FO report card
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Great read Mud!
Bill Parcells always liked to say "you are what your record says you are." Having said that, I doubt he liked saying that very often during the first year he almost got fired taking over the dumpster fire in NY back in 1983. Back then, he had to be thinking "we are who are QB says we are." Phil Simms got hurt early on as Scott Brunner QBed them to 3-9. How much did they need LT off the edge when they didn't have very many leads to protect?
It's tough to make very many conclusions about a rookie FO; but I liked getting 3 first round picks in 2016. I also like knowing we have 2 picks in round 1 and 3 in round 2 next year (that's 5 picks). It's also been said it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft while we're waiting to see which way things go with the 2 Colemans, Ogbah, DeValve, Drango, Kindred, Higgins, Nassib and Kessler. Is talent or experience their biggest enemy? Danny Shelton sure looked a lot better in his 2nd year than he did in his first right?
As much as I thought Zeke Elliott was the best pick in the 2016 draft, there's been periods of time Crow has averaged over 6 yards a carry as a rookie and early on in 2016 when both OGs were healthy/starting. As much as people like to trash our line for its pass pro, Crow ended up with 4.8 yards per carry all the while Zeke got to run behind the best line in football last year. Suffice it to say, Crow was 1 guy we didn't need to upgrade.
Keep in mind, our first 2 picks in the 2014 draft were already out of the NFL as early as 2016 while Erving has yet to perform like a 1st round talent. The rookie FO at least got some exchange value back from Pittsburgh for Gilbert. If the FO in 2014 drafted Khalil Mack and Derek Carr especially in spots we could have drafted them - doesn't that already solve huge needs like edge rush and QB? The Raiders are really happy about their overall impact to their turn around and rightfully so.
Other things I like that this FO has done are:
Traded for Jamie Collins and gave him a new contract.
Gave Bitonio a new contract.
Gave Kirksey a new contract.
They brought in Zeitler as well as enough competition to upgrade the 1st round Center Farmer drafted.
Got rid of Candy Lee.
I'd like to add Gregg Williams but he already clarified in his presser Hue is the reason he's here.
Unfortunately, I HATE 1-15 football so the biggest question this FO has to answer is - Can you draft?
Great read Mud!
Bill Parcells always liked to say "you are what your record says you are." Having said that, I doubt he liked saying that very often during the first year he almost got fired taking over the dumpster fire in NY back in 1983. Back then, he had to be thinking "we are who are QB says we are." Phil Simms got hurt early on as Scott Brunner QBed them to 3-9. How much did they need LT off the edge when they didn't have very many leads to protect?
It's tough to make very many conclusions about a rookie FO; but I liked getting 3 first round picks in 2016. I also like knowing we have 2 picks in round 1 and 3 in round 2 next year (that's 5 picks). It's also been said it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft while we're waiting to see which way things go with the 2 Colemans, Ogbah, DeValve, Drango, Kindred, Higgins, Nassib and Kessler. Is talent or experience their biggest enemy? Danny Shelton sure looked a lot better in his 2nd year than he did in his first right?
As much as I thought Zeke Elliott was the best pick in the 2016 draft, there's been periods of time Crow has averaged over 6 yards a carry as a rookie and early on in 2016 when both OGs were healthy/starting. As much as people like to trash our line for its pass pro, Crow ended up with 4.8 yards per carry all the while Zeke got to run behind the best line in football last year. Suffice it to say, Crow was 1 guy we didn't need to upgrade.
Keep in mind, our first 2 picks in the 2014 draft were already out of the NFL as early as 2016 while Erving has yet to perform like a 1st round talent. The rookie FO at least got some exchange value back from Pittsburgh for Gilbert. If the FO in 2014 drafted Khalil Mack and Derek Carr especially in spots we could have drafted them - doesn't that already solve huge needs like edge rush and QB? The Raiders are really happy about their overall impact to their turn around and rightfully so.
Other things I like that this FO has done are:
Traded for Jamie Collins and gave him a new contract.
Gave Bitonio a new contract.
Gave Kirksey a new contract.
They brought in Zeitler as well as enough competition to upgrade the 1st round Center Farmer drafted.
Got rid of Candy Lee.
I'd like to add Gregg Williams but he already clarified in his presser Hue is the reason he's here.
