Garrett Hurt Already
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@boo-fagley said:
If Ghoolie is correct about Kizer you wont have to worry about Hue.
I believed all along ( I think if I say believed instead of predicted, less people will get pissed off) that taking Kizer would be the straw that broke Hue Jackson's back.
From the standpoint of being a CEO, how the hell could you pass on Trubisky....a GUARANTEED PICK, and take splinter legs and Black Tarkenton? Is Trubisky a guaranteed star? Who knows? However, drafting him would have indicated to Haslam that QB is job #1. SO whatever happened, Hue would be safe because he went for the gusto. HOWEVER.....................what Hue did was put himself in a position where if Kizer fails, it will illuminate that Hue left the Browns horribly inadequate at QB.
Hue needs to go, and he WILL be fired this season.
Can you imagine being 0 - 4 with the remaining 12 being pretty much non winnable games? Idiot franchise.
I believed all along ( I think if I say believed instead of predicted, less people will get pissed off) that taking Kizer would be the straw that broke Hue Jackson's back.
From the standpoint of being a CEO, how the hell could you pass on Trubisky....a GUARANTEED PICK, and take splinter legs and Black Tarkenton? Is Trubisky a guaranteed star? Who knows? However, drafting him would have indicated to Haslam that QB is job #1. SO whatever happened, Hue would be safe because he went for the gusto. HOWEVER.....................what Hue did was put himself in a position where if Kizer fails, it will illuminate that Hue left the Browns horribly inadequate at QB.
Hue needs to go, and he WILL be fired this season.
Can you imagine being 0 - 4 with the remaining 12 being pretty much non winnable games? Idiot franchise.
Yup, I do agree that Kizer should he flop, will be the end of Hue in Cleveland. Please- there are winnable games after the Bengals. Get back to me after the Stripers get killed this Sunday up in Green Bay. Eifert probably won't play, and the Bengals offense will consist of Dalton chucking the ball up to Green who will be triple covered. That's what you get when you let your #2 & #3 Wrs walk out in free agency, and make no effort to replace them. (just like letting your two best OL leave this year) The Jets are "Sucking for Sam" (Darnold). Bears? Don't get an orgasm ove the possibility of Trubisky starting for them Christmas Eve.
BTW, I don't see the Browns being 0-4 this year.
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@boo-fagley said:
Like Brady?
We can send your mailman out there and Brady can make a WR out of him.
Really? NE has zero receivers? Really? I'd trade all of ours for their top 2.
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I'm sure gronk would just be a turnip truck driver, amandola would be a pecan salesman and edelman's hands would be perfect for a sushi chef. Brandon Cooks with a name like that should have stayed in NO as a cajun sauce man.
EDIT: the Browns have ghost Gordon, clutch Coates, Britany Britt and rummy Ricardo the new QB/WR.
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Only and idiot would believe that Hue "took" Kizer...
@boo-fagley said:
I believe that Sashi saw Mahomes, Kizer, Tribisky and Watson all pretty equal. Spending another 1st round pick on a QB in a weak QB draft is a mistake that Sashi wasnt going to make. Plus, he sees the same thing that we all see for the 2018 draft. If there is a time make moves to get the guy you want this is the draft class.
Hue is not pulling the strings on roster moves. Sashi is. Hue likely has input, but the final decision probably comes from Sashi. Thats what NFL GMs do. Manage the salary cap and evaluate talent to build winning rosters. If this 2017 draft class turns out to be a dud ( I dont believe it is), whats Sashi going to say? Hue told me to draft those guys? No, not the way it works.
I know that's the way I ended up seeing the top four... well, three plus Mahommes, for whom I never developed a strong opinion. Each of the other three was my top guy for a time leading up to the draft, but never saw any as worth a top ten pick.
Moves for the consensus top guy in the class of 2018 may be available if SF ends up with the #1 overall, but damn that move will be expensive... even if we're picking in the top five. Best hope is that there's a consensus pair, a 1A and 1B, and we like the 1B.
Better handle on Sashi's role, but still not it. He's the consensus builder/ decider... not the decider.
