Kizer
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Hey! at this pace it should only take 4 more games to match our interception total from last year!!
I really cant help but think using cody and really focusing on the short passing game and not asking him to throw the ball deep 15+ times a game is the way to go....
If we actually wanted to win games that is... -
Goff definitely did not come out of a pro style offense.
Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal!
Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford. David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience.
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game. If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day. IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21. And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today?
@boo-fagley said:
Thanks Mr Obvious letting us know that Ben will be in the NFL HOF and that the Steelers have been a model NFL franchise going back to dumb as a bag of rocks Terry Bradshaw.
Yeah, sore rectal cavity, I meant 1 Super Bowl under clueless Tomlin. Brady owns that blowhard franchise. So, quit bragging about Pittsburgh being so great and stick to eating chicken wings and guzzling beer.
Didn't those mighty Squealers lose to the lowly Bears?
Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal!
Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford. David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience.
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game. If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day. IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21. And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today?
He is what I thought he was....
Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.
Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".
gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."
Could be one or both....
On a positive note... the kid did survey the field better. Still too slow and still are issues picking up the location of a throw to a non primary, but he looked.
#BabySteps...
Sorry Tour- he pretty much sucked....
In college he was inaccurate and had trouble making the proper read, typically these things don’t improve in the NFL but QB gurus think they can mold players.
^^^^ Preaching to the Choir here BH.
One comment on the drops... of the 8 mentioned some were pure, 100% on the receivers... Devalve late and Britt early spring to mind. But some throws asked a lot of even very good receivers. Yes, they got their hands on a couple that were behind them, but that phrase includes the phrase "they were behind them." A QB needs to make throws that give his guys the best chance. Kizer's not there yet and that's what prompted the speculation as to the cause(s) of his inaccuracy.
On the other hand what was the count on catches made on bad balls. One springs to mind... Williams' ridiculous one-hander deep in Colt territory. You'll be seeing that one tonite on SC.
I guess that might have been two comments...
One circus catch does not equal 10 errant ducks Tour. That one wasn't particularly a good pass. Like a bunch not remotely catchable. He had several guys open on patterns that he missed badly on. Right now, Kizer has a slight edge on the Infamous Akilli "Worm Burner" Smith of Bungle disrepute.
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Of starting qbs Kiser leads the league in the following
Passes intercepted 7
Lowest qb rating 53
Lowest completion percentage 53
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Of starting qbs Kiser leads the league in the following
Passes intercepted 7
Lowest qb rating 53
Lowest completion percentage 53
Of starting qbs Kiser leads the league in the following
Passes intercepted 7
Lowest qb rating 53
Lowest completion percentage 53
But he's a rookie, he can improve.. I hope so- or this is going to be another lost season, real quick.
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@boo-fagley said:
Thanks Mr Obvious letting us know that Ben will be in the NFL HOF and that the Steelers have been a model NFL franchise going back to dumb as a bag of rocks Terry Bradshaw.
Yeah, sore rectal cavity, I meant 1 Super Bowl under clueless Tomlin. Brady owns that blowhard franchise. So, quit bragging about Pittsburgh being so great and stick to eating chicken wings and guzzling beer.
Didn't those mighty Squealers lose to the lowly Bears?
Looks like Cal and I posted at the same time. Thanks Cal!
Yeah, Hogan is the one who came out of a pro style offense at Stanford especially when we understand his Head Coach there was previously an NFL assistant on the Philadelphia Eagles, QB Coach for the Oakland Raiders and QB Coach and later WR Coach with the Baltimore Ravens staff before joining Jim Harbaugh (who said he used much of Lindy Infante's QB friendly read system) at Stanford. David Shaw likes a 3 TE wrinkle that he has effectively implemented there in addition to other stuff he uses from his pro experience.
In essence, there's way less to de-program with Hogan. Since we know Kizer is starting, let's hope he has a good game. If not, I don't want our entire team feeling like they're sentenced to a pitcher that can't find the strike zone all day. IMO, that will ruin the kid who just turned 21. And why do that if Hogan can give us more or at least the spark that jumper cables the rest of the team today?
He is what I thought he was....
Still early BH, but no... today he was not good.
Posted in chat that he might be "overthrowing the ball"... not in the usual QB sense,, but in the MLB pitcher sense. Too hard yielding "wild".
gumby answered "over gripping"... could be an issue as well. Squeeze a golf club to death and forearm muscles tighten that you do not want tight. PLus as the immortal "Crash" Davis told Nuke, "Don't grip it so tight... it's an egg."
