"Read a lot into it. Quinn on track to be the starter"

Lumbergh

@shepwrite said:
Lum, if you're a draftnick and a football nut

reading "Bleacher Reports" and following the OBR spoogefest doesn't mean you know football shep.

the real news is what the players/coaches say in their interviews. And by the number of reporter recaps you post and the Grossi slants you accept it seems that you don't watch the interviews on clevelandbrowns.com

And if any reputable non-Notre Dame based publication claimed that Brady Quinn was gonna be Tom Brady then Quinn is on the brink of becoming one of the biggest busts in history.

daddybull1

Just a few questions---- Who is comparing Brady Quinn (with 3 starts) to Tom Brady???? Who says that the Browns could NEVER be DA's team?????

If we're gonna give Quinn credit for the 2 dropped passes in his "cameo" against SF then we must give DA credit for the numerous dropped passes that he's endured...

Quinn is smarter,

Quinn absorbs the offense better than DA,

Quinn goes through his reads quicker than DA (is that with or without the concussion),

Quinn is a workaholic,

Quinn is a fitness freak (don't know what that has to do with anything),

Quinn is a way better athlete (assumption not fact).........

So many absolutes thrown Quinns way but in reality it's just opinions....

My question about BQ is --CAN HE BEAT THE STEELERS and so far nobody has that answer... More than likely Quinn starts this year, he deserves the chance and for the Browns sake I hope he's better than DA..But on the other hand, IMO, DA ain't exactly chopped liver.....

peace

T.Dawg

Lumbergh

@shepwrite said:
I'm not sure I'm following all the way, Zombo. We're talking vital characteristics of great quarterbacks and you're saying... something I'm not quite getting. None of it matters?
From what I read and I read a lot, Quinn gets through his progressions much more quickly, reads defenses better, and got a higher score on his Wonderlic. Weis said nobody including Tom Brady ever picked up his offense so fast. I'm following the fairly popular opinion that Quinn is smarter than Anderson. It ain't a huge stretch.

Better athlete? Well, Quinn is faster, stronger, and quicker. I'm not sure if you're being obtuse about either of these points, but it really isn't a stretch to say Quinn is smarter, more athletic/mobile, and harder working.

Is he more of a leader type? That's how I've always heard it. He's a more fiery guy, a more take-charge-of-the-huddle guy. Anderson is more laid back, not a very big personality. Does he "have the locker room?" Not as sure what that means. I think he's a nice guy and people are fine with him.

Does he fire anybody up, inspire confidence? I don't see that at all, nor have I ever read it.

shep these are things that YOU think when YOU look at Quinn. You are attracted to him and that does crazy things to your hormones.

There isn't anything to back up your feelings on leadership, being fiery, taking charge of the huddle, time spent working out, ability to run an offense, even athletic ability. It's all stuff that you dream up and it has to do with your estrogen level.

I'm pretty impressed that you continue to pimp Quinn as a leader with all the shit that's happened to him as evidence of the opposite. So you're focused at least.

Greythan

Zombo, good post.

However, I disagree on the "he moves well for a big guy" thing. He moves like shit. His footwork when he's under pressure is a real liability. He simply can't avoid the rush at the level of most NFL QB's and when his feet get "happy" his ability to improvise is severly limited. He does not move anywhere near as well as Brady/Rot-less-burger. Hell, he doesn't move as well inside the pocket as Manning (who is damn well immobile). He might have been all state in basketball, but it was probably wasn't because he was slashing to the rim.

He's a good golfer which fits the small motor movement stuff needed by most QB's.

Lumbergh

@inspecta said:
Just wait till Quinn beats the snot out of DA in training camp and he goes ballistic on the boards pulling the "lerner is calling the shots" card. It's really going to be a hoot....

Seeing as how it's a fact that Lerner made the QB switch last season (reported by Trent Dilfer, acknowledged by Fraley-Braylon-Jamal, confirmed by Anderson), it's certainly reasonable to look out for it in the future.

On the other hand, you and the rest of BQ Nation are stuck having to try to promote an idea that was rejected by the doctors, the coaches, and Quinn himself: that the boo boo on his finger was the sole reason he couldn't complete more than one third of his passes vs Buffalo and Houston.

Lumbergh

@damajuki said:
I'm as guilty as the next guy of letting Lum's insanity affect my perception of DA.

that's because you are psychologically weak.

you're not alone. BQ Nation is full of sheep like you.

lemosley01

Zombo said:
Shep you are right that Quinn is a workaholic and a fitness freak, and more mobile. However, I don't know why you consider him smarter and a better athlete. If he was a better athlete wouldn't he have the better arm? Wasn't Anderson a basketball star? He moves good for a big guy and has a rocket arm ... that's a good athlete.

