Kizer
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Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
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Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Hogan. Flugels is talking about HOGAN coming from a pro-style offense.
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Kevin Hogan's former Pac 12 rival (Jared Goff) reminds us it takes longer than 2 games for a young QB to emerge on a rebuilding team. The Rams prolly used Case Keenum more to prevent the ruin of Goff than any intended long term plan for Keenum. Last week, Kevin Hogan looked like he could be up to the task of giving us something far better than Case Keenum offers anyone. Hogan might have had the best training camp and preseason of any of our QBs while the deep ball accuracy of Kizer diverted attention away from it.
He is 6'3" and came out of pro style offense in comparison to a soph QB deciding to depart from Notre Dame's Chaotic sandlot spread. It's not that I don't want to give Kizer a chance; but some of these sacks he's taking in the pocket holding on to the ball forever has me feeling like he's not ready yet. About half of our 7 sacks vrs Pitt were from holding onto the ball way too long.
Is it possible Kizer just had a bad game? Absolutely! That said, I'd like to think if Kevin Hogan offered us something better than body by Migraine headache - we keep him in on a day Kizer was producing more turnovers than the local bakery. I'm not a hater - I'm just seeing why Kizer's college coach said "he's not ready" more than I was willing to during the preseason. I don't see what the hurry to ruin this kid is while we are sentenced to an Arena Football caliber WR Corps. If Kosar wasn't ready to start until somewhere between week 5 and 7 as a rookie - what makes Kizer ready? The timing patterned deep ball to an area instead of reading progressions against preseason opponents that didn't game plan or film study him? I don't think it would be a bad move to sit the would be college junior for a guy who looks more ready to succeed at a pro style offense at this time. I've been wrong before though.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal!
Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford. David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience.
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game. If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day. IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21. And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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Gotcha
No worries War. Hopefully the post will make more sense to you now.
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Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal!
Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford. David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience.
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game. If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day. IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21. And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today?
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan.
I'd say "teach the pro-style basics"... But in any case I do not think that explains the apparent edge Hogan has in reading a D. I continue to believe that's a case of "have to" for less physically gifted QBs, which Hogan clearly is compared to Kizer.
Always seems like most of the gifted QBs I can name who also understand the position are sons of either Coaches or QBs... Elway and Luck are examples.
Many of the nearly gifted had Dads in the game as well... Rivers, the Mannings, Brees had an uncle who started for the Longhorns... so not much help there...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan.
I'd say "teach the pro-style basics"... But in any case I do not think that explains the apparent edge Hogan has in reading a D. I continue to believe that's a case of "have to" for less physically gifted QBs, which Hogan clearly is compared to Kizer.
Always seems like most of the gifted QBs I can name who also understand the position are sons of either Coaches or QBs... Elway and Luck are examples.
Many of the nearly gifted had Dads in the game as well... Rivers, the Mannings, Brees had an uncle who started for the Longhorns... so not much help there...
I'd say "teach the pro-style basics"... But in any case I do not think that explains the apparent edge Hogan has in reading a D. I continue to believe that's a case of "have to" for less physically gifted QBs, which Hogan clearly is compared to Kizer.
Always seems like most of the gifted QBs I can name who also understand the position are sons of either Coaches or QBs... Elway and Luck are examples.
Many of the nearly gifted had Dads in the game as well... Rivers, the Mannings, Brees had an uncle who started for the Longhorns... so not much help there...
How dare you imply that Hogan is anything but a physical specimen.
PoG saw Hogan throw that football over that mountain.
The Browns would've definitely won state if Hue had put Hogan in. Hogan might have found his soul mate as a result.
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It's official, he stinks
It's official, he stinks
Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.
Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".
gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."
Could be one or both....
On a positive note... the kid did survey the field better. Still too slow and still are issues picking up the location of a throw to a non primary, but he looked.
#BabySteps...
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It's official, he stinks
Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.
Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".
gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."
Could be one or both....
On a positive note... the kid did survey the field better. Still too slow and still are issues picking up the location of a throw to a non primary, but he looked.
#BabySteps...
Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.
Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".
gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."
Could be one or both....
In college he was inaccurate and had trouble making the proper read, typically these things don’t improve in the NFL but QB gurus think they can mold players.
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I couldn't imagine what it would be like playing the position when your guys drop 8 footballs. To put the ball in the bread basket just to have the ball dropped is a joke. On top of that, 4 offensive PI calls (two of which would have resulted in 1st downs) and what the fuck do you expect.
Kizer made some bad throws, I'm not gonna defend those. But 8 drops? who the fuck is supposed to excel with EIGHT drops?
