Here come the Bills...
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We don't need no #22. We can sign him up for peanuts and he'll return a new man.
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Not interested in trading down.
Quality gentlemen, not quantity.
A hour after the Draft starts the Browns can have their favorite QB and Fitzpatrick, Chubb or hell, Barkley.
Don't overthink it.
Not interested in trading down.
Quality gentlemen, not quantity.
A hour after the Draft starts the Browns can have their favorite QB and Fitzpatrick, Chubb or hell, Barkley.
Don't overthink it.
Oh, I don't disagree with you. It's just a very interesting scenario with MANY possibilities. While I have tons of respect for Dorsey & staff, I don't envy the situation(s) they face.
I think all bids well for our Browns. This Spring is NOT going to be boring.
Mike
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Given our recent trade down history in the first round. I would pass on the Bills offer, make them make that trade with the Colts or Giants. Then it improves the players we get to pick from at #4.
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Given our recent trade down history in the first round. I would pass on the Bills offer, make them make that trade with the Colts or Giants. Then it improves the players we get to pick from at #4.
Given our recent trade down history in the first round. I would pass on the Bills offer, make them make that trade with the Colts or Giants. Then it improves the players we get to pick from at #4.
One of the many options, and you are correct. Presuming we go QB at #1, if the Bills or another Team takes QB at 2 and/or 3, the talent pool at #4 (and beyond) just keeps getting stronger.
This could get interesting.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
At 4 we are getting a REAL good player (in theory). We have multiple picks in round 2 for adding quantity. Every year there's a team or two that DEMONSTRATES how important the QB position is. - Ironic how the Bills want nothing more to do with Tierod (I'm a car guy) and we WANT him to be our starter. And yet BOTH the Bills and Browns have the same purpose which is to draft the long term QB high in round 1.
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A top tier QB is involved with the #4 pick , so SCREW the damned value chart! It's called supply & demand. The Browns are in control here.
Mike
OK, I hear you.. Bills want to move up to #4....pay the premium in terms of value on return. No problem with that.....just saying that Bills would point it out....and argue about it...and want something back. Called Negotiations.
OK, I hear you.. Bills want to move up to #4....pay the premium in terms of value on return. No problem with that.....just saying that Bills would point it out....and argue about it...and want something back. Called Negotiations.
Give 'em Corey Coleman! Hell, we'd replace him TWICE with all those picks.
Mike
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The Bills just traded with the Bengals up to #12 by giving away Cordy Glenn and number #21. If you go by the trade value chart, that would be #12, 22, and 53 to get up to #4 almost exactly. If you are Dorsey, Would you consider this deal? The Bills are trading up and there is no doubt about it. Someone in the top 4 are getting those picks because they are going to offer them and I can see both NY and IND biting. If they called today, would you take that deal? That would give the Browns picks: #1, #12, #33, #35, #53 and #64...Basically owning the second round. However, it is for sure missing out on one of Barkley, Chubb, or Fitzpatrick and essentially making them take a qb with the first overall pick.
Here is a random mock draft to give an idea of who is in that range:
We've already picked up a "bridge QB", WR, & FS. See who we have signed in FA & then look at what's available with all those picks. That would give the Browns picks: #1, #12, #33, #35, #53 and #64 (you forgot#22). That's #1 for our QB, then 6 more in the top 2 rounds. WOW!
Have the Browns & Bills already talked about & possibly arranged this/ We'll see.
Mike
We've already picked up a "bridge QB", WR, & FS. See who we have signed in FA & then look at what's available with all those picks. That would give the Browns picks: #1, #12, #33, #35, #53 and #64 (you forgot#22). That's #1 for our QB, then 6 more in the top 2 rounds. WOW!
Have the Browns & Bills already talked about & possibly arranged this/ We'll see.
Mike
just stay away from pick 22, its cursed
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The Bills just traded with the Bengals up to #12 by giving away Cordy Glenn and number #21. If you go by the trade value chart, that would be #12, 22, and 53 to get up to #4 almost exactly. If you are Dorsey, Would you consider this deal? The Bills are trading up and there is no doubt about it. Someone in the top 4 are getting those picks because they are going to offer them and I can see both NY and IND biting. If they called today, would you take that deal? That would give the Browns picks: #1, #12, #33, #35, #53 and #64...Basically owning the second round. However, it is for sure missing out on one of Barkley, Chubb, or Fitzpatrick and essentially making them take a qb with the first overall pick.
Here is a random mock draft to give an idea of who is in that range:
I don't think your numbers are right.
Per my view of the traditional draft value chart: #4 is 1800 points. #12 is 1200 pts, and #22 is 780 points. Bills would give up 1980 for 1800 pts right there. So...now way they throw in #53 which is a 370 point commodity. That would be us getting 2350 for 1800 pts.
Now, maybe the Browns should demand that....but those numbers do not come out the way you say.
I don't think your numbers are right.
Per my view of the traditional draft value chart: #4 is 1800 points. #12 is 1200 pts, and #22 is 780 points. Bills would give up 1980 for 1800 pts right there. So...now way they throw in #53 which is a 370 point commodity. That would be us getting 2350 for 1800 pts.