Could be one or both....
On a positive note... the kid did survey the field better. Still too slow and still are issues picking up the location of a throw to a non primary, but he looked.
#BabySteps...
Sorry Tour- he pretty much sucked....
In college he was inaccurate and had trouble making the proper read, typically these things don’t improve in the NFL but QB gurus think they can mold players.
^^^^ Preaching to the Choir here BH.
One comment on the drops... of the 8 mentioned some were pure, 100% on the receivers... Devalve late and Britt early spring to mind. But some throws asked a lot of even very good receivers. Yes, they got their hands on a couple that were behind them, but that phrase includes the phrase "they were behind them." A QB needs to make throws that give his guys the best chance. Kizer's not there yet and that's what prompted the speculation as to the cause(s) of his inaccuracy.
On the other hand what was the count on catches made on bad balls. One springs to mind... Williams' ridiculous one-hander deep in Colt territory. You'll be seeing that one tonite on SC.
I guess that might have been two comments...
One circus catch does not equal 10 errant ducks Tour. That one wasn't particularly a good pass. Like a bunch not remotely catchable. He had several guys open on patterns that he missed badly on. Right now, Kizer has a slight edge on the Infamous Akilli "Worm Burner" Smith of Bungle disrepute.
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At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws. The defense let the touchdown less Colts throw it all over them.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
Duke Johnson has been balling his ass-off all 3 games with limited looks.. even with off the mark 7 yard. passes..
That was Leslie.....the guy we just reactivated and, apparently, can catch against 1st stringers too....(wink wink)
Tagged Tavern name *Jordan Tyree*
..A hell of a catch in traffic..Leslie has been doing this since BYU..imo, it's time for old Al Saunders to take a seat in the hot seat..Any QB will need WR's to grow with...a whole camp & 3 games later were screwed (Leslie & Kasen Williams need more game-time Reps)
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At this point I’m not evaluating any player on stats. I watch the first two quarters to see how they play when the game is still undecided. Kizer was miserable when the game started, looked lost and bad throws.
There isn’t a player on this team, minus the O Line and Collins that have consistently played at a NFL level
Duke Johnson has been balling his ass-off all 3 games with limited looks.. even with off the mark 7 yard. passes..
That was Leslie.....the guy we just reactivated and, apparently, can catch against 1st stringers too....(wink wink)
Tagged Tavern name *Jordan Tyree*
..A hell of a catch in traffic..Leslie has been doing this since BYU..imo, it's time for old Al Saunders to take a seat in the hot seat..Any QB will need WR's to grow with...a whole camp & 3 games later were screwed (Leslie & Kasen Williams need more game-time Reps)
Duke Johnson has been balling his ass-off all 3 games with limited looks.. even with off the mark 7 yard. passes..
Tagged Tavern name *Jordan Tyree*
..A hell of a catch in traffic..Leslie has been doing this since BYU..imo, it's time for old Al Saunders to take a seat in the hot seat..Any QB will need WR's to grow with...a whole camp & 3 games later were screwed (Leslie & Kasen Williams need more game-time Reps)
They certainly will. And young talent with a good work ethic is good and to grow with a Young quarterback. He gets to familiar with his guys and they start to get better together. Not short-term overpaid bums tossed on the scrap heap by their old team.
I will probably keep making excuses for him, (eight dropped passes Etc) for five more games.
WSS
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Eight game limit seems reasonable.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Eight game limit seems reasonable.
Coming off 1-15, after a 3-18 finish from the previous regime, 8 consecutive forfeits is asking a lot of this fan base. It's not like Kizer is the 1st or 2nd pick overall. He's a 2nd round QB that threw 2 nice deep balls in the preseason. I'd rather have the 21 year old watch Hogan from the sidelines real soon.
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Eight game limit seems reasonable.
Coming off 1-15, after a 3-18 finish from the previous regime, 8 consecutive forfeits is asking a lot of this fan base. It's not like Kizer is the 1st or 2nd pick overall. He's a 2nd round QB that threw 2 nice deep balls in the preseason. I'd rather have the 21 year old watch Hogan from the sidelines real soon.
Coming off 1-15, after a 3-18 finish from the previous regime, 8 consecutive forfeits is asking a lot of this fan base. It's not like Kizer is the 1st or 2nd pick overall. He's a 2nd round QB that threw 2 nice deep balls in the preseason. I'd rather have the 21 year old watch Hogan from the sidelines real soon.
So which QB are you drafting with our first pick?