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@boo-fagley said:
Like Brady? We can send your mailman out there and Brady can make a WR out of him.
My mailman is neither fast nor big.
Tom is great, but last I heard he's not the architect of the NE Offense. You know that all starts with Bill. He's the most adaptive Coach I've ever seen.
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Now, here in New England, the Patriots are the model team and organization. And they have a VERY happy and apparently loyal fan base. Best in the nation right? Nope! Cos when I was in my 20's my friends and I could decide to go see a football game, drive up to Foxborough, buy tickets and sit just about anywhere we wanted. And it'll go BACK that way again if the team goes into a Browns-like funk (Brady retires, etc.).
The Patriots have had a QB. A QB! And a decent OL to give him time. And some receivers that could run routes and catch the ball. The receivers didn't have to be GREAT. They just had to be able to get a LITTLE bit of space and CATCH the damn ball.
It's no coincidence that we've sucked since Bernie Kosar (& Vinny T.). It's because we haven't had a good QB since then.
We LET the Eagles have a QB...so we don't have one...unless Kizer turns out to be the guy. But if he doesn't then we gotta start swinging the QB bat until we hit on one. Or else we're going to continue to see other team's jerseys dominating our stadium.
Your post is very good and I agree with it 100%. A few things. Browns fans love to call Steel fans fair weather, and as you point out, all fans are that way to some extent. Die hard Browns fans have been at the top of the list in loyalty despite losing, but as you said, that group is dwindling. Outside the walls of this board, you know it and I know it, EVERYBODY knows it, the Browns are not viewed favorably by most fans.
Regarding the QB. This has been a problem since 1999. For some reasons fans have been convinced that no QB has been good enough to draft early. SO here we sit,with shit.
Your post is very good and I agree with it 100%. A few things. Browns fans love to call Steel fans fair weather, and as you point out, all fans are that way to some extent. Die hard Browns fans have been at the top of the list in loyalty despite losing, but as you said, that group is dwindling. Outside the walls of this board, you know it and I know it, EVERYBODY knows it, the Browns are not viewed favorably by most fans.
NO team that loses this much is viewed "favorably" by the fans of other teams. I mean, what do Browns fans think of the Bills or the Jets or the Lions etc. etc. The teams that are now the "Darlings" of the league were not always that. The Patriots were the skankiest losingest team in the league for like their first 35 years. Same with the Steelers. The Cowboys couldn't get out of their own way for a decade. What about the Raiders of the 21st century except for the past couple of years...worse than the Browns.
An interesting stat: During the decade of the 1970s neither NYC team, the Jets and the Giants made one single playoff appearance between them that entire decade. Did Browns fans give a shit about those teams? No.
Regarding the QB. This has been a problem since 1999. For some reasons fans have been convinced that no QB has been good enough to draft early. SO here we sit,with shit.
Browns FANS have no say whatsoever in whom the Browns draft...at QB or any other position. Browns front offices have made some poor choices when it comes to that. I mean...you are really starting to talk like a typical stupid Steeler fan....thinking that Browns fans have any more than a cabbage farts say in these matters. They don't. I mean...maybe a Browns fan at the time may have said: why don't we take a flyer on that skinny QB from Michigan in round 6 here in the 2000 draft...what have we got to lose? Oh, they picked up a guy named Spergon Wynn? Well, hopefully he will be better than the skinny Michigan kid. So...OK....lets just stop with the Steeler fan style ignorance in thinking that fans have one goddamn thing to do with anything.
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@boo-fagley said:
<<I believe that Sashi saw Mahomes, Kizer, Tribisky and Watson all pretty equal. Spending another 1st round pick on a QB in a weak QB draft is a mistake that Sashi wasn't going to make. Plus, he sees the same thing that we all see for the 2018 draft. If there is a time make moves to get the guy you want this is the draft class.>>
I agree with you 100% and this is the problem that continues to hurt the Browns. Browns management is like an possessive mother interfering with her son's choice in women. NO GIRL IS GOOD ENOUGH. I have been hearing this bullshit about QBs not being good enough for us for 15 years. It is the same, exact things dickheads were saying about why the Browns passing on Ben was the right move.
