Tiamat's 2017 Camp observations and thoughts
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Good stuff man
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Keep this good stuff coming!
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That was great stuff.
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Very good info. I think the game is on espn monday. So I hope to see Dayes run. From what I've read on here he has been a beast, possibly a steal.
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Very good info. I think the game is on espn monday. So I hope to see Dayes run. From what I've read on here he has been a beast, possibly a steal.
Very good info. I think the game is on espn monday. So I hope to see Dayes run. From what I've read on here he has been a beast, possibly a steal.
only if fuck face hue will call a running play
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Very good info. I think the game is on espn monday. So I hope to see Dayes run. From what I've read on here he has been a beast, possibly a steal.
only if fuck face hue will call a running play
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Apologies for the delay, I've only got about half of my info typed out. I'll post what I have now while I have a free moment at work. More to come so enjoy.
Had to short hand a lot of this shit so I'll pretty much just go down the line.
When lining up for defensive alignments starting 11 looked like this.
RE- Garrett
LE - Ogbah
1tech - Danny
3/4tech - Bryant
WLB - Collins (vs 21 and 22 personnel under center)
MIKE - Tank
SLB - Kirk - off topic, his helmet visor is fucking siiiiiiiick.
Boundary Corner - Taylor
Field Corner - Calhoun. I noticed they actually played those spots and didn't switch. Might have been for practice only, not sure on that.
SS - Kindred
FS - Kai Though a lot of players saw looks at this spot.
2nd team line - Nassib, Orchard, Coley and Ogunjobi up front with Shult, Brantley and Meder jumping in and around up front.
Of Note: Schobert in the middle, though he too saw snaps on first team in certain packages.
DB's are a real problem on this team. You can't get to the QB every play, you just can't. Sure hits and sacks over time take their toll but you have a HoF bound QB in your division with two other above average ones.
Even with Haden this unit is most likely the glaring weakness of the team until they can prove otherwise. There's just nobody with the combination of range and experience with instincts to successfully man deep centee from game 1 to game 16 and play at a high level. Peppers got some work back in the deep third and while he didn't look incredibly out of place, he didn't inspire a feeling of Earl Thomas robbing someone over the top going far hash to sideline. A couple times he took a whacky ass angle that just shows how many snaps he needs before he can command the position. I'd also like to point out the tackling of this unit could be a concern. Eyes up, see your target is a real thing, boys. Kai was somewhat similar when deep center, can't quite cover the ground to get underneath or on top once he's looked off. Took angles that were just fine, but elite range is also not his strong suite. All in all, when they weren't having balls thrown right at them or passes delivered late, I failed to be impressed by this group.
OL - JT, Bito, Tretter, Greco and Haden didn't practice.
Things that stood out. The left side held their own in the run game, Garrett got chipped quite a bit but kept fighting. In pass pro, he should have drawn AT LEAST 2 holding calls.
Cam Erving - I don't beat this horse to death anymore. If he's on the team at final cuts then it's a decision beyond my understanding or education. He was simply handled more often than not. Coach Williams even shit talked him. Zeitler looked damn good. Fired off the ball, played his leverage and hands well. Shon had a couple moments where he didn't anchor down after his kick step and Nassib then Ogbah bulled him back a bit. But all in all another solid solid from him. He won't wow you, but he certainly won't hurt you either. Tour had him targeted since his evals and I must say, bravo. Just needs to keep polishing his game.
