2018 QB Class
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Any mock draft that doesn't have Rosen in the top 10 is insane to me when virtually every scouting report has him rated as most nfl ready and best technical skills.
The less throwing motion /footwork changes needed, the better. It's like a golfer changing his swing after years and years. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. I'd rather have the guy who just needs to learn the plays and work on the NFL game
Allen may have most upside, but so does/did Kizer. They're very physically similar. Chances are he'll struggle if he's expected to be a day 1 starter.
Any mock draft that doesn't have Rosen in the top 10 is insane to me when virtually every scouting report has him rated as most nfl ready and best technical skills.
The less throwing motion /footwork changes needed, the better. It's like a golfer changing his swing after years and years. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. I'd rather have the guy who just needs to learn the plays and work on the NFL game
Allen may have most upside, but so does/did Kizer. They're very physically similar. Chances are he'll struggle if he's expected to be a day 1 starter.
They also said all that "most Pro Ready QB in the draft" stuff about Brady Quinn in 2007 before he slid all the way to #22 overall. Let's just say we've learned not to trust the "most NFL ready" tags. Brady Quinn and Josh Rosen both had former NFL Coaches as their College Head Coaches but that doesn't necessarily make them NFL ready. Didn't Rosen's Head Coach just get fired for going 4-8 in 2016 and 6-7 in 2017?
I only watched the first half of the video you showed. He did look technically sound. That said, he overthrew a couple wide open guys downfield that good NFL QBs would consider give-me's. And right near half time the commentator said "this offensive line has been giving Rosen all day to throw." It's a lot easier to keep good mechanics when you have all day to throw without 320 lb DTs in intimate space of QB preventing the ability to step into the throws.
I see that SD part of your screen name and get the sense Rosen is a local kid you're pulling hard for. I still don't see all the hype about this kid just yet. His numbers aren't special and his greatness hasn't carried that team to victories like a Dan Fouts used to have to do all the time in spite of a bad SD Chargers defense. That may sound unfair on my part but nothing about playing QB in Cleveland is fair at all. If he can't escalate the play of his current team why will Cleveland be easier for him?
My faves (Darnold and Mayfield) have concerns as well Tom - but I've seen both guys win consistently (sometimes requiring them to overcome adversity/mistakes).
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Any mock draft that doesn't have Rosen in the top 10 is insane to me when virtually every scouting report has him rated as most nfl ready and best technical skills.
The less throwing motion /footwork changes needed, the better. It's like a golfer changing his swing after years and years. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. I'd rather have the guy who just needs to learn the plays and work on the NFL game
Allen may have most upside, but so does/did Kizer. They're very physically similar. Chances are he'll struggle if he's expected to be a day 1 starter.
They also said all that "most Pro Ready QB in the draft" stuff about Brady Quinn in 2007 before he slid all the way to #22 overall. Let's just say we've learned not to trust the "most NFL ready" tags. Brady Quinn and Josh Rosen both had former NFL Coaches as their College Head Coaches but that doesn't necessarily make them NFL ready. Didn't Rosen's Head Coach just get fired for going 4-8 in 2016 and 6-7 in 2017?
I only watched the first half of the video you showed. He did look technically sound. That said, he overthrew a couple wide open guys downfield that good NFL QBs would consider give-me's. And right near half time the commentator said "this offensive line has been giving Rosen all day to throw." It's a lot easier to keep good mechanics when you have all day to throw without 320 lb DTs in intimate space of QB preventing the ability to step into the throws.
I see that SD part of your screen name and get the sense Rosen is a local kid you're pulling hard for. I still don't see all the hype about this kid just yet. His numbers aren't special and his greatness hasn't carried that team to victories like a Dan Fouts used to have to do all the time in spite of a bad SD Chargers defense. That may sound unfair on my part but nothing about playing QB in Cleveland is fair at all. If he can't escalate the play of his current team why will Cleveland be easier for him?
My faves (Darnold and Mayfield) have concerns as well Tom - but I've seen both guys win consistently (sometimes requiring them to overcome adversity/mistakes).
My faves (Darnold and Mayfield) have concerns as well Tom - but I've seen both guys win consistently (sometimes requiring them to overcome adversity/mistakes).
Without a doubt, all the top QBs have concerns. I'm starting to slowly understand what mjp has been harping on concerning this QB class.
That being said, how do you think Darnold or Mayfield would have done with UCLA? Or what would Rosen had done with USC or Oklahoma?
Because the talent level at Oklahoma and USC was light years ahead of UCLA. I'm pretty sure UCLA's defense is still giving up points...
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Any mock draft that doesn't have Rosen in the top 10 is insane to me when virtually every scouting report has him rated as most nfl ready and best technical skills.
The less throwing motion /footwork changes needed, the better. It's like a golfer changing his swing after years and years. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. I'd rather have the guy who just needs to learn the plays and work on the NFL game
Allen may have most upside, but so does/did Kizer. They're very physically similar. Chances are he'll struggle if he's expected to be a day 1 starter.
