"Read a lot into it. Quinn on track to be the starter"
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Give me a QB that can beat the steelers and he gets my vote... Bernie beat em' and even if we lost it was still a good game.... These embarassments that we've been on the receiving end of sure do suck....
To beat em' you have to out play them, out think them and out coach them.... Quinn could possibly fit that bill and he needs a chance to show it... Let teh games begin...
peace
T.Dawg
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Give me a QB that can beat the steelers and he gets my vote... Bernie beat em' and even if we lost it was still a good game.... These embarassments that we've been on the receiving end of sure do suck....
To beat em' you have to out play them, out think them and out coach them.... Quinn could possibly fit that bill and he needs a chance to show it... Let teh games begin...
peace
T.Dawg
Give me a QB that can beat the steelers and he gets my vote... Bernie beat em' and even if we lost it was still a good game.... These embarassments that we've been on the receiving end of sure do suck....
To beat em' you have to out play them, out think them and out coach them.... Quinn could possibly fit that bill and he needs a chance to show it... Let teh games begin...
peace
T.Dawg
Man I hope so. 4-12 last season sucked, but it would have been like being 8-8 if we'd been able to beat PITT once or twice.
Then again, winning one against the Steelers might have saved RACs job. Guess it's a good thing we didn't.
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Zombo you hit the bull's eye...
The day of the off season of driving cabs, selling insurance, running a bar or restaurant are gone with the dinosaurs...
Most NFL players took off a few weeks then began their off season training program... Some did it in Berera, some with other NFL players, some in private programs...
I'm also amazed at the hatred thrown toward this kid... With some posters its as if he slept with their significant other...There have been multiple factors contributing to his poor won - loss record (thats what its all about, isn't it).....
By all logic, Quinn should be under center come opening day... I hope he lives up to his billing and performs in the mold of Sipe & Kosar...
However, with the injury rate of todays QB's, Anderson is a good insurance policy if needed... Hasn't the mood here stated more than once that the prior coaching staff sucked and the new regime will "coach them up" this year???? I guess we have to include DA in that assesment....
I just don't understand the hate for DA... I just don't get it>>>>
peace
T.Dawg
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Honestly, a good amount of the perceived ill will towards DA on this board is the direct result of the entity, human or otherwise, known as "Lumbergh".
I'm as guilty as the next guy of letting Lum's insanity affect my perception of DA.
So, to offset the Lum Bias effect, I just go back to this simple statement:
DA had his chance and failed, for reasons well documented. And now BQ deserves his shot.
It's that simple right now.
But I agree with Zombo, daddbull and shep that DA is still a valuable commodity and by all accounts a decent guy. I
(I've been making the commodity argument since DA's first big game. I was one of the few that was all for trading him as early as the mid-point of '07 simply on the cost-benefit analysis.)
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@shepwrite said:
I don't hate Derek Anderson and have never slagged the kid at all. He's by all accounts a good guy and I would pick him over Charlie Frye every Sunday for a million years. He has a big arm and throws a gorgeous ball quite effortlessly.I think there are a lot of things, all well discussed, that prevent him from being a true franchise quarterback in this league like Manning, Brady, Brees, Favre, and even Ryan, Rivers, Rodgers and a lot of others. There are holes in the mental aspect of the game and in his demeanor that haven't changed in the past eight years. Frankly, he would've made more sense in about 1975.
In today's NFL, he just doesn't work. Bombs don't happen often and beating sophisticated defenses with any consistency requires a really smart guy and about a 65% completion percentage with very few picks.
Indeed; could not agree more the kid throws a TON of picks and I have a feeling does not have the grey matter to lead an NFL squad on the field
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It was my understanding that Quinn simply had enough of Smith's loud mouth; you never stand down to a bully and Smith seems every part of the fat ass bully that we all knew back in the day
DA simply drives me nuts with his penchant of INT(s) and blown medium level throws...we shall see
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Shep, you have some good points in this thread. DA can throw it as well as anybody, and he is accurate even on the short and intermittent stuff during drills and practice. He'll tear up just about anybody in 7 on 7's and when he is wearing that red jersey in training camp he can still look good in full on contact scrimmages. The problem is, you can throw all that out the window come game time against real defenses.
The guy is worthless if the primary is covered, and a lot of it is related to his big feet and poor footwork. Once he is out of his rhythm it's over and at that point it's impossible to predict where the ball is going. I just don't think this is something that he will ever figure out, it's not in his makeup. Last season was just so tough to judge anybody, but the bottom line is I saw him reverting back to the same old issues he's always had. The guy is not a playmaker in the sense he can smartly keep drives alive with his feet, buying time hitting guys in stride for YAC, etc. When the pressure comes he is going to chuck it up to the primary, always has and probably always will. He doesn't have near what Quinn does in the intangibles department that moves the chains, and I don't need to see anymore of Quinn to know that. You can roll about 30 QB's in the league out there that are better than DA at that stuff, and certainly Quinn is one of them.
My main concerns with Quinn are downfield accuracy and staying healthy, I'm pretty sure the rest of his game is just fine and especially is conducive to this offense.