And Quinn moves better, and has better accuracy, as well as plenty of arm. Hence 'better athlete'.

As for the "smarter" thing, it's obvious that it's obvious to you ... but based on what? A wunderlic score? Anderson has never struck me as dumb and Quinn has never struck me as Einstein. They're both smart enough ... stick to your gym rat theory, that is what Quinn has going for him ... and better (let's hope) accuracy.

Based on the fact that Quinn seems to have been able to pick up the two minute drill on 2-3 days worth of practice, while Anderson STILL can't run the damn thing without help from the sidelines.

Who was wearing a wristband his second season of starting?

Yeah. That Derek.

Again ... not buying it. Big arms will never be passe in the NFL . They just need to come with accuracy as well. That is what Anderson is missing. Brees is the exception, not the rule. Brady, P. Manning and Big Gay Ben all have very strong arms ... and six super bowls. Big arms and big bodies are still valued .. you just need to be accurate too.

Neither Tom Brady NOR Peyton Manning have huge, Anderson-type arms. Favre has a big arm. No one says 'OMG, look at how far Tom Brady/Peyton Manning can chuck the ball' nor 'that got there on a rope', because they aren't that impressive. Ben's arm isn't what gets him the attention - it's that he strong/big enough to drag tacklers and throw the ball.

Derek doesn't have Ben's size - he's a tall guy, who is easy to tackle, and gets a heck of a lot of passes knocked down for being so tall.

Big bodies might be valued, but only if they are the right 'type'. Same with strong arms. Too bad for Derek he has neither of the valuable ones.

Lumbergh

Zombo said:

All he needs to do, is what we all suspect he can: be a better passer than Anderson, maintain it for a year or so ... and the job is all his.

Zombo

I also think it's that simple.

But this has also been the root of the golden boy's problems.

and as Chris Mortenson says, "Derek Anderson can throw the friggen football"

Lumbergh

@inspecta said:
Trent Dilfer is your ace in the hole for this theory?

No, Derek Anderson is.

And no, it's not a theory.

Drunkandstoopid

@greythan said:
Zombo, good post.
However, I disagree on the "he moves well for a big guy" thing. He moves like shit. His footwork when he's under pressure is a real liability. He simply can't avoid the rush at the level of most NFL QB's and when his feet get "happy" his ability to improvise is severly limited. He does not move anywhere near as well as Brady/Rot-less-burger. Hell, he doesn't move as well inside the pocket as Manning (who is damn well immobile). He might have been all state in basketball, but it was probably wasn't because he was slashing to the rim.

He's a good golfer which fits the small motor movement stuff needed by most QB's.

Since you opened up the whole movement thing.... The average NFL QB gets sacked about 5% of the time measured sacks vs. attempts. DA in his entire career has been sacked about 3.7% of the time. DA replaced a guy who has been sacked 12.5% of the time, even though at least one poster here went on for a year beyond the point DA replaced him going on about how mobile that QB was. Now Quinn is sitting pretty at less than 2% but he hasn't really played that much.. if it pans out he could be great.... but DA's record isn't bad, especially for a "big guy".

Here's an interesting link.... http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/361718

Aloha,

Steve

Lumbergh

Zombo said:

110 metres Hurdles, Quinn

FYI besides being high school POY in football and basketball, Anderson was also all state in track. His top event was the 110 HH where he placed top 4. Quinn would have no chance.

Drunkandstoopid

Zombo said:
How did this "popular opinion" that Quinn is smarter come about? I've never seen anyone (that matters) allude to any difference in intelligence between the two QBs. His college coach said he picked up the playbook quick? Ok ... did we hear from Derek's? I know Quinn studies alot, but that doesn't make him smarter. He may be. I don't know. How do you know? He is Irish so maybe he is brilliant...
Again with the wunderlic ... the list of great QBs that scored lower than Anderson is as long as your arm.

Athletic? One can run faster, the other can throw longer. Too bad one of them is not black, then we would know for sure who the better athlete is.

But if we held a decathalon here would be my bets:

100 metres, Quinn

Long Jump, Anderson

Shot, Anderson

High Jump, Quinn

400 metres, Quinn

110 metres Hurdles, Quinn

Discus, Anderson

Pole Vault, Anderson

Javelin, Anderson

1500 metres, Quinn

And for some reason you (Leinart Lover) are offended that I (Quinn's original pimp) won't go further and say he's smarter and has a better personality. I don't know who's smarter, I think they're both smart enough for the job. I don't know whose personality is better, I think they can both lead just fine. All I'm saying is that Quinn is probably the better passer, and that should win him the job.