DL - for the most part, kicked fucking ass in the pass rush. Limiting the run got dicey at times. Danny had some great moments in the Oline/Dline drills and the runs torn off today were cutbacks that went away from him. The player that began to emerge last year is there, you can see it. I just hope he's saving it for the regular season and staying healthy. Mainly because aside from him and Coley, our interior presence to run stuff is just awful. Meder really struggled today and I'm wondering if he makes this team. Bryant I'll say straight up was pushed around on early downs as well. At the moment, Des is a liability in that regard. Coley needs to be in there and I'd like to say that I've harped a ton on hand usage every time I watch ANY lineman. Trevon looks like he's trying to knock you the fuck out with his hands. They're heavy, they're violent and he lands his punches everytime. In pass rush drills he was more than a handful to go against. I love seeing the late round and UDFA's come along. If he takes more steps towards consistency, you have a very solid player on your team. About Garrett - no sacks that I saw. Should have drawn two holding calls when he was singled up. Maybe even a third but the zebra's didn't toss any laundry today for that. He played some weakside open end, he played some strong side end. Worked against double teams from a tackle and chip help where he'll need to remember to not get high in his stance. He slanted inside to open a rush lane for a backer, he was working on his spin more in position drills (a spin move he needs to tighten up quite a bit) and per usual, stayed after practice to run some wind sprints. Actually, several of the dline and backers did with him leading the way. Very encouraging.
Brantley has the fastest get off of all our lineman. That includes Coop. If he puts it together, the technique, the leverage, the pad level... holy shit. I was there with one of my team mates, my center, and the first words out of his mouth "Fuck no, I feel bad for the guards that get singled up on him". Still needs to get stronger but his hands are violent as well. So violent he got in a bit of a fight with Shon and coach Hue pulled him aside for a talk.
LB's - Holy hell where to begin on combinations. This is a team looking for its identity at the position group. Jamie saw time in the middle, WLB and SLB. Hell, Jamie saw time at 15 yards deep stepping forward into a hook read over the middle looking for shallow crossers. Dude was being placed everywhere. I was fucking shocked he wasn't the guy selling nachos at one point. Tank manned the middle against heavy packages. If something comes at him, he's golden. If he's faced with a stretch where he has to flow laterally, stay square then either shoot a gap, get underneath or make it to the perimeter, then his effectiveness is just not there. He was sent on a 5 man pressure quite often from the MIKE. Never once did I see him track a back or slide over a #3. Two down linebacker in every sense of the word unless some minor miracle happens in the next few weeks. Kirksey played mostly weak side. In the 2 minute drills, Oz was faced with a 6 man pressure with Kirk lined up over Devalve. Kirk got a good punch at the line, stayed on his hip and burst underneath for a tip on an 10yard out that Brock had locked onto the whole way. Regardless of the read, it was a great cover play and while the crowd gave that familiar ''awwww" (pass not being complete) I yelled "way to say on his hip, Kirk!". I make no apologies for seeing solid defensive play and you fuckers are too obsessed with offense. Schobert was the man in the middle in the passing drills being rotated in and out with Kirk while Jamie never left the field. Ultimately I think the position will be split subpackage and matchup wise between Jamie and Joe. Tank for late down and short distance, goal line and special teams.
RB - Crow had a couple ok runs but did his best work towards the end of practice when he cutback across the face of Des, slipped Kirk and was given two monstrous blocks by Higgins that sprung him free. Good patience and good vision. Duke didn't do much work carrying, he's clearly being worked in as a receiver against backers and safeties. Had a power look from the gun in a trey look for 4 yards. Every other time he was in the slot. I'd caution our coaching staff as to the lineups because when Duke was on the LOS and Corey was off, the latter went to the 9 because nobody could get a clean jam on him. When Duke was flexed off, Corey had an 8 and a hitch tossed his way then later a 10 yard out. I called the go and while Kess threw a great ball and Corey got by Jamar, D coords around the league make life changing money to pick up on this shit. Of course it's also attributed to getting mostly vanilla looks when practice is open to the public. Dayes had the most impressive run of the day with a cutback and spin move rolling off Kirk then accelerating up the sideline for 17 yards.
I'll post what I have now.. More to come so enjoy. Ignore if I jump the Gun
3/4tech - Bryant--Enough Depth at position if traded?
MIKE - Tank-never did like his lateral either
SLB - Kirk - helmet visor is fucking siiiiiiiick.mirrored?