Now, maybe the Browns should demand that....but those numbers do not come out the way you say.
I was using PFR value chart. I think the Jimmy Johnson chart is a little outdated. There is more value in the higher picks these days.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm
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We've already picked up a "bridge QB", WR, & FS. See who we have signed in FA & then look at what's available with all those picks. That would give the Browns picks: #1, #12, #33, #35, #53 and #64 (you forgot#22). That's #1 for our QB, then 6 more in the top 2 rounds. WOW!
Have the Browns & Bills already talked about & possibly arranged this/ We'll see.
Mike
just stay away from pick 22, its cursed
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I am hoping Bills trade with Giants.......they take a QB after we do then Colts decide Barkley or Chubb and we draft the one they don't ...we then have either an elite RB or elite edge rushers at both ends ..... we then have Garrett, Chubb and Ogbah rushing the passer ......
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Given our recent trade down history in the first round. I would pass on the Bills offer, make them make that trade with the Colts or Giants. Then it improves the players we get to pick from at #4.
One of the many options, and you are correct. Presuming we go QB at #1, if the Bills or another Team takes QB at 2 and/or 3, the talent pool at #4 (and beyond) just keeps getting stronger.
This could get interesting.
Mike
One of the many options, and you are correct. Presuming we go QB at #1, if the Bills or another Team takes QB at 2 and/or 3, the talent pool at #4 (and beyond) just keeps getting stronger.
This could get interesting.
Mike
That is because....when pressed, most talent evaluators say that none of these QBs should truly be taken in the first 10 picks.....but everyone knows the importance of a QB....so you could see at least 3 of them taken likely.
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I don't think your numbers are right.
Per my view of the traditional draft value chart: #4 is 1800 points. #12 is 1200 pts, and #22 is 780 points. Bills would give up 1980 for 1800 pts right there. So...now way they throw in #53 which is a 370 point commodity. That would be us getting 2350 for 1800 pts.
Now, maybe the Browns should demand that....but those numbers do not come out the way you say.
I was using PFR value chart. I think the Jimmy Johnson chart is a little outdated. There is more value in the higher picks these days.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm
I was using PFR value chart. I think the Jimmy Johnson chart is a little outdated. There is more value in the higher picks these days.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm
OK. I see that now. 21, 22 and give us back #65 would do it. Not that they should do it.
Like I said.....it all depends on what they do in FA.
Do they pick up another 1 or 2 DBs, making the pick of Minkah superfluous? Presuming both Chubb and Barkley go 2,3.
No...wait...that still is not right. We are talking a trade of both #12 and 22.....not 21 and 22. So 12 is 1200 pts...in the PFR system...and 22 is 780 pts.
So my initial math is correct...... 12 and 22 would be 1980 pts in trade for our 1800 pt. #4 pick.
Could that deal be workable?
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We've already picked up a "bridge QB", WR, & FS. See who we have signed in FA & then look at what's available with all those picks. That would give the Browns picks: #1, #12, #33, #35, #53 and #64 (you forgot#22). That's #1 for our QB, then 6 more in the top 2 rounds. WOW!
Have the Browns & Bills already talked about & possibly arranged this/ We'll see.
Mike
just stay away from pick 22, its cursed
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Not interested in trading down.
Quality gentlemen, not quantity.
A hour after the Draft starts the Browns can have their favorite QB and Fitzpatrick, Chubb or hell, Barkley.
Don't overthink it.
Not interested in trading down. Quality gentlemen, not quantity.
A hour after the Draft starts the Browns can have their favorite QB and Fitzpatrick, Chubb or hell, Barkley. Don't overthink it.
This is exactly the type of draft in which to trade back the #4 for the kind of haul the Bills can and would pony up... short on elites, but with depth where they exist and long on near-elites.
QB at #1.
Fitz and Chubb are near-elites to my eye. In Fitz's case that only applies to projecting him at FS, because he is clearly not the best CB in the Draft Class. And as a FS there are alternatives on his heels. Not the case with Chubb, however, his route to the top is a combo of good to very good skills vs. run and pass, and an absolute dearth of Edge talent in this class... especially at 4-3 DE.
Barkley? Even if I concede that he is "elite", which I think is debatable, I maintain that there is more than adequate, high quality depth through round 2 to make you forget him. Then there's the fact that this is not the 60's when Jim Brown played every Offensive snap of every game. The RB position simply does not merit the weight to be a foundational building block.
The #12 puts you in the mix for players like Denzel Ward (top CB), Derwin James (top FS), DaRon Payne (top 3-tech), Vander Esche (#2 LB... but my #1).
The #22 puts you in position for DJ Moore (top WR), Connor Williams (top OT), plus #2s at OLB and CB.
The 53? Nice ammo to move one of the other, earlier R2 picks back up into R1 depending on how the draft developed.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Not interested in trading down. Quality gentlemen, not quantity.
A hour after the Draft starts the Browns can have their favorite QB and Fitzpatrick, Chubb or hell, Barkley. Don't overthink it.