They also said all that "most Pro Ready QB in the draft" stuff about Brady Quinn in 2007 before he slid all the way to #22 overall. Let's just say we've learned not to trust the "most NFL ready" tags. Brady Quinn and Josh Rosen both had former NFL Coaches as their College Head Coaches but that doesn't necessarily make them NFL ready. Didn't Rosen's Head Coach just get fired for going 4-8 in 2016 and 6-7 in 2017?
I only watched the first half of the video you showed. He did look technically sound. That said, he overthrew a couple wide open guys downfield that good NFL QBs would consider give-me's. And right near half time the commentator said "this offensive line has been giving Rosen all day to throw." It's a lot easier to keep good mechanics when you have all day to throw without 320 lb DTs in intimate space of QB preventing the ability to step into the throws.
I see that SD part of your screen name and get the sense Rosen is a local kid you're pulling hard for. I still don't see all the hype about this kid just yet. His numbers aren't special and his greatness hasn't carried that team to victories like a Dan Fouts used to have to do all the time in spite of a bad SD Chargers defense. That may sound unfair on my part but nothing about playing QB in Cleveland is fair at all. If he can't escalate the play of his current team why will Cleveland be easier for him?
My faves (Darnold and Mayfield) have concerns as well Tom - but I've seen both guys win consistently (sometimes requiring them to overcome adversity/mistakes).
They also said all that "most Pro Ready QB in the draft" stuff about Brady Quinn in 2007 before he slid all the way to #22 overall. Let's just say we've learned not to trust the "most NFL ready" tags. Brady Quinn and Josh Rosen both had former NFL Coaches as their College Head Coaches but that doesn't necessarily make them NFL ready. Didn't Rosen's Head Coach just get fired for going 4-8 in 2016 and 6-7 in 2017?
I only watched the first half of the video you showed. He did look technically sound. That said, he overthrew a couple wide open guys downfield that good NFL QBs would consider give-me's. And right near half time the commentator said "this offensive line has been giving Rosen all day to throw." It's a lot easier to keep good mechanics when you have all day to throw without 320 lb DTs in intimate space of QB preventing the ability to step into the throws.
I see that SD part of your screen name and get the sense Rosen is a local kid you're pulling hard for. I still don't see all the hype about this kid just yet. His numbers aren't special and his greatness hasn't carried that team to victories like a Dan Fouts used to have to do all the time in spite of a bad SD Chargers defense. That may sound unfair on my part but nothing about playing QB in Cleveland is fair at all. If he can't escalate the play of his current team why will Cleveland be easier for him?
My faves (Darnold and Mayfield) have concerns as well Tom - but I've seen both guys win consistently (sometimes requiring them to overcome adversity/mistakes).
I don't think Rosen's that hyped up quite frankly. I think Allen and Darnold have far more hype from most analysts and fans. Mayfield is discussed far more than Rosen is.
Flugel- In context- his debut film was in reference to the Allen fans saying that Rosen sucks, but I don't think Allen's ever had as good of a game as Rosen did in his very first start out of HS. Now, of course all QB's miss some throws, but to go 80% completion for 3 TD's and 351 yds as an 18 yr old in your college debut against an ACC team (he's not playing against Rice or Mercer or something) with all the pressure of being a big time recruit, I don't know what else anyone could expect from a kid 6-8 months out of high school. it was an A+ performance, and you guys are a tough crowd!
He did have way better talent around him then as opposed to 2017 (Paul Perkins at RB, Myles Jack at LB)... but if you look at his numbers, they are consistent throughout his career. Can anyone honestly say that Rosen on a powerhouse team like USC or Ohio State or OK wouldn't have won almost every single game or had better numbers? I lived in LA for 13 years, and yeah, I'm not a USC fan, but I'm not a UCLA diehard fan either. I can acknowledge that USC is always good. Their QB's always win and always have good numbers because their teams are loaded, but how do they look in the NFL? Not great. You can't say that Rosen was the main reason their record sucked. Maybe in 2016 since he missed more than half the season with his shoulder injury... but his numbers are fine for completion % and TD to INT ratios.
I'm not saying he's 100% the best QB I've ever seen, or that nobody from this class is going to be great. I think several will be very good, but I just like the way he looks when throwing. I've seen enough throws completed in stride and on the money to think he'll be good as a pro. He just looks like an NFL passer.
When they played head to head, Kirk Herbstriet (who liked Darnold better before the season started) said Rosen is clearly more advanced and Darnold needs another year at USC to develop. (
) Yes, Rosen had some throws where you just wonder "WTF were you possibly thinking?" But I think a lot of that is simply pressing too hard to be the hero. He's taken some huge hits, but he just looks crisp when he's throwing it.I know Mora is obviously biased, but keep in mind he heaviliy recruited Darnold too. It doesn't change his reasoning about the differences in their games and why he loves both of them. He also discusses Baker Mayfield as well, and it's a pretty good watch.
