Baker Mayfield Thread
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The Manziel comparisons aren't lazy in the fact that you have two undersized QB's that come from conferences that place their best athletes on one side of the ball, struggle with mechanics and reads in and while climbing the pocket, have trouble reading thus exploiting the middle of the field and play in offenses that mask what they're not good at - which just so happens to be things that make NFL QB's elite...
I'll cheer for him, I'll pull for him, I pray to Christ that Baker even proves me wrong. I fully expect him to have some of those flashy plays and Heisman moments. But he'll fail to be consistent, methodical and precise. It is because of that I'm not on board with this pick at all.
God bless the rest of you for being able to stomach it.
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Baker was the "analytics" pick. . .
And yet, he was picked by a "football guy".
So when a guy checks all the boxes for an "analytics guy" and checks all the boxes for a "football guy", what do you call him?
And yet, he was picked by a "football guy".
So when a guy checks all the boxes for an "analytics guy" and checks all the boxes for a "football guy", what do you call him?
I am starting to wonder if the reason Dorsey is here and working with DePo and Berry is because his grasp and knowledge of using the numbers is bigger than those outside the organisation think
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Eight episodes up and available so far on Mayfield's road to the draft from the end of the college season.
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So I slept on this Mayfield pick. I still have mixed feelings about him being taken number 1 overall, but that's not important anymore. What this shows though is that Dorsey is going to take his guys, no matter what other people's value on them might be. Here's my breakdown after watching some more tape and reading a little more.
-The mayfield/manziel comparison is lazy journalism. I think they are completely different people and totally different players. JFF had substance abuse issues, Mayfield has college maturity issues. Yes, he has "white privilege" compared to Lamar Jackson, but he's a better qb than Jackson (not athlete b/c nobody compares to Jackson in that regard) and everyone knows qb's get the benefit of the doubt.
-There are so many different evaluations of him and ranges of opinion, it's easy to see why people have totally different emotions. Some evaluators love him, some hate him. It's interesting to me that the "football guy" ended up picking the most statistically significant qb in the draft despite the fact he is 6 ft tall. Meaning, he led the country in almost every major qb evaluation (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/player-stat/completion-percentage). If Dorsey just went on old school drafting, he would have taken Rosen or Allen. But he didn't and he stuck to his gut feeling throughout this whole process. We should have known whom his pick was going to be when he said he wanted winners.
-Mayfield and TT are perfect for each other. TT is the quiet, just grind and get stuff done veteran, Mayfield is the fiery, young buck who is going to do whatever it takes to get on the field. I think this is good for both of them. I think this could have a similar effect that Mahomes had on Smith last year in KC. Smith set the world on fire, his first 8 weeks. I think it could be the same here. Also, they are very similar playing styles and it would be easy to say that Mayfield if TT 2.0. Neither have elite athleticism, but both can move in the pocket, create with their legs (TT is a little better), and don't turn the ball over. Where Mayfield has the advantage is that I think he throws the ball with better anticipation and timing than TT. I think they are going to make each other better because TT won't have the chance to sit back and let the rookie learn. Mayfield is going to push him from Day 1.
-Troy Aikmen said in his analysis, that height is the most overrated criteria in evaluating a qb. He's 6/4 and he couldn't see over his line at times. Mayfields' had one of the biggest lines in college football last year (https://stormininnorman.com/2017/07/15/oklahoma-football-sooner-2017-offensive-line-best-in-business/) averaging 6'5, 323 lbs including a 6'8" left tackle. It's all about creating lanes and Mayfields ability to get back quickly, and his footwork in the pocket allow him to see lanes. Dorsey, emphasized this when he said that his batted ball percentage was one of the lowest in the country. If you watched the senior bowl tape as well, this was the same thing. Allen had almost twice as many balls batted down as mayfield. **Note: I do think height is important and it's easy to be a rear view homer here but with the way the game is changing into a lot more RPO style of fb, I'm not quite sure it is as important as it was 10 years ago**
-I think this draft is going to have 2 successful qbs from the 5 that were taken in the first round...Mayfield (because i'm trying to be an optimist here and might have a meltdown if he fails) and Rosen. Rosen is going to beast in AZ and i think him going number 10 is a giant chip on his shoulder. NY is going to eat Darnold alive and Allen is going to be pressed into action way too early. Jackson is a wild card. He's either going to be amazing or bust out completely and become a WR. (his first 3 games, he will be unstoppable and then will begin to tail off similar to RG3 when teams figured out how to contain him)
-Mayfield needs to learn the intricacies of the nfl game, not the mechanics of throwing a FB. I think that is a huge advantage because he can just concentrate on the speed of the game. He knows how to "throw guys open" and the importance of timing routes. He's got a very good arm that is going to get stronger the more he plays, but he knows he can't rely on it. The other big advantage is that Todd Haley is in the building. He's not going to let him get away with the BS stuff.