Unfortunately, I HATE 1-15 football so the biggest question this FO has to answer is - Can you draft?
Tom, here is the Cliffs notes version of your post, at least as I see it.
By having a lot of picks, even if we are average at talent assessment, we win. However, early results would indicate that we did have some success at adding some talent. Not yet the big offensive playmakers, but for sure an improvement.
My two cents is that the FO recognizes we need a franchise QB. Going big in the draft is still the best chance of finding the guy, but statistically it isn't a guarantee. This task is at best, a crap shoot. So do you gamble it all on a roll of the dice, or do you keep some chips in your bank and play something a little less risky?
There is no right or wrong answer here. There is no guarantee. The Browns FO, by taking Kizer has kept some chips for other rolls, and at the same time, put the team in the game. Like Kizer or not, his pick gives the Browns a potential upside of finding the QB solution we seek. If he does pan out, given that we won't have to go big for a QB next year, we keep a pile of chips and wind up looking like geniuses. If he doesn't pan out, we have chips to roll again.
I am pulling for the kid. He has as good of a chance as anyone else.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
Sybil
lol...
Wow, this is the most sensible post of yours I've read in a while. Though to be fair I don't read most of your posts. I can honestly say I agree with a good portion of it.
I may have to take him off my ignore button if he keeps staying sensible. I like this version far more and look forward to the permanent change.
Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
It always amazes me that folks claim to ignore me, yet still know what I post. Funny stuff.
In any case, I want to see these guys succeed, I don't care who predicted what. Even me.
Not that big a mystery. When posts are quoted, ignore is bypassed.
Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
My potentially buying TBB would be to grow and improve it, not to acquire a playground. I already have plenty of playgrounds. My partner and I are in the acceptance stage of accepting a Venture Capital offer for a portion of a new water technology we invented and patented. I like to build things, and I would do the same with TBB.
I am exploring the potential interest, and associated costs with getting a gaggle of sports reporters, national and local, as well as players, current and former to participate here. Maybe short pop ins to the Tavern, perhaps a 3 - question per week column by Browns writers. The investment into buying the board is peanuts, the real costs lie in the expenditures and promises that would be required to get participation from the NFL and editorial world.
It can be done, and it would fire this place up. Calculating the returns for such an investment is the hard part. There is potential here, I just don't know how much. the NFL tends to be vicious mercenaries towards anything that dares to take away from them. That is the big obstacle in taking this to the next step. I don't know what our potential growth in members would be.
However, if I did buy it, it wouldn't be to piss anyone off, or to ruin the fun. I have already demonstrated my mastery of that.
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Great read Mud!
Bill Parcells always liked to say "you are what your record says you are." Having said that, I doubt he liked saying that very often during the first year he almost got fired taking over the dumpster fire in NY back in 1983. Back then, he had to be thinking "we are who are QB says we are." Phil Simms got hurt early on as Scott Brunner QBed them to 3-9. How much did they need LT off the edge when they didn't have very many leads to protect?
It's tough to make very many conclusions about a rookie FO; but I liked getting 3 first round picks in 2016. I also like knowing we have 2 picks in round 1 and 3 in round 2 next year (that's 5 picks). It's also been said it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft while we're waiting to see which way things go with the 2 Colemans, Ogbah, DeValve, Drango, Kindred, Higgins, Nassib and Kessler. Is talent or experience their biggest enemy? Danny Shelton sure looked a lot better in his 2nd year than he did in his first right?
As much as I thought Zeke Elliott was the best pick in the 2016 draft, there's been periods of time Crow has averaged over 6 yards a carry as a rookie and early on in 2016 when both OGs were healthy/starting. As much as people like to trash our line for its pass pro, Crow ended up with 4.8 yards per carry all the while Zeke got to run behind the best line in football last year. Suffice it to say, Crow was 1 guy we didn't need to upgrade.
Keep in mind, our first 2 picks in the 2014 draft were already out of the NFL as early as 2016 while Erving has yet to perform like a 1st round talent. The rookie FO at least got some exchange value back from Pittsburgh for Gilbert. If the FO in 2014 drafted Khalil Mack and Derek Carr especially in spots we could have drafted them - doesn't that already solve huge needs like edge rush and QB? The Raiders are really happy about their overall impact to their turn around and rightfully so.
Other things I like that this FO has done are:
Traded for Jamie Collins and gave him a new contract.