This is exactly the type of draft in which to trade back the #4 for the kind of haul the Bills can and would pony up... short on elites, but with depth where they exist and long on near-elites.
QB at #1.
Fitz and Chubb are near-elites to my eye. In Fitz's case that only applies to projecting him at FS, because he is clearly not the best CB in the Draft Class. And as a FS there are alternatives on his heels. Not the case with Chubb, however, his route to the top is a combo of good to very good skills vs. run and pass, and an absolute dearth of Edge talent in this class... especially at 4-3 DE.
Barkley? Even if I concede that he is "elite", which I think is debatable, I maintain that there is more than adequate, high quality depth through round 2 to make you forget him. Then there's the fact that this is not the 60's when Jim Brown played every Offensive snap of every game. The RB position simply does not merit the weight to be a foundational building block.
The #12 puts you in the mix for players like Denzel Ward (top CB), Derwin James (top FS), DaRon Payne (top 3-tech), Vander Esche (#2 LB... but my #1).
The #22 puts you in position for DJ Moore (top WR), Connor Williams (top OT), plus #2s at OLB and CB.
The 53? Nice ammo to move one of the other, earlier R2 picks back up into R1 depending on how the draft developed.
This is exactly the type of draft in which to trade back the #4 for the kind of haul the Bills can and would pony up... short on elites, but with depth where they exist and long on near-elites.
QB at #1.
Fitz and Chubb are near-elites to my eye. In Fitz's case that only applies to projecting him at FS, because he is clearly not the best CB in the Draft Class. And as a FS there are alternatives on his heels. Not the case with Chubb, however, his route to the top is a combo of good to very good skills vs. run and pass, and an absolute dearth of Edge talent in this class... especially at 4-3 DE.
Barkley? Even if I concede that he is "elite", which I think is debatable, I maintain that there is more than adequate, high quality depth through round 2 to make you forget him. Then there's the fact that this is not the 60's when Jim Brown played every Offensive snap of every game. The RB position simply does not merit the weight to be a foundational building block.
The #12 puts you in the mix for players like Denzel Ward (top CB), Derwin James (top FS), DaRon Payne (top 3-tech), Vander Esche (#2 LB... but my #1).
The #22 puts you in position for DJ Moore (top WR), Connor Williams (top OT), plus #2s at OLB and CB.
The 53? Nice ammo to move one of the other, earlier R2 picks back up into R1 depending on how the draft developed.
the BIlls need a QB I would also ask for next years #1
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Not interested in trading down. Quality gentlemen, not quantity.
A hour after the Draft starts the Browns can have their favorite QB and Fitzpatrick, Chubb or hell, Barkley. Don't overthink it.
This is exactly the type of draft in which to trade back the #4 for the kind of haul the Bills can and would pony up... short on elites, but with depth where they exist and long on near-elites.
QB at #1.
Fitz and Chubb are near-elites to my eye. In Fitz's case that only applies to projecting him at FS, because he is clearly not the best CB in the Draft Class. And as a FS there are alternatives on his heels. Not the case with Chubb, however, his route to the top is a combo of good to very good skills vs. run and pass, and an absolute dearth of Edge talent in this class... especially at 4-3 DE.
Barkley? Even if I concede that he is "elite", which I think is debatable, I maintain that there is more than adequate, high quality depth through round 2 to make you forget him. Then there's the fact that this is not the 60's when Jim Brown played every Offensive snap of every game. The RB position simply does not merit the weight to be a foundational building block.
The #12 puts you in the mix for players like Denzel Ward (top CB), Derwin James (top FS), DaRon Payne (top 3-tech), Vander Esche (#2 LB... but my #1).
The #22 puts you in position for DJ Moore (top WR), Connor Williams (top OT), plus #2s at OLB and CB.
The 53? Nice ammo to move one of the other, earlier R2 picks back up into R1 depending on how the draft developed.
This is exactly the type of draft in which to trade back the #4 for the kind of haul the Bills can and would pony up... short on elites, but with depth where they exist and long on near-elites.
QB at #1.
Fitz and Chubb are near-elites to my eye. In Fitz's case that only applies to projecting him at FS, because he is clearly not the best CB in the Draft Class. And as a FS there are alternatives on his heels. Not the case with Chubb, however, his route to the top is a combo of good to very good skills vs. run and pass, and an absolute dearth of Edge talent in this class... especially at 4-3 DE.
Barkley? Even if I concede that he is "elite", which I think is debatable, I maintain that there is more than adequate, high quality depth through round 2 to make you forget him. Then there's the fact that this is not the 60's when Jim Brown played every Offensive snap of every game. The RB position simply does not merit the weight to be a foundational building block.
The #12 puts you in the mix for players like Denzel Ward (top CB), Derwin James (top FS), DaRon Payne (top 3-tech), Vander Esche (#2 LB... but my #1).
The #22 puts you in position for DJ Moore (top WR), Connor Williams (top OT), plus #2s at OLB and CB.
The 53? Nice ammo to move one of the other, earlier R2 picks back up into R1 depending on how the draft developed.
Worth consideration...certainly....when you lay out those options.
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