Or do you seriously think Hogan can be our franchise QB?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Coming off 1-15, after a 3-18 finish from the previous regime, 8 consecutive forfeits is asking a lot of this fan base. It's not like Kizer is the 1st or 2nd pick overall. He's a 2nd round QB that threw 2 nice deep balls in the preseason. I'd rather have the 21 year old watch Hogan from the sidelines real soon.
So which QB are you drafting with our first pick?
Or do you seriously think Hogan can be our franchise QB?
So which QB are you drafting with our first pick?
Or do you seriously think Hogan can be our franchise QB?
Too early to tell who I'd draft 2018. Not sure at all about Hogan being franchise material. I'm with PO on this one, what I've seen out of Kevin so far, he sucks less than Deshone. It was supposed to be building a winning culture, right? And we ain't winning. Kelly benched DK @ Notre Dame, and MHO is Hue should do the same thing here. At least for a couple of games. You afraid you're going to hurt is ego? He essentially got handed the starting job.
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Coming off 1-15, after a 3-18 finish from the previous regime, 8 consecutive forfeits is asking a lot of this fan base. It's not like Kizer is the 1st or 2nd pick overall. He's a 2nd round QB that threw 2 nice deep balls in the preseason. I'd rather have the 21 year old watch Hogan from the sidelines real soon.
So which QB are you drafting with our first pick?
Or do you seriously think Hogan can be our franchise QB?
So which QB are you drafting with our first pick?
Or do you seriously think Hogan can be our franchise QB?
Here is CBS top 10 draft prospects for next year...so far:
1 Arden Key DE 1 LSU Jr 6-6 238 2 Sam Darnold QB 1 Southern California Soph 6-4 225 3 Harold Landry OLB 1 Boston College Sr 6-3 250 4 Mason Rudolph QB 2 Oklahoma State Sr 6-5 230 5 Derwin James SS 1 Florida State Soph 6-3 211 6 Christian Wilkins DT 1 Clemson Jr 6-4 310 7 Derrius Guice RB 1 LSU Jr 5-11 212 8 Saquon Barkley RB 2 Penn State Jr 5-11 223 10 Tarvarus McFadden CB 1 Florida State Jr
Who do you like?
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Meh, its only been 3 games for the 21 y/o rookie.
He's played pretty crap and I don't understand why so many people are sucking his dick, but I'm not ready to replace him yet.
Still a lot of season left and plenty of time for improvement. Kizer is probably the only one that may end up being "the guy" on the roster. If he doesn't work out we're going to be looking to the draft - although a capable backup, I don't think Hogan is going to be our diamond in the rough.
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Meh, its only been 3 games for the 21 y/o rookie.
He's played pretty crap and I don't understand why so many people are sucking his dick, but I'm not ready to replace him yet.
Still a lot of season left and plenty of time for improvement. Kizer is probably the only one that may end up being "the guy" on the roster. If he doesn't work out we're going to be looking to the draft - although a capable backup, I don't think Hogan is going to be our diamond in the rough.
Meh, its only been 3 games for the 21 y/o rookie.
He's played pretty crap and I don't understand why so many people are sucking his dick, but I'm not ready to replace him yet.
Still a lot of season left and plenty of time for improvement. Kizer is probably the only one that may end up being "the guy" on the roster. If he doesn't work out we're going to be looking to the draft - although a capable backup, I don't think Hogan is going to be our diamond in the rough.
They have a couple of DBs on the list I posted above, and OLB and DE. Are the Browns in a position to take BPA? They may be....but would QB be the one spot they would pass on?
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PFF's take on Kizer's week... a perfectably reasonable one IMO.
QB DeShone Kizer, 69.7 overall grade
If you’re looking for a quarterback to take you to the playoffs this year, Kizer is not your guy. But that’s not what the Browns are focused on, and instead what they’ll be looking at is can he be a franchise quarterback in the long term. There was more good than bad (even with his receivers dropping three passes and doing a bad job of holding onto three more with defensive contact), including three big time throws that show he can really punish a defense over the top. But when it comes to 2017 there are too many errant throws and a tendency to hold the ball that bit too long.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
PFF's take on Kizer's week... a perfectably reasonable one IMO.
QB DeShone Kizer, 69.7 overall grade
If you’re looking for a quarterback to take you to the playoffs this year, Kizer is not your guy. But that’s not what the Browns are focused on, and instead what they’ll be looking at is can he be a franchise quarterback in the long term. There was more good than bad (even with his receivers dropping three passes and doing a bad job of holding onto three more with defensive contact), including three big time throws that show he can really punish a defense over the top. But when it comes to 2017 there are too many errant throws and a tendency to hold the ball that bit too long.
