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I Trust In Kizer

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  • ^ Man he's scary! 

    👍 ❤
  • H Hempman

    Wentz nickle and dimed down the field. He can't do it any other way. Panning out my ass. That post was awful.

    @hempman said:

    Wentz nickle and dimed down the field. He can't do it any other way. Panning out my ass. That post was awful.

    I guess that 60 yard throw to Nelson didn't exist?          Philly's receivers are trash so his ability to buy time and extend the play was pretty great.  Only late game did the Eagles finally start some boot action and move the pocket.     Point is, aside from a tipped pass on what would likely have been a compeltion,  Carson moved his offense at times.    

    The midwest Birds, like the Browns, have a solid Oline and a dearth of refined talent catching passes.   

    Your rebuttal?

    edit:  Nevermind,  you're the guy that said Brock was in full command of the Browns offense and that they were scared of winning 7 games with him.   I don't fucking bother with trolls.  

  • While I respect your opinion about Hogan, I am going to have to respectfully disagree.  From what I've seen, Hogan doesn't have nearly the arm that Kizer does, and I don't have the examples of him "throwing open the receivers", so maybe you're right, but I haven't seen it.  I will say that I was pleasantly surprised by Hogan's play, and I do like the mobility aspect he provides.  I thought he showed some real moxie in that comeback win during preseason, and I no longer feel "terrified" if he should have to play.  

    Kizer has what I've heard as "a plus arm", and I saw several throws on Sunday which reflected that term.  I've already pointed out that he missed several deep throws in other posts, but on his completions I believe it's evident the ball simply "gets there quicker".  That fraction of a second can mean the world when you consider an NFL receiver is "open" by such a small margin.  Something else to consider is the "ceiling effect", or how good a player can potentially be in their career.  Now there's obviously no real way to measure this, but in my mind, Kizer's ceiling is nearly limitless.  There's nothing he can't do, or learn to do.  He's got the big arm, the mobility, the work ethic, and if he had a true #1 receiver (or god forbid a RUNNING GAME), there's no telling how good he can be.  Hogan on the other hand, doesn't appear to have that same ceiling height, but again, that's just what I think.  

    I desperately want to see Kizer play a full game with a working running game.  I think it'd open up the play action a bit more, and I think it'd put us in way more favorable down and distance.  I'm NOT calling a Njoku a bust, so don't take this the wrong way, but there was a large part of me that really wanted Dalvin Cook at the end of the first round.  While I do believe Njoku WILL be a fine player, the odds of him producing jack squat this year are very slim.  As I've said a billion times, rookie TE's simply don't produce right away...hardly ever.  Rookie RB's on the other hand...well...that's a different story.  

  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    @tour2ma said:

    How 'bout my guy? Just may have a chance...

    That boy good.      In all seriousness, a much better command of the offense and understanding his progression level.   Timing and accuracy as expected came with another year in said offense.       Both he and Wentz are looking like they're panning out.     Of course I related Goff more to Rodgers and Wentz more to Farve.   

    @tiamat63 said:

    That boy good.      In all seriousness, a much better command of the offense and understanding his progression level.   Timing and accuracy as expected came with another year in said offense.       Both he and Wentz are looking like they're panning out.     Of course I related Goff more to Rodgers and Wentz more to Farve.   

    In that case it's obvious why I was not a Wentz fan...

    About Goff... I should have said "our boy".  I should be able to remember who was with me... there weren't that many. Just might be clicking for him in year 2... then again it was the Colts.

