AJ McCarron
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What, SPECIFICALLY, is "all analytics" about the Browns? Not other teams. The Browns.
For someone whose nickname is "logic" it sure seems like you're just trolling because you don't have an answer.
From the article: The analytics side liked Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett. We drafted Garrett. NOT an analytics decision, whether you like it or not.
So since it's not every decision.. just some:
Exactly what makes this organization "different" than any other? Some decisions are analytics, and some aren't. And this is new....... how?
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
no talent evaluators
Talent evaluation is done via analytics ---- period.
Instead of asserting there's some "other" thing that Browns could magically do after which endless riches would result, perhaps it's time to consider that success in the NFL just might be tough.
Talent evaluation is done via analytics ---- period.
yes....but who is to say our FO is doing this right?
Bill Bellichek is someone who relies on a very analytics approach to football. My guess is that he would laugh at what the browns are currently doing....
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no talent evaluators
Talent evaluation is done via analytics ---- period.
Instead of asserting there's some "other" thing that Browns could magically do after which endless riches would result, perhaps it's time to consider that success in the NFL just might be tough.
Talent evaluation is done via analytics ---- period.
I don't think that is totally true. Analytics is used extensively...but not exclusively. I mean....talented evaluators still have to eyeball the talent that is out there...and they still have to judge their heart/character/determination. Analytics said Tom Brady was at best a 6th round long shot prospect. But other things do come into play.
Instead of asserting there's some "other" thing that Browns could magically do after which endless riches would result, perhaps it's time to consider that success in the NFL just might be tough.
Well...that is true..using analytics or not...or some combination.
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Talent evaluation is done via analytics ---- period.
yes....but who is to say our FO is doing this right?
Bill Bellichek is someone who relies on a very analytics approach to football. My guess is that he would laugh at what the browns are currently doing....
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Those other 31 franchises that use normal methods just don’t have the knowledge of Sashi.
1) The Browns have done what you proposed since 1999.. and have failed. Under 2 years later you want to stop -- because it's no less successful than anything else?
2) Burden's on you to prove exactly what is abnormal about Browns' decision-making... because all the proof shows that 100% of teams use analytics. Yes, all 32 teams. Not some, not part, not half -- all of them. The link goes through each team in detail, describing the GM-HC-FO utilization.
"Normal methods" in the NFL incorporate analytics at all stages of player evaluation. Time to stop pretending there's something magically different about Berea.
Under 2 years later you want to stop -- because it's no less successful than anything else?
NO LESS SUCCESSFUL??
We're 1-23 and have NEVER been more unsuccessful.
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What, SPECIFICALLY, is "all analytics" about the Browns? Not other teams. The Browns.
For someone whose nickname is "logic" it sure seems like you're just trolling because you don't have an answer.
From the article: The analytics side liked Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett. We drafted Garrett. NOT an analytics decision, whether you like it or not.
So since it's not every decision.. just some:
Exactly what makes this organization "different" than any other? Some decisions are analytics, and some aren't. And this is new....... how?
What, SPECIFICALLY, is "all analytics" about the Browns? Not other teams. The Browns.
For someone whose nickname is "logic" it sure seems like you're just trolling because you don't have an answer.
From the article: The analytics side liked Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett. We drafted Garrett. NOT an analytics decision, whether you like it or not.
So since it's not every decision.. just some:
Exactly what makes this organization "different" than any other? Some decisions are analytics, and some aren't. And this is new....... how?
Name the talent evaluator in house who is having their say in decision making on draft picks. I hope they weren’t behind the WR heavy draft that ended with a handful of sand.
If the Browns aren’t doing anything new then why am I hearing a few voices talking about how they are doing something different than previous regimes and other franchises? That seems to be the complaint that traditional methods didn’t work for the Browns thus this new process. Can’t have it both ways.
I know your pants get tight over analytics and PFF. The rest of us are less enthused. The results are pretty clear.
