FO report card
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Ok....it's the slow season, so time to do some deep muddy analysis of where we are with this team......gonna do some threads....offense.....defense.....coaches....and this one.....FO .....kind of a good list bad list thingy.....
Like in the real world, I see a lot of what I call extremism and very little honest assessment with the Browns.....either things are GREAT or things completely suck.....but the truth lies somewhere in the middle. This past year, I have spent a lot of time focusing on things we need to improve on and it usually gets flipped to me just being a negative nellie, instead of what Im trying to do, which is get better....if we do a "good" thing, it does not immediately mean this FO is great, it just means we got something right.....and vice versa.....when I point to poor judgment or a bad thing, it does not mean I think they suck....it's just an honest evaluation of what Im seeing......so here goes.....(lots of words)
Front Office - Shahsi, Depo & Jimmy:
Ima start with Jimmy.....as I was so excited when he took over from Lerner. I thought "finally" we had someone who cared and would get involved enough to bring immediate improvements and success to the team. As expected, he wiped out the existing staff and started from scratch. No issues. Hated Shurmur, but did like Heckart. None the less, I got it......He went and got Banner, which I also understood.....but then.....he hired Lombardi(a terrible sign) and I was like whaa??!!...and then Chud.....whaa???(again).....of course, by adding Horton and Turner, I felt a little better, because they at least carried some of the experience that Chud lacked. My real issues started when all of these guys were fired after only one year.....it freaked me out, actually......Impatience personified...uh oh...
He hired Farmer and Pettine, both of whom I knew very little about. And, year 1, I liked what I saw. The one thing I HATED, was Jimmy imposing his will on the draft and convincing Farmer to pick Johnny Bo Bohnny the punk drunk. This set the course for much trouble to come. JFF was a huge burden to Farmer, Pettine, the team and the fans. A dark era, if ever there was one. And I blame Jimmy 100% for that mess. Even with that, Pettine and his staff found a way to a 7-4 record, before injuries and complete failure at QB brought the team down.
One year later, w/o any offensive weapons and w/o a QB and beset with injuries(and the whole Jff fiasco), the team dropped back to their losing ways. And the result was a complete wipe out of everyone involved....another glaring sign of impatience over understanding.......and we start again....
Jimmy then hires a Lawyer and a baseball guy to run things....says he'll be patient.....says he wont interfere.....which raised many eye brows. Cant say I was excited and, actually, was pretty pissed that he blew it up again. A lawyer? Baseball? Jimmy NOT tampering?.....Ill believe it when I see it.....etc.
Well, so far he seems to be keeping quiet and out of the way.....hope it stays that way.....we shall see,,, But, as an overall grade, for his 5 years here.....I am not impressed.......at all......
Sashi & Depo: The one thing that is clear with these 2 guys is that they are smart. Very smart..... Now, whether they are smart in a good way, has yet to prove out. My initial reaction to their first season was very negative. I honestly felt(and still feel) that they made many irrational decisions and over committed to their plan to strip down and start over. It was clear that they had no issues with losing and set about dumping players, without any consideration to who would replace them. And they seemed to completely ignore certain needs, that would have been easy peasy to fix. The one thing that was very clear, they LOVE collecting picks....over everything else.....the one thing these guys want is draft picks....AND they favor quantity over quality. Which, is understandable, when you need everything(of course, they are a big part of the reason we needed everything...all at once)....
So, when they took over, Id say we needed 5 or so top flight players to bring this team into playoff contention.....BUT, after the strip down, that number increased greatly....meaning our climb to the top just became a much greater task.....and we planned to do it with a ton of late picks and no FA's.....which basically made me shit my pants.....
Our first draft and FA period, to me, were complete failures(I still feel that way too). In free agency, we signed not one player of value. Sorry guys. It was complete bust and, in fact, we have none of those players one year later. Had they signed a couple OL, things could have been different(a little bit, at least) and it was a glaring issue. The draft, to me, was also a complete head shaker. Hated the trade backs and pick of C. Coleman(still do) and wasn't enamored with the balance of picks.....esp 4 WR's, on a team that needed so much more. I felt we focused on one small area, and AGAIN, completely ignored some of our major weaknesses, that we had the opportunity to address. QB, OL, LB, CB, S
With years and years of picking first round busts, I really expected this FO to kill it their first draft and go all out to get a premium player...one that would make us forget about the Gilberts, Manziels & Richardsons......and instead, they gave us Corey Coleman.....ooops
So, I was very disappointed and the simmering began. I could see this team would be our worst ever, and in fact, it was. They looked terrible at camp....during the preseason.....and, of course, during the regular season. So....watched 4 preseason games.....16 regular season games....and saw them win exactly 1......for those who cant add.....thats 1-19.....(which is about what I expected).....
The REAL issue with this, is that we were primed to at least expect some growth and some excitement from our landslide of new talent....14 picks.....some FA's....etc. But that wasnt to be. There was not one single player who emerged or looked like a great score. Not one. A couple did do OK or "as expected"...Ogbah looked ok.....Kessler was a touch better than we thought he'd be....Devalve flashed a time or 2......but, guess what folks, thats it.....Both Colemans did little to nothing.....Nassib got worse with time....Schobert, the other 3 WR's, and whoever else were completely invisible.....Davis, Griffin and the other FA's all failed and are now gone.......So, lets be clear, there was NOT a single stand out in the entire group.....which added to my pissed demeanor....cause we vanquished the team, needed many players, and apparently only got one or 2 tops.....even though we brought in a boat load....
And, just as annoying, were those who denied this and claimed these to be great moves...necessary....etc etc etc......(it's just not true guys).......
