2018 QB Class
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Really.
Brady got better. Brees got better. I could go on all night with examples to the contrary. Its called development.
Yeah..Brady and Brees were still at 60% completion percentage in college or above. Allen is completing 55% in the shitty mountain west conference.
But sure..lets draft Kizer part 2 in round 1 first overall because he's got a big arm and is a good athlete. Wait..that sounds a lot like Kizer. He's a good athlete and has a great arm but he is inaccurate as well.
Yeah..Brady and Brees were still at 60% completion percentage in college or above. Allen is completing 55% in the shitty mountain west conference.
But sure..lets draft Kizer part 2 in round 1 first overall because he's got a big arm and is a good athlete. Wait..that sounds a lot like Kizer. He's a good athlete and has a great arm but he is inaccurate as well.
Lamar Jackson is a better version of Kizer.
Compare Allen to Kizer all you want but it isn't true.
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Notice I used your logic to compare Kizer to Wentz?
I noticed that you were puzzled of my numbers. Take half the money out of your piggy bank and give it to me. I have 50% and you have 50%. See how that works??
Hilarious, you are arguing over 6 more completions per 100 attempts. Thats 24 more completions @ 400 attempts divide by 16 games = 1.5 additional completions per game to reach 62%. Brady completes so many short 5 yard passes its impossible for him to not be in the 66% range which is 2 completions out 3 attempts and the winning formula. Brady, Rogers, Ryan, Brees even Alex Smith are all 66% passers. Allen needs 10 more completions per 100 to reach the 66% plateau. 2.5 completions per 16 games with better coaching, better OL, better WRs, better RBs.
Allen needs coaching up. Brady needed coaching up. Its foolish to believe that these QBs come from winning college programs and start winning in the NFL the same way. Brady is constantly working on his throwing motion and footwork.
I noticed that you were puzzled of my numbers. Take half the money out of your piggy bank and give it to me. I have 50% and you have 50%. See how that works??
Hilarious, you are arguing over 6 more completions per 100 attempts. Thats 24 more completions @ 400 attempts divide by 16 games = 1.5 additional completions per game to reach 62%. Brady completes so many short 5 yard passes its impossible for him to not be in the 66% range which is 2 completions out 3 attempts and the winning formula. Brady, Rogers, Ryan, Brees even Alex Smith are all 66% passers. Allen needs 10 more completions per 100 to reach the 66% plateau. 2.5 completions per 16 games with better coaching, better OL, better WRs, better RBs.
Allen needs coaching up. Brady needed coaching up. Its foolish to believe that these QBs come from winning college programs and start winning in the NFL the same way. Brady is constantly working on his throwing motion and footwork.
It is ridiculous that we have to debate taking a QB at #1 or #4 overall who even his backers say is a multi-year project.
Let someone else use their high first rounder on such a project. Someone on here (cal?) made the point that Denver wants him? Let them have him.
Their "coaching up" of Tebow and Paxton Lynch should be done any moment now.
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If only... well he didn't. Go watch an entire game of his Boo, and get back to me... Lousy ERA? More like a flame throwing pitcher who can't find the strike zone on a regular basis.
We've been through all the outliers who significantly improved their completion % in the pros. The odds are against Allen doing so. Our wildly inconsistent Deshone Kizer actually had a better completion percentage than Allen in college- and now some guys want to draft his clone? No thanks.
No, Allen did not get better behind that colander of an offensive line.
You guys act like the other 10 guys around the QB are of no factor whatsoever. Rosen has bust written all over him.
Rosen has bust written all over him.
Unless he ends up being drafted by a dome team, like Indy. The guy needs some coddling.
There's reports Indy is going to hire McDaniels as HC. Maybe they want Rosen so bad we can dupe them in a draft deal trade and still get Allen, Barkley, Fitzpatrick, or Chubb.
Karlis Missed -
Always find Pluto reads to be among the best...
This point jumped out at me. I've read so much here and other places about how inferior the talent around Allen was... how his completion percentage suffered due to drops, etc. Turns out not-so-much...
" 10. Profootballfocus reported Allen had only 12 passes dropped at Wyoming last season. By contrast, UCLA's Josh Rosen had 34 passes dropped, Mayfield had 28 and Darnold had 18. So Allen's low completion percentage was not due to guys dropping balls."