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What, SPECIFICALLY, is "all analytics" about the Browns? Not other teams. The Browns.
For someone whose nickname is "logic" it sure seems like you're just trolling because you don't have an answer.
From the article: The analytics side liked Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett. We drafted Garrett. NOT an analytics decision, whether you like it or not.
So since it's not every decision.. just some:
Exactly what makes this organization "different" than any other? Some decisions are analytics, and some aren't. And this is new....... how?
Name the talent evaluator in house who is having their say in decision making on draft picks. I hope they weren’t behind the WR heavy draft that ended with a handful of sand.
If the Browns aren’t doing anything new then why am I hearing a few voices talking about how they are doing something different than previous regimes and other franchises? That seems to be the complaint that traditional methods didn’t work for the Browns thus this new process. Can’t have it both ways.
I know your pants get tight over analytics and PFF. The rest of us are less enthused. The results are pretty clear.
Name the talent evaluator in house who is having their say in decision making on draft picks. I hope they weren’t behind the WR heavy draft that ended with a handful of sand.
If the Browns aren’t doing anything new then why am I hearing a few voices talking about how they are doing something different than previous regimes and other franchises? That seems to be the complaint that traditional methods didn’t work for the Browns thus this new process. Can’t have it both ways.
I know your pants get tight over analytics and PFF. The rest of us are less enthused. The results are pretty clear.
1) Talent evaluator - Everyone. They've said this repeatedly, you just haven't wanted to believe it. Consensus decision making is.. everyone.
2) Reread the above link. Every 2017 NFL team uses analytics. This is something new - FOR EVERY TEAM.
Your role is to show why Browns "new" way is substantially different than other teams' in 2017 ---- not different than the past, because that's a given for every team.
3) Seems to be the complaint?
You're the one who can't have it both ways ---- 4-12 is not working, yet you want to go back to the same method that brought us glorious seasons of 5-11.
4) I know you get your pants tight over repeating the same methods that brought us 5-11 teams. The rest of us are less enthused, because those results are clear.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
1) Talent evaluator - Everyone. They've said this repeatedly, you just haven't wanted to believe it. Consensus decision making is....everyone.
OK, fine, it is everyone......now name the one or two guys that are part of everyone that is actually worth a shite at doing their job. Not sure there is anyone.
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Name the talent evaluator in house who is having their say in decision making on draft picks. I hope they weren’t behind the WR heavy draft that ended with a handful of sand.
If the Browns aren’t doing anything new then why am I hearing a few voices talking about how they are doing something different than previous regimes and other franchises? That seems to be the complaint that traditional methods didn’t work for the Browns thus this new process. Can’t have it both ways.
I know your pants get tight over analytics and PFF. The rest of us are less enthused. The results are pretty clear.
1) Talent evaluator - Everyone. They've said this repeatedly, you just haven't wanted to believe it. Consensus decision making is.. everyone.
2) Reread the above link. Every 2017 NFL team uses analytics. This is something new - FOR EVERY TEAM.
Your role is to show why Browns "new" way is substantially different than other teams' in 2017 ---- not different than the past, because that's a given for every team.
3) Seems to be the complaint?
You're the one who can't have it both ways ---- 4-12 is not working, yet you want to go back to the same method that brought us glorious seasons of 5-11.
4) I know you get your pants tight over repeating the same methods that brought us 5-11 teams. The rest of us are less enthused, because those results are clear.
1) Talent evaluator - Everyone. They've said this repeatedly, you just haven't wanted to believe it. Consensus decision making is.. everyone.
2) Reread the above link. Every 2017 NFL team uses analytics. This is something new - FOR EVERY TEAM.
Your role is to show why Browns "new" way is substantially different than other teams' in 2017 ---- not different than the past, because that's a given for every team.
3) Seems to be the complaint?
You're the one who can't have it both ways ---- 4-12 is not working, yet you want to go back to the same method that brought us glorious seasons of 5-11.