-a lot of people wanted watson last year because he had "it". Mayfield has "it". He's a gamer and a baller and proved it on the big stage multiple times.
Overall, IMOP, Mayfield is a player. He wasn't my top choice (that was Rosen) but the kid can ball. If nothing else, he is going to push this team to be better. He may not end up in the hall of fame like Drew Brees (who was a bust his first 3 years BTW- hence the Philip Rivers era), it all depends on the system. If Haley and Hue can adapt their offense to TT and Mayfield, I think he could really excel. It won't be for a lack of effort, that's for sure.
So I slept on this Mayfield pick. I still have mixed feelings about him being taken number 1 overall, but that's not important anymore. What this shows though is that Dorsey is going to take his guys, no matter what other people's value on them might be. Here's my breakdown after watching some more tape and reading a little more.
-The mayfield/manziel comparison is lazy journalism. I think they are completely different people and totally different players. JFF had substance abuse issues, Mayfield has college maturity issues. Yes, he has "white privilege" compared to Lamar Jackson, but he's a better qb than Jackson (not athlete b/c nobody compares to Jackson in that regard) and everyone knows qb's get the benefit of the doubt.
-There are so many different evaluations of him and ranges of opinion, it's easy to see why people have totally different emotions. Some evaluators love him, some hate him. It's interesting to me that the "football guy" ended up picking the most statistically significant qb in the draft despite the fact he is 6 ft tall. Meaning, he led the country in almost every major qb evaluation (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/player-stat/completion-percentage). If Dorsey just went on old school drafting, he would have taken Rosen or Allen. But he didn't and he stuck to his gut feeling throughout this whole process. We should have known whom his pick was going to be when he said he wanted winners.
-Mayfield and TT are perfect for each other. TT is the quiet, just grind and get stuff done veteran, Mayfield is the fiery, young buck who is going to do whatever it takes to get on the field. I think this is good for both of them. I think this could have a similar effect that Mahomes had on Smith last year in KC. Smith set the world on fire, his first 8 weeks. I think it could be the same here. Also, they are very similar playing styles and it would be easy to say that Mayfield if TT 2.0. Neither have elite athleticism, but both can move in the pocket, create with their legs (TT is a little better), and don't turn the ball over. Where Mayfield has the advantage is that I think he throws the ball with better anticipation and timing than TT. I think they are going to make each other better because TT won't have the chance to sit back and let the rookie learn. Mayfield is going to push him from Day 1.
-Troy Aikmen said in his analysis, that height is the most overrated criteria in evaluating a qb. He's 6/4 and he couldn't see over his line at times. Mayfields' had one of the biggest lines in college football last year (https://stormininnorman.com/2017/07/15/oklahoma-football-sooner-2017-offensive-line-best-in-business/) averaging 6'5, 323 lbs including a 6'8" left tackle. It's all about creating lanes and Mayfields ability to get back quickly, and his footwork in the pocket allow him to see lanes. Dorsey, emphasized this when he said that his batted ball percentage was one of the lowest in the country. If you watched the senior bowl tape as well, this was the same thing. Allen had almost twice as many balls batted down as mayfield. **Note: I do think height is important and it's easy to be a rear view homer here but with the way the game is changing into a lot more RPO style of fb, I'm not quite sure it is as important as it was 10 years ago**
-I think this draft is going to have 2 successful qbs from the 5 that were taken in the first round...Mayfield (because i'm trying to be an optimist here and might have a meltdown if he fails) and Rosen. Rosen is going to beast in AZ and i think him going number 10 is a giant chip on his shoulder. NY is going to eat Darnold alive and Allen is going to be pressed into action way too early. Jackson is a wild card. He's either going to be amazing or bust out completely and become a WR. (his first 3 games, he will be unstoppable and then will begin to tail off similar to RG3 when teams figured out how to contain him)
-Mayfield needs to learn the intricacies of the nfl game, not the mechanics of throwing a FB. I think that is a huge advantage because he can just concentrate on the speed of the game. He knows how to "throw guys open" and the importance of timing routes. He's got a very good arm that is going to get stronger the more he plays, but he knows he can't rely on it. The other big advantage is that Todd Haley is in the building. He's not going to let him get away with the BS stuff.
