No Controversy at all on Ertz' TD Reception
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We're not that far apart here especially if we stay in tact with the title of this thread. You said you agreed 100% it was a catch because you clearly watched the replay and counted steps once possession was established. We both trusted our eyes in a world where a picture is worth a 1000 words (unless they're Collinsworth's). The original intention of replay is to get calls like this right even though that doesn't always happen. In this case it did. For example, what did the referee explain when the call on the field was correct? He explained what you and I saw and described Ertz as a runner (meaning possession established with steps that followed). Even though I agree with you that the rules of a catch can be controversial - nothing about Ertz' catch was controversial once the replay aired.
Now, the other TD reception by Philly where possession and getting both feet in after it can be debated. I can see some controversy; but who gets more favoritism by the officials than NE when it comes to penalties called and overlooked? Hard to feel sorry for them when they only had a volume of 3 penalties against them in the AFC Championship and SB combined. Watch how how they get away with grabbing and pinning 1 arm of a WR that their opponent gets flagged for.
I'm with you that I'd like them to straighten out the rules of a catch.
Yeah, we're on the same page with everything you're saying. The thing is though as I was mentioning there was "controversy" in that it's friggin impossible to decide what is a catch and what isn't. To me, that TD was 100% a td catch and didn't even need a review. The fact that it took as long as it did to be "confirmed" does signify there was a serious question of it remaining a TD. It should be a lot more cut and dry, and I'm hopeful they will look into it this offseason.
Yeah, we're on the same page with everything you're saying. The thing is though as I was mentioning there was "controversy" in that it's friggin impossible to decide what is a catch and what isn't. To me, that TD was 100% a td catch and didn't even need a review. The fact that it took as long as it did to be "confirmed" does signify there was a serious question of it remaining a TD. It should be a lot more cut and dry, and I'm hopeful they will look into it this offseason.
I hear ya. The Commissioner mentioned over the weekend they will be trying to make it more cut and dry in the very near future. The last 2-3 years have given them more than enough examples to finally prioritize this moving forward.
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Ertz had made 2 steps after gaining control vs Jesse James just turn. Right Call
Clement didn't maintain control throughout the catch. Wrong Call
3 very bad no calls to me were 1. Hit on Cooks was certainly helmet to helmet, the Pass Interference on Jeffrey on 2 pt conversion, and the Pass Interference on the Hail Mary. Gronk may have been hit in the endzone, but that is a no call, but another receiver was BLASTED down field, that should have been the easiest call of the night.
Bottom line is the Eagles outplayed the Patriots. Foles was GREAT
Ertz had made 2 steps after gaining control vs Jesse James just turn. Right Call
Clement didn't maintain control throughout the catch. Wrong Call
3 very bad no calls to me were 1. Hit on Cooks was certainly helmet to helmet, the Pass Interference on Jeffrey on 2 pt conversion, and the Pass Interference on the Hail Mary. Gronk may have been hit in the endzone, but that is a no call, but another receiver was BLASTED down field, that should have been the easiest call of the night.
Bottom line is the Eagles outplayed the Patriots. Foles was GREAT
The 3rd one is unbelievable. You see it on the highlights Gronk running and behind him, BAAAAAAMB! A guy disappearing from the play. I still believe it would be a non-factor (less than 3 seconds from end of regulation, in the 30yd line, probably?) But that was astonishing.
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Cris Collinsworth ....oh wait if we just slow it down just a bit more oh look at that....can you guys slow it down a bit more and show a angle that we don't have.
Colliinsworth SUCKS and has always SUCKED
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Ertz had made 2 steps after gaining control vs Jesse James just turn. Right Call
Clement didn't maintain control throughout the catch. Wrong Call
3 very bad no calls to me were 1. Hit on Cooks was certainly helmet to helmet, the Pass Interference on Jeffrey on 2 pt conversion, and the Pass Interference on the Hail Mary. Gronk may have been hit in the endzone, but that is a no call, but another receiver was BLASTED down field, that should have been the easiest call of the night.
Bottom line is the Eagles outplayed the Patriots. Foles was GREAT
The 3rd one is unbelievable. You see it on the highlights Gronk running and behind him, BAAAAAAMB! A guy disappearing from the play. I still believe it would be a non-factor (less than 3 seconds from end of regulation, in the 30yd line, probably?) But that was astonishing.