NOW....here's some good news.......one of the encouraging things I see going into year 2 is that the FO is willing to adjust. For instance, when it became apparent that our DC was not getting it done, they got a new one....instead of firing the whole staff. Thats a step in the right direction......Instead of ignoring the gaping holes on our OL, they actually signed a couple of players. Maybe not the right guys at the right positions, but again, a step in the right direction......Instead of letting our home grown talent walk away, they attempted to resign them.....and while they lost a couple....they retained a few too. Another step in the right direction.......When we had the top pick in the draft, we actually picked a premier prospect, instead of trading it for several lesser prospects.....a step in the right direction....
So, I give them higher marks for this years FA class, then I did for the complete failure of 2016. But dont mistake this for being "happy or elated" about this FA class....cause I think it was only "fair, at best" and, honestly feel we did not actually get better, due to these signings.....but didnt get worse either, which is what happened in 2016.....kind of a wash FA period.....
The DRAFT was a bit better too.....at least on paper.....I was happy we picked Garrett, but that was basically a mindless obvious pick.....but have to admit, I was pretty pissed off when we traded out of #12. Felt like us, once again, passing on premier talent, while collecting the opportunity to select less than premier talent....more quantity over quality. Then we tapped Peppers and Njoku. I was never a Peppers hater(and still am not), but felt like we were again ignoring our greatest needs and picking positions that were less important...(ie SS when we needed FS or TE over LB, etc etc)...none the less, the end result looks pretty good to me. We got 3 potential stars(one of em has to be good, right??)....and we also got another QB prospect....plus additional "high" picks going forward.
So...to me....this is a big improvement over year 1. I believe there could have been more done(FA) and some better choices made(draft), but overall, they took another positive step toward adding talent....the one thing that DIDNT happen?.....no stupid stupid picks....ala 4 WR's....or a UDFA QB in the 3rd......or a guy with a blown knee in the 3rd....etc etc.....
So....after year 2 draft and off season.....I see a "little" improvement in our FA choices.....I see some tinkering with the staff, as opposed to starting over.....I see improved quality with the draft choices....
I do believe they need to continue to improve and adjust though....as I still dont see us adding enough talent(per year) to make this team good.....and, at the current rate, it will take forever(not 3 years, or 4 years or 5 years.....foreverrrrrrr).....
I will say.... think the FO is smart enough to see this, self assess and adjust.....and I hope they continue to do so....that is the one strength, that previous regimes did not have.....the smarts and ability to know what they did wrong and try to improve upon it......maybe NEXT years FA and draft class will be even better.....THEN we'll be dancing......until then.....fingers crossed.....
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Fair, "half-empty" assessment... I'd expect no less... or maybe it's "no more"...
One grain of 2016 salt for the FO... short prep time. But I think this was also in their "awareness" and helped them take the approach that stockpiled future picks... nuggets stashed away for a day when they knew they'd be better prepared to use them.
On the DC upgrade: I think there was a chunk of opportunism in the move. Had LAR given Fisher "one more year", it's very likely we would have seen another year of Horton. Regardless the bulk of the credit for the change has to go to Hue... it's his staff.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Best situation we've been in for a while
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Best situation we've been in for a while
I don't know that you can honestly say that. What you can say is that the FO has an identifiable style. They have chosen a #1 draft pick most likely based on probability. Saving a lightening strike, Garrett is going to give the Browns great value for years to come. Like Thomas has. You don't have to make the best choice with your #1..........as long as you make one of the best, then you did well. The downside to Garrett is non-existent.
Next, it is no secret that round 1 gives the highest probability of finding great talent. We picked 3 times. That also gives the Browns a probability advantage over other teams.
As an adjunct, unlike the Brady and Manziel picks, the FO didn't make any "what the fuck was that" choices. Even I, in my most Ghoolie mindset, gives a thumbs up.
I have blasted the Kizer pick, but am going to eat my crow even before it gets served up. More than anyone here I spout of the intangible, human qualities that make a player great. So, I look at this Kizer kid and I think about his cockiness. He wanted to get the fuck our of college, he wants to be a star, he wants to lead. Not unlike Joe Namath, eh? The kid doesn't seem to be about himself. I think this is the first QB we have had who can actually inject hope, adrenaline and potency into the Browns theater. A lot of experts think we made a steal. I am very hopeful that they are right.
Again, being honest, the difference between the shitty 1- 19 2016 Browns, and what would have been maybe an 8-8 season, very well could already be brewing with some of the last year rookies and this year's rookies. Just having a QB who can shake it up and turn shit into shinola is something we have not had since Bernie, and to some extent Testicle-verde.
No team has any guarantees, They all have hope and expectations. We can disagree on how a team should be built, but this FO has a culture, and this is something we also have not had in a long time.......
Accumulate picks
Draft low risk
Draft high odds payout with little risk
Don't sell the future on veteran blowhards
Think Young
Will this work? Common sense tells you it has to be better than the shit that preceded it.
I personally still believe the fire has to be started by the QB. Kizer is the only guy who has that potential, aura, or whatever you want to call it. I think he will make a bunch of stupid throws and a bunch of crowd pleasers. I think I will really love this FO and HC if the kid gets the start, and has the support to let him swing for the bleachers, focusing on his upside, and looking at the fuck ups as just simple shit to learn from.
Lynch, Trubisky?
Don't give a fuck any more. We all deserve respect. Browns fans deserve a winner. I really am all in. The FO has a plan. Ya gotta give the plan space and not fuck with it.