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SS - Kindred--nice he's back with Campbell out
FS - Kai Though a lot of players saw looks at this spot. McCourtny/Pryor?
2nd team line - Coley--I was shocked by this guys size & arm length and Ogunjobi--what did you see here,ahead of Meder?
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DB's There's just nobody with the combination of range and experience with instincts to successfully man deep centee from game 1 to game 16 and play at a high level.. Was draftee Wilson from Houston anywhere on field?
Cam Erving - Coach Williams even shit talked him. they'd call you Big Tit Turd Erv at my school Shon Coleman- Just needs to keep polishing his game.great to hear..
DL - Meder really struggled today and I'm wondering if he makes this team.Not great to hear. Bryant I'll say straight up was pushed around on early downs as well. At the moment, Des is a liability in that regard. Coley needs to be in there and I'd like to say that I've harped a ton on hand usage every time I watch ANY lineman. Trevon looks like he's trying to knock you the fuck out with his hands. They're heavy, they're violent and he lands his punches everytime. AGREED,but got to keep 1? Des or Meder Should have drawn two holding calls when he was singled up. Maybe even a third but the zebra's didn't toss any laundry today for that.Got the right guy at camp to complain about refs still. Who are these refs? NFL scrubs,Ncaa,HS in area?
Brantley has the fastest get off of all our lineman. That includes Coop. If he puts it together, the technique, the leverage, the pad level... holy shit. I was there with one of my team mates, my center, and the first words out of his mouth "Fuck no, I feel bad for the guards that get singled up on him". NICE did not play much preseason 1.attention getter
LB's - I was fucking shocked he wasn't the guy selling nachos at one point. Sure he was Tank-- Two down linebacker in every sense of the word unless some minor miracle happens in the next few weeks. LB & CB maybe WR--Am lost on this final cut down. Do we not get the 1st waiver crack at all these guys that hit waivers?
RB -Not sure when this well paid O-line will see time to gell on timing but Hue should be all in on running the rock down some throats
Awesome Camp Report Tia..Threw up some stuff in Red. They can wait till your later visits if needed..Again Solid Stuff & Hope we get more Mary-less Reports
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I'll post what I have now.. More to come so enjoy. Ignore if I jump the Gun
3/4tech - Bryant--Enough Depth at position if traded?
MIKE - Tank-never did like his lateral either
SLB - Kirk - helmet visor is fucking siiiiiiiick.mirrored?
.
SS - Kindred--nice he's back with Campbell out
FS - Kai Though a lot of players saw looks at this spot. McCourtny/Pryor?
2nd team line - Coley--I was shocked by this guys size & arm length and Ogunjobi--what did you see here,ahead of Meder?
,
DB's There's just nobody with the combination of range and experience with instincts to successfully man deep centee from game 1 to game 16 and play at a high level.. Was draftee Wilson from Houston anywhere on field?
Cam Erving - Coach Williams even shit talked him. they'd call you Big Tit Turd Erv at my school Shon Coleman- Just needs to keep polishing his game.great to hear..
DL - Meder really struggled today and I'm wondering if he makes this team.Not great to hear. Bryant I'll say straight up was pushed around on early downs as well. At the moment, Des is a liability in that regard. Coley needs to be in there and I'd like to say that I've harped a ton on hand usage every time I watch ANY lineman. Trevon looks like he's trying to knock you the fuck out with his hands. They're heavy, they're violent and he lands his punches everytime. AGREED,but got to keep 1? Des or Meder Should have drawn two holding calls when he was singled up. Maybe even a third but the zebra's didn't toss any laundry today for that.Got the right guy at camp to complain about refs still. Who are these refs? NFL scrubs,Ncaa,HS in area?
Brantley has the fastest get off of all our lineman. That includes Coop. If he puts it together, the technique, the leverage, the pad level... holy shit. I was there with one of my team mates, my center, and the first words out of his mouth "Fuck no, I feel bad for the guards that get singled up on him". NICE did not play much preseason 1.attention getter
LB's - I was fucking shocked he wasn't the guy selling nachos at one point. Sure he was Tank-- Two down linebacker in every sense of the word unless some minor miracle happens in the next few weeks. LB & CB maybe WR--Am lost on this final cut down. Do we not get the 1st waiver crack at all these guys that hit waivers?