The 3rd one is unbelievable. You see it on the highlights Gronk running and behind him, BAAAAAAMB! A guy disappearing from the play. I still believe it would be a non-factor (less than 3 seconds from end of regulation, in the 30yd line, probably?) But that was astonishing.
It is a BIG factor. Whether the outcome changes, who knows, probability is low, but NE would have had another play. But even with the play, he was running down field with Gronk and the way the ball was tipped up in air, he could have been trailing just for that purpose.
PHI COULD have been called for roughing passer on play as well. Not a call I would make or advocate, but with protection of QBs it's possible.
It's funny to me how people are so hating of NE that anytime they win, they cheated or refs gave them the game, but when calls go against them, "Well they weren't called for this or that." Besides the 2 pt play with PI, the calls or no calls effected the score against NE not PHI. I didn't really care who won, but the 1st controversy over catch was NOT a catch by the rules, the 2nd one WAS a catch. And then the Hail Mary, that did hurt them.
And before someone says it, those plays did NOT cost them the game. Eagles outplayed them, but they did happen. Point being, in this world where Patriots (And refs) "cheat" then Eagles did last night.
Can't have it both ways
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I generally like Collinsworth - especially when he does Steelers games (Steelers fans HATE him like Arabs hate the Jews) - but it felt like he had a narrative he needed to deliver to the NFL and goddamn he was going to deliver it, regardless of how obvious it was a catch.
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Normally I like the commentary of Cris Collinsworth; but my God Cris can you at least look at the reply your network was showing multiple times instead of spending all your time persuading yourself it was Jesse James part II? Ertz got 3 steps down after the grab unless my little beer buzz added 1; but it looked like the first step was simultaneous with the grab.
The other TD reception invited some questioning; BUT seeing NE only flagged 2-3 times overall in their last 2 games more than evened that up overall. They get away with a lot of arm grabbing on receivers their opponents haven't (even on the 1 out of bounds in the AFC Championship on a Pro Bowl Corner). While 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'll take a left and say it's a bout time NE's opponent got the break that usually favors NE.
Normally I like the commentary of Cris Collinsworth; but my God Cris can you at least look at the reply your network was showing multiple times instead of spending all your time persuading yourself it was Jesse James part II? Ertz got 3 steps down after the grab unless my little beer buzz added 1; but it looked like the first step was simultaneous with the grab.
The other TD reception invited some questioning; BUT seeing NE only flagged 2-3 times overall in their last 2 games more than evened that up overall. They get away with a lot of arm grabbing on receivers their opponents haven't (even on the 1 out of bounds in the AFC Championship on a Pro Bowl Corner). While 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'll take a left and say it's a bout time NE's opponent got the break that usually favors NE.
Cris came around... somehow by the time it was over the steps counted stood at 4. The other TD "reception" wasn't one...
As for penalties... refs ate their whistles... and not just for NE. Early hold on Kelce was let go when he extended his arm to his side across the chest of rushing Pat... Harrison IIRC. That's an automatic call 17 weeks a year.
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Ertz - TD, became a runner.
Jesse James - probably, maybe a TD that's the part of the rule that needs clarified. If you have possession of the ball -and- cross the goal line plain it's a TD whether you juggle the ball later or not afterward. Now in the field of play, sidelines, etc. still needs work, too inconsistent and time consuming.
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What people seem to fail to understand with the catch rule (Not anyone in particular), is the argument of a running back crossing the goaline. They are different situations. A running back gains possession when he gets the ball, while a receiver has to by completing the catch.
The rule is not wrong, it's just how some interpret it. I dont know how to "fix" it for most to understand it, but the essence of the rule shouldn't be changed.
It's the difference in James and Ertz that shows the difference.
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What people seem to fail to understand with the catch rule (Not anyone in particular), is the argument of a running back crossing the goaline. They are different situations. A running back gains possession when he gets the ball, while a receiver has to by completing the catch.
The rule is not wrong, it's just how some interpret it. I dont know how to "fix" it for most to understand it, but the essence of the rule shouldn't be changed.
It's the difference in James and Ertz that shows the difference.
What people seem to fail to understand with the catch rule (Not anyone in particular), is the argument of a running back crossing the goaline. They are different situations. A running back gains possession when he gets the ball, while a receiver has to by completing the catch.
The rule is not wrong, it's just how some interpret it. I dont know how to "fix" it for most to understand it, but the essence of the rule shouldn't be changed.
It's the difference in James and Ertz that shows the difference.
I agree with you (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.