I'm on board.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
Nothing Else has Worked..so I guess I like where this is going?..BUT... With any progress? We have to stop the collection of picks..Use them to move up for better QuAlity pieces in 18..Hue Jackson is Not the QB Messiah that he is labelled to be. Or Hue thinks he is? Hell yes, Hue would have taken a Wentz. But settled for a Kessler to build back-up a failed re-boot that lost more pieces than they really want to say imo. This Draft Hue got dick'd again at #10 if losing out on MaHolmes was Hue's guy? Lead to plan B again. Imo Adoree Jackson was still the pick. A Multi-talented CB, instead we settled for another multi-talent help with Peppers..12 more picks next season with a good class of QB's next draft. If we don't own a Wentzzcott by end of 17 season? Do us all a favor..Buy One$$$ not named Oswieler3..
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Best situation we've been in for a while
I don't know that you can honestly say that. What you can say is that the FO has an identifiable style. They have chosen a #1 draft pick most likely based on probability. Saving a lightening strike, Garrett is going to give the Browns great value for years to come. Like Thomas has. You don't have to make the best choice with your #1..........as long as you make one of the best, then you did well. The downside to Garrett is non-existent.
Next, it is no secret that round 1 gives the highest probability of finding great talent. We picked 3 times. That also gives the Browns a probability advantage over other teams.
As an adjunct, unlike the Brady and Manziel picks, the FO didn't make any "what the fuck was that" choices. Even I, in my most Ghoolie mindset, gives a thumbs up.
I have blasted the Kizer pick, but am going to eat my crow even before it gets served up. More than anyone here I spout of the intangible, human qualities that make a player great. So, I look at this Kizer kid and I think about his cockiness. He wanted to get the fuck our of college, he wants to be a star, he wants to lead. Not unlike Joe Namath, eh? The kid doesn't seem to be about himself. I think this is the first QB we have had who can actually inject hope, adrenaline and potency into the Browns theater. A lot of experts think we made a steal. I am very hopeful that they are right.
Again, being honest, the difference between the shitty 1- 19 2016 Browns, and what would have been maybe an 8-8 season, very well could already be brewing with some of the last year rookies and this year's rookies. Just having a QB who can shake it up and turn shit into shinola is something we have not had since Bernie, and to some extent Testicle-verde.
No team has any guarantees, They all have hope and expectations. We can disagree on how a team should be built, but this FO has a culture, and this is something we also have not had in a long time.......
Accumulate picks
Draft low risk
Draft high odds payout with little risk
Don't sell the future on veteran blowhards
Think Young
Will this work? Common sense tells you it has to be better than the shit that preceded it.
I personally still believe the fire has to be started by the QB. Kizer is the only guy who has that potential, aura, or whatever you want to call it. I think he will make a bunch of stupid throws and a bunch of crowd pleasers. I think I will really love this FO and HC if the kid gets the start, and has the support to let him swing for the bleachers, focusing on his upside, and looking at the fuck ups as just simple shit to learn from.
Lynch, Trubisky?
Don't give a fuck any more. We all deserve respect. Browns fans deserve a winner. I really am all in. The FO has a plan. Ya gotta give the plan space and not fuck with it.
I'm on board.
Good observation, I think that mindset is shared by the NE Patriots.We can disagree on how a team should be built, but this FO has a culture, and this is something we also have not had in a long time.......
Accumulate picks
Draft low risk
Draft high odds payout with little risk
Don't sell the future on veteran blowhards
Think Young
Will this work?
I hear ya!Browns fans deserve a winner.
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Fair, "half-empty" assessment... I'd expect no less... or maybe it's "no more"...
One grain of 2016 salt for the FO... short prep time. But I think this was also in their "awareness" and helped them take the approach that stockpiled future picks... nuggets stashed away for a day when they knew they'd be better prepared to use them.
On the DC upgrade: I think there was a chunk of opportunism in the move. Had LAR given Fisher "one more year", it's very likely we would have seen another year of Horton. Regardless the bulk of the credit for the change has to go to Hue... it's his staff.
Fair, "half-empty" assessment... I'd expect no less... or maybe it's "no more"...
One grain of 2016 salt for the FO... short prep time. But I think this was also in their "awareness" and helped them take the approach that stockpiled future picks... nuggets stashed away for a day when they knew they'd be better prepared to use them.
Ok...if you say so.....Id debate that(14 picks), but no real need to......I think they did their best and just learned a little for round 2.....no holds barred tho.....
On the DC upgrade: I think there was a chunk of opportunism in the move. Had LAR given Fisher "one more year", it's very likely we would have seen another year of Horton. Regardless the bulk of the credit for the change has to go to Hue... it's his staff.
Glad they saw an opportunity and took it.....whether it was Hue or the FO......change(tweaking), on a reasonable scale, can be very good.....and I think this is one of those times.....
Next, it is no secret that round 1 gives the highest probability of finding great talent. We picked 3 times. That also gives the Browns a probability advantage over other teams.
So....maybe well hit on one(or 2)....outside of Shelton, it's been a long long time.....
As an adjunct, unlike the Brady and Manziel picks, the FO didn't make any "what the fuck was that" choices. Even I, in my most Ghoolie mindset, gives a thumbs up.
Thats one of my revelations too......no real obvious fuck ups......(a few risky picks, but what the hell)
A lot of experts think we made a steal. I am very hopeful that they are right.
Me too.....did not see it in him pre-draft, but never hated him either......NOW, just hope and a prayer.....he could be the guy!
Don't give a fuck any more. We all deserve respect. Browns fans deserve a winner. I really am all in. The FO has a plan. Ya gotta give the plan space and not fuck with it.
There ya go.....I haven't been a fan of this FO, but have never once condoned talk of another change.....they have a plan and look to be the first group that will be permitted to execute it.....thats a plus in Jimmys favor....
Nothing Else has Worked..so I guess I like where this is going?..BUT... With any progress?
Thats where I am.....limited progress...which this exercise helped me to see....