4) I know you get your pants tight over repeating the same methods that brought us 5-11 teams. The rest of us are less enthused, because those results are clear.
No other team has completely scrapped any talent on their squad then tried to build from there. The other 31 use analytics as one tool in the toolbox. Not basing their entire approach on it, going so far as to bring in the guy who made it famous...in baseball.
Other teams have successfully brought themselves out of the dump without demolishing all of the in house talent. However, they also brought in the right people. The Browns seem cursed to bring in incompetent execs while the other franchises seem to have some hits with their misses. It appears the Browns are breaking new ground at being awful thanks in part to the front office a few people here adore. Empty offices could produce as many wins and progress as this front office has produced. No team will suck in NFL history as hard as the Browns have under Sashi and Co.
Sorry that people aren’t pumped about historic failure.
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1) Talent evaluator - Everyone. They've said this repeatedly, you just haven't wanted to believe it. Consensus decision making is....everyone.
OK, fine, it is everyone......now name the one or two guys that are part of everyone that is actually worth a shite at doing their job. Not sure there is anyone.
1) Talent evaluator - Everyone. They've said this repeatedly, you just haven't wanted to believe it. Consensus decision making is....everyone.
OK, fine, it is everyone......now name the one or two guys that are part of everyone that is actually worth a shite at doing their job. Not sure there is anyone.
Well I guess that means everyone that is under the roof right now can't evaluate talent.
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1) Talent evaluator - Everyone. They've said this repeatedly, you just haven't wanted to believe it. Consensus decision making is....everyone.
OK, fine, it is everyone......now name the one or two guys that are part of everyone that is actually worth a shite at doing their job. Not sure there is anyone.
Well I guess that means everyone that is under the roof right now can't evaluate talent.
Well I guess that means everyone that is under the roof right now can't evaluate talent.
Bingo
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Define "right" without referencing the Browns.
What, precisely, is "right" ?
'right'- picking good players in the draft and developing them.
'right'- not wasting 2nd round picks on sure thing useless players
'right'- smart free agent signings on players who add value to a team
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Define good.
Define developing.
Define wasting.
Define sure-thing-useless.
Define smart.
Define value.
I can't tell if you think you're being snarky.. or if you're actually trying to develop something. Those sentences sound like the beginning of an idea, but it really needs more fleshing out to become something specific, something that can be used to assess performance.
When you consider a numerical way to define value.......... that sure sounds like your own theory of analytics. Yet, wIthout precise [numerical, non-emotional, non-hand-waving] definitions of these terms, any situation can be twisted into whatever result you predetermined "should" be.. even if you actually are attempting to calmly think it through.
[is a successful development a 7th rounder who improves to getting a few starts such as Ahtyba Rubin in one season a few years ago? Or a second-rounder like Bitonio being a plug-and-play near AllPro from day 1 for many seasons? But what precisely are the numerical metrics of round player selected, number of starts earned? Is starts the right metric? Should there be levels of development, say colors to denote each level? What then are the numerical boundaries of each color?]
And when you attempt to come up with numerical definitions of these.... you'll run into the same questions that many people have disagreed with Sashi on.. but perhaps you [and anyone else who actually goes through the exercise] might understand the difficulty [and imprecise science] of building a team.
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Define good.
Define developing.
Define wasting.
Define sure-thing-useless.
Define smart.
Define value.
I can't tell if you think you're being snarky.. or if you're actually trying to develop something. Those sentences sound like the beginning of an idea, but it really needs more fleshing out to become something specific, something that can be used to assess performance.
When you consider a numerical way to define value.......... that sure sounds like your own theory of analytics. Yet, wIthout precise [numerical, non-emotional, non-hand-waving] definitions of these terms, any situation can be twisted into whatever result you predetermined "should" be.. even if you actually are attempting to calmly think it through.