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My faves (Darnold and Mayfield) have concerns as well Tom - but I've seen both guys win consistently (sometimes requiring them to overcome adversity/mistakes).
Without a doubt, all the top QBs have concerns. I'm starting to slowly understand what mjp has been harping on concerning this QB class.
That being said, how do you think Darnold or Mayfield would have done with UCLA? Or what would Rosen had done with USC or Oklahoma?
Because the talent level at Oklahoma and USC was light years ahead of UCLA. I'm pretty sure UCLA's defense is still giving up points...
Without a doubt, all the top QBs have concerns. I'm starting to slowly understand what mjp has been harping on concerning this QB class.
That being said, how do you think Darnold or Mayfield would have done with UCLA? Or what would Rosen had done with USC or Oklahoma?
Because the talent level at Oklahoma and USC was light years ahead of UCLA. I'm pretty sure UCLA's defense is still giving up points...
Exactly my reasoning. I'm not saying Rosen is a 100% lock at #1, but to think he's not a top 10 pick when half of the league desperately needs a QB is just insanity.
And yes, their defense might still be giving up points. They were horrible. Looking back at that 2015 film of UCLA, I'm reminded of how completely badass Myles Jack was. Guy was a steal for JAX
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Any mock draft that doesn't have Rosen in the top 10 is insane to me when virtually every scouting report has him rated as most nfl ready and best technical skills.
The less throwing motion /footwork changes needed, the better. It's like a golfer changing his swing after years and years. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. I'd rather have the guy who just needs to learn the plays and work on the NFL game
Allen may have most upside, but so does/did Kizer. They're very physically similar. Chances are he'll struggle if he's expected to be a day 1 starter.
The less throwing motion /footwork changes needed, the better. It's like a golfer changing his swing after years and years. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. I'd rather have the guy who just needs to learn the plays and work on the NFL game
...hard to argue that logic. At the onset I said I wanted the guy with the best mechanics.
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Rosen benefitted by a veteran team around him. That helps immensely to have better stats.
Here are the UCLA Seniors:
Defensive Back, Jaleel Wadood
Wide Receiver, Mossi Johnson
Running Back, Nate Starks
Linebacker, Kenny Young
Offensive Lineman, Najee Toran
Wide Receiver, Alex Van Dyke
Defensive Lineman, Jacob Tuioti-Mariner
Defensive Lineman, Matt Dickerson
Wide Receiver, Darren Andrews
Offensive Lineman, Scott Quessenberry
Offensive Lineman, Gyo Shojima
Offensive Lineman, Zach Bateman
Offensive Lineman, Poasi Moala
Offensive Lineman, Kenny Lacy
UCLA Underclassmen:
Wide Receiver, Jordan Lasley
Offensive Tackle, Kolton Miller
Tight End, Austin Roberts
Quarterback, Josh Rosen
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Rosen benefitted by a veteran team around him. That helps immensely to have better stats.
Here are the UCLA Seniors:
Defensive Back, Jaleel Wadood
Wide Receiver, Mossi Johnson
Running Back, Nate Starks
Linebacker, Kenny Young
Offensive Lineman, Najee Toran
Wide Receiver, Alex Van Dyke
Defensive Lineman, Jacob Tuioti-Mariner
Defensive Lineman, Matt Dickerson
Wide Receiver, Darren Andrews
Offensive Lineman, Scott Quessenberry
Offensive Lineman, Gyo Shojima
Offensive Lineman, Zach Bateman
Offensive Lineman, Poasi Moala
Offensive Lineman, Kenny Lacy
UCLA Underclassmen:
Wide Receiver, Jordan Lasley
Offensive Tackle, Kolton Miller
Tight End, Austin Roberts
Quarterback, Josh Rosen
Rosen benefitted by a veteran team around him. That helps immensely to have better stats.
Here are the UCLA Seniors:
Defensive Back, Jaleel Wadood
Wide Receiver, Mossi Johnson
Running Back, Nate Starks
Linebacker, Kenny Young
Offensive Lineman, Najee Toran
Wide Receiver, Alex Van Dyke
Defensive Lineman, Jacob Tuioti-Mariner
Defensive Lineman, Matt Dickerson
Wide Receiver, Darren Andrews
Offensive Lineman, Scott Quessenberry
Offensive Lineman, Gyo Shojima
Offensive Lineman, Zach Bateman
Offensive Lineman, Poasi Moala
Offensive Lineman, Kenny Lacy
UCLA Underclassmen:
Wide Receiver, Jordan Lasley
Offensive Tackle, Kolton Miller
Tight End, Austin Roberts
Quarterback, Josh Rosen
Someone quotes stats and rankings, quantifiable things indicating performance of those around Rosen ... all you post is a list of upper classman as if all seniors are good like thats somehow able to discredit what was above.
You have the tenacity of a true sociopath when you get something in your head. Even when it's a piss poor argument.