Pluto is great.. I miss Hal Lebovits.. He was a thousand times better.....
Pluto is great.. I miss Hal Lebovits.. He was a thousand times better.....
Hal LowBlow as Pete Franklin used to call him.
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How low blow onHow low blow on
Habla Esp on HOLIO?
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Really.
Brady got better. Brees got better. I could go on all night with examples to the contrary. Its called development.
Compare Kesslers better numbers than Darnold at USC & get back with us. meanwhile the buckeyes put Darnold over the Kessler mark of plus 30 sacks per season. USC QB's fumbling balls must cum with Trojan protection
Compare Kesslers better numbers than Darnold at USC & get back with us. meanwhile the buckeyes put Darnold over the Kessler mark of plus 30 sacks per season. USC QB's fumbling balls must cum with Trojan protection
USC is always good. Usually top ten, minimum, top 20.they always have good WR and usually good RB. Makes it much easier to put big numbers up and win lots of games when you have guys like woods and juju that catch anything thrown their way.
Their QB's don't set the NFL on fire though. Most are backups. Palmer being the one exception.
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Rosen has bust written all over him.
Unless he ends up being drafted by a dome team, like Indy. The guy needs some coddling.
There's reports Indy is going to hire McDaniels as HC. Maybe they want Rosen so bad we can dupe them in a draft deal trade and still get Allen, Barkley, Fitzpatrick, or Chubb.
Unless he ends up being drafted by a dome team, like Indy. The guy needs some coddling.
Just curious Bob, but why do you feel Rosen needs to play in a dome?
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Always find Pluto reads to be among the best...
This point jumped out at me. I've read so much here and other places about how inferior the talent around Allen was... how his completion percentage suffered due to drops, etc. Turns out not-so-much...
" 10. Profootballfocus reported Allen had only 12 passes dropped at Wyoming last season. By contrast, UCLA's Josh Rosen had 34 passes dropped, Mayfield had 28 and Darnold had 18. So Allen's low completion percentage was not due to guys dropping balls."
" 10. Profootballfocus reported Allen had only 12 passes dropped at Wyoming last season. By contrast, UCLA's Josh Rosen had 34 passes dropped, Mayfield had 28 and Darnold had 18. So Allen's low completion percentage was not due to guys dropping balls."
How many times do we have to go over this?
Allen attempted 270 @ 56% completions
Rosen attempted 452 @ 62% completions.
Allen needs to complete 6 more passes per 100 to be equal with Rosen. Ridiculous.
Allens O line sucked. He was under constant pressure. You guys act like Allen is a pitcher up on the mound with a lousy era.
Until you understand it?
First... love you picking 270, his 2017 attempt total when he threw 373 times in 2016 with the same completion percentage... 56%. #Samplesizematters...
Only 6 per 100... lol... Makes it sound so easy doesn't it? Just magically turn 16 incompletions in to completions. Doesn't work that way...
How easy does a string of 40 for 40 sound? That is what Allen would have to add to 152 completions in 270 attempts to come out on the other side with a 62% completion rate.
It's called Algebra...
But if you want to wish away incompletions then let's start with all the drops... for every QB.
That's adds 4 points plus change to Allen's completion percentage.
How much would it add to Rosen's?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Always find Pluto reads to be among the best...
This point jumped out at me. I've read so much here and other places about how inferior the talent around Allen was... how his completion percentage suffered due to drops, etc. Turns out not-so-much...
" 10. Profootballfocus reported Allen had only 12 passes dropped at Wyoming last season. By contrast, UCLA's Josh Rosen had 34 passes dropped, Mayfield had 28 and Darnold had 18. So Allen's low completion percentage was not due to guys dropping balls."
Pluto is great.. I miss Hal Lebovits.. He was a thousand times better.....
Pluto is great.. I miss Hal Lebovits.. He was a thousand times better.....
Damn... had not thought of Hal in forever. Yes... used to love his reads.
Then there was Dan "The Sock" Coughlin... the 60's/70's version of Tony Grossi.
Just curious Bob, but why do you feel Rosen needs to play in a dome?