[is a successful development a 7th rounder who improves to getting a few starts such as Ahtyba Rubin in one season a few years ago? Or a second-rounder like Bitonio being a plug-and-play near AllPro from day 1 for many seasons? But what precisely are the numerical metrics of round player selected, number of starts earned? Is starts the right metric? Should there be levels of development, say colors to denote each level? What then are the numerical boundaries of each color?]
And when you attempt to come up with numerical definitions of these.... you'll run into the same questions that many people have disagreed with Sashi on.. but perhaps you [and anyone else who actually goes through the exercise] might understand the difficulty [and imprecise science] of building a team.
Define good.
Define developing.
Define wasting.
Define sure-thing-useless.
Define smart.
Define value.
I can't tell if you think you're being snarky.. or if you're actually trying to develop something. Those sentences sound like the beginning of an idea, but it really needs more fleshing out to become something specific, something that can be used to assess performance.
When you consider a numerical way to define value.......... that sure sounds like your own theory of analytics. Yet, wIthout precise [numerical, non-emotional, non-hand-waving] definitions of these terms, any situation can be twisted into whatever result you predetermined "should" be.. even if you actually are attempting to calmly think it through.
[is a successful development a 7th rounder who improves to getting a few starts such as Ahtyba Rubin in one season a few years ago? Or a second-rounder like Bitonio being a plug-and-play near AllPro from day 1 for many seasons? But what precisely are the numerical metrics of round player selected, number of starts earned? Is starts the right metric? Should there be levels of development, say colors to denote each level? What then are the numerical boundaries of each color?]
And when you attempt to come up with numerical definitions of these.... you'll run into the same questions that many people have disagreed with Sashi on.. but perhaps you [and anyone else who actually goes through the exercise] might understand the difficulty [and imprecise science] of building a team.
Define “define”.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Define good.
Define developing.
Define wasting.
Define sure-thing-useless.
Define smart.
Define value.
I can't tell if you think you're being snarky.. or if you're actually trying to develop something. Those sentences sound like the beginning of an idea, but it really needs more fleshing out to become something specific, something that can be used to assess performance.
When you consider a numerical way to define value.......... that sure sounds like your own theory of analytics. Yet, wIthout precise [numerical, non-emotional, non-hand-waving] definitions of these terms, any situation can be twisted into whatever result you predetermined "should" be.. even if you actually are attempting to calmly think it through.
[is a successful development a 7th rounder who improves to getting a few starts such as Ahtyba Rubin in one season a few years ago? Or a second-rounder like Bitonio being a plug-and-play near AllPro from day 1 for many seasons? But what precisely are the numerical metrics of round player selected, number of starts earned? Is starts the right metric? Should there be levels of development, say colors to denote each level? What then are the numerical boundaries of each color?]
And when you attempt to come up with numerical definitions of these.... you'll run into the same questions that many people have disagreed with Sashi on.. but perhaps you [and anyone else who actually goes through the exercise] might understand the difficulty [and imprecise science] of building a team.
Define “define”.
Define “define”.
Define 1-23.
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So what if McCarron wins his case for FA? Do we go after him and forget about drafting a QB?
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Well I guess that means everyone that is under the roof right now can't evaluate talent.
Bingo
Bingo
I thought that "everyone" is just a code word for Jimmah
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I don't think everyone truly understands just how terrible Kizer has been this year. Fans and analysts were both completely aware that starting a young rookie QB would be challenging, but there's a difference between challenging and "freaking butt-awful terrible go away you're a disgrace" bad. Here's some stats for you:
Kizer is last in several NFL categories including rating (51.1), completion percentage (52.1), touchdown passes (3) and interceptions (11). The Browns are also next to last in scoring at 14.9 points per game.
So, after you're finished vomiting, let's look a little deeper into these cataclysmic stats, shall we? For comparison's sake, a rookie Brandon Weeden completed 58% of passes, had 14 TDs in the air, and 17 INTs. Weeden was NOT good, we know this. But Weeden DID have like 3 or 4 passes he could execute frequently, and Weeden still managed to play well enough to win the OCCASIONAL game. Granted, Weeden was like 20 years older than Kizer as a rookie, but whatever. You can also say Weeden had better targets. But the point is that Kizer will finish the season with like 7 TD passes and 26 INTs at his current pace. The point is that we will never win a game with him because he's so terrible (unless we get the magical game with a special team TD, defensive td, and whatever else).