PFF's take on Kizer's week... a perfectably reasonable one IMO.
QB DeShone Kizer, 69.7 overall grade
If you’re looking for a quarterback to take you to the playoffs this year, Kizer is not your guy. But that’s not what the Browns are focused on, and instead what they’ll be looking at is can he be a franchise quarterback in the long term. There was more good than bad (even with his receivers dropping three passes and doing a bad job of holding onto three more with defensive contact), including three big time throws that show he can really punish a defense over the top. But when it comes to 2017 there are too many errant throws and a tendency to hold the ball that bit too long.
Accurate and fair review. My question (and i'm too lazy to look it up myself) how does this for a 3rd start compare to say Mariotta or Winston from 2 years ago? Guys who were starting right away on shitty teams.
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PFF's take on Kizer's week... a perfectably reasonable one IMO.
QB DeShone Kizer, 69.7 overall grade
If you’re looking for a quarterback to take you to the playoffs this year, Kizer is not your guy. But that’s not what the Browns are focused on, and instead what they’ll be looking at is can he be a franchise quarterback in the long term. There was more good than bad (even with his receivers dropping three passes and doing a bad job of holding onto three more with defensive contact), including three big time throws that show he can really punish a defense over the top. But when it comes to 2017 there are too many errant throws and a tendency to hold the ball that bit too long.
Accurate and fair review. My question (and i'm too lazy to look it up myself) how does this for a 3rd start compare to say Mariotta or Winston from 2 years ago? Guys who were starting right away on shitty teams.
Accurate and fair review. My question (and i'm too lazy to look it up myself) how does this for a 3rd start compare to say Mariotta or Winston from 2 years ago? Guys who were starting right away on shitty teams.
Here you go Mark O,
accuracy and Ints seem the big worry compared to the other two guys, and with those traits being his issues coming out of college, lets hope he can sort them out.
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Accurate and fair review. My question (and i'm too lazy to look it up myself) how does this for a 3rd start compare to say Mariotta or Winston from 2 years ago? Guys who were starting right away on shitty teams.
Here you go Mark O,
accuracy and Ints seem the big worry compared to the other two guys, and with those traits being his issues coming out of college, lets hope he can sort them out.
Here you go Mark O,
accuracy and Ints seem the big worry compared to the other two guys, and with those traits being his issues coming out of college, lets hope he can sort them out.
Well his QB rating average is 30 points lower and he has thrown more INT than them both put together at that point.
Not looking like a first round QB currently
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Good thing then that we didn't spend a 1st on him...
On Winston's start he had Doug Martin (1400+ yd) running and Mike Evans (1200+ yd) as his #1 (?) WR. Question mark because Vincent Jackson was also with the team Jameis' rookie year. TN won six games that year.
Mariota? Titans, who went 3-13 (3-9 before MM was hurt) were led by Antonio Andrews in rushing (500+) and in receiving by Delanie Walker, hybrid TE, with just shy of 1100 yd. Mariota was 2nd in rushing with 252 yd.
Mariota clearly rose above his circumstance, but not Winston.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Good thing then that we didn't spend a 1st on him...
On Winston's start he had Doug Martin (1400+ yd) running and Mike Evans (1200+ yd) as his #1 (?) WR. Question mark because Vincent Jackson was also with the team Jameis' rookie year. TN won six games that year.
Mariota? Titans, who went 3-13 (3-9 before MM was hurt) were led by Antonio Andrews in rushing (500+) and in receiving by Delanie Walker, hybrid TE, with just shy of 1100 yd. Mariota was 2nd in rushing with 252 yd.
Mariota clearly rose above his circumstance, but not Winston.
Mariota? Titans, who went 3-13 (3-9 before MM was hurt) were led by Antonio Andrews in rushing (500+) and in receiving by Delanie Walker, hybrid TE, with just shy of 1100 yd. Mariota was 2nd in rushing with 252 yd.
Mariota clearly rose above his circumstance, but not Winston.
And Mariota was the #1 overall pick in the draft. His numbers are good (better than Kizers) but he was also not setting the world on fire either. I was at that game against the Browns and he looked extremely average against a pretty bad Browns team.
My point will remain that you have to be patient and can't make any definite decisions regarding his future (or lack of) as a starting QB in the NFL for at least a few weeks.
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