"Ben didn't play against tough teams, Ben Played for a small school, Ben is not a guarantee."
Mitch Trubisky was THE pick of the draft. He has the moral fiber, leadership qualities, attitude, smarts AND traditional QB, quick release profile. Sure Thing? There is no sure thing. However, there is also no guarantee of tomorrow. The Browns need a QB, there is no guarantee that the Browns will be able to get a blue chip in 2018. If as you say we will win some games, we won't pick in the primo spots, and we have little to trade. The QB is a low priority in Cleveland, both with ownership, management and the fans. Hence, we are the worst team in the modern era of the NFL.
"We'll get em' next year!
<<Tribisky and Garret are a wash because neither have played this regular season. Tribsky has started 13 college games so I cant see how he is a guarantee in any way.>>
Trubisky is 1000 times the prospect Garrett is. Trubisky's upside if he pans out can transform the Bears into a winner. No matter how Good Garrett is, his impact will be minimal. Next, Trubisky is being schooled, Garrett has now, for the third time not been able to play because of his brittle ankles. His longevity in the NFL is guaranteed to be short lived. rubisky CAN play today.............Garrett cannot.
<<Hue is not pulling the strings on roster moves. Sashi is. Hue likely has input, but the final decision probably comes from Sashi. Thats what NFL GMs do.>>
I don't agree, but for argument's sake, let me demonstrate how you just admitted that the Browns are fucked when it comes to QB. If what you say is true, then it was the GM who chose Johnny Manzeil? Sorry, but the OWNER.........not anyone else decides who gets drafted. None of these cocksuckers does jack shit unless brain dead Ratslam okays it. Sashi is a coffee fetcher. He is Phil Sewage reincarnated.
<<Manage the salary cap and evaluate talent to build winning rosters. If this 2017 draft class turns out to be a dud ( I dont believe it is), whats Sashi going to say? Hue told me to draft those guys? No, not the way it works.>>
BOth the 2016 and 2017 Draft classes are failures. Come one dude, the #1 #1 has now been sidelined by THREE COUN'T EM'...THREE ankle injuries. Non-related? LMAO. A hamstring, and a shoulder injury are unrelated. THREE ankle injuries? Unrelated? Let's not be stupid. Garrett is not long for the NFL. Garrett likewise is a joke.
<<The Browns are going to win some games.>>
Not guaranteed. If the Colts and Bengals make the team 0 - 4, then the downward spiral will be unstoppable.
Brisett and Kizer are basically in the same boat starting NFL games for the first time. Kizer vs Ben and Flacco would be like me vs you in a battle of the accordions.
Oh no. no. no. no. no.....big nig mistake. Brisett has a far better QB management team behind him, and a much more successful and smarter HC. There is no argument here. Brisett was on his way to beating the Cardinals. Kizer has never been in a situation where he could win a game. Brisett will have a better game than Kizer. He will beat the Browns.
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Oh no. no. no. no. no.....big nig mistake. Brisett has a far better QB management team behind him, and a much more successful and smarter HC. There is no argument here. Brisett was on his way to beating the Cardinals. Kizer has never been in a situation where he could win a game. Brisett will have a better game than Kizer. He will beat the Browns.
Short memory....just two weeks ago Kizer very well may have been in a situation to win a game. He led the team to a TD vs. the Steelers, bringing them to within 3 pts. They were in a situation where the COULD win. Had the defense held the Steelers instead of giving up first downs, Kizer may have led them into position to win.
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How is it his fault when an OL stepped on his ankle? I had a 350lb fat fuck step on my foot twice in a row when i played and i coyldnt feel my foot for a week, it felt broke. And these guys are playing at a far higher level putting far more wear and tear on their bodies. It just happens.
The same pansies talking about garretts ankle were here last year chirping bosa and how his pussy hamstrings will never cut it in the nfl. We saw how that panned out so this means nothing.