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Rosen benefitted by a veteran team around him. That helps immensely to have better stats.
Here are the UCLA Seniors:
Defensive Back, Jaleel Wadood
Wide Receiver, Mossi Johnson
Running Back, Nate Starks
Linebacker, Kenny Young
Offensive Lineman, Najee Toran
Wide Receiver, Alex Van Dyke
Defensive Lineman, Jacob Tuioti-Mariner
Defensive Lineman, Matt Dickerson
Wide Receiver, Darren Andrews
Offensive Lineman, Scott Quessenberry
Offensive Lineman, Gyo Shojima
Offensive Lineman, Zach Bateman
Offensive Lineman, Poasi Moala
Offensive Lineman, Kenny Lacy
UCLA Underclassmen:
Wide Receiver, Jordan Lasley
Offensive Tackle, Kolton Miller
Tight End, Austin Roberts
Quarterback, Josh Rosen
Rosen benefitted by a veteran team around him. That helps immensely to have better stats.
Here are the UCLA Seniors:
Defensive Back, Jaleel Wadood
Wide Receiver, Mossi Johnson
Running Back, Nate Starks
Linebacker, Kenny Young
Offensive Lineman, Najee Toran
Wide Receiver, Alex Van Dyke
Defensive Lineman, Jacob Tuioti-Mariner
Defensive Lineman, Matt Dickerson
Wide Receiver, Darren Andrews
Offensive Lineman, Scott Quessenberry
Offensive Lineman, Gyo Shojima
Offensive Lineman, Zach Bateman
Offensive Lineman, Poasi Moala
Offensive Lineman, Kenny Lacy
UCLA Underclassmen:
Wide Receiver, Jordan Lasley
Offensive Tackle, Kolton Miller
Tight End, Austin Roberts
Quarterback, Josh Rosen
Cal- Another apples/oranges argument from you. Buckeyes had 19 seniors. how many were starters and/or stars? Almost zero. Listing the seniors on the team (I don't think any of the UCLA Sr's declared for the NFL draft) and a completely unrelated story about their LT makes no sense to anyone but you. Yes, Kolton Miller is good, so is Joe Thomas. By your logic, the Browns are a great team and the QB's should be awesome because they had one good player. Clearly that's not the case because one has nothing to do with the other. The QB can either play well or he can't.
I'm simply pointing out that despite not being flashy or playing on a great team, Rosen has looked good every season in the games he's been able to play. That's the sign of a good QB. He's got the best technical throwing motion and footwork of all QB's in this draft of the top 4-5 guys.
Clearly, the team had many major holes (several due to injury, but regardless).... that's why I posted stats. Not a listing of who's a senior and who's not. It makes no difference when they're not good or if they weren't a starter. There's really no counter argument to the stats I posted but I'll dumb it down for you:
1. ROSEN STATS GOOD
2. UCLA DEFENSE BAD
3. UCLA OL RB and WR BAD
4. ROSEN STATS STILL GOOD DESPITE 2 & 3
https://gojoebruin.com/2017/12/31/ucla-football-top-5-bruins-of-the-2017-season/
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Seniors can still be bad. It also means that the depth behind them very likely stinks.
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I heard something interesting about Baker Mayfield from several analysts this morning, and I believe it's worth mentioning here. Last year before the draft we constantly heard why Deshaun Watson wasn't good enough, that he was a product of a system, he didn't throw the ball hard enough, or his frame wasn't quite thick enough. Even though Watson was generally the best player on the field, performed on literally the biggest stage on earth, and was known to be near saintly as a human being, he was still the 3rd QB drafted behind Trubisky and Mahomes. This is nothing against either of those two guys, as they could develop into terrific players, but if you could do the draft over again, would they still go before Watson?
I mention all of this because the same kind of thing appears to be going on with Baker Mayfield. He's too small, he's got a chip on his shoulder, he's just another system guy, his deep ball isn't good enough, and he had that one arrest when he was drunk last year and he was dumb enough to run from police when all they wanted to do was speak to him. Isn't it possible that the same thing could be happening with Baker as it did with Watson, and instead of trying to find reasons NOT to take the best QB of 2017, the Browns should learn from last year and take the guy who performed the best all year? Baker Mayfield is absurdly accurate, he doesn't turn it over, he's got super quick feet, he WANTS to play for us, and I actually want a guy with a chip on his shoulder! We've been getting our azzes kicked for far too long, so perhaps we can use a little crotch-grabbing attitude on our bench.