Imma guess "hot tub"... Let me know if I win.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Quinn = Rosen.
Brady Quinn a 62% rate.
Johnny Football had a 70% completion rate.
No one ever said that completion percentage guaranteed success. But an inaccurate college QB is only going to get more inaccurate in the NFL.
No one ever said that completion percentage guaranteed success. But an inaccurate college QB is only going to get more inaccurate in the NFL.
Not true Mathew Stafford was a big arm inaccurate qb coming out of college. Similar to Allen. Stafford had accuracy problems his first 6 years he didn't complete 60%. The last 3 years he's been around 66% a year. A QB can be coached to be more accurate. They're very similar players except Allen is more mobile and Staffords arm is a little stronger.
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How many times do we have to go over this?
Allen attempted 270 @ 56% completions
Rosen attempted 452 @ 62% completions.
Allen needs to complete 6 more passes per 100 to be equal with Rosen. Ridiculous.
Allens O line sucked. He was under constant pressure. You guys act like Allen is a pitcher up on the mound with a lousy era.
If only... well he didn't. Go watch an entire game of his Boo, and get back to me... Lousy ERA? More like a flame throwing pitcher who can't find the strike zone on a regular basis.
We've been through all the outliers who significantly improved their completion % in the pros. The odds are against Allen doing so. Our wildly inconsistent Deshone Kizer actually had a better completion percentage than Allen in college- and now some guys want to draft his clone? No thanks.
If only... well he didn't. Go watch an entire game of his Boo, and get back to me... Lousy ERA? More like a flame throwing pitcher who can't find the strike zone on a regular basis.
We've been through all the outliers who significantly improved their completion % in the pros. The odds are against Allen doing so. Our wildly inconsistent Deshone Kizer actually had a better completion percentage than Allen in college- and now some guys want to draft his clone? No thanks.
Kizer had one of the best OL in college history. He had a lot more talent around him. His college coach even said he wasn't NFL ready. The schemes are completely different also. Do some research on Kelly's scheme vs Brett Vigens. Kelly runs more of a West Coast Offense. Shorter passes with less risk. Wyoming also runs a variant of the WCO, but they stretch the field Air Coryell style. They also rolled Allen out a lot because the OL was bad.
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Just curious Bob, but why do you feel Rosen needs to play in a dome?
The kid shoots his mouth off too much. He longs for the NY Giants...no way he survives NYC or the NFC East weather.
Indy sits 3rd, with a "hot candidate" coach in McDaniels. He'll supposedly get a great offensive system and play indoors 8 games a season.
He reminds me of John Elway, Eli Manning. Trying to dictate his future. He's fragile, put him in a dome, and see if he lives up to the lofty expectations. He doesn't want Cleveland, so heck with him.
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Just curious Bob, but why do you feel Rosen needs to play in a dome?
The kid shoots his mouth off too much. He longs for the NY Giants...no way he survives NYC or the NFC East weather.
Indy sits 3rd, with a "hot candidate" coach in McDaniels. He'll supposedly get a great offensive system and play indoors 8 games a season.
He reminds me of John Elway, Eli Manning. Trying to dictate his future. He's fragile, put him in a dome, and see if he lives up to the lofty expectations. He doesn't want Cleveland, so heck with him.
The kid shoots his mouth off too much. He longs for the NY Giants...no way he survives NYC or the NFC East weather.
Indy sits 3rd, with a "hot candidate" coach in McDaniels. He'll supposedly get a great offensive system and play indoors 8 games a season.
He reminds me of John Elway, Eli Manning. Trying to dictate his future. He's fragile, put him in a dome, and see if he lives up to the lofty expectations. He doesn't want Cleveland, so heck with him.
So basically you have no reason... got it.
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The kid shoots his mouth off too much. He longs for the NY Giants...no way he survives NYC or the NFC East weather.
Indy sits 3rd, with a "hot candidate" coach in McDaniels. He'll supposedly get a great offensive system and play indoors 8 games a season.
He reminds me of John Elway, Eli Manning. Trying to dictate his future. He's fragile, put him in a dome, and see if he lives up to the lofty expectations. He doesn't want Cleveland, so heck with him.
So basically you have no reason... got it.
So basically you have no reason... got it.