RB -Not sure when this well paid O-line will see time to gell on timing but Hue should be all in on running the rock down some throats
Awesome Camp Report Tia..Threw up some stuff in Red. They can wait till your later visits if needed..Again Solid Stuff & Hope we get more Mary-less Reports
Awesome Camp Report Tia..Threw up some stuff in Red. They can wait till your later visits if needed..Again Solid Stuff & Hope we get more Mary-less Reports
I've got more coming, I didn't expect to put in 12 hours today. My fault all around, fellas.
To answer your questions in order.
- Yes there's enough depth but it's unproven depth. Coley & Brantley would be next up. However Des is still great at pushing the pocket in the live passing drills. Coach Williams LOVES pass rushers.
- Kirk's visor is mirrored and its nasty.
- McCourty sat. Pryor didn't get any looks in the single high stuff as deep center field. Kai, Kindred and Peppers.
- Larry needs some work physically but I fear, like Meder, he's maxed out. Ultimately he showed better than Meder which is why I said on the bubble.
- Between Des or Meder it's Des.
- Couldn't tell who the refs were but I saw the clear holds on Myles
- Not sure about waiver priority but I'll tell you team need stands as QB, DB & WR in that order at the moment.
- Oline looks to be getting rest for the dress rehearsal game 4. I suspect you'll get a long look at them then.
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Get used to the uncalled holds with Myles. SEC Jr NFL rarely even called the rodeo bulldogs around the neck as he'd blow by. Those O linemen would rather take the chance than they would have their QB blindsided. Refs rarely make that call with him unless someone clearly is holding the back of his jersey without letting go for more than a couple of seconds after he has gotten past. It's not right but that's how it is.
And I too thought game 3 is the dress rehearsal. But you never know since this crew wants to go into the season on a winning run.
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I thought game 3 was dress rehearsal?
Errrr 3. Good correction.
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Thanks for the reporting.
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Whatcha drinking tonight Syd?
it was Rum
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Whatcha drinking tonight Syd?
it was Rum
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I think Meader will be a casualty.
I didn't like the fact that he had to play LAST year...because our DL was in such need.
I know that he blocked a kick that helped us get our only win...and for that I'm eternally grateful to him. (I REALLY wanted our guys to get at least ONE freakin' lousy win...and be able to smile at one another after a game).
I'm sure Meader is a great guy, works his tail off, etc. etc. But I'd like to have better football players.
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I think Meader will be a casualty.
I didn't like the fact that he had to play LAST year...because our DL was in such need.
I know that he blocked a kick that helped us get our only win...and for that I'm eternally grateful to him. (I REALLY wanted our guys to get at least ONE freakin' lousy win...and be able to smile at one another after a game).
I'm sure Meader is a great guy, works his tail off, etc. etc. But I'd like to have better football players.
I think Meader will be a casualty.
I didn't like the fact that he had to play LAST year...because our DL was in such need.
I know that he blocked a kick that helped us get our only win...and for that I'm eternally grateful to him. (I REALLY wanted our guys to get at least ONE freakin' lousy win...and be able to smile at one another after a game).
I'm sure Meader is a great guy, works his tail off, etc. etc. But I'd like to have better football players.
Here is why I think he remains on the team: From Terry Pluto
Williams said: "A defensive lineman has a fist fight in a phone booth for three hours, then he has to run back-and-forth." He was explaining why he wants to play most of his linemen around 50 percent of the snaps to keep them fresh. He mentioned Myles Garrett playing 80-90 snaps at Texas A&M last season. "You can't play 80 snaps."
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In the words of Pac - "part 2, still ballin".
Follow up notes from all the short hand I put down.