Gave Bitonio a new contract.
Gave Kirksey a new contract.
They brought in Zeitler as well as enough competition to upgrade the 1st round Center Farmer drafted.
Got rid of Candy Lee.
I'd like to add Gregg Williams but he already clarified in his presser Hue is the reason he's here.
Unfortunately, I HATE 1-15 football so the biggest question this FO has to answer is - Can you draft?
Tom, here is the Cliffs notes version of your post, at least as I see it.
By having a lot of picks, even if we are average at talent assessment, we win. However, early results would indicate that we did have some success at adding some talent. Not yet the big offensive playmakers, but for sure an improvement.
My two cents is that the FO recognizes we need a franchise QB. Going big in the draft is still the best chance of finding the guy, but statistically it isn't a guarantee. This task is at best, a crap shoot. So do you gamble it all on a roll of the dice, or do you keep some chips in your bank and play something a little less risky?
There is no right or wrong answer here. There is no guarantee. The Browns FO, by taking Kizer has kept some chips for other rolls, and at the same time, put the team in the game. Like Kizer or not, his pick gives the Browns a potential upside of finding the QB solution we seek. If he does pan out, given that we won't have to go big for a QB next year, we keep a pile of chips and wind up looking like geniuses. If he doesn't pan out, we have chips to roll again.
I am pulling for the kid. He has as good of a chance as anyone else.
Tom, here is the Cliffs notes version of your post, at least as I see it.
By having a lot of picks, even if we are average at talent assessment, we win. However, early results would indicate that we did have some success at adding some talent. Not yet the big offensive playmakers, but for sure an improvement.
My two cents is that the FO recognizes we need a franchise QB. Going big in the draft is still the best chance of finding the guy, but statistically it isn't a guarantee. This task is at best, a crap shoot. So do you gamble it all on a roll of the dice, or do you keep some chips in your bank and play something a little less risky?
There is no right or wrong answer here. There is no guarantee. The Browns FO, by taking Kizer has kept some chips for other rolls, and at the same time, put the team in the game. Like Kizer or not, his pick gives the Browns a potential upside of finding the QB solution we seek. If he does pan out, given that we won't have to go big for a QB next year, we keep a pile of chips and wind up looking like geniuses. If he doesn't pan out, we have chips to roll again.
I am pulling for the kid. He has as good of a chance as anyone else.
Not bad. This wasn't supposed to be a very good year to need a franchise QB in terms of the supply and demand. They all had enough flaws to be considered projects at best by many draft analysts, scouts, etc. IMO, a team in our shoes can't afford to look for a needle in the haystack with first round QBs at the expense of better players that could help us. I have concerns about Kizer; BUT I really liked getting 3 first round picks in the house before we added him in round 2. One of them might be our next QB's best help (Njoku). He also might be a lot better than many like me are giving him credit for.
It's no secret that QB remains the most important position in football. As we saw in our Terry Bradshaw debate - his first year on a bad team ended with him throwing only 6 TD passes to 24 INTs at passer rating of 30. This era doesn't give QBs 6 years of growing pains and patience so I'm relieved the FO has built up the volumes of 1st and 2nd round picks in 2017 and 2018 (in terms of what we can put around our QB). Like the lyrics say: "Pump up the volume, pump up the volume, pump up the volume..." We can definitely make this a more QB friendly setting via the draft and FA. Not for nothing, if our defense improves to the extent they can stop people, produce turnovers and score points - it helps our QB a lot better than giving him a 7-0 deficit 2-3 minutes into a game.
It's all boiling down to - Can this FO draft? It's now 2 drafts old so we're going to find out real soon. In the meantime, I don't see anything good coming out of widespread negativity in a place that has already lost its franchise. None of these new players coming in have anything to do with the bad drafting that has gone on here since 1999. I doubt any of them want to experience growing pains or fail on their life long dreams either. That's just my 2 cents...
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Ditto... but I've been fooled before.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
Point taken... but I'm giving it another month.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them?
Anyway the ones we drafted this year haven't played a snap yet so who knows?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Actually, if he's serious about acquiring TBB then he can't very well continue as the biggest hater of all things Cleveland Browns can he? He would want to attract fans and not try to make them disgusted with ownership, the FO, the coach(es), the drafted players, the FA players, the existing players, the water boy, the toilet cleaners, parking attendants, etc. etc.