How is it his fault when an OL stepped on his ankle? I had a 350lb fat fuck step on my foot twice in a row when i played and i coyldnt feel my foot for a week, it felt broke. And these guys are playing at a far higher level putting far more wear and tear on their bodies. It just happens.
The same pansies talking about garretts ankle were here last year chirping bosa and how his pussy hamstrings will never cut it in the nfl. We saw how that panned out so this means nothing.
Nobody is blaming Garrett for why he is brittle. HE just is. Look, sparky; if he had a shoulder injury and a testicle injury.....Those would be unrelated injuries. THREE ankle injuries? THREE? All causing him to miss action? THREE? Unrelated? No shit? Hey, do you want to buy some magic beans?
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Oh no. no. no. no. no.....big nig mistake. Brisett has a far better QB management team behind him, and a much more successful and smarter HC. There is no argument here. Brisett was on his way to beating the Cardinals. Kizer has never been in a situation where he could win a game. Brisett will have a better game than Kizer. He will beat the Browns.
Short memory....just two weeks ago Kizer very well may have been in a situation to win a game. He led the team to a TD vs. the Steelers, bringing them to within 3 pts. They were in a situation where the COULD win. Had the defense held the Steelers instead of giving up first downs, Kizer may have led them into position to win.
Oh no. no. no. no. no.....big nig mistake. Brisett has a far better QB management team behind him, and a much more successful and smarter HC. There is no argument here. Brisett was on his way to beating the Cardinals. Kizer has never been in a situation where he could win a game. Brisett will have a better game than Kizer. He will beat the Browns.
Short memory....just two weeks ago Kizer very well may have been in a situation to win a game. He led the team to a TD vs. the Steelers, bringing them to within 3 pts. They were in a situation where the COULD win. Had the defense held the Steelers instead of giving up first downs, Kizer may have led them into position to win.
Read your own words..............he WASNT in a position..........................any mother fucker COULD have been if other shit happened. Stop with the IF ONLY WE MAKE THAT PLAY bullshit. Kizer has not been in a position where he could have won a game.
The last drive was not impressive. It was mostly enabled by stupid Steeler penalties. Kizer is a blowjob. He will singlehandedly give the game to the Colts.
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Oh no. no. no. no. no.....big nig mistake. Brisett has a far better QB management team behind him, and a much more successful and smarter HC. There is no argument here. Brisett was on his way to beating the Cardinals. Kizer has never been in a situation where he could win a game. Brisett will have a better game than Kizer. He will beat the Browns.
Short memory....just two weeks ago Kizer very well may have been in a situation to win a game. He led the team to a TD vs. the Steelers, bringing them to within 3 pts. They were in a situation where the COULD win. Had the defense held the Steelers instead of giving up first downs, Kizer may have led them into position to win.
Read your own words..............he WASNT in a position..........................any mother fucker COULD have been if other shit happened. Stop with the IF ONLY WE MAKE THAT PLAY bullshit. Kizer has not been in a position where he could have won a game.
The last drive was not impressive. It was mostly enabled by stupid Steeler penalties. Kizer is a blowjob. He will singlehandedly give the game to the Colts.
Read your own words..............he WASNT in a position..........................any mother fucker COULD have been if other shit happened. Stop with the IF ONLY WE MAKE THAT PLAY bullshit. Kizer has not been in a position where he could have won a game.
The last drive was not impressive. It was mostly enabled by stupid Steeler penalties. Kizer is a blowjob. He will singlehandedly give the game to the Colts.
Well....that depends on how you interpret "in position". He put them "in position" by getting them within 3 pts. He COULD have perhaps won the game if the defense had done its job.
And penalties are part of the game....the Steelers TD drives were helped out tremendously by a few penalties on the Browns. Should we not credit them with scoring because they were helped by penalties.? Their entire win was helped by turnovers. Should we say that they would not have won had it not been for the turnovers?
As far as Kizer and blowjobs...I will defer to your expertise on fellatio. I have no expertise there. Mine tends more toware Colonel Angus.