    @jiggins7919 said:

    1. I don't agree that a QB can't learn to get rid of the ball quicker.  
    2. His intelligence and work ethic were obvious to anyone when he was the ONLY rookie QB to start the season.
    3. There's no denying Kizer's arm, and the ball "gets there" quickly.  It might not always get there ACCURATELY, but when he has a clean pocket and steps into the toss, he typically does well.  How about that 1st first down we got when he drilled the ball to Njoku?  THAT was accuracy and power.  You think Kessler made that pass last year?  That 4th quarter laser to Ricardo Louis? 
    4. This isn't to say Kizer can't learn from his mistakes and play better, hell, I WANT to be wrong.
    5. I believe so much in Kizer that I think the biggest hurdle to his success is his physical health.  He can't learn and get better if he's injured, and THAT'S what worries me the most.  He didn't take too many bad hits...
    6. Like I've said before, and several of you guys didn't like it, we win this game if we have Myles Garrett, Crow finds just 3-4 holes, and our special teams doesn't shit that golden brick.
    7. ... I still think we're going to say at the end of the year, "Wow, we actually did it.  We actually have our QB."  
    1. Can? Yes... QBs learn and increase the rate at which they process info. But we have to see that Kizer has a way to go on that count. Same applies to throwaways. It's not like it's a separate skill. If you are in the pocket and have to find a safe, sellable throwaway, you have to find it the same way you have to find a 2nd (or 3rd) option to throw to. Hue needs to do the kid a favor.
    2. Sure, but Mahomes never had a shot at displacing Smith and Trub's chances were slim. Watson? He had a shot, but, you know, he's getting O'brianed.
    3. I urge you... Go back thru your notes and/or tape and check his accuracy on primary targets that he has stared down vs. 2ndarily acquired targets. I believe your Njoku example is one of the former.
    4. You're not wrong. We are not talking about overnite improvement here.
    5. I'm less worried. I think he took his test shot in that sandwich job on  the run vs NYG in Week 3 of the preseason. He said he wanted to get a taste of NFL power. He did. Pretty sure it was not to his liking.
    6. Don't mind your argument... just don't buy it. Remember... PTG killed the last 2 minutes of the game on our side of the 50.
    7. There's a chance... hope you are correct. We'll know a lot more by the time I'm pubcrawlin' with LondonBrown...

    Good write up... you're on a roll.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • Hogan stepped up and took over when Andrew Luck went to the NFL and they didn't miss a beat. I'd say that maybe Kizer has a stronger arm but Hogan is more accurate and more importantly- when he throws deep the ball is ON TIME. The ball arriving on time and catchable is the mark of a great deep ball. Hell if it was all about arm strength Jamarcus Russel would still have a job. But no, Kevin Hogan has a Sweet deep ball because he times it perfectly and makes it catchable for the receiver to make a play on it. 

    The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain-
  • PoeticGP PoeticG

    Hogan stepped up and took over when Andrew Luck went to the NFL and they didn't miss a beat. I'd say that maybe Kizer has a stronger arm but Hogan is more accurate and more importantly- when he throws deep the ball is ON TIME. The ball arriving on time and catchable is the mark of a great deep ball. Hell if it was all about arm strength Jamarcus Russel would still have a job. But no, Kevin Hogan has a Sweet deep ball because he times it perfectly and makes it catchable for the receiver to make a play on it. 

    @poeticg said:

    Hogan stepped up and took over when Andrew Luck went to the NFL and they didn't miss a beat. I'd say that maybe Kizer has a stronger arm but Hogan is more accurate and more importantly- when he throws deep the ball is ON TIME. The ball arriving on time and catchable is the mark of a great deep ball. Hell if it was all about arm strength Jamarcus Russel would still have a job. But no, Kevin Hogan has a Sweet deep ball because he times it perfectly and makes it catchable for the receiver to make a play on it. 

    As someone else said- Kizer has a higher ceiling than Hogan. If Hue thought he'd win more games, Hogan would be starting, and Kizer sitting and learning. There's also this little factoid- we HAVE to see if Kizer shows enough to be the long term answer at QB, with the boatload of picks we have in 2018 in what looks to be a loaded QB class. We didn't invest that second round pick on him for nothing. Hogan was picked up off the waiver scrap heap. You may think so- but the Browns don't see Hogan as worth wasting a bunch of starts on, we don't have the luxury of developing two QBs simultaneously. Hogan is as much of a project as Kizer- fact, PG.  May view him as the long term answer as a quality backup should Deshone get hurt. And if Kizer does get dinged this year- you're going to get your wish to see Hogan's Heroes in action. 