Point taken... but I'm giving it another month.
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Well done Mud.
This front office hasn't proven anything yet and some in here will say, "give it time", which should be the Browns Fan Motto
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In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them?
Anyway the ones we drafted this year haven't played a snap yet so who knows?
WSS
In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them?
Anyway the ones we drafted this year haven't played a snap yet so who knows?
WSS
Per one report that I saw said that none of the Browns rookies last year even rated among the top 50 rookie performers in 2016. So, there is that. Whether or not some of these guys will come around remains to be seen.
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In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them?
Anyway the ones we drafted this year haven't played a snap yet so who knows?
WSS
Per one report that I saw said that none of the Browns rookies last year even rated among the top 50 rookie performers in 2016. So, there is that. Whether or not some of these guys will come around remains to be seen.
Per one report that I saw said that none of the Browns rookies last year even rated among the top 50 rookie performers in 2016. So, there is that. Whether or not some of these guys will come around remains to be seen.
Keep this in mind Gips, Antonio Brown only had 16 receptions for 167 yards 10.4 ypc 0 TD when he was a rookie. Should I give a rat where he ranked that year overall? Or, should I worry more about where he has continued to rank at WR overall the last 5 years or so? Yes, many in here would have concluded that the best WR in football today should have been cut because he needed a second year to emerge. That's the type of crowd you really want to follow jumping off a high bridge; because you just know they were thorough enough to see how deep the water was and if there were any huge rocks or objects to beware below...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them?
Anyway the ones we drafted this year haven't played a snap yet so who knows?
WSS
In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them? - Steve
Vince Young was a Rookie of the Year and so was RG3. Did that guarantee long term success in either case? Ironically, both came here. 1 of them couldn't even make the team while the other never stayed long enough for a second cup of coffee. - Flugel
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Per one report that I saw said that none of the Browns rookies last year even rated among the top 50 rookie performers in 2016. So, there is that. Whether or not some of these guys will come around remains to be seen.
Keep this in mind Gips, Antonio Brown only had 16 receptions for 167 yards 10.4 ypc 0 TD when he was a rookie. Should I give a rat where he ranked that year overall? Or, should I worry more about where he has continued to rank at WR overall the last 5 years or so? Yes, many in here would have concluded that the best WR in football today should have been cut because he needed a second year to emerge. That's the type of crowd you really want to follow jumping off a high bridge; because you just know they were thorough enough to see how deep the water was and if there were any huge rocks or objects to beware below...
Keep this in mind Gips, Antonio Brown only had 16 receptions for 167 yards 10.4 ypc 0 TD when he was a rookie. Should I give a rat where he ranked that year overall? Or, should I worry more about where he has continued to rank at WR overall the last 5 years or so? Yes, many in here would have concluded that the best WR in football today should have been cut because he needed a second year to emerge. That's the type of crowd you really want to follow jumping off a high bridge; because you just know they were thorough enough to see how deep the water was and if there were any huge rocks or objects to beware below...
We are talking here about a "Front Office Report Card"...so my post simply says that after the first grading period, they are not doing that well (if you go by the no rookies in top 50 report).....there are a number of other grading periods to go. And maybe they can do some voluntary detention and pick up some extra credit along the way.
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In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them? - Steve
Vince Young was a Rookie of the Year and so was RG3. Did that guarantee long term success in either case? Ironically, both came here. 1 of them couldn't even make the team while the other never stayed long enough for a second cup of coffee. - Flugel
In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them? - Steve
Vince Young was a Rookie of the Year and so was RG3. Did that guarantee long term success in either case? Ironically, both came here. 1 of them couldn't even make the team while the other never stayed long enough for a second cup of coffee. - Flugel
So...let's hope that a guy that went 0-8 his first year turns out to be a superstar in the long run? Fine with me.
We don't need no 'flash in the pan".
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Keep this in mind Gips, Antonio Brown only had 16 receptions for 167 yards 10.4 ypc 0 TD when he was a rookie. Should I give a rat where he ranked that year overall? Or, should I worry more about where he has continued to rank at WR overall the last 5 years or so? Yes, many in here would have concluded that the best WR in football today should have been cut because he needed a second year to emerge. That's the type of crowd you really want to follow jumping off a high bridge; because you just know they were thorough enough to see how deep the water was and if there were any huge rocks or objects to beware below...