We have to stop the collection of picks..Use them to move up for better QuAlity pieces in 18..
Agree.....already burned out on massive middling picks.....lets go for more quality and less quantity....
Hue Jackson is Not the QB Messiah that he is labelled to be. Or Hue thinks he is?
No where even close.....
This Draft Hue got dick'd again at #10 if losing out on MaHolmes was Hue's guy? Lead to plan B again
Not so sure Hue has much(or any) say in personnel decisions....to my eye, he's not a talent evaluator and is very much an optimist, making him think ANY player could, should or would do well.....he is too positive and not nearly critical enough to make those choices...
. Imo Adoree Jackson was still the pick. A Multi-talented CB, instead we settled for another multi-talent help with Peppers..
I was an Adore fan too.....would have been just as happy(or happier) with him, as opposed to Peppers.....but, in the end, they have many of the same attributes.....
12 more picks next season with a good class of QB's next draft. If we don't own a Wentzzcott by end of 17 season? Do us all a favor..Buy One$$$ not named Oswieler3..
Im hoping Kizer shows enough to let us use those high picks elsewhere....
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Best situation we've been in for a while
I don't know that you can honestly say that. What you can say is that the FO has an identifiable style. They have chosen a #1 draft pick most likely based on probability. Saving a lightening strike, Garrett is going to give the Browns great value for years to come. Like Thomas has. You don't have to make the best choice with your #1..........as long as you make one of the best, then you did well. The downside to Garrett is non-existent.
Next, it is no secret that round 1 gives the highest probability of finding great talent. We picked 3 times. That also gives the Browns a probability advantage over other teams.
As an adjunct, unlike the Brady and Manziel picks, the FO didn't make any "what the fuck was that" choices. Even I, in my most Ghoolie mindset, gives a thumbs up.
I have blasted the Kizer pick, but am going to eat my crow even before it gets served up. More than anyone here I spout of the intangible, human qualities that make a player great. So, I look at this Kizer kid and I think about his cockiness. He wanted to get the fuck our of college, he wants to be a star, he wants to lead. Not unlike Joe Namath, eh? The kid doesn't seem to be about himself. I think this is the first QB we have had who can actually inject hope, adrenaline and potency into the Browns theater. A lot of experts think we made a steal. I am very hopeful that they are right.
Again, being honest, the difference between the shitty 1- 19 2016 Browns, and what would have been maybe an 8-8 season, very well could already be brewing with some of the last year rookies and this year's rookies. Just having a QB who can shake it up and turn shit into shinola is something we have not had since Bernie, and to some extent Testicle-verde.
No team has any guarantees, They all have hope and expectations. We can disagree on how a team should be built, but this FO has a culture, and this is something we also have not had in a long time.......
Accumulate picks
Draft low risk
Draft high odds payout with little risk
Don't sell the future on veteran blowhards
Think Young
Will this work? Common sense tells you it has to be better than the shit that preceded it.
I personally still believe the fire has to be started by the QB. Kizer is the only guy who has that potential, aura, or whatever you want to call it. I think he will make a bunch of stupid throws and a bunch of crowd pleasers. I think I will really love this FO and HC if the kid gets the start, and has the support to let him swing for the bleachers, focusing on his upside, and looking at the fuck ups as just simple shit to learn from.
Lynch, Trubisky?
Don't give a fuck any more. We all deserve respect. Browns fans deserve a winner. I really am all in. The FO has a plan. Ya gotta give the plan space and not fuck with it.
I'm on board.
Lynch, Trubisky?
Don't give a fuck any more. We all deserve respect. Browns fans deserve a winner. I really am all in. The FO has a plan. Ya gotta give the plan space and not fuck with it.
I'm on board.
Sybil
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Best situation we've been in for a while
I don't know that you can honestly say that. What you can say is that the FO has an identifiable style. They have chosen a #1 draft pick most likely based on probability. Saving a lightening strike, Garrett is going to give the Browns great value for years to come. Like Thomas has. You don't have to make the best choice with your #1..........as long as you make one of the best, then you did well. The downside to Garrett is non-existent.
Next, it is no secret that round 1 gives the highest probability of finding great talent. We picked 3 times. That also gives the Browns a probability advantage over other teams.
As an adjunct, unlike the Brady and Manziel picks, the FO didn't make any "what the fuck was that" choices. Even I, in my most Ghoolie mindset, gives a thumbs up.
I have blasted the Kizer pick, but am going to eat my crow even before it gets served up. More than anyone here I spout of the intangible, human qualities that make a player great. So, I look at this Kizer kid and I think about his cockiness. He wanted to get the fuck our of college, he wants to be a star, he wants to lead. Not unlike Joe Namath, eh? The kid doesn't seem to be about himself. I think this is the first QB we have had who can actually inject hope, adrenaline and potency into the Browns theater. A lot of experts think we made a steal. I am very hopeful that they are right.
Again, being honest, the difference between the shitty 1- 19 2016 Browns, and what would have been maybe an 8-8 season, very well could already be brewing with some of the last year rookies and this year's rookies. Just having a QB who can shake it up and turn shit into shinola is something we have not had since Bernie, and to some extent Testicle-verde.
No team has any guarantees, They all have hope and expectations. We can disagree on how a team should be built, but this FO has a culture, and this is something we also have not had in a long time.......
Accumulate picks
Draft low risk
Draft high odds payout with little risk
Don't sell the future on veteran blowhards
Think Young
Will this work? Common sense tells you it has to be better than the shit that preceded it.
I personally still believe the fire has to be started by the QB. Kizer is the only guy who has that potential, aura, or whatever you want to call it. I think he will make a bunch of stupid throws and a bunch of crowd pleasers. I think I will really love this FO and HC if the kid gets the start, and has the support to let him swing for the bleachers, focusing on his upside, and looking at the fuck ups as just simple shit to learn from.