    👍
  • hoortaH hoorta

    @poeticg said:

    Hogan stepped up and took over when Andrew Luck went to the NFL and they didn't miss a beat. I'd say that maybe Kizer has a stronger arm but Hogan is more accurate and more importantly- when he throws deep the ball is ON TIME. The ball arriving on time and catchable is the mark of a great deep ball. Hell if it was all about arm strength Jamarcus Russel would still have a job. But no, Kevin Hogan has a Sweet deep ball because he times it perfectly and makes it catchable for the receiver to make a play on it. 

    As someone else said- Kizer has a higher ceiling than Hogan. If Hue thought he'd win more games, Hogan would be starting, and Kizer sitting and learning. There's also this little factoid- we HAVE to see if Kizer shows enough to be the long term answer at QB, with the boatload of picks we have in 2018 in what looks to be a loaded QB class. We didn't invest that second round pick on him for nothing. Hogan was picked up off the waiver scrap heap. You may think so- but the Browns don't see Hogan as worth wasting a bunch of starts on, we don't have the luxury of developing two QBs simultaneously. Hogan is as much of a project as Kizer- fact, PG.  May view him as the long term answer as a quality backup should Deshone get hurt. And if Kizer does get dinged this year- you're going to get your wish to see Hogan's Heroes in action. 

    @hoorta said:

    If Hue thought he'd win more games, Hogan would be starting, and Kizer sitting and learning. There's also this little factoid- we HAVE to see if Kizer shows enough to be the long term answer at QB, with the boatload of picks we have in 2018 in what looks to be a loaded QB class.

    Your "factoid" trumps any reasonable number of "more wins"... which I personally think is zero, but PoG probably thinks is 15. Truth is likely between our estimates (but much closer to mine).

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @ghoolie said:

    Kizer holds the ball too long. This is not something that can be improved upon. His synapses are what they are. His habits, his internal timer to get rid of the bal has long ago been emblazoned in his brain. 7 sacks is not just a rookie issue. It is the issue of a dimwit.

    Well then, lets just cut him now and put in Hogan or Kessler or go get some scrub off the street.. 

    Of course, if you were right....then probably John Elway, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Ben R.  Eli Manning, Drew Brees....all these guys should have been cut since they all each held the ball too long in their rookie seasons.

    @the-gipper said:

    Well then, lets just cut him now and put in Hogan or Kessler or go get some scrub off the street.. 

    Of course, if you were right....then probably John Elway, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Ben R.  Eli Manning, Drew Brees....all these guys should have been cut since they all each held the ball too long in their rookie seasons.

    Of course that's one of the go-to arguments. How many other quarterbacks have a shity few games and are dumped immediately?

    How much time would anybody think he should have, an entire season with the full backing of the coaching staff?

    2 seasons? Less?

    WSS

    www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons

  • Does anybody else wish we played the Colts, and THEN the Ravens in Baltimore?  LOL.  Obviously our division is where we need to win, but damn...cmon NFL schedule makers.  You REALLY did the worst team in the league a huge favor by starting with the Steelers and then traveling to Baltimore, didn't ya?  🙂

    You guys remember that Cincy game last year when Hogan started and we actually fought tooth and nail?  It was one of the best coaching feats of the year, and Hue implemented a game plan of Hogan run plays and really trying to keep 3rd down manageable.  I'm not saying Hue will have a similar game plan this week, but for us to win, I think Hue will have to come up with something special that finds SOME weakness in the Ravens' defense and somehow makes the game a bit easier for Kizer.  Maybe it's a "WildDawg" type formation for Peppers, or more I-Formation running attacks (we mainly ran out of the shotgun last week), or a bevy of screen passes we haven't seen...or whatever.  Hue will REALLY have to coach the guys up this week because I'm telling ya, that Ravens' defense seemed to be EVERYWHERE.  It was a pretty awesome spectacle.  If you didn't see the game, go back and watch it if able.  I know many on this board aren't fond of Andy Dalton, but the bottom line on him is he has a crap-ton of wins in this league, and you don't get those by accident.  

    God would I love to beat those a-holes in front of their obnoxious fans...

  • So....

    Now what???

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