We are talking here about a "Front Office Report Card"...so my post simply says that after the first grading period, they are not doing that well (if you go by the no rookies in top 50 report).....there are a number of other grading periods to go. And maybe they can do some voluntary detention and pick up some extra credit along the way.
We are talking here about a "Front Office Report Card"...so my post simply says that after the first grading period, they are not doing that well (if you go by the no rookies in top 50 report).....there are a number of other grading periods to go. And maybe they can do some voluntary detention and pick up some extra credit along the way.
If it's been said it takes at least 3 years to properly evaluate a draft - why do you want to join those that can't wait to race to conclusions? Antonio Brown didn't make the top 50 of his draft class while Vince Young and RG3 topped their's with ROTY awards. Tom Brady threw only 3 passes and wore blue jeans to most of his games as a rookie. What did we learn about any of them as rookies?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
We are talking here about a "Front Office Report Card"...so my post simply says that after the first grading period, they are not doing that well (if you go by the no rookies in top 50 report).....there are a number of other grading periods to go. And maybe they can do some voluntary detention and pick up some extra credit along the way.
If it's been said it takes at least 3 years to properly evaluate a draft - why do you want to join those that can't wait to race to conclusions? Antonio Brown didn't make the top 50 of his draft class while Vince Young and RG3 topped their's with ROTY awards. Tom Brady threw only 3 passes and wore blue jeans to most of his games as a rookie. What did we learn about any of them as rookies?
If it's been said it takes at least 3 years to properly evaluate a draft - why do you want to join those that can't wait to race to conclusions? Antonio Brown didn't make the top 50 of his draft class while Vince Young and RG3 topped their's with ROTY awards. Tom Brady threw only 3 passes and wore blue jeans to most of his games as a rookie. What did we learn about any of them as rookies?
Fluges....no one is racing to conclusions.....we're grading as we go.....and for year 1, compared to the other rookies also in year 1, our guys didnt perform as well......it's that simple....
Is that a conclusion that they wont improve?.....nope.....Does that mean people want them cut?.....nope......It just means that there were a bunch of rookies who performed better for other teams, than our guys did for us....
So, the only "conclusion", is that in year 1, our guys didnt rate that well......lets see what year 2 brings.....and we will rate that too.....
(as you've listed) There are exceptions to every rule, so some guys blossom late....some guys do well early, then drop off.....and, IDEALLY, some guys do great right out of the gate.....(we just didnt have one of those).....
Id also add that 2 years seems to be the norm....at least with some teams.....IE: DBG, Gilbert, Richardson, Manziel, Weeden and Jamar Taylor, quickly come to mind as Browns who were all dumped at 2 yrs or less....
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In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them? - Steve
Vince Young was a Rookie of the Year and so was RG3. Did that guarantee long term success in either case? Ironically, both came here. 1 of them couldn't even make the team while the other never stayed long enough for a second cup of coffee. - Flugel
So...let's hope that a guy that went 0-8 his first year turns out to be a superstar in the long run? Fine with me.
We don't need no 'flash in the pan".
So...let's hope that a guy that went 0-8 his first year turns out to be a superstar in the long run? Fine with me.
We don't need no 'flash in the pan".
LOL! You mean like the Dallas Cowboys had to after Troy Aikman went 0-11 as a rookie with only 9 TD to 18 INT in 1989? Did he make the top 50 rookies or come close? In 1991 (his 3rd year), he made the Pro Bowl in the first of 6 consecutive Pro Bowls in route to 3 Superbowl Championships and a Hall of Fame career. So, your criteria says it was more important to evaluate the draft Dallas had in 1989 right there in 1989 rather than in 1991 so it could race to give the Dallas FO an F for its selection of Aikman at #1 overall and all those other rookies chipping in their growing pains.
Moving forward, at least hopefully... Did we or didn't we just draft a QB in round 2? Would we do that if we were ecstatic or sure about what we landed from the 2016 supply of QB? Nobody knows for certain what way Kess will go so after drafting 3 guys in the 1st round - they drafted Kizer in round 2 right? This means we can start the year with the somewhat experienced QB kind of like we did with Charlie Frye back in 2007. When that didn't work in the train wreck of an opener - we looked to the little known DA with a stronger arm (than Frye) the next week and won 10 of our last 15 games.