Lynch, Trubisky?
Don't give a fuck any more. We all deserve respect. Browns fans deserve a winner. I really am all in. The FO has a plan. Ya gotta give the plan space and not fuck with it.
I'm on board.
I don't know that you can honestly say that. What you can say is that the FO has an identifiable style. They have chosen a #1 draft pick most likely based on probability. Saving a lightening strike, Garrett is going to give the Browns great value for years to come. Like Thomas has. You don't have to make the best choice with your #1..........as long as you make one of the best, then you did well. The downside to Garrett is non-existent.
Next, it is no secret that round 1 gives the highest probability of finding great talent. We picked 3 times. That also gives the Browns a probability advantage over other teams.
As an adjunct, unlike the Brady and Manziel picks, the FO didn't make any "what the fuck was that" choices. Even I, in my most Ghoolie mindset, gives a thumbs up.
I have blasted the Kizer pick, but am going to eat my crow even before it gets served up. More than anyone here I spout of the intangible, human qualities that make a player great. So, I look at this Kizer kid and I think about his cockiness. He wanted to get the fuck our of college, he wants to be a star, he wants to lead. Not unlike Joe Namath, eh? The kid doesn't seem to be about himself. I think this is the first QB we have had who can actually inject hope, adrenaline and potency into the Browns theater. A lot of experts think we made a steal. I am very hopeful that they are right.
Again, being honest, the difference between the shitty 1- 19 2016 Browns, and what would have been maybe an 8-8 season, very well could already be brewing with some of the last year rookies and this year's rookies. Just having a QB who can shake it up and turn shit into shinola is something we have not had since Bernie, and to some extent Testicle-verde.
No team has any guarantees, They all have hope and expectations. We can disagree on how a team should be built, but this FO has a culture, and this is something we also have not had in a long time.......
Accumulate picks
Draft low risk
Draft high odds payout with little risk
Don't sell the future on veteran blowhards
Think Young
Will this work? Common sense tells you it has to be better than the shit that preceded it.
I personally still believe the fire has to be started by the QB. Kizer is the only guy who has that potential, aura, or whatever you want to call it. I think he will make a bunch of stupid throws and a bunch of crowd pleasers. I think I will really love this FO and HC if the kid gets the start, and has the support to let him swing for the bleachers, focusing on his upside, and looking at the fuck ups as just simple shit to learn from.
Lynch, Trubisky?
Don't give a fuck any more. We all deserve respect. Browns fans deserve a winner. I really am all in. The FO has a plan. Ya gotta give the plan space and not fuck with it.
I'm on board.
Wow, this is the most sensible post of yours I've read in a while. Though to be fair I don't read most of your posts. I can honestly say I agree with a good portion of it.
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I don't know that you can honestly say that. What you can say is that the FO has an identifiable style. They have chosen a #1 draft pick most likely based on probability. Saving a lightening strike, Garrett is going to give the Browns great value for years to come. Like Thomas has. You don't have to make the best choice with your #1..........as long as you make one of the best, then you did well. The downside to Garrett is non-existent.
Next, it is no secret that round 1 gives the highest probability of finding great talent. We picked 3 times. That also gives the Browns a probability advantage over other teams.
As an adjunct, unlike the Brady and Manziel picks, the FO didn't make any "what the fuck was that" choices. Even I, in my most Ghoolie mindset, gives a thumbs up.
I have blasted the Kizer pick, but am going to eat my crow even before it gets served up. More than anyone here I spout of the intangible, human qualities that make a player great. So, I look at this Kizer kid and I think about his cockiness. He wanted to get the fuck our of college, he wants to be a star, he wants to lead. Not unlike Joe Namath, eh? The kid doesn't seem to be about himself. I think this is the first QB we have had who can actually inject hope, adrenaline and potency into the Browns theater. A lot of experts think we made a steal. I am very hopeful that they are right.
Again, being honest, the difference between the shitty 1- 19 2016 Browns, and what would have been maybe an 8-8 season, very well could already be brewing with some of the last year rookies and this year's rookies. Just having a QB who can shake it up and turn shit into shinola is something we have not had since Bernie, and to some extent Testicle-verde.
No team has any guarantees, They all have hope and expectations. We can disagree on how a team should be built, but this FO has a culture, and this is something we also have not had in a long time.......
Accumulate picks
Draft low risk
Draft high odds payout with little risk
Don't sell the future on veteran blowhards
Think Young
Will this work? Common sense tells you it has to be better than the shit that preceded it.
I personally still believe the fire has to be started by the QB. Kizer is the only guy who has that potential, aura, or whatever you want to call it. I think he will make a bunch of stupid throws and a bunch of crowd pleasers. I think I will really love this FO and HC if the kid gets the start, and has the support to let him swing for the bleachers, focusing on his upside, and looking at the fuck ups as just simple shit to learn from.
Lynch, Trubisky?
Don't give a fuck any more. We all deserve respect. Browns fans deserve a winner. I really am all in. The FO has a plan. Ya gotta give the plan space and not fuck with it.
I'm on board.
Wow, this is the most sensible post of yours I've read in a while. Though to be fair I don't read most of your posts. I can honestly say I agree with a good portion of it.
Wow, this is the most sensible post of yours I've read in a while. Though to be fair I don't read most of your posts. I can honestly say I agree with a good portion of it.
I may have to take him off my ignore button if he keeps staying sensible. I like this version far more and look forward to the permanent change.
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Great read Mud!