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@boo-fagley said:
Bill isnt the one throwing passes on the field and reading defenses. Just like Tomlin isnt making every decision for Ben.
And nothing I said takes anything away the execution from Tom, whereas you seem determined to minimize Bill... the head of a team that has won more ways than any other I can recall... D and the run game... dinks and dunks... deep vertical. Tom really was key to 2 of those 3. Then there's the year without Tom... suffered all the way to 11-5.
It's a symbiotic relationship to be sure, but it starts somewhere. I don't see how you can make the arguments you've made for Garropolo and believe it starts with Tom.
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@boo-fagley said:
If you believe that you can build a Super Bowl team and plug any jackass in at QB and win it all youre sadly mistaken.
Please show me where I even came close to implying the above let alone state it... as again I have no idea what is prompting your responses... unless it's a determination to not respond to my points.
But at least I learned that Phil Simms was a "stud QB". Which Super Bowl year do you think was his more studly season? '86 when he threw 22 INTs or 1990 when he threw for almost 2300 yd?
Also learned that apparently Cassel was responsible for dialing down the Pats Offense...
I guess Bill just said, "Good idea, Matt. Let's try that."
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@boo-fagley said:
If you believe that you can build a Super Bowl team and plug any jackass in at QB and win it all youre sadly mistaken.
Boo, thats what 99% of the people here believe. Hoorta believes you can have clumsy fatasses block their way to the SB. Flugel is just concerned with saying In (insert asshole) We Trust, and Gipper is suffering with the effects of his mother dropping him on his head.
I have never seen a bigger bunch of fucktards who believe you build a team first and then just plug in a QB. The big thing with fans here is that they create imaginary bullshit.........like this one...................."The Browns snookered the rest of the NFL, we stole Kizer in the second round and now next year we won't have to use a high pick on a QB. THe fucking Browns are amazing............. NO QB is good enough for our precious #1 picks......... so what do we do? We waste them on useless cocksuckers like Joe Thomas, Corey Coleman and Two Tackle Texas, the Cowgirl wannabe with splintered ankles.
Pagano is a good coach. Just watch how much better his QB does than ours. He has Luck to work with, conversely, there is NO AMOUNT of luck that will help this fucking lack-of-talent team.
Beat the Colts? Exactly how the fuck is that going to happen? We have the consummate Black Tarkenton.
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So in 2 years he'll be the next jadaveon Clowney....
While his orig coaching staff and FO will be assistants somewhere else or just outta da biz.
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Boo, thats what 99% of the people here believe. Hoorta believes you can have clumsy fatasses block their way to the SB. Flugel is just concerned with saying In (insert asshole) We Trust, and Gipper is suffering with the effects of his mother dropping him on his head.
I have never seen a bigger bunch of fucktards who believe you build a team first and then just plug in a QB.
Well....guess which team did EXACTLY that: the team known as the fucking Pittsburgh Steelers did exactly that. They built up their entire team, defense, offensive line, run game...then plugged in BR. They went 15-1 his rookie season...then won the Super Bowl the next year.
How can you be so dim on the history of the sport to not know this. Expecially since you have become a Steeler pole smoker.
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Look.....what you get first is kind of a stupid argument......everyone knows you need a qb......BUT, on average, there is only one a year to be had....soooo, you get one when you get one.....thats how it goes....and you constantly try to draft the best players and build the best team possible, whilst looking for that QB....
Sometimes there is a great one and you just happen to be the first pick.....or.....sometimes you get lucky with one who is picked later....
None the less....there are always about 15 "good" ones in the league(at any given time)...and there are 32 teams.....so, at one per year, it will take, in theory, 32 years for each team to get one......and since things dont work out perfectly balanced, some teams will get 2, whist others dont get any.....
Examples....Colts vs Browns....in fact, it has been EXACTLY 32 years since we drafted a franchise type QB(so we are due)......and the Colts get 2 in 15 years.....
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Riddle me this boo-bird... How many great QBs have won a SB without a great HC?
@boo-fagley said:
Build it and they will win super bowls with Joe Blow happens infrequently.