Next year we have 5 picks in the first 2 rounds in what is supposed to be a stronger QB class than 2017 in the event we learn we should still be looking.
Today, we're just as 1-15 as the Dallas Cowboys were in 1989 so I'll remind you when the more appropriate time was to evaluate the 89 draft (in 91). I recommend we evaluate the 2016 draft after the 2018 season.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
If it's been said it takes at least 3 years to properly evaluate a draft - why do you want to join those that can't wait to race to conclusions? Antonio Brown didn't make the top 50 of his draft class while Vince Young and RG3 topped their's with ROTY awards. Tom Brady threw only 3 passes and wore blue jeans to most of his games as a rookie. What did we learn about any of them as rookies?
Fluges....no one is racing to conclusions.....we're grading as we go.....and for year 1, compared to the other rookies also in year 1, our guys didnt perform as well......it's that simple....
Is that a conclusion that they wont improve?.....nope.....Does that mean people want them cut?.....nope......It just means that there were a bunch of rookies who performed better for other teams, than our guys did for us....
So, the only "conclusion", is that in year 1, our guys didnt rate that well......lets see what year 2 brings.....and we will rate that too.....
(as you've listed) There are exceptions to every rule, so some guys blossom late....some guys do well early, then drop off.....and, IDEALLY, some guys do great right out of the gate.....(we just didnt have one of those).....
Id also add that 2 years seems to be the norm....at least with some teams.....IE: DBG, Gilbert, Richardson, Manziel, Weeden and Jamar Taylor, quickly come to mind as Browns who were all dumped at 2 yrs or less....
Fluges....no one is racing to conclusions.....we're grading as we go.....and for year 1, compared to the other rookies also in year 1, our guys didnt perform as well......it's that simple....
Is that a conclusion that they wont improve?.....nope.....Does that mean people want them cut?.....nope......It just means that there were a bunch of rookies who performed better for other teams, than our guys did for us....
So, the only "conclusion", is that in year 1, our guys didnt rate that well......lets see what year 2 brings.....and we will rate that too.....
(as you've listed) There are exceptions to every rule, so some guys blossom late....some guys do well early, then drop off.....and, IDEALLY, some guys do great right out of the gate.....(we just didnt have one of those).....
Id also add that 2 years seems to be the norm....at least with some teams.....IE: DBG, Gilbert, Richardson, Manziel, Weeden and Jamar Taylor, quickly come to mind as Browns who were all dumped at 2 yrs or less....
Fair enough Mud. I won't mind rating the young guys after their 2nd year so I can see who at least shows progress over a more significant span than 1 season.
I really think Shon Coleman is going to be a really good tackle for us and injury slapped a big old incomplete on him. Nassib looked to be off to a great start week 1 vrs Philly and PFF will back this. What happened? He broke his hand, which is a huge nullifier of some very important fundamentals/techniques in the trenches rendering him more exclusive to swim moves and rips. Some times these guys need to 2 hand shiver some 330 lb tackles in the trenches and I can assure that this is very difficult with a broken hand. On top of that, his college career foreshadowed he might be a 2nd year or 3rd year emergence in this level change thanks in large to an insatiable work ethic. Ogbah was kind of raw IMO but I saw some improvement and expect plenty more ahead-especially if we get more talented upfront.
We all know WR isn't an easy gig to learn especially when some of them come in rounds where some degree of patience needs to be held. The last game Corey Coleman played before he broke his hand he had 5 receptions for 100 yards and 2 TDs. That looked to be the exception to the rule/disappointment he showed otherwise.That said, I saw something that a broken hand would prevent any momentum for 6 consecutive weeks after.
Believe it or not, I'm not trying to sell tanning beds in the tropics here. I know I'm probably sounding like the ultimate homer looking for a game face but I think we could very well see some sophs from our 2106 draft class emerge. Meanwhile, we'll hope the 2nd draft class of this FO has more sudden impact than their first one. We shall see.
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In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them? - Steve
Vince Young was a Rookie of the Year and so was RG3. Did that guarantee long term success in either case? Ironically, both came here. 1 of them couldn't even make the team while the other never stayed long enough for a second cup of coffee. - Flugel
True enough. Still they were good for at least a season which is probably better than not ever being good.In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them? - Steve
Vince Young was a Rookie of the Year and so was RG3. Did that guarantee long term success in either case? Ironically, both came here. 1 of them couldn't even make the team while the other never stayed long enough for a second cup of coffee. - Flugel
And keep in mind that while it may work out eventually we passed on the best prospects at the positions we supposedly needed, safety, qb and tight end and went to The Bargain Bin.