Bill Parcells always liked to say "you are what your record says you are." Having said that, I doubt he liked saying that very often during the first year he almost got fired taking over the dumpster fire in NY back in 1983. Back then, he had to be thinking "we are who are QB says we are." Phil Simms got hurt early on as Scott Brunner QBed them to 3-9. How much did they need LT off the edge when they didn't have very many leads to protect?
It's tough to make very many conclusions about a rookie FO; but I liked getting 3 first round picks in 2016. I also like knowing we have 2 picks in round 1 and 3 in round 2 next year (that's 5 picks). It's also been said it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft while we're waiting to see which way things go with the 2 Colemans, Ogbah, DeValve, Drango, Kindred, Higgins, Nassib and Kessler. Is talent or experience their biggest enemy? Danny Shelton sure looked a lot better in his 2nd year than he did in his first right?
As much as I thought Zeke Elliott was the best pick in the 2016 draft, there's been periods of time Crow has averaged over 6 yards a carry as a rookie and early on in 2016 when both OGs were healthy/starting. As much as people like to trash our line for its pass pro, Crow ended up with 4.8 yards per carry all the while Zeke got to run behind the best line in football last year. Suffice it to say, Crow was 1 guy we didn't need to upgrade.
Keep in mind, our first 2 picks in the 2014 draft were already out of the NFL as early as 2016 while Erving has yet to perform like a 1st round talent. The rookie FO at least got some exchange value back from Pittsburgh for Gilbert. If the FO in 2014 drafted Khalil Mack and Derek Carr especially in spots we could have drafted them - doesn't that already solve huge needs like edge rush and QB? The Raiders are really happy about their overall impact to their turn around and rightfully so.
Other things I like that this FO has done are:
Traded for Jamie Collins and gave him a new contract.
Gave Bitonio a new contract.
Gave Kirksey a new contract.
They brought in Zeitler as well as enough competition to upgrade the 1st round Center Farmer drafted.
Got rid of Candy Lee.
I'd like to add Gregg Williams but he already clarified in his presser Hue is the reason he's here.
Unfortunately, I HATE 1-15 football so the biggest question this FO has to answer is - Can you draft?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Great read Mud!
Bill Parcells always liked to say "you are what your record says you are." Having said that, I doubt he liked saying that very often during the first year he almost got fired taking over the dumpster fire in NY back in 1983. Back then, he had to be thinking "we are who are QB says we are." Phil Simms got hurt early on as Scott Brunner QBed them to 3-9. How much did they need LT off the edge when they didn't have very many leads to protect?
It's tough to make very many conclusions about a rookie FO; but I liked getting 3 first round picks in 2016. I also like knowing we have 2 picks in round 1 and 3 in round 2 next year (that's 5 picks). It's also been said it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft while we're waiting to see which way things go with the 2 Colemans, Ogbah, DeValve, Drango, Kindred, Higgins, Nassib and Kessler. Is talent or experience their biggest enemy? Danny Shelton sure looked a lot better in his 2nd year than he did in his first right?
As much as I thought Zeke Elliott was the best pick in the 2016 draft, there's been periods of time Crow has averaged over 6 yards a carry as a rookie and early on in 2016 when both OGs were healthy/starting. As much as people like to trash our line for its pass pro, Crow ended up with 4.8 yards per carry all the while Zeke got to run behind the best line in football last year. Suffice it to say, Crow was 1 guy we didn't need to upgrade.
Keep in mind, our first 2 picks in the 2014 draft were already out of the NFL as early as 2016 while Erving has yet to perform like a 1st round talent. The rookie FO at least got some exchange value back from Pittsburgh for Gilbert. If the FO in 2014 drafted Khalil Mack and Derek Carr especially in spots we could have drafted them - doesn't that already solve huge needs like edge rush and QB? The Raiders are really happy about their overall impact to their turn around and rightfully so.
Other things I like that this FO has done are:
Traded for Jamie Collins and gave him a new contract.
Gave Bitonio a new contract.
Gave Kirksey a new contract.
They brought in Zeitler as well as enough competition to upgrade the 1st round Center Farmer drafted.
Got rid of Candy Lee.
I'd like to add Gregg Williams but he already clarified in his presser Hue is the reason he's here.
Unfortunately, I HATE 1-15 football so the biggest question this FO has to answer is - Can you draft?
-
Sybil
lol...
Wow, this is the most sensible post of yours I've read in a while. Though to be fair I don't read most of your posts. I can honestly say I agree with a good portion of it.
I may have to take him off my ignore button if he keeps staying sensible. I like this version far more and look forward to the permanent change.
Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
It always amazes me that folks claim to ignore me, yet still know what I post. Funny stuff.
In any case, I want to see these guys succeed, I don't care who predicted what. Even me.
Not that big a mystery. When posts are quoted, ignore is bypassed.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Great read Mud!
Bill Parcells always liked to say "you are what your record says you are." Having said that, I doubt he liked saying that very often during the first year he almost got fired taking over the dumpster fire in NY back in 1983. Back then, he had to be thinking "we are who are QB says we are." Phil Simms got hurt early on as Scott Brunner QBed them to 3-9. How much did they need LT off the edge when they didn't have very many leads to protect?
It's tough to make very many conclusions about a rookie FO; but I liked getting 3 first round picks in 2016. I also like knowing we have 2 picks in round 1 and 3 in round 2 next year (that's 5 picks). It's also been said it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft while we're waiting to see which way things go with the 2 Colemans, Ogbah, DeValve, Drango, Kindred, Higgins, Nassib and Kessler. Is talent or experience their biggest enemy? Danny Shelton sure looked a lot better in his 2nd year than he did in his first right?
As much as I thought Zeke Elliott was the best pick in the 2016 draft, there's been periods of time Crow has averaged over 6 yards a carry as a rookie and early on in 2016 when both OGs were healthy/starting. As much as people like to trash our line for its pass pro, Crow ended up with 4.8 yards per carry all the while Zeke got to run behind the best line in football last year. Suffice it to say, Crow was 1 guy we didn't need to upgrade.