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Honestly, a good amount of the perceived ill will towards DA on this board is the direct result of the entity, human or otherwise, known as "Lumbergh".
I'm as guilty as the next guy of letting Lum's insanity affect my perception of DA.
So, to offset the Lum Bias effect, I just go back to this simple statement:
DA had his chance and failed, for reasons well documented. And now BQ deserves his shot.
It's that simple right now.
But I agree with Zombo, daddbull and shep that DA is still a valuable commodity and by all accounts a decent guy. I
(I've been making the commodity argument since DA's first big game. I was one of the few that was all for trading him as early as the mid-point of '07 simply on the cost-benefit analysis.)
DA had his chance and failed, for reasons well documented. And now BQ deserves his shot.
It's that simple right now.
no, it's about who's the better QB. Same as it always is.
the only thing that could change that is Lerner pulling another Al Davis like he did last year.
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no, it's about who's the better QB. Same as it always is.
the only thing that could change that is Lerner pulling another Al Davis like he did last year.
You've done good work in covering all bases here Lumfreddy, gotta love it.
So the best QB will start unless it's Quinn, at that point it's because Lerner is meddling.
I gotcha.
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@shepwrite said:
There are definite differences between the two, though. Quinn is (unless evidence lies) a smarter guy who absorbs an offense and gets through his reads quicker. He's also a noted workaholic like Manning, a guy who will know the opposing defense as well as possible. He's a fitness freak. He's a way better athlete and more mobile than Anderson.Anderson is a laid back guy unlikely to care if a team becomes "his team," which is good because it could never be. He's a very gifted natural thrower with a big arm and a tight spiral. He's way more comfortable going over the top downfield, which is sort of the modern day NFL version of a Yeti, unfortunately. It can be taken away pretty easily and when it was, Anderson became the lowest rated passer in the NFL.
Never again in his life will DA be given the deep ball. Never. Ditto for Jamarcus Russell. Can they transform into giant Drew Breeses? Probably not... which means they're screwed.
So can Quinn be the guy he's most compared to, Tom Brady? He has a very similar arm but Brady has become consistently accurate all over the field, something Quinn has yet to prove. I don't believe Quinn has arm strength issues at all -- he has more arm than Brees, about the same as Manning and Brady -- but he does have to show he can stay locked in on the strike zone, even 30 yards downfield.
We'll see. Manning always says knowing what you're doing with the ball improves your footwork and anticipation... and therefore your accuracy. Almost any quarterback can throw patterns to uncovered WRs over and over and over. In that sense, almost all of them are "accurate." But add in a tricky pass defense and some pressure and that changes everything.
So we'll see what Quinn can do given the reins for 10 games or so. I don't see how we do otherwise.
shep once again your praise has no basis.
who told you quinn absorbed the offense and got through reads better?
The reason Quinn checked down instantly was because he DOESN'T know his reads.
Basically he's like Charlie Frye except with a 15% lower completion percentage.
And nobody outside of Fatso Weis ever compared Quinn to Tom Brady.
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I am sure another complete A-hole post from our friend in Oregon...that place must be the land of the lost
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@shepwrite said:
...So can Quinn be the guy he's most compared to, Tom Brady?...
Thanks Shep. I've been waiting to post this of me (on left) and my brother-in-law.
On DA vs BQ smarts, intelligence is hard to guage in this context. However, I will say I did not see Quinn (at ND) look as lost and clueless as DA has at times. He manages a clock well (we've seen DA mess this up), and Weis has always said he's like having another coach on the field. If the helmet com goes dead, I'm betting Quinn will just call a play, not run to the sidelines looking for answers.
Having said that, I like DA. He's affable, has a big arm, etc, etc. I'm just sooooooo ready to see what Quinn can do. That's all.
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@shepwrite said:
Lum, if you're a draftnick and a football nutreading "Bleacher Reports" and following the OBR spoogefest doesn't mean you know football shep.
the real news is what the players/coaches say in their interviews. And by the number of reporter recaps you post and the Grossi slants you accept it seems that you don't watch the interviews on clevelandbrowns.com
And if any reputable non-Notre Dame based publication claimed that Brady Quinn was gonna be Tom Brady then Quinn is on the brink of becoming one of the biggest busts in history.
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Just a few questions---- Who is comparing Brady Quinn (with 3 starts) to Tom Brady???? Who says that the Browns could NEVER be DA's team?????
If we're gonna give Quinn credit for the 2 dropped passes in his "cameo" against SF then we must give DA credit for the numerous dropped passes that he's endured...
Quinn is smarter,
Quinn absorbs the offense better than DA,
Quinn goes through his reads quicker than DA (is that with or without the concussion),
Quinn is a workaholic,
Quinn is a fitness freak (don't know what that has to do with anything),
Quinn is a way better athlete (assumption not fact).........
So many absolutes thrown Quinns way but in reality it's just opinions....