Wow. Look, I know we're all a bit fiesty waiting for our team to turn around, but it's just my opinion he will not last in a northern/northeast climate. I said he's fragile. A dome may help the kid, plain and simple.
I take it you want him in Cleveland. I wouldn't take somebody who has reservations about the Browns. A leader looks to lead, establish greatness and embrace a challenge.
This is why I shy away from our forum's draft threads. Should have never commented.
Karlis Missed -
So basically you have no reason... got it.
Wow. Look, I know we're all a bit fiesty waiting for our team to turn around, but it's just my opinion he will not last in a northern/northeast climate. I said he's fragile. A dome may help the kid, plain and simple.
I take it you want him in Cleveland. I wouldn't take somebody who has reservations about the Browns. A leader looks to lead, establish greatness and embrace a challenge.
This is why I shy away from our forum's draft threads. Should have never commented.
Wow. Look, I know we're all a bit fiesty waiting for our team to turn around, but it's just my opinion he will not last in a northern/northeast climate. I said he's fragile. A dome may help the kid, plain and simple.
I take it you want him in Cleveland. I wouldn't take somebody who has reservations about the Browns. A leader looks to lead, establish greatness and embrace a challenge.
This is why I shy away from our forum's draft threads. Should have never commented.
I was kind of expecting a more concrete reason why you thought he needed to play in a dome, such as you think he has a mediocre arm, or that he has small hands (which would hinder a QB in poor weather, and to be able to get enough zip on the ball to throw spirals in wet or windy weather). Instead, your response was a bit vague... just seemed like "I don't like him so he must be a pussy who can't play in bad weather" type of answer.
The list of QBs who come from warm weather areas who thrived in the NFL in cold weather cities is an impressively long one. I also don't think he's the most "sturdy" of QBs, but I don't think weather has anything to do with it. His injury history/body build is the reason I still haven't gone all-in on him, even if I do think he's the best QB in this class, especially from Day 1.
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So basically you have no reason... got it.
Wow. Look, I know we're all a bit fiesty waiting for our team to turn around, but it's just my opinion he will not last in a northern/northeast climate. I said he's fragile. A dome may help the kid, plain and simple.
I take it you want him in Cleveland. I wouldn't take somebody who has reservations about the Browns. A leader looks to lead, establish greatness and embrace a challenge.
This is why I shy away from our forum's draft threads. Should have never commented.
Wow. Look, I know we're all a bit fiesty waiting for our team to turn around, but it's just my opinion he will not last in a northern/northeast climate. I said he's fragile. A dome may help the kid, plain and simple.
I take it you want him in Cleveland. I wouldn't take somebody who has reservations about the Browns. A leader looks to lead, establish greatness and embrace a challenge.
This is why I shy away from our forum's draft threads. Should have never commented.
Hang in there, Bob. That is the old "Lord of the Flies" syndrome that peaks around this forum once in a while. If certain hostile wannabe alpha males can intimidate and squelch differing opinions, they relish the chance. The rest of us just love talking football.
I have some dumb opinions, if I can't back em up, I try to change em. I'm happy with any qb in the draft the Browns take - and they won't take Rosen the reason you mentioned being a primary reason. Rudolph, Mayfield, Allen, Tour's guy Benkirt, sp?, Mike White, etc etc, have the kind of tough mental makeup to play in the snow. A fighter, a guy his teammates rally around.
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Wow. Look, I know we're all a bit fiesty waiting for our team to turn around, but it's just my opinion he will not last in a northern/northeast climate. I said he's fragile. A dome may help the kid, plain and simple.
I take it you want him in Cleveland. I wouldn't take somebody who has reservations about the Browns. A leader looks to lead, establish greatness and embrace a challenge.
This is why I shy away from our forum's draft threads. Should have never commented.
Hang in there, Bob. That is the old "Lord of the Flies" syndrome that peaks around this forum once in a while. If certain hostile wannabe alpha males can intimidate and squelch differing opinions, they relish the chance. The rest of us just love talking football.
I have some dumb opinions, if I can't back em up, I try to change em. I'm happy with any qb in the draft the Browns take - and they won't take Rosen the reason you mentioned being a primary reason. Rudolph, Mayfield, Allen, Tour's guy Benkirt, sp?, Mike White, etc etc, have the kind of tough mental makeup to play in the snow. A fighter, a guy his teammates rally around.