Baker Mayfield has basically succeeded wherever he's been, and the kid was NEVER given anything. He wasn't chosen for anything. He earned the job at Texas Tech as a freaking walk-on, then he transferred to one of the biggest college football teams in the nation and wins the job AGAIN as a walk-on. He simply puts the ball where he wants it better than the other guys, and he's also a skilled runner with the ball. Oh yeah, he also knows how to slide (most of the time) and the only times he didn't was when he was a little too juiced up and it appeared he WANTED some contact. I love the spirit, but can't do that in the NFL or else you'll die. I think Baker Mayfield is Drew Brees with an attitude. He's so good at getting the ball out to the right guy, and he's not going to get out-worked by anybody. We're going to sign a veteran QB who will likely be expected to start the season. It's just another opportunity for Baker Mayfield to win the starting job when he wasn't supposed to. Regardless of where Baker is "supposed to go", draft him #1 because I can promise another team will fall in love with him and move up to snatch him. Let's learn from 2017 and stop over thinking why we SHOULDN'T draft the best player, and freaking take the guy who I think is going to be something special.
The link below quickly explains Baker's rather strange journey in college football. During his 4 years playing QB at 2 different schools, he amassed around 132 passing touchdowns, and 21 rushing scores in his career. That's dumb.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/9/16756056/baker-mayfield-walk-on-heisman
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I heard something interesting about Baker Mayfield from several analysts this morning, and I believe it's worth mentioning here. Last year before the draft we constantly heard why Deshaun Watson wasn't good enough, that he was a product of a system, he didn't throw the ball hard enough, or his frame wasn't quite thick enough. Even though Watson was generally the best player on the field, performed on literally the biggest stage on earth, and was known to be near saintly as a human being, he was still the 3rd QB drafted behind Trubisky and Mahomes. This is nothing against either of those two guys, as they could develop into terrific players, but if you could do the draft over again, would they still go before Watson?
I mention all of this because the same kind of thing appears to be going on with Baker Mayfield. He's too small, he's got a chip on his shoulder, he's just another system guy, his deep ball isn't good enough, and he had that one arrest when he was drunk last year and he was dumb enough to run from police when all they wanted to do was speak to him. Isn't it possible that the same thing could be happening with Baker as it did with Watson, and instead of trying to find reasons NOT to take the best QB of 2017, the Browns should learn from last year and take the guy who performed the best all year? Baker Mayfield is absurdly accurate, he doesn't turn it over, he's got super quick feet, he WANTS to play for us, and I actually want a guy with a chip on his shoulder! We've been getting our azzes kicked for far too long, so perhaps we can use a little crotch-grabbing attitude on our bench.
Baker Mayfield has basically succeeded wherever he's been, and the kid was NEVER given anything. He wasn't chosen for anything. He earned the job at Texas Tech as a freaking walk-on, then he transferred to one of the biggest college football teams in the nation and wins the job AGAIN as a walk-on. He simply puts the ball where he wants it better than the other guys, and he's also a skilled runner with the ball. Oh yeah, he also knows how to slide (most of the time) and the only times he didn't was when he was a little too juiced up and it appeared he WANTED some contact. I love the spirit, but can't do that in the NFL or else you'll die. I think Baker Mayfield is Drew Brees with an attitude. He's so good at getting the ball out to the right guy, and he's not going to get out-worked by anybody. We're going to sign a veteran QB who will likely be expected to start the season. It's just another opportunity for Baker Mayfield to win the starting job when he wasn't supposed to. Regardless of where Baker is "supposed to go", draft him #1 because I can promise another team will fall in love with him and move up to snatch him. Let's learn from 2017 and stop over thinking why we SHOULDN'T draft the best player, and freaking take the guy who I think is going to be something special.
The link below quickly explains Baker's rather strange journey in college football. During his 4 years playing QB at 2 different schools, he amassed around 132 passing touchdowns, and 21 rushing scores in his career. That's dumb.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/9/16756056/baker-mayfield-walk-on-heisman
I heard something interesting about Baker Mayfield from several analysts this morning, and I believe it's worth mentioning here. Last year before the draft we constantly heard why Deshaun Watson wasn't good enough, that he was a product of a system, he didn't throw the ball hard enough, or his frame wasn't quite thick enough. Even though Watson was generally the best player on the field, performed on literally the biggest stage on earth, and was known to be near saintly as a human being, he was still the 3rd QB drafted behind Trubisky and Mahomes. This is nothing against either of those two guys, as they could develop into terrific players, but if you could do the draft over again, would they still go before Watson?
I mention all of this because the same kind of thing appears to be going on with Baker Mayfield. He's too small, he's got a chip on his shoulder, he's just another system guy, his deep ball isn't good enough, and he had that one arrest when he was drunk last year and he was dumb enough to run from police when all they wanted to do was speak to him. Isn't it possible that the same thing could be happening with Baker as it did with Watson, and instead of trying to find reasons NOT to take the best QB of 2017, the Browns should learn from last year and take the guy who performed the best all year? Baker Mayfield is absurdly accurate, he doesn't turn it over, he's got super quick feet, he WANTS to play for us, and I actually want a guy with a chip on his shoulder! We've been getting our azzes kicked for far too long, so perhaps we can use a little crotch-grabbing attitude on our bench.