- Garrett OWNED Rod Johnson. Like, it was bad. What I saw was illegal in at least 6 different states.
- A lot of 21 personnel groupings. Didn't see any of the gun with the double back side pulls like I witnessed with RG3 last year.
- With that 21 personnel came a lot of 4 wide and bunch sets and as you can imagine, Duke split into the slot role. Surprisingly flex on the LOS quite a bit. He beat Currie on a Texas (angle route for some of you) and Oz never looked his way.
- Nothing in the way of flanker or TE's screens that I saw. No package plays for Peppers. Entirely possible it's being withheld or not happening at all. Again, carries on offense take their toll.
- His throwing motion might look better but his ball action fake is still shit. Kizer HAS to sell that stretch better otherwise he's going to get splattered by backside pursuit after the fake.
- Ricardo not only looks night and day better from last year but he didn't bobble a single catch. Had a great backshoulder adjustment against man thrown by Oz. Then Kess had a bad overthrow on a 12 yard comeback. You could tell Louis was frustrated by that because he stuck his left hand down and yelled where he wanted the ball placed.
- Hue is still trying to set our QB's up with easy reads quite often. And no, I don't just mean Kizer. Motion to some flood was pretty common.
- Your 'move' TE looks to be a feature this year. 21 and 31 personnel had Devalve flying all over the place
- More open/weak side runs than last year. Which is encouraging to see as Crow and Dayes both played the cutbacks well throughout the day.
- I was surprised how effective Fabiano was at combo blocking. As a center, that's kind of his bread and butter... but he worked off initial contact and got the second level a couple times and did it in a hurry.
All in all, the defense looks improved. I expect the Oline to be better and thus the running game. So long as coach sticks with his word and remains committed to pounding the rock. I also see signs of an offense and coaching staff trying to find the best ways to get the ball into the hands of the playmaking pass catchers through personnel and formation groupings, but I cannot stress this enough, do not expect the offense to hum with ANY of our QB's unless we find a running game that's like 2011 Niners dominant.
You see pieces, you see improvement. But you still have another draft and development of young players to go. Of course this includes adding the most important piece on the board - your QB. I'm still convinced a top flight receiver is in order. However QB and secondary really need to addressed in the 2018 offseason unless Kizer progresses that much. There are flashes with him like any sought after rookie, and it was very nice to see him stay behind in practice to throw extra passes making that motion second nature. It doesn't make up for game speed reads, anticipation and timing. He still has a long way to go. If you want to start him week 1, be my guest. I can all but promise you though he won't be leaps and bounds better than Oz or Kess at this time.
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Still wasting too much time having 22 WR's in camp. Our O is going to suffer due to carrying all the extra baggage.
From what I saw we suffer from a dearth of WR's. Louis might be our best asside from Britt.
And in case you wondered, Erving was straight bullied all day long.
Tour - Shon held his own quite well. Still needs to polish his kick step but RT appears to be solidified.
Outstanding note taking...
Tour - Shon held his own quite well. Still needs to polish his kick step but RT appears to be solidified.
Good to read... Joe will work on the kick with him.
- Garrett OWNED Rod Johnson. Like, it was bad. What I saw was illegal in at least 6 different states.- His throwing motion might look better but his ball action fake is still shit. Kizer HAS to sell that stretch better otherwise he's going to get splattered by backside pursuit after the fake.
- I was surprised how effective Fabiano was at combo blocking. As a center, that's kind of his bread and butter... but he worked off initial contact and got the second level a couple times and did it in a hurry.
Rod is raw with a little "Cam" in him, but not so much that he cannot overcome it.
Only Kess has shown much PAP proficiency... and he had it last year.
Fabs does have some game...
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Thanks man, appreciate the work you put in for the benefit of people who can't make it.
Just wondering, do you have any more information on Larry Ogunjobi that you saw? I'm a proud UNC-Charlotte alumni and I'm hoping he excels in Cleveland. It seems like Coley and Brantley might be getting more initial looks though.
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