Hang in there, Bob. That is the old "Lord of the Flies" syndrome that peaks around this forum once in a while. If certain hostile wannabe alpha males can intimidate and squelch differing opinions, they relish the chance. The rest of us just love talking football.
Settle down, Princess.
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Hang in there, Bob. That is the old "Lord of the Flies" syndrome that peaks around this forum once in a while. If certain hostile wannabe alpha males can intimidate and squelch differing opinions, they relish the chance. The rest of us just love talking football.
Settle down, Princess.
Settle down, Princess.
yes you want attention more than some others. have a nice day, and if you can't back your opinions up, then perhaps you should
stop and think about that.
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Wow. Look, I know we're all a bit fiesty waiting for our team to turn around, but it's just my opinion he will not last in a northern/northeast climate. I said he's fragile. A dome may help the kid, plain and simple.
I take it you want him in Cleveland. I wouldn't take somebody who has reservations about the Browns. A leader looks to lead, establish greatness and embrace a challenge.
This is why I shy away from our forum's draft threads. Should have never commented.
I was kind of expecting a more concrete reason why you thought he needed to play in a dome, such as you think he has a mediocre arm, or that he has small hands (which would hinder a QB in poor weather, and to be able to get enough zip on the ball to throw spirals in wet or windy weather). Instead, your response was a bit vague... just seemed like "I don't like him so he must be a pussy who can't play in bad weather" type of answer.
The list of QBs who come from warm weather areas who thrived in the NFL in cold weather cities is an impressively long one. I also don't think he's the most "sturdy" of QBs, but I don't think weather has anything to do with it. His injury history/body build is the reason I still haven't gone all-in on him, even if I do think he's the best QB in this class, especially from Day 1.
The list of QBs who come from warm weather areas who thrived in the NFL in cold weather cities is an impressively long one. I also don't think he's the most "sturdy" of QBs, but I don't think weather has anything to do with it. His injury history/body build is the reason I still haven't gone all-in on him, even if I do think he's the best QB in this class, especially from Day 1.
All you need to succeed as a QB in cold weather.
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" 10. Profootballfocus reported Allen had only 12 passes dropped at Wyoming last season. By contrast, UCLA's Josh Rosen had 34 passes dropped, Mayfield had 28 and Darnold had 18. So Allen's low completion percentage was not due to guys dropping balls."
How many times do we have to go over this?
Allen attempted 270 @ 56% completions
Rosen attempted 452 @ 62% completions.
Allen needs to complete 6 more passes per 100 to be equal with Rosen. Ridiculous.
Allens O line sucked. He was under constant pressure. You guys act like Allen is a pitcher up on the mound with a lousy era.
Until you understand it?
First... love you picking 270, his 2017 attempt total when he threw 373 times in 2016 with the same completion percentage... 56%. #Samplesizematters...
Only 6 per 100... lol... Makes it sound so easy doesn't it? Just magically turn 16 incompletions in to completions. Doesn't work that way...
How easy does a string of 40 for 40 sound? That is what Allen would have to add to 152 completions in 270 attempts to come out on the other side with a 62% completion rate.
It's called Algebra...
But if you want to wish away incompletions then let's start with all the drops... for every QB.
That's adds 4 points plus change to Allen's completion percentage.
How much would it add to Rosen's?
Until you understand it?
First... love you picking 270, his 2017 attempt total when he threw 373 times in 2016 with the same completion percentage... 56%. #Samplesizematters...
Only 6 per 100... lol... Makes it sound so easy doesn't it? Just magically turn 16 incompletions in to completions. Doesn't work that way...
How easy does a string of 40 for 40 sound? That is what Allen would have to add to 152 completions in 270 attempts to come out on the other side with a 62% completion rate.
It's called Algebra...
But if you want to wish away incompletions then let's start with all the drops... for every QB.
That's adds 4 points plus change to Allen's completion percentage.
How much would it add to Rosen's?
You love splitting peas.
Some team will be wise and draft Allen and develop him into a stud. Probably the Steelers.
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