Keep in mind, our first 2 picks in the 2014 draft were already out of the NFL as early as 2016 while Erving has yet to perform like a 1st round talent. The rookie FO at least got some exchange value back from Pittsburgh for Gilbert. If the FO in 2014 drafted Khalil Mack and Derek Carr especially in spots we could have drafted them - doesn't that already solve huge needs like edge rush and QB? The Raiders are really happy about their overall impact to their turn around and rightfully so.
Other things I like that this FO has done are:
Traded for Jamie Collins and gave him a new contract.
Gave Bitonio a new contract.
Gave Kirksey a new contract.
They brought in Zeitler as well as enough competition to upgrade the 1st round Center Farmer drafted.
Got rid of Candy Lee.
I'd like to add Gregg Williams but he already clarified in his presser Hue is the reason he's here.
Unfortunately, I HATE 1-15 football so the biggest question this FO has to answer is - Can you draft?
Great read Mud!
Bill Parcells always liked to say "you are what your record says you are." Having said that, I doubt he liked saying that very often during the first year he almost got fired taking over the dumpster fire in NY back in 1983. Back then, he had to be thinking "we are who are QB says we are." Phil Simms got hurt early on as Scott Brunner QBed them to 3-9. How much did they need LT off the edge when they didn't have very many leads to protect?
It's tough to make very many conclusions about a rookie FO; but I liked getting 3 first round picks in 2016. I also like knowing we have 2 picks in round 1 and 3 in round 2 next year (that's 5 picks). It's also been said it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft while we're waiting to see which way things go with the 2 Colemans, Ogbah, DeValve, Drango, Kindred, Higgins, Nassib and Kessler. Is talent or experience their biggest enemy? Danny Shelton sure looked a lot better in his 2nd year than he did in his first right?
As much as I thought Zeke Elliott was the best pick in the 2016 draft, there's been periods of time Crow has averaged over 6 yards a carry as a rookie and early on in 2016 when both OGs were healthy/starting. As much as people like to trash our line for its pass pro, Crow ended up with 4.8 yards per carry all the while Zeke got to run behind the best line in football last year. Suffice it to say, Crow was 1 guy we didn't need to upgrade.
Keep in mind, our first 2 picks in the 2014 draft were already out of the NFL as early as 2016 while Erving has yet to perform like a 1st round talent. The rookie FO at least got some exchange value back from Pittsburgh for Gilbert. If the FO in 2014 drafted Khalil Mack and Derek Carr especially in spots we could have drafted them - doesn't that already solve huge needs like edge rush and QB? The Raiders are really happy about their overall impact to their turn around and rightfully so.
Other things I like that this FO has done are:
Traded for Jamie Collins and gave him a new contract.
Gave Bitonio a new contract.
Gave Kirksey a new contract.
They brought in Zeitler as well as enough competition to upgrade the 1st round Center Farmer drafted.
Got rid of Candy Lee.
I'd like to add Gregg Williams but he already clarified in his presser Hue is the reason he's here.
Unfortunately, I HATE 1-15 football so the biggest question this FO has to answer is - Can you draft?
Tom, here is the Cliffs notes version of your post, at least as I see it.
By having a lot of picks, even if we are average at talent assessment, we win. However, early results would indicate that we did have some success at adding some talent. Not yet the big offensive playmakers, but for sure an improvement.
My two cents is that the FO recognizes we need a franchise QB. Going big in the draft is still the best chance of finding the guy, but statistically it isn't a guarantee. This task is at best, a crap shoot. So do you gamble it all on a roll of the dice, or do you keep some chips in your bank and play something a little less risky?
There is no right or wrong answer here. There is no guarantee. The Browns FO, by taking Kizer has kept some chips for other rolls, and at the same time, put the team in the game. Like Kizer or not, his pick gives the Browns a potential upside of finding the QB solution we seek. If he does pan out, given that we won't have to go big for a QB next year, we keep a pile of chips and wind up looking like geniuses. If he doesn't pan out, we have chips to roll again.
I am pulling for the kid. He has as good of a chance as anyone else.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
Sybil
lol...
Wow, this is the most sensible post of yours I've read in a while. Though to be fair I don't read most of your posts. I can honestly say I agree with a good portion of it.
I may have to take him off my ignore button if he keeps staying sensible. I like this version far more and look forward to the permanent change.
Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
It always amazes me that folks claim to ignore me, yet still know what I post. Funny stuff.
In any case, I want to see these guys succeed, I don't care who predicted what. Even me.
Not that big a mystery. When posts are quoted, ignore is bypassed.
Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
My potentially buying TBB would be to grow and improve it, not to acquire a playground. I already have plenty of playgrounds. My partner and I are in the acceptance stage of accepting a Venture Capital offer for a portion of a new water technology we invented and patented. I like to build things, and I would do the same with TBB.
I am exploring the potential interest, and associated costs with getting a gaggle of sports reporters, national and local, as well as players, current and former to participate here. Maybe short pop ins to the Tavern, perhaps a 3 - question per week column by Browns writers. The investment into buying the board is peanuts, the real costs lie in the expenditures and promises that would be required to get participation from the NFL and editorial world.
It can be done, and it would fire this place up. Calculating the returns for such an investment is the hard part. There is potential here, I just don't know how much. the NFL tends to be vicious mercenaries towards anything that dares to take away from them. That is the big obstacle in taking this to the next step. I don't know what our potential growth in members would be.
However, if I did buy it, it wouldn't be to piss anyone off, or to ruin the fun. I have already demonstrated my mastery of that.