It's OK to like them both. Isn't it?

Zombo

I'll give the edge to Quinn on the track comparison, he might pick up a couple, but Anderson may surprise people on the hurdles... he ran it in highschool and apparently did quite well.

The whole Leinart love thing with Shep amazes me.. Leinart is DA, They're quite comparable, only Leinart has a history of playing with better teams, yet being less successful at the NFL level.

Zombo you're really starting to make me wonder if you're lum.

DeadWombat

@lumbergh said:
I also think it's that simple.
But this has also been the root of the golden boy's problems.

and as Chris Mortenson says, "Derek Anderson can throw the friggen football"

I too can "throw the friggen football"

It doesnt mean I can hit a running reciever 20 yards out on the fly while I'm about sacked from the weak side.

Derek. Has. Inconsistency. And not the type that can be cured with a laxative. I love the guy, he's very personable and capable of great throws but the guy doesnt seem to be able to repeat his successes.

Lumbergh

@jadbf said:
Zombo write way too intelligently to lower himself

good one Tonto.

Lumbergh

@deadwombat said:
I too can "throw the friggen football"
It doesnt mean I can hit a running reciever on the fly while I'm about sacked from the weak side.

that's right, it doesn't mean you can do that.

But Chris Mortensen didn't say it about you.

DeadWombat

@lumbergh said:
that's right, it doesn't mean you can do that.
But Chris Mortensen didn't say it about you.

I dont think he said that about DA either, just that he can throw.... at least, thats what I think he said. I cant really find your source anywhere, lummy.

...

Wait, this Chris Mortensen is the one you're talking about?

Chris Mortensen: One Of The Worst Reporters In Sports

Oh, of course its just some uninformed nobody trashing a "well respected" NFL analyst, don't mind the fact that his points have merit to them.

How come I don't see the majority of NFL reporters touting Anderson also? Last time I checked, NFL Total Access were set on Quinn, saying that Anderson should have been gone long ago.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-tota...QB-competitions

Drunkandstoopid

@shepwrite said:
TD/INT ratio translates to wins -- the top four are Young, Brady, McNabb, and Manning. Anderson throws too many picks and completes too few of his passes to win consistently in today's NFL.

Shep, you are looking at an overall career when you name these 4. DA's thrown the ball 927 times, for a 1.22 TD/Int Ratio. After 1100 attempts Peyton Manning's TD/Int ratio was nearly identical to DA's current ratio. Steve Young's was just a tad better after 1100 attempts. McNabb's was pretty good at 1.68 after nearly 1300 attempts, and Tom Brady's was the best of the bunch at a thousand throws, with a 1.76 TD/Int ratio... but still worse than the 2/1 I see thrown out as a minimum acceptable TD/Int ratio.

Then let's look at some heroes here... Kosar's was probably better than all of them, Sipe's was all of .83.... way worse than DA. So what does it all mean? Basically, you can't compare the first couple years of a QB's play directly to a career of stats that have improved over time.

I won't even bother to check up on some of the Hall of Famers and soon to be Hall of Famers TD/Int ratios in their early career, but I suspect I'd find a surprising (to you anyways) lack of 2/1 TD/Int ratios in the mix.

Drunkandstoopid

@shepwrite said:
That's not really the point, D&S. It's that today's NFL passing games are far more efficient than in the past, and three of the four best in history are playing right now. Back in the day, you could get away with 1.22/1, but that's not good enough anymore.
The goal is now 2/1 and a 63% completion or higher. Guys like Rivers, Rodgers, and Ryan will be doing that with regularity. Cutler, too.

You are now backing up poorly thought out argument, by stating a fallacy... Indeed, Rodgers has a 2/1 TD/Int Ratio... in 1 year of starts. Cultler's last year was a 1.38, career 1.45, lower than DA's '07 numbers... only year he got close was the year he threw 9 TS to 5 Ints. Ryan has a career TD/Int total of 16/11, hardly a 2/1 ratio, and lower than DA's '07 results. While you were whining about DA's TD/Int ratio in 2007 - Rivers' was WORSE.. he certainly hasn't been doing it with regularity unless 2 of the 5 years he's played counts as "regularity".

@shepwrite said:
Wait... you're disputing that NFL passing offenses have become imminently more efficient, with completion percentages and TD/INT ratios much higher now than ever before? And that three of the four top ratio guys are in their primes right now? That with almost every offense connected to the WCO in some way, and every defense connected to Tampa 2 in some way, the day of the mad bombers is long gone?
And I'm the one with a poorly thought out argument? Pot, this is kettle. You're black.

Wow. Delusion, thy name is drunkandstoopid.

I Lol'd at this....