-a lot of people wanted watson last year because he had "it". Mayfield has "it". He's a gamer and a baller and proved it on the big stage multiple times.
Overall, IMOP, Mayfield is a player. He wasn't my top choice (that was Rosen) but the kid can ball. If nothing else, he is going to push this team to be better. He may not end up in the hall of fame like Drew Brees (who was a bust his first 3 years BTW- hence the Philip Rivers era), it all depends on the system. If Haley and Hue can adapt their offense to TT and Mayfield, I think he could really excel. It won't be for a lack of effort, that's for sure.
I like your words.
And l like Baker. Someone a month plus ago posted his pass plays from the OSU game last year as a sort of “this is why you DON’T draft Mayfield” kinda thing, and it lit me up in the other direction.
I saw a dude who had instincts, didn’t hesitate on his first read if it was there, but also scrambled and scanned when it wasn’t.
I did a quick bit of Googling for his WORST game of 2017 and came up with the above linked game against Tulane. He hit double digits in incompletions that game. Holy shìt, right?
Don’t bother watching it, it shows none of the incompletions. If someone has game film on the guy as any sort of “anti- Baker” ammo, l’d love to see it.
And you “it’s the Big 12 vacuum” people, and inflated numbers because of scheme people, l get that, but l also see with some degree of consistancy a guy who, when things go sideways, responds well.
There are things about his playing style l absolutely love. He’s a wee bit deceptive. Does this shimmy shimmy things with his shoulders, looks one way and slings it another, fake throws, shuffles feet and hips, pulls off the “maybe l got the ball, maybe l don’t” thing.
l actually think he will help the run game.
I mean l get it. Some of you wanted the 8 foot tall guy who can throw the ball a million yards. I’m more concerned with instincts and football acumen, and l think there’s no better choice.
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The Manziel comparisons aren't lazy in the fact that you have two undersized QB's that come from conferences that place their best athletes on one side of the ball, struggle with mechanics and reads in and while climbing the pocket, have trouble reading thus exploiting the middle of the field and play in offenses that mask what they're not good at - which just so happens to be things that make NFL QB's elite...
I'll cheer for him, I'll pull for him, I pray to Christ that Baker even proves me wrong. I fully expect him to have some of those flashy plays and Heisman moments. But he'll fail to be consistent, methodical and precise. It is because of that I'm not on board with this pick at all.
God bless the rest of you for being able to stomach it.
The Manziel comparisons aren't lazy in the fact that you have two undersized QB's that come from conferences that place their best athletes on one side of the ball, struggle with mechanics and reads in and while climbing the pocket, have trouble reading thus exploiting the middle of the field and play in offenses that mask what they're not good at - which just so happens to be things that make NFL QB's elite...
I'll cheer for him, I'll pull for him, I pray to Christ that Baker even proves me wrong. I fully expect him to have some of those flashy plays and Heisman moments. But he'll fail to be consistent, methodical and precise. It is because of that I'm not on board with this pick at all.
God bless the rest of you for being able to stomach it.
Show me what you mean by “trouble exploiting the middle of the field” comment. I actually see that as a strength for Mayfield.
Also, did you just infer that the SEC is similar to the Big 12 in that they place their best athletes on offense? Some regard the SEC as a powerhouse conference.
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Haha, poor guy. How long have you been a Browns fan if one night in April is enough to put a fork in you?
No it’s thirty years of the same Sheet
No it’s thirty years of the same Sheet
To be fair there has been vastly different shìt in the last 