On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different.
Just ask steelrz fans everywhere (oh bad example
).
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
What people seem to fail to understand with the catch rule (Not anyone in particular), is the argument of a running back crossing the goaline. They are different situations. A running back gains possession when he gets the ball, while a receiver has to by completing the catch.
The rule is not wrong, it's just how some interpret it. I dont know how to "fix" it for most to understand it, but the essence of the rule shouldn't be changed.
It's the difference in James and Ertz that shows the difference.
I agree with you (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.
On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different.
Just ask steelrz fans everywhere (oh bad example
).
I agree with you (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.
On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different.
Just ask steelrz fans everywhere (oh bad example
).
It depends on if the receiver has gained possession if it should be the same. You can't just "catch" it and cross the goal line. That is the difference between a runner and receiver.
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What people seem to fail to understand with the catch rule (Not anyone in particular), is the argument of a running back crossing the goaline. They are different situations. A running back gains possession when he gets the ball, while a receiver has to by completing the catch.
The rule is not wrong, it's just how some interpret it. I dont know how to "fix" it for most to understand it, but the essence of the rule shouldn't be changed.
It's the difference in James and Ertz that shows the difference.
I agree with you (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.
On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different.
Just ask steelrz fans everywhere (oh bad example
).
I agree with you (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.
On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different.
Just ask steelrz fans everywhere (oh bad example
).
Yep....the object of the damn game is for the ball to cross the goal line, once the ball crosses anything that follows is irrelevant.
This video of an NFL rep contradicting himself has been brought up by many.
Al Riveron says "As we can see here Roethlisberger COMPLETES A PASS to James"....wait, say what ? "Completes a pass to James" you said?
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The problem I believe lies within the term 'the process of the catch': they should take back the rule to the days when you only had to look if the receiver had the ball in his hands and both feet in.
The damn process makes you:
- Mantain possesion throughout the entire process.
- You count if the player is in bounds and therefore it is a catch only after the possesion of the ball is constant.
- The ball has to "survive the ground".
- Any subtle movement of the ball puts on jeopardy if the receiver has the possesion.
There are many little things to check out, and analyzing for 5 mins something that happens in less than 3 seconds is a huge overdimension of the replay time.
Takeaway the "process" and it will be simple again.
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Ertz had made 2 steps after gaining control vs Jesse James just turn. Right Call
Clement didn't maintain control throughout the catch. Wrong Call
3 very bad no calls to me were 1. Hit on Cooks was certainly helmet to helmet, the Pass Interference on Jeffrey on 2 pt conversion, and the Pass Interference on the Hail Mary. Gronk may have been hit in the endzone, but that is a no call, but another receiver was BLASTED down field, that should have been the easiest call of the night.
Bottom line is the Eagles outplayed the Patriots. Foles was GREAT
Ertz had made 2 steps after gaining control vs Jesse James just turn. Right Call
Clement didn't maintain control throughout the catch. Wrong Call
3 very bad no calls to me were 1. Hit on Cooks was certainly helmet to helmet, the Pass Interference on Jeffrey on 2 pt conversion, and the Pass Interference on the Hail Mary. Gronk may have been hit in the endzone, but that is a no call, but another receiver was BLASTED down field, that should have been the easiest call of the night.
Bottom line is the Eagles outplayed the Patriots. Foles was GREAT
The first one cooks was a runner. No longer a defenseless receiver helmet to helmet was completely allowed. I don't know about the receiver blasted down field. If it were when the ball was in the air he would have been close enough to the ball to draw the pass interference call. Sort of like a catchable ball rule. If it was when brady still had the ball its 5 yards and still another hail Mary from the 45.
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I agree with you (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.
On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different.
Just ask steelrz fans everywhere (oh bad example
).
Yep....the object of the damn game is for the ball to cross the goal line, once the ball crosses anything that follows is irrelevant.
This video of an NFL rep contradicting himself has been brought up by many.
Al Riveron says "As we can see here Roethlisberger COMPLETES A PASS to James"....wait, say what ? "Completes a pass to James" you said?
Yep....the object of the damn game is for the ball to cross the goal line, once the ball crosses anything that follows is irrelevant.
This video of an NFL rep contradicting himself has been brought up by many.
Al Riveron says "As we can see here Roethlisberger COMPLETES A PASS to James"....wait, say what ? "Completes a pass to James" you said?
Jesse James tried to be the hero and clearly f*cked up period.
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