Look at the teams always in the Super Championship conversation? They have real QBs. About 25% of the teams self destruct per shitty QB play - the Tierod Taylors of the NFL. Another 25% are unproven hopefuls like the Bortles and Mariotas. Bridgewater before he got hurt. 25% more are the Super Bowl prick teasers - Amish Luck, Dalton and the Newtons. They will get you in the playoffs and maybe inside a Super Bowl without paying for a ticket, but deep down you know a kick in the nutsack is coming. The final and cream of the crop 25% are your Rodgers, Ben and Bradys. Heading into a draft youre not thinking about the QB position, but how to build a better club around them.
There are currently four, consensus "elite" QBs in the League and three are near the end. Before Peyton hung them up there were five.
Since Tom Terrific won his first in SB 36 (XXXVI) how many of the 16 have the elite won? A: Eleven.
There's no doubt that an elite QB gives a team a serious edge, but if five times in sixteen is "infrequent", then I do not know what the word means.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Riddle me this boo-bird... How many great QBs have won a SB without a great HC?
@boo-fagley said:
Build it and they will win super bowls with Joe Blow happens infrequently.
Look at the teams always in the Super Championship conversation? They have real QBs. About 25% of the teams self destruct per shitty QB play - the Tierod Taylors of the NFL. Another 25% are unproven hopefuls like the Bortles and Mariotas. Bridgewater before he got hurt. 25% more are the Super Bowl prick teasers - Amish Luck, Dalton and the Newtons. They will get you in the playoffs and maybe inside a Super Bowl without paying for a ticket, but deep down you know a kick in the nutsack is coming. The final and cream of the crop 25% are your Rodgers, Ben and Bradys. Heading into a draft youre not thinking about the QB position, but how to build a better club around them.
There are currently four, consensus "elite" QBs in the League and three are near the end. Before Peyton hung them up there were five.
Since Tom Terrific won his first in SB 36 (XXXVI) how many of the 16 have the elite won? A: Eleven.
There's no doubt that an elite QB gives a team a serious edge, but if five times in sixteen is "infrequent", then I do not know what the word means.
Riddle me this boo-bird... How many great QBs have won a SB without a great HC?
There are currently four, consensus "elite" QBs in the League and three are near the end. Before Peyton hung them up there were five.
Since Tom Terrific won his first in SB 36 (XXXVI) how many of the 16 have the elite won? A: Eleven.
There's no doubt that an elite QB gives a team a serious edge, but if five times in sixteen is "infrequent", then I do not know what the word means.
Four? Let em guess who those are supposed to be: Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Ben R? (Where do Rivers and Eli rate? What about Ryan and Newton...two SB losers? And Flacco...an SB winner?
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Oh no. no. no. no. no.....big nig mistake. Brisett has a far better QB management team behind him, and a much more successful and smarter HC. There is no argument here. Brisett was on his way to beating the Cardinals. Kizer has never been in a situation where he could win a game. Brisett will have a better game than Kizer. He will beat the Browns.
Short memory....just two weeks ago Kizer very well may have been in a situation to win a game. He led the team to a TD vs. the Steelers, bringing them to within 3 pts. They were in a situation where the COULD win. Had the defense held the Steelers instead of giving up first downs, Kizer may have led them into position to win.
Oh no. no. no. no. no.....big nig mistake. Brisett has a far better QB management team behind him, and a much more successful and smarter HC. There is no argument here. Brisett was on his way to beating the Cardinals. Kizer has never been in a situation where he could win a game. Brisett will have a better game than Kizer. He will beat the Browns.
Short memory....just two weeks ago Kizer very well may have been in a situation to win a game. He led the team to a TD vs. the Steelers, bringing them to within 3 pts. They were in a situation where the COULD win. Had the defense held the Steelers instead of giving up first downs, Kizer may have led them into position to win.
Gip, you nailed it on this one. This is exactly what i came away with on the game. And our receivers didn't help us either. I choose to believe if we draft one or two stud WRs next year and a good CB, we will be in the running for division champs. But I have my doubts based on history,.
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