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At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
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At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
It's clear where I'm going with this, but imagine this stat line
QB- 30 of 47, 2 TDS/3 ints (one being on a hail mary)
If that was the stat line of Aaron Rodgers, would you think wow, that dude lost us the game?
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At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
It's clear where I'm going with this, but imagine this stat line
QB- 30 of 47, 2 TDS/3 ints (one being on a hail mary)
If that was the stat line of Aaron Rodgers, would you think wow, that dude lost us the game?
It's clear where I'm going with this, but imagine this stat line
QB- 30 of 47, 2 TDS/3 ints (one being on a hail mary)
If that was the stat line of Aaron Rodgers, would you think wow, that dude lost us the game?
Stats are meaningless in these games. Remember the Jordan Cameron Gary Barnidge days. The question that I ask is watching Kizer in the first half, when the game is being formed, did he look like an NFL QB? I don’t think so. Racking up stats when the defense is running out the clock doesn’t do much for me.
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It's clear where I'm going with this, but imagine this stat line
QB- 30 of 47, 2 TDS/3 ints (one being on a hail mary)
If that was the stat line of Aaron Rodgers, would you think wow, that dude lost us the game?
Stats are meaningless in these games. Remember the Jordan Cameron Gary Barnidge days. The question that I ask is watching Kizer in the first half, when the game is being formed, did he look like an NFL QB? I don’t think so. Racking up stats when the defense is running out the clock doesn’t do much for me.
Stats are meaningless in these games. Remember the Jordan Cameron Gary Barnidge days. The question that I ask is watching Kizer in the first half, when the game is being formed, did he look like an NFL QB? I don’t think so. Racking up stats when the defense is running out the clock doesn’t do much for me.
You know what Aaron Rodgers was doing in his 3rd NFL game? Picking splinters out of his backside. It's something to consider.
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I couldn't imagine what it would be like playing the position when your guys drop 8 footballs. To put the ball in the bread basket just to have the ball dropped is a joke. On top of that, 4 offensive PI calls (two of which would have resulted in 1st downs) and what the fuck do you expect.
Kizer made some bad throws, I'm not gonna defend those. But 8 drops? who the fuck is supposed to excel with EIGHT drops?
I couldn't imagine what it would be like playing the position when your guys drop 8 footballs. To put the ball in the bread basket just to have the ball dropped is a joke. On top of that, 4 offensive PI calls (two of which would have resulted in 1st downs) and what the fuck do you expect.
Kizer made some bad throws, I'm not gonna defend those. But 8 drops? who the fuck is supposed to excel with EIGHT drops?
Agreed
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Stats are meaningless in these games. Remember the Jordan Cameron Gary Barnidge days. The question that I ask is watching Kizer in the first half, when the game is being formed, did he look like an NFL QB? I don’t think so. Racking up stats when the defense is running out the clock doesn’t do much for me.
You know what Aaron Rodgers was doing in his 3rd NFL game? Picking splinters out of his backside. It's something to consider.
You know what Aaron Rodgers was doing in his 3rd NFL game? Picking splinters out of his backside. It's something to consider.
Can we agree that the 2017-18 Browns are not the 2007 Packers
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At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
Are you evaluating his performance in half the game to suit your narrative or are you doing it because you are stupid?
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You know what Aaron Rodgers was doing in his 3rd NFL game? Picking splinters out of his backside. It's something to consider.
Can we agree that the 2017-18 Browns are not the 2007 Packers
Can we agree that the 2017-18 Browns are not the 2007 Packers
Without a doubt.
A very young, raw QB in my humble opinion was rushed into the starting job before he should have on a team with questionable talent surrounding him, especially at WR. I'm not going to write the kid off already, considering all the circumstances. (I also have been on record before the season that I don't think Kizer being on the roster will stop the Browns from strongly considering taking a QB with their first pick next draft)
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Can we agree that the 2017-18 Browns are not the 2007 Packers
Without a doubt.
A very young, raw QB in my humble opinion was rushed into the starting job before he should have on a team with questionable talent surrounding him, especially at WR. I'm not going to write the kid off already, considering all the circumstances. (I also have been on record before the season that I don't think Kizer being on the roster will stop the Browns from strongly considering taking a QB with their first pick next draft)
Without a doubt.
A very young, raw QB in my humble opinion was rushed into the starting job before he should have on a team with questionable talent surrounding him, especially at WR. I'm not going to write the kid off already, considering all the circumstances. (I also have been on record before the season that I don't think Kizer being on the roster will stop the Browns from strongly considering taking a QB with their first pick next draft)
Absolutely rushed in and as a positive strong arm and good mobility. The O Line has been pretty solid this year and defenses have been loading up against the run. The defense and O Line are setting Kizer up to be successful. I will say our defense shitting the bed and horrible penalties have put him in some bad spots this year
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