Baker Mayfield has basically succeeded wherever he's been, and the kid was NEVER given anything. He wasn't chosen for anything. He earned the job at Texas Tech as a freaking walk-on, then he transferred to one of the biggest college football teams in the nation and wins the job AGAIN as a walk-on. He simply puts the ball where he wants it better than the other guys, and he's also a skilled runner with the ball. Oh yeah, he also knows how to slide (most of the time) and the only times he didn't was when he was a little too juiced up and it appeared he WANTED some contact. I love the spirit, but can't do that in the NFL or else you'll die. I think Baker Mayfield is Drew Brees with an attitude. He's so good at getting the ball out to the right guy, and he's not going to get out-worked by anybody. We're going to sign a veteran QB who will likely be expected to start the season. It's just another opportunity for Baker Mayfield to win the starting job when he wasn't supposed to. Regardless of where Baker is "supposed to go", draft him #1 because I can promise another team will fall in love with him and move up to snatch him. Let's learn from 2017 and stop over thinking why we SHOULDN'T draft the best player, and freaking take the guy who I think is going to be something special.
The link below quickly explains Baker's rather strange journey in college football. During his 4 years playing QB at 2 different schools, he amassed around 132 passing touchdowns, and 21 rushing scores in his career. That's dumb.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/9/16756056/baker-mayfield-walk-on-heisman
Well said. You & I agree, but it's what Dorsey and staff think that really matters. We'll know in late April.
Mike
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Big 12 QB (name one that has come out of those wide open Big12 offenses who has amounted to anything) throwing to wide open receivers who also happens to be short.
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Big 12 QB (name one that has come out of those wide open Big12 offenses who has amounted to anything) throwing to wide open receivers who also happens to be short.
Big 12 QB (name one that has come out of those wide open Big12 offenses who has amounted to anything) throwing to wide open receivers who also happens to be short.
We actually researched this matter a bit ago. The best QB to come out of the Big 12 since its inception (in about 1994 or 1996) has been Andy Dalton. Best stats, most wins, most playoff appearances.
If Dalton had just won 1 or 2 of the playoff games he started...we all would likely have a better opinion of the guy. But, for now, he is "Just a Guy". Though it appears that that guy will no longer have AJ McCarron breathing down his neck.
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Big 12 QB (name one that has come out of those wide open Big12 offenses who has amounted to anything) throwing to wide open receivers who also happens to be short.
We actually researched this matter a bit ago. The best QB to come out of the Big 12 since its inception (in about 1994 or 1996) has been Andy Dalton. Best stats, most wins, most playoff appearances.
If Dalton had just won 1 or 2 of the playoff games he started...we all would likely have a better opinion of the guy. But, for now, he is "Just a Guy". Though it appears that that guy will no longer have AJ McCarron breathing down his neck.
We actually researched this matter a bit ago. The best QB to come out of the Big 12 since its inception (in about 1994 or 1996) has been Andy Dalton. Best stats, most wins, most playoff appearances.
If Dalton had just won 1 or 2 of the playoff games he started...we all would likely have a better opinion of the guy. But, for now, he is "Just a Guy". Though it appears that that guy will no longer have AJ McCarron breathing down his neck.
An Andy Dalton ceiling QB picked in the top 4 gives me heartburn.
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I heard something interesting about Baker Mayfield from several analysts this morning, and I believe it's worth mentioning here. Last year before the draft we constantly heard why Deshaun Watson wasn't good enough, that he was a product of a system, he didn't throw the ball hard enough, or his frame wasn't quite thick enough. Even though Watson was generally the best player on the field, performed on literally the biggest stage on earth, and was known to be near saintly as a human being, he was still the 3rd QB drafted behind Trubisky and Mahomes. This is nothing against either of those two guys, as they could develop into terrific players, but if you could do the draft over again, would they still go before Watson?
I mention all of this because the same kind of thing appears to be going on with Baker Mayfield. He's too small, he's got a chip on his shoulder, he's just another system guy, his deep ball isn't good enough, and he had that one arrest when he was drunk last year and he was dumb enough to run from police when all they wanted to do was speak to him. Isn't it possible that the same thing could be happening with Baker as it did with Watson, and instead of trying to find reasons NOT to take the best QB of 2017, the Browns should learn from last year and take the guy who performed the best all year? Baker Mayfield is absurdly accurate, he doesn't turn it over, he's got super quick feet, he WANTS to play for us, and I actually want a guy with a chip on his shoulder! We've been getting our azzes kicked for far too long, so perhaps we can use a little crotch-grabbing attitude on our bench.