Browns coaches and management know they needed something NOW. They realize they probably won't win a game with their current qb's. The Bengals asked for a ridiculous price because they knew we were basically bent over a barrel, while in prison, with two guys named Jamal and Jesus unbuttoning their fly and licking their chops. We realized too late that we wanted to trade and we didn't have enough time.
I'm not going to rehash my examples of Kizer's futility. We'll get plenty more this weekend. In fact, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance Kessler comes in at some point. Especially if the game is close and Kizer continues to stall out. I'm not sure Kizer will throw as many interceptions, but I do believe he'll be too hesitant to throw where he needs to, and this will cause a barrage of punts, our defense to get tired, and the score to blossom out of control. We've seen it before.
Regardless of how people feel about McCarron, I'd say it's a certainty he'd play better than Kizer, which obviously wouldn't require MUCH, but what's impossible to know is HOW much better he'd be. I'd say to just start Kessler, but his mobility is so awful and his upper body strength so miserable that he can't take ANY kind of hit without going down instantly. Without Joe Thomas, I worry about the pass protection and Kessler getting hunted down and basically killed. The complicating factor is that we haven't won a single game. If we just had one or two victories, it would be so different. The pressure would be considerably less, and we could start Kizer and see if he really does have anything (I say he doesn't). But without a win, our coaches know they have to do anything and everything possible to SOMEHOW get a W, and that makes a team desperate.
There's a part of me that says Cody Kessler should start if we get Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman back on the field together. I think Cody has the accuracy required to make ENOUGH passes to possibly score enough points to win a game. However, I also feel that it would be unfair to bench Kizer just when we ACTUALLY get viable weapons to throw it to. But honestly, Kizer hasn't thrown it to our current scrubs when they're open, especially in the red zone, so why would it matter if more talented people are open?
I'm officially on the "Kessler for week 11" bandwagon. That's the week Gordon is eligible for return and Corey hopefully will still be healthy. Josh Gordon, Corey Coleman, and Higgins in the slot. Toss in Njoku and Devalve with Duke and Crow out of the backfield...and you actually have something. I really believe Kessler can win a game or two with that lineup, and take some pressure off Hue Jackson.
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So what if McCarron wins his case for FA? Do we go after him and forget about drafting a QB?
So what if McCarron wins his case for FA? Do we go after him and forget about drafting a QB?
Possibly Texas. The difficulty of this is actually figuring out how much to PAY a guy like McCarron. We all remember the Matt Flynns of the world who received giant contracts based on limited sample sizes, so working out a contract is not easy to do. While I believe McCarron is an obvious upgrade, that really doesn't say much when you're comparing him to the literal WORST QB in the league.
My biggest concern with McCarron is his ceiling, ya know? Can he be a true franchise type guy, or is he simply a qualified backup? He's not fast. Not especially big. Doesn't have a plus arm, and really doesn't have much going on besides his knowledge of our offense, decent accuracy, and being a winner.
I still think we draft a QB very high in the draft AND sign a veteran. I think we're going to be VERY aggressive this year addressing the QB position...like nothing we've seen before. I honestly don't think people truly understand the difference just an AVERAGE QB would make on this team. If you go back and just look at how many TD passes Kizer missed, how many turnovers he caused in the red zone, and if a QB could've converted just a THIRD of those....who knows what our record is. Yes our receivers dropped a ton. Yes Britt caused two by himself on decent passes that would have been 1st downs. Yes they haven't gotten open nearly enough. But Kizer isn't delivering the rock when they DO get open, and now Hue is dumbing down the offense so much that we have zero scoring threats.
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