry Ogunjobi

Pick 6: Howard Wilson

Pick 7: Roderick Johnson

Pick 8: Caleb Brantley ***Problem Kid

Pick 9: Zane Gonzalez

Pick 10: Matthew Dayes

Mudfly

@calfoxwc said:

WRONG. Looks to me like they "shied away" from taking problem kids except twice, coleman was not a problem kid.

Looks to me like they SHIED AWAY until the 5th and 6th rounds, and they took a chance on a kid.

And this is a lot of picks.

Every team "shies away" from problems Cal......so you're admitting to 2 in 2 drafts(that were known prior to picking them).....mysteriously leaving out Peppers failed drug test at the combine.....none the less, please tell me about "all" the problem kids(before the draft) that we picked previously...because I come up with Gordon in 2012 and Johnny in 2014....

So...2 in 4 drafts....compared to "your" 2 in 2 drafts?.......

Ill add....I really dont have major issues with rolling the dice on a talented player, even if he smokes weed or has a few skeletons in his closet......my issue is the constant denial that we've stopped doing that, as if we only draft uber high character, faultless athletes now.....the denial part is what I find silly...

calfoxwc

failed due to overhydration isn't a character flaw - a dumb technicality. We are talking about THIS FRONT OFFICE.

Not the past. And taking a chance on risk red flag players from college... 5th or 6th round, I have no problem with that.

It's the taking of a Josh Gordon in the second round.

and taking jm and gilbert in the first.

Gordon and Johnny were not this front office and coaching staff have only been here two years.

that is the freaking point.

Before the last two years, give it a freaking rest already. The startover was two drafts ago. I listed all those picks,

and you keep dragging previous historically bad picks and trying to slam our current FO and coaches with it.

That's just rationalizing the "poor, poor pitiful me" sad victim stuff. The last two years, look at the picks that

matter. Every single team in the NFL has this problem. Some teams don't pay attention to character at all.

and they get burnt by it immensely.

You are still drafting human beings - and nobody is perfect. But this FO and coaches would NEVER have drafted

jm and gilbert and gordon...etc. You don't take stupid chances in the first three or four rounds when you need them

to make a difference in your football team.

Drafting only for athletic talent is stupid. Jeremiah Pharms...jm gordon gilbert etc etc etc

they showed what they were in college. and the Browns ignored it because their numbers were terrific at the combine.

NO MORE. That is a huge, huge improvement on how they select players now, that's all.

wargograw

You realize that you're the one saying "this FO is different bc they don't draft problem kids." Therefore the onus is on you to point it out.

You can't just carve out an arbitrary exception like "well they don't do it in the first 4 rounds."

calfoxwc

it isn't black and white. The idea is, their criteria is different now. No more giberts, jms, gordons etc in the first 3/4 rounds.

anybody can take a chance on a questionable player later on. It's the stupid lack of legit criteria for drafting. (period). Mixon wasn't questionable. See the difference?

http://nflspinzone.com/2017/04/10/cleveland-browns-will-draft-character-risks-year/

"Many people point to Hue Jackson’s time with the Cincinnati Bengals as an argument to say the Browns would be inclined to take character risks. The issue with that is it been none other than Jackson himself that has emphasized character since he’s hired by the Browns. It was also Jackson that was the most vocal critic of Manziel before he was released and was pretty clear in how he felt about Gordon last year when he went to rehab."

"The Browns have put in a lot of effort to try to bring in certain kinds of players that fit their team athletically, in terms of production and their character. It would be a genuine shock for the Browns, with all of their effort and talks of changing the culture, to then just go the complete opposite direction."

hoorta

@calfoxwc said:
again, the squealers didn't do that, either. They had their team built, and got their raping to go qb.

So 2018 Sam Darnold is going to be DA Bomb. then Browns "improve" to a- by their standards to a respectable 6-10. Guess what? We're not getting him, short of trading away a couple drafts.

@calfoxwc said:

Two days of trying to fix the old )_(&)(*&^ riding mower.

So, it was not delusion that caused me to happily persevere and know I was going to get it fixed eventually.

It was trust, and the agonizing fun of finally getting there and winning .

So it is, that I do the same on the Browns. Mower sucks, taken apart, problems/aggravation,almost broke my hand

a few times, and had cursies? yep.

What frreaking sense does it make to whine, complain, cry, moan, lament and criticize everthing that moves,

when your lawnmower needs fixed?

Just get positive attitude going, laugh it off, and keep workin at it. Never....NEVER give up.

There ain't no freaking "delusion" confusion, here. Just whinsies.

Free country - but giving up doesn't get the mower fixed.

Ever hear time is money? Drop that mower off at the repair shop- no cursies, except when they don't fix it right? Could have been out planting tomatoes, instead of futzing around with a broken mower.

@calfoxwc said:
NO MORE. That is a huge, huge improvement on how they select players now, that's all.

I'm firmly in Mud's Camp, my motto is, and has been- SHOW ME. Want to talk about that huge improvement in wide receivers they selected last year? Near zero production. Oh, we're going to hope they improve? Hope isn't reality. Everyone "hopes" they have the winning lottery ticket when they buy one. So if this crop flops, we'll just draft more with all those picks we have next year. Depodesta said as much. "We don't think we're smarter than anyone else." Not exactly encouraging in my book. So as Ghoolie said, we're passing on talent everyone else is desirous of- for more spins at the roulette wheel down the road. We're going to hit it big- eventually.

Unsympathetic

Brantley isn't a problem kid..

Tour2ma

I fucking hate lawn work...

Retired from mowing long before I retired from work... and I retired early from work. It'll be 15 years this Sept.

But I loved the recounting of the mower repair battle.

calfoxwc

Ever hear time is money? Drop that mower off at the repair shop- no cursies, except when they don't fix it right? Could have been out planting tomatoes, instead of futzing around with a broken mower. Mr. Hoorta

***************************************************

Sure, but they are backed up about 2 1/2 weeks, lawn needs mowed, and...

that's that. Planted two acres of sunflowers today. Test planting to test biodiesel market, etc.

hoorta

@calfoxwc said:

Ever hear time is money? Drop that mower off at the repair shop- no cursies, except when they don't fix it right? Could have been out planting tomatoes, instead of futzing around with a broken mower. Mr. Hoorta

***************************************************

Sure, but they are backed up about 2 1/2 weeks, lawn needs mowed, and...

that's that. Planted two acres of sunflowers today. Test planting to test biodiesel market, etc.

There is farm machinery for mowing hay fields. Lawn needs mowed? Or organic solution- rent neighbor's cows.

calfoxwc

I have a brush hog, but I need a bigger one...eventually. The old farmer quit having cattle..too much work.

...tried to talk him into raising buffalo so I could buy buffalo meat from him....to no avail. lol As far as cutting hay for

harvest, we have a 9' "moco"...JD scissors blade/big rubber rollers cruncher jobbie that works great. Ya crunch the

hay as you are cutting it, so it dries a lot faster, which is important especially for alfalpha and clover, which dries slower...