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Great read Mud!
Bill Parcells always liked to say "you are what your record says you are." Having said that, I doubt he liked saying that very often during the first year he almost got fired taking over the dumpster fire in NY back in 1983. Back then, he had to be thinking "we are who are QB says we are." Phil Simms got hurt early on as Scott Brunner QBed them to 3-9. How much did they need LT off the edge when they didn't have very many leads to protect?
It's tough to make very many conclusions about a rookie FO; but I liked getting 3 first round picks in 2016. I also like knowing we have 2 picks in round 1 and 3 in round 2 next year (that's 5 picks). It's also been said it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft while we're waiting to see which way things go with the 2 Colemans, Ogbah, DeValve, Drango, Kindred, Higgins, Nassib and Kessler. Is talent or experience their biggest enemy? Danny Shelton sure looked a lot better in his 2nd year than he did in his first right?
As much as I thought Zeke Elliott was the best pick in the 2016 draft, there's been periods of time Crow has averaged over 6 yards a carry as a rookie and early on in 2016 when both OGs were healthy/starting. As much as people like to trash our line for its pass pro, Crow ended up with 4.8 yards per carry all the while Zeke got to run behind the best line in football last year. Suffice it to say, Crow was 1 guy we didn't need to upgrade.
Keep in mind, our first 2 picks in the 2014 draft were already out of the NFL as early as 2016 while Erving has yet to perform like a 1st round talent. The rookie FO at least got some exchange value back from Pittsburgh for Gilbert. If the FO in 2014 drafted Khalil Mack and Derek Carr especially in spots we could have drafted them - doesn't that already solve huge needs like edge rush and QB? The Raiders are really happy about their overall impact to their turn around and rightfully so.
Other things I like that this FO has done are:
Traded for Jamie Collins and gave him a new contract.
Gave Bitonio a new contract.
Gave Kirksey a new contract.
They brought in Zeitler as well as enough competition to upgrade the 1st round Center Farmer drafted.
Got rid of Candy Lee.
I'd like to add Gregg Williams but he already clarified in his presser Hue is the reason he's here.
Unfortunately, I HATE 1-15 football so the biggest question this FO has to answer is - Can you draft?
Tom, here is the Cliffs notes version of your post, at least as I see it.
By having a lot of picks, even if we are average at talent assessment, we win. However, early results would indicate that we did have some success at adding some talent. Not yet the big offensive playmakers, but for sure an improvement.
My two cents is that the FO recognizes we need a franchise QB. Going big in the draft is still the best chance of finding the guy, but statistically it isn't a guarantee. This task is at best, a crap shoot. So do you gamble it all on a roll of the dice, or do you keep some chips in your bank and play something a little less risky?
There is no right or wrong answer here. There is no guarantee. The Browns FO, by taking Kizer has kept some chips for other rolls, and at the same time, put the team in the game. Like Kizer or not, his pick gives the Browns a potential upside of finding the QB solution we seek. If he does pan out, given that we won't have to go big for a QB next year, we keep a pile of chips and wind up looking like geniuses. If he doesn't pan out, we have chips to roll again.
I am pulling for the kid. He has as good of a chance as anyone else.
Tom, here is the Cliffs notes version of your post, at least as I see it.
By having a lot of picks, even if we are average at talent assessment, we win. However, early results would indicate that we did have some success at adding some talent. Not yet the big offensive playmakers, but for sure an improvement.
My two cents is that the FO recognizes we need a franchise QB. Going big in the draft is still the best chance of finding the guy, but statistically it isn't a guarantee. This task is at best, a crap shoot. So do you gamble it all on a roll of the dice, or do you keep some chips in your bank and play something a little less risky?
There is no right or wrong answer here. There is no guarantee. The Browns FO, by taking Kizer has kept some chips for other rolls, and at the same time, put the team in the game. Like Kizer or not, his pick gives the Browns a potential upside of finding the QB solution we seek. If he does pan out, given that we won't have to go big for a QB next year, we keep a pile of chips and wind up looking like geniuses. If he doesn't pan out, we have chips to roll again.
I am pulling for the kid. He has as good of a chance as anyone else.
Not bad. This wasn't supposed to be a very good year to need a franchise QB in terms of the supply and demand. They all had enough flaws to be considered projects at best by many draft analysts, scouts, etc. IMO, a team in our shoes can't afford to look for a needle in the haystack with first round QBs at the expense of better players that could help us. I have concerns about Kizer; BUT I really liked getting 3 first round picks in the house before we added him in round 2. One of them might be our next QB's best help (Njoku). He also might be a lot better than many like me are giving him credit for.
It's no secret that QB remains the most important position in football. As we saw in our Terry Bradshaw debate - his first year on a bad team ended with him throwing only 6 TD passes to 24 INTs at passer rating of 30. This era doesn't give QBs 6 years of growing pains and patience so I'm relieved the FO has built up the volumes of 1st and 2nd round picks in 2017 and 2018 (in terms of what we can put around our QB). Like the lyrics say: "Pump up the volume, pump up the volume, pump up the volume..." We can definitely make this a more QB friendly setting via the draft and FA. Not for nothing, if our defense improves to the extent they can stop people, produce turnovers and score points - it helps our QB a lot better than giving him a 7-0 deficit 2-3 minutes into a game.
It's all boiling down to - Can this FO draft? It's now 2 drafts old so we're going to find out real soon. In the meantime, I don't see anything good coming out of widespread negativity in a place that has already lost its franchise. None of these new players coming in have anything to do with the bad drafting that has gone on here since 1999. I doubt any of them want to experience growing pains or fail on their life long dreams either. That's just my 2 cents...
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Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
Point taken... but I'm giving it another month.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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