Baker Mayfield has basically succeeded wherever he's been, and the kid was NEVER given anything. He wasn't chosen for anything. He earned the job at Texas Tech as a freaking walk-on, then he transferred to one of the biggest college football teams in the nation and wins the job AGAIN as a walk-on. He simply puts the ball where he wants it better than the other guys, and he's also a skilled runner with the ball. Oh yeah, he also knows how to slide (most of the time) and the only times he didn't was when he was a little too juiced up and it appeared he WANTED some contact. I love the spirit, but can't do that in the NFL or else you'll die. I think Baker Mayfield is Drew Brees with an attitude. He's so good at getting the ball out to the right guy, and he's not going to get out-worked by anybody. We're going to sign a veteran QB who will likely be expected to start the season. It's just another opportunity for Baker Mayfield to win the starting job when he wasn't supposed to. Regardless of where Baker is "supposed to go", draft him #1 because I can promise another team will fall in love with him and move up to snatch him. Let's learn from 2017 and stop over thinking why we SHOULDN'T draft the best player, and freaking take the guy who I think is going to be something special.
The link below quickly explains Baker's rather strange journey in college football. During his 4 years playing QB at 2 different schools, he amassed around 132 passing touchdowns, and 21 rushing scores in his career. That's dumb.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/9/16756056/baker-mayfield-walk-on-heisman
I heard something interesting about Baker Mayfield from several analysts this morning, and I believe it's worth mentioning here. Last year before the draft we constantly heard why Deshaun Watson wasn't good enough, that he was a product of a system, he didn't throw the ball hard enough, or his frame wasn't quite thick enough. Even though Watson was generally the best player on the field, performed on literally the biggest stage on earth, and was known to be near saintly as a human being, he was still the 3rd QB drafted behind Trubisky and Mahomes. This is nothing against either of those two guys, as they could develop into terrific players, but if you could do the draft over again, would they still go before Watson?
I mention all of this because the same kind of thing appears to be going on with Baker Mayfield. He's too small, he's got a chip on his shoulder, he's just another system guy, his deep ball isn't good enough, and he had that one arrest when he was drunk last year and he was dumb enough to run from police when all they wanted to do was speak to him. Isn't it possible that the same thing could be happening with Baker as it did with Watson, and instead of trying to find reasons NOT to take the best QB of 2017, the Browns should learn from last year and take the guy who performed the best all year? Baker Mayfield is absurdly accurate, he doesn't turn it over, he's got super quick feet, he WANTS to play for us, and I actually want a guy with a chip on his shoulder! We've been getting our azzes kicked for far too long, so perhaps we can use a little crotch-grabbing attitude on our bench.
Baker Mayfield has basically succeeded wherever he's been, and the kid was NEVER given anything. He wasn't chosen for anything. He earned the job at Texas Tech as a freaking walk-on, then he transferred to one of the biggest college football teams in the nation and wins the job AGAIN as a walk-on. He simply puts the ball where he wants it better than the other guys, and he's also a skilled runner with the ball. Oh yeah, he also knows how to slide (most of the time) and the only times he didn't was when he was a little too juiced up and it appeared he WANTED some contact. I love the spirit, but can't do that in the NFL or else you'll die. I think Baker Mayfield is Drew Brees with an attitude. He's so good at getting the ball out to the right guy, and he's not going to get out-worked by anybody. We're going to sign a veteran QB who will likely be expected to start the season. It's just another opportunity for Baker Mayfield to win the starting job when he wasn't supposed to. Regardless of where Baker is "supposed to go", draft him #1 because I can promise another team will fall in love with him and move up to snatch him. Let's learn from 2017 and stop over thinking why we SHOULDN'T draft the best player, and freaking take the guy who I think is going to be something special.
The link below quickly explains Baker's rather strange journey in college football. During his 4 years playing QB at 2 different schools, he amassed around 132 passing touchdowns, and 21 rushing scores in his career. That's dumb.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/9/16756056/baker-mayfield-walk-on-heisman
Watson had all the intangibles, mayfield doesn't. Watson is bigger, faster, more athletic, and his character is top notch. Mayfield is short, has character issues on and off the field, and played in an all offense conference where almost nobody has success in the NFL.
I like Mayfield too, I love his fire, the walk on winning a Heisman, the competitiveness, the completion % and all that, but not a good comparison to Watson.
We'll see how it plays out once our FO interviews their top 3
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My faves (Darnold and Mayfield) have concerns as well Tom - but I've seen both guys win consistently (sometimes requiring them to overcome adversity/mistakes).
Without a doubt, all the top QBs have concerns. I'm starting to slowly understand what mjp has been harping on concerning this QB class.
That being said, how do you think Darnold or Mayfield would have done with UCLA? Or what would Rosen had done with USC or Oklahoma?
Because the talent level at Oklahoma and USC was light years ahead of UCLA. I'm pretty sure UCLA's defense is still giving up points...
Without a doubt, all the top QBs have concerns. I'm starting to slowly understand what mjp has been harping on concerning this QB class.
That being said, how do you think Darnold or Mayfield would have done with UCLA? Or what would Rosen had done with USC or Oklahoma?
Because the talent level at Oklahoma and USC was light years ahead of UCLA. I'm pretty sure UCLA's defense is still giving up points...