Which only means grading the front office needs to be done down the road.
WSS
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True enough. Still they were good for at least a season which is probably better than not ever being good.In order to answer that question I have to ask this 1. How any of the players they drafted anywhere close to being in contention for rookie of the year? Any of them? - Steve
Vince Young was a Rookie of the Year and so was RG3. Did that guarantee long term success in either case? Ironically, both came here. 1 of them couldn't even make the team while the other never stayed long enough for a second cup of coffee. - Flugel
And keep in mind that while it may work out eventually we passed on the best prospects at the positions we supposedly needed, safety, qb and tight end and went to The Bargain Bin.
Which only means grading the front office needs to be done down the road.
WSS
True enough. Still they were good for at least a season which is probably better than not ever being good.
And keep in mind that while it may work out eventually we passed on the best prospects at the positions we supposedly needed, safety, qb and tight end and went to The Bargain Bin.
Which only means grading the front office needs to be done down the road.
WSS
We passed up some guys that had 1-2 injuries like the 1 year starter Malik Hooker. Hooker had surgery on a torn labrum. While that may sound like no big deal especially to our Buckeye fans, NFL physics mean he'll be playing in space colliding with bigger, faster, stronger all the time. He also needed surgery for a hernia. That's a lot of wear and tear for a guy that only started 1 season. Turns out, he slid to Indy at #15 overall. He probably would have gone in the top 7 if he didn't have an injured flipper.
We weren't the only team that passed on Reuben Foster either, who had a shoulder injury that needed reconstructive surgery with rumor lingering he may need another. SF drafted him at #31 after drafting a healthy Solomon Thomas much earlier. The guy I really wanted us to draft at #12 was OJ Howard (who wasn't injured); but he wasn't drafted until 19th overall by Tampa. So, there's 3 prospects many of us were eyeing at #12 that didn't come off the board until #15, #19 and #31 overall.
Try to think about how frustrated you are about Garrett for a second while we factor why they played it safe avoiding some prospects coming off injuries/surgeries. Like I said recently, I don't think Njoku will be that big of a drop off from Howard. And I liked Mud's reply to me that he thinks he has a bigger upside than Howard. Their biggest difference at this time is Howard played 4 years of college ball while Njoku only played 2 (Howard is 22 & Njoku is 20). Howard returned to work on his consistency blocking while Njoku will have to improve his blocking at the next level. The other 1st round pick was Peppers that has played Safety, Corner and LBer roles aside from what he did on Special Teams and Offense. Sounds like nice gridiron chess piece...
As for the QB position, this draft might have been the biggest crapshoot of my life at the position. Just about any QB prospect invited polarization. Meanwhile, Bears' fans looked miserable when they traded up for Trubisky at #2. We'll see...
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We are talking here about a "Front Office Report Card"...so my post simply says that after the first grading period, they are not doing that well (if you go by the no rookies in top 50 report).....there are a number of other grading periods to go. And maybe they can do some voluntary detention and pick up some extra credit along the way.
If it's been said it takes at least 3 years to properly evaluate a draft - why do you want to join those that can't wait to race to conclusions? Antonio Brown didn't make the top 50 of his draft class while Vince Young and RG3 topped their's with ROTY awards. Tom Brady threw only 3 passes and wore blue jeans to most of his games as a rookie. What did we learn about any of them as rookies?
If it's been said it takes at least 3 years to properly evaluate a draft - why do you want to join those that can't wait to race to conclusions? Antonio Brown didn't make the top 50 of his draft class while Vince Young and RG3 topped their's with ROTY awards. Tom Brady threw only 3 passes and wore blue jeans to most of his games as a rookie. What did we learn about any of them as rookies?
Hello! I said it was early....only the first grading period. While they may have only about a D or C- so far, there is time to pull up their grades. I am simply going along with the gist of the thread. This is grade school....where you get a report card every 6 weeks or so....not law school...where you study from September to June then take one test at the end to determine your grade. (yep, that is the way it is in law school)
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