My question about BQ is --CAN HE BEAT THE STEELERS and so far nobody has that answer... More than likely Quinn starts this year, he deserves the chance and for the Browns sake I hope he's better than DA..But on the other hand, IMO, DA ain't exactly chopped liver.....
peace
T.Dawg
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@shepwrite said:
I'm not sure I'm following all the way, Zombo. We're talking vital characteristics of great quarterbacks and you're saying... something I'm not quite getting. None of it matters?From what I read and I read a lot, Quinn gets through his progressions much more quickly, reads defenses better, and got a higher score on his Wonderlic. Weis said nobody including Tom Brady ever picked up his offense so fast. I'm following the fairly popular opinion that Quinn is smarter than Anderson. It ain't a huge stretch.
Better athlete? Well, Quinn is faster, stronger, and quicker. I'm not sure if you're being obtuse about either of these points, but it really isn't a stretch to say Quinn is smarter, more athletic/mobile, and harder working.
Is he more of a leader type? That's how I've always heard it. He's a more fiery guy, a more take-charge-of-the-huddle guy. Anderson is more laid back, not a very big personality. Does he "have the locker room?" Not as sure what that means. I think he's a nice guy and people are fine with him.
Does he fire anybody up, inspire confidence? I don't see that at all, nor have I ever read it.
shep these are things that YOU think when YOU look at Quinn. You are attracted to him and that does crazy things to your hormones.
There isn't anything to back up your feelings on leadership, being fiery, taking charge of the huddle, time spent working out, ability to run an offense, even athletic ability. It's all stuff that you dream up and it has to do with your estrogen level.
I'm pretty impressed that you continue to pimp Quinn as a leader with all the shit that's happened to him as evidence of the opposite. So you're focused at least.
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Zombo, good post.
However, I disagree on the "he moves well for a big guy" thing. He moves like shit. His footwork when he's under pressure is a real liability. He simply can't avoid the rush at the level of most NFL QB's and when his feet get "happy" his ability to improvise is severly limited. He does not move anywhere near as well as Brady/Rot-less-burger. Hell, he doesn't move as well inside the pocket as Manning (who is damn well immobile). He might have been all state in basketball, but it was probably wasn't because he was slashing to the rim.
He's a good golfer which fits the small motor movement stuff needed by most QB's.
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@inspecta said:
Just wait till Quinn beats the snot out of DA in training camp and he goes ballistic on the boards pulling the "lerner is calling the shots" card. It's really going to be a hoot....Seeing as how it's a fact that Lerner made the QB switch last season (reported by Trent Dilfer, acknowledged by Fraley-Braylon-Jamal, confirmed by Anderson), it's certainly reasonable to look out for it in the future.
On the other hand, you and the rest of BQ Nation are stuck having to try to promote an idea that was rejected by the doctors, the coaches, and Quinn himself: that the boo boo on his finger was the sole reason he couldn't complete more than one third of his passes vs Buffalo and Houston.
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Honestly, a good amount of the perceived ill will towards DA on this board is the direct result of the entity, human or otherwise, known as "Lumbergh".
I'm as guilty as the next guy of letting Lum's insanity affect my perception of DA.
So, to offset the Lum Bias effect, I just go back to this simple statement:
DA had his chance and failed, for reasons well documented. And now BQ deserves his shot.
It's that simple right now.
But I agree with Zombo, daddbull and shep that DA is still a valuable commodity and by all accounts a decent guy. I
(I've been making the commodity argument since DA's first big game. I was one of the few that was all for trading him as early as the mid-point of '07 simply on the cost-benefit analysis.)
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Zombo said:
Shep you are right that Quinn is a workaholic and a fitness freak, and more mobile. However, I don't know why you consider him smarter and a better athlete. If he was a better athlete wouldn't he have the better arm? Wasn't Anderson a basketball star? He moves good for a big guy and has a rocket arm ... that's a good athlete.And Quinn moves better, and has better accuracy, as well as plenty of arm. Hence 'better athlete'.
As for the "smarter" thing, it's obvious that it's obvious to you ... but based on what? A wunderlic score? Anderson has never struck me as dumb and Quinn has never struck me as Einstein. They're both smart enough ... stick to your gym rat theory, that is what Quinn has going for him ... and better (let's hope) accuracy.
Based on the fact that Quinn seems to have been able to pick up the two minute drill on 2-3 days worth of practice, while Anderson STILL can't run the damn thing without help from the sidelines.
Who was wearing a wristband his second season of starting?
Yeah. That Derek.
Again ... not buying it. Big arms will never be passe in the NFL . They just need to come with accuracy as well. That is what Anderson is missing. Brees is the exception, not the rule. Brady, P. Manning and Big Gay Ben all have very strong arms ... and six super bowls. Big arms and big bodies are still valued .. you just need to be accurate too.
Neither Tom Brady NOR Peyton Manning have huge, Anderson-type arms. Favre has a big arm. No one says 'OMG, look at how far Tom Brady/Peyton Manning can chuck the ball' nor 'that got there on a rope', because they aren't that impressive. Ben's arm isn't what gets him the attention - it's that he strong/big enough to drag tacklers and throw the ball.
Derek doesn't have Ben's size - he's a tall guy, who is easy to tackle, and gets a heck of a lot of passes knocked down for being so tall.
Big bodies might be valued, but only if they are the right 'type'. Same with strong arms. Too bad for Derek he has neither of the valuable ones.
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