Yeah, I see what you mean. I really have questions about every guy; but tis the season to over-analyze. We all did this last year and the year before. I think there will be some good/great QBs in this draft; and I think there will be some that get drafted way up where they don't belong. And when there's guys drafted way up where they don't belong (ie; Weeden) - there's also guys that are great picks after round 1 (ie: Russell Wilson). I hope we finally land a keeper.
Rivals.com and Scout.com rated Rosen as a 5 star recruit and ranked him as the best QB in his class. Rivals also ranked him as the best overall recruit. Being #1 gave him choices. That being the case, my guess is he COULD have played QB at Oklahoma or USC or Stanford or anywhere he wanted to. He chose UCLA. Dan Fouts NEVER had a defense and his greatness always got SD into the playoffs after consistently outscoring opponents in spite of the lack of defense. No excuses necessary... This doesn't necessarily mean Rosen sucks. I'm just looking at a 1-31 team being up against a whole lot more than Rosen was up against at UCLA. What's going to make Cleveland easier for him?
In comparison, Darnold was only a 4 star recruit. That still gave Darnold way more choices than Baker Mayfield had. Mayfield had to walk-on at Texas Tech before he had to walk on to Oklahoma; so the story gets impressive. This is especially so when we understand Oklahoma still had the QB (Trevor Knight) that went 32 of 44 passing for 348 yards and 4 TDs in a 45-31victory over Alabama in the 2014 Sugar Bowl. I listened to Stoops talk about it and the magnitude of him coming into a program like that and earning the starting job. Nothing was given to the kid and I think that's what I find so impressive about him. And it isn't like Oklahoma always played great defense the last 2 years.
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Rosen benefitted by a veteran team around him. That helps immensely to have better stats.
Here are the UCLA Seniors:
Defensive Back, Jaleel Wadood
Wide Receiver, Mossi Johnson
Running Back, Nate Starks
Linebacker, Kenny Young
Offensive Lineman, Najee Toran
Wide Receiver, Alex Van Dyke
Defensive Lineman, Jacob Tuioti-Mariner
Defensive Lineman, Matt Dickerson
Wide Receiver, Darren Andrews
Offensive Lineman, Scott Quessenberry
Offensive Lineman, Gyo Shojima
Offensive Lineman, Zach Bateman
Offensive Lineman, Poasi Moala
Offensive Lineman, Kenny Lacy
UCLA Underclassmen:
Wide Receiver, Jordan Lasley
Offensive Tackle, Kolton Miller
Tight End, Austin Roberts
Quarterback, Josh Rosen
Someone quotes stats and rankings, quantifiable things indicating performance of those around Rosen ... all you post is a list of upper classman as if all seniors are good like thats somehow able to discredit what was above.
You have the tenacity of a true sociopath when you get something in your head. Even when it's a piss poor argument.
Someone quotes stats and rankings, quantifiable things indicating performance of those around Rosen ... all you post is a list of upper classman as if all seniors are good like thats somehow able to discredit what was above.
You have the tenacity of a true sociopath when you get something in your head. Even when it's a piss poor argument.
frickin moron. The point was, that a senior class helps him have good stats. Seniors have the advantage of experience and teamwork. They don't have to be all stars.
His offense helps him have good states. You're just wrong, stop worshipping rosenbum. Your stats are not going to change anyones minds, may as well shove it, tiamsies. Your arrogance is superseded only by your belligerence. Other people get to have their own opinion, too. Hey, guess what, numbnuts - you haven't changed your mind and agreed with anybody else either. "der"
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Someone quotes stats and rankings, quantifiable things indicating performance of those around Rosen ... all you post is a list of upper classman as if all seniors are good like thats somehow able to discredit what was above.
You have the tenacity of a true sociopath when you get something in your head. Even when it's a piss poor argument.
frickin moron. The point was, that a senior class helps him have good stats. Seniors have the advantage of experience and teamwork. They don't have to be all stars.
His offense helps him have good states. You're just wrong, stop worshipping rosenbum. Your stats are not going to change anyones minds, may as well shove it, tiamsies. Your arrogance is superseded only by your belligerence. Other people get to have their own opinion, too. Hey, guess what, numbnuts - you haven't changed your mind and agreed with anybody else either. "der"
frickin moron. The point was, that a senior class helps him have good stats. Seniors have the advantage of experience and teamwork. They don't have to be all stars.
His offense helps him have good states. You're just wrong, stop worshipping rosenbum. Your stats are not going to change anyones minds, may as well shove it, tiamsies. Your arrogance is superseded only by your belligerence. Other people get to have their own opinion, too. Hey, guess what, numbnuts - you haven't changed your mind and agreed with anybody else either. "der"
I didn't post stats... and that senior class only helped get UCLA 4 wins. People that usually don't even agree with me see how incredibly flimsy... actually how outright stupid the point your trying to make is.
You must not have checked them for yourself because half of those seniors (more likely all of them) will never play a down in the NFL.
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