DeShaun Watson
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I'm trying hard NOT to criticize Kizer TOO much. His defense doesn't force FG's, his WRs don't make any plays, and one WR has caused 2 or 3 picks pretty much by himself. He doesn't have weapons, he doesn't get special teams help, and his favorite receiver got hurt almost immediately. That's pretty tough guys.
The truth of the matter is that if he has a good game next week all can be forgiven. He just needs to start progressing a bit more. And maybe he will.
I'm trying hard NOT to criticize Kizer TOO much. His defense doesn't force FG's, his WRs don't make any plays, and one WR has caused 2 or 3 picks pretty much by himself. He doesn't have weapons, he doesn't get special teams help, and his favorite receiver got hurt almost immediately. That's pretty tough guys.
The truth of the matter is that if he has a good game next week all can be forgiven. He just needs to start progressing a bit more. And maybe he will.
Here's news... he is already improving.
No.. it's not translating to wins at the moment, but his sacks are trending down... 7-2-1-1 for Weeks 1 - 4 in order. Anyone bitching today about "throw it away" or "check it down"? Now it's all about "touch" and "accuracy". When one problem ceases, but is replaced by another... that's a form of "progress".
It was no secret that Watson was coming into the league "most NFL ready". The question came in comparing ceilings.
Last point... Watson has to work out for Houston. They are married to him by the price they paid... that they paid us. Whereas we are just engaged to Kizer. Going to give him the time in 2017 to see if we can be happy with him for the rest of his (football) life. If he can, great! If he can't, we'll get engaged to a new one.
I still like our arrangement.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm trying hard NOT to criticize Kizer TOO much. His defense doesn't force FG's, his WRs don't make any plays, and one WR has caused 2 or 3 picks pretty much by himself. He doesn't have weapons, he doesn't get special teams help, and his favorite receiver got hurt almost immediately. That's pretty tough guys.
The truth of the matter is that if he has a good game next week all can be forgiven. He just needs to start progressing a bit more. And maybe he will.
Here's news... he is already improving.
No.. it's not translating to wins at the moment, but his sacks are trending down... 7-2-1-1 for Weeks 1 - 4 in order. Anyone bitching today about "throw it away" or "check it down"? Now it's all about "touch" and "accuracy". When one problem ceases, but is replaced by another... that's a form of "progress".
It was no secret that Watson was coming into the league "most NFL ready". The question came in comparing ceilings.
Last point... Watson has to work out for Houston. They are married to him by the price they paid... that they paid us. Whereas we are just engaged to Kizer. Going to give him the time in 2017 to see if we can be happy with him for the rest of his (football) life. If he can, great! If he can't, we'll get engaged to a new one.
I still like our arrangement.
Here's news... he is already improving.
No.. it's not translating to wins at the moment, but his sacks are trending down... 7-2-1-1 for Weeks 1 - 4 in order. Anyone bitching today about "throw it away" or "check it down"? Now it's all about "touch" and "accuracy". When one problem ceases, but is replaced by another... that's a form of "progress".
It was no secret that Watson was coming into the league "most NFL ready". The question came in comparing ceilings.
Last point... Watson has to work out for Houston. They are married to him by the price they paid... that they paid us. Whereas we are just engaged to Kizer. Going to give him the time in 2017 to see if we can be happy with him for the rest of his (football) life. If he can, great! If he can't, we'll get engaged to a new one.
I still like our arrangement.
I pretty much agree with everything you're saying about Kizer, and I am beyond hopeful that he will have a good week soon. When Kizer was announced as our starter for the year, we knew there'd be struggles, no doubt. I made the comment that not much else matters this season other than establishing that Kizer has the potential to be our future QB. Even if we don't get more wins than last year, if Kizer takes the steps management needs to see that solidifies him as our #1 QB, the SEASON IS A SUCCESS. We'd get to use our vast draft arsenal on everything BUT the QB, and how amazing will THAT be? That's how teams are created, that's how teams go from crappy, miserable seasons, to actually making sustainable progress. They get their QB, and then they start adding pieces.
All that being said, we need Kizer to take a few more steps. It doesn't have to equate in "wins" per say, but we need to see a higher completion percentage. We need to see a few long TD passes, sustained drives, quicker reads, running for 1st downs, taking care of the ball, and displaying far better accuracy. Obviously our receivers AREN'T helping matters, and Britt is single handily ruining Kizer's numbers. Those big drops, the INT's from those drops, the drive killing penalties, and not BEING THERE for our young QB are devastating. Britt should be doing the OPPOSITE, and for whatever reason, it's just not happening.
Before the season started, if you were to ask who was the ONE offensive player we couldn't lose, I'd tell you it was Corey Coleman. It's rotten luck, and we all know it. It's tough to simply add a competent WR at this point in the game, but we have to try. In some ways, Kizer IS making progress in how he sees the field. He's making some truly great throws, and we really should've gotten points on two of our first three drives. Yeah our defense sucked again, but Kizer played well enough early to get us some points, and that's the real crime here. People let him down...again.
And that brings me to the defense. Other than Britt and the other WR's, that's what is REALLY killing Kizer's chances of making sustainable progress. You just can't ask a 21 year-old rookie QB to keep throwing the ball all of the damn time when he's down 20 points. THAT'S HOW YOU RUIN SOMEBODY. Kizer will either get hurt, get his confidence shaken, or both. Look at what happened to Kessler. He was never the same after that last concussion. We can't have that happen to Kizer, and the defense MUST step up. Not only the players, but Gregg Williams too. He called a truly awful game, and he knows it.
Against the Jets, I want to see our defense hold the game CLOSE. I want to see them actually force some darn FG's instead of giving up TD's every dang time. I want to see Kizer and the offense score some first quarter points, and I DON'T want to see our WRs drop quality passes. If we do those things, and that's not asking the world, we can get a better picture of Kizer and his progress.
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Here's news... he is already improving.
No.. it's not translating to wins at the moment, but his sacks are trending down... 7-2-1-1 for Weeks 1 - 4 in order. Anyone bitching today about "throw it away" or "check it down"? Now it's all about "touch" and "accuracy". When one problem ceases, but is replaced by another... that's a form of "progress".
It was no secret that Watson was coming into the league "most NFL ready". The question came in comparing ceilings.
Last point... Watson has to work out for Houston. They are married to him by the price they paid... that they paid us. Whereas we are just engaged to Kizer. Going to give him the time in 2017 to see if we can be happy with him for the rest of his (football) life. If he can, great! If he can't, we'll get engaged to a new one.
I still like our arrangement.
I pretty much agree with everything you're saying about Kizer, and I am beyond hopeful that he will have a good week soon. When Kizer was announced as our starter for the year, we knew there'd be struggles, no doubt. I made the comment that not much else matters this season other than establishing that Kizer has the potential to be our future QB. Even if we don't get more wins than last year, if Kizer takes the steps management needs to see that solidifies him as our #1 QB, the SEASON IS A SUCCESS. We'd get to use our vast draft arsenal on everything BUT the QB, and how amazing will THAT be? That's how teams are created, that's how teams go from crappy, miserable seasons, to actually making sustainable progress. They get their QB, and then they start adding pieces.
All that being said, we need Kizer to take a few more steps. It doesn't have to equate in "wins" per say, but we need to see a higher completion percentage. We need to see a few long TD passes, sustained drives, quicker reads, running for 1st downs, taking care of the ball, and displaying far better accuracy. Obviously our receivers AREN'T helping matters, and Britt is single handily ruining Kizer's numbers. Those big drops, the INT's from those drops, the drive killing penalties, and not BEING THERE for our young QB are devastating. Britt should be doing the OPPOSITE, and for whatever reason, it's just not happening.
Before the season started, if you were to ask who was the ONE offensive player we couldn't lose, I'd tell you it was Corey Coleman. It's rotten luck, and we all know it. It's tough to simply add a competent WR at this point in the game, but we have to try. In some ways, Kizer IS making progress in how he sees the field. He's making some truly great throws, and we really should've gotten points on two of our first three drives. Yeah our defense sucked again, but Kizer played well enough early to get us some points, and that's the real crime here. People let him down...again.
And that brings me to the defense. Other than Britt and the other WR's, that's what is REALLY killing Kizer's chances of making sustainable progress. You just can't ask a 21 year-old rookie QB to keep throwing the ball all of the damn time when he's down 20 points. THAT'S HOW YOU RUIN SOMEBODY. Kizer will either get hurt, get his confidence shaken, or both. Look at what happened to Kessler. He was never the same after that last concussion. We can't have that happen to Kizer, and the defense MUST step up. Not only the players, but Gregg Williams too. He called a truly awful game, and he knows it.
Against the Jets, I want to see our defense hold the game CLOSE. I want to see them actually force some darn FG's instead of giving up TD's every dang time. I want to see Kizer and the offense score some first quarter points, and I DON'T want to see our WRs drop quality passes. If we do those things, and that's not asking the world, we can get a better picture of Kizer and his progress.
... if Kizer takes the steps management needs to see that solidifies him as our #1 QB, the SEASON IS A SUCCESS.
All that being said, we need Kizer to take a few more steps.
Agree... A not very close 2nd... at least in terms of success... is learning that Kizer is absolutely not our QB of the future. It's the middleground, the "maybe" zone that is the deadly trap.
Before the season started, if you were to ask who was the ONE offensive player we couldn't lose, I'd tell you it was Corey Coleman.
Before the season and this side of Kizer, and maybe Joe T, I'd agree.
So what to do about WR now? Can't hinge everything on the off-chance that JG is reinstated and still substantially the WR we can now barely remember, so I'm thinking trade. More on this in another thread.
And that brings me to the defense.
Which we still haven't seen... Danny, Jamie and Myles all have to return and that still leaves FS wanting with Peppers as a necessary least-worst option, but at least with the return of that trio we get closer to what we could be.
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even if Kizer totally flames out, it will still be better than if the Browns had spent 2 first round picks on a guy who will suffer an ACL tear sooner than later.
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Both teams in Texas were a quarterback away from being pretty damn good.
The Cleveland Browns were 52 players away from being really damn good.
Fock Watson.
WSS
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Ray Lewis said "if you needed a qb at #12, and you passed on watson, then you must've been watching different film than I watched. He's a culture changer and a born winner, and whatever 'it' is, he's clearly got it".
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Ray Lewis said "if you needed a qb at #12, and you passed on watson, then you must've been watching different film than I watched. He's a culture changer and a born winner, and whatever 'it' is, he's clearly got it".
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... and stole his player evaluation capability? Otherwise... kinda off topic.
Watson may rise from the highest floor of any QB in the 2017 draft, or may just stay on that floor. Someone pointed out in the thread that he has gouged some Ds that may not be very good, NE and TN. Did he make them look bad or did they make him look great? Stay tuned...
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The one thing no one here is mentioning is that part of the reason for Watson's success is the coach adapting to his play style. People like to dawg on Bill O'Brien, but I give the guy a TON of credit for using the strengths of his QB to the offense. That's the polar opposite of what Hue is doing with Kizer, and as Tour said there is some improvement from him. I just sincerely wonder how Kizer would be looking if we were playing to his strengths (run/read passes, boot legs, etc) as opposed to making WR run 1000 yards down the field every play.
Sigh....
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Ray Lewis said "if you needed a qb at #12, and you passed on watson, then you must've been watching different film than I watched. He's a culture changer and a born winner, and whatever 'it' is, he's clearly got it".
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These kinds of useless posts always spring up after someone has a big game. Then they disappear when said player comes back down to earth.
Give Kizer DeAndre Hopkins, Will Fuller and the Houston defense and let’s see how well he does.
These kinds of useless posts always spring up after someone has a big game. Then they disappear when said player comes back down to earth.
Give Kizer DeAndre Hopkins, Will Fuller and the Houston defense and let’s see how well he does.
he'll still suck balls.
so much for your analytics.
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even if Kizer totally flames out, it will still be better than if the Browns had spent 2 first round picks on a guy who will suffer an ACL tear sooner than later.
even if Kizer totally flames out, it will still be better than if the Browns had spent 2 first round picks on a guy who will suffer an ACL tear sooner than later.
like our unable to play #1 de pick?
last thing i want o do is buy ghoolie some bum rum cuz the browns couldn't win 5 games.........well, more money out the window on a franchise that couldn't smell it's own FECES (good try mods) coming out their own asses.
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Watson is more experienced and a better passer than Kizer. I don't see kizer putting up five touchdowns in a game yet, even on that team. Dude holds onto the ball too long.
Maybe or maybe not, but he damn sure isn’t set up for success like Watson is right now. It’s comparing apples to oranges.
Maybe or maybe not, but he damn sure isn’t set up for success like Watson is right now. It’s comparing apples to oranges.
well who you gonna blame that on? farmer and pettine? HA!!!!!
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Maybe or maybe not, but he damn sure isn’t set up for success like Watson is right now. It’s comparing apples to oranges.
well who you gonna blame that on? farmer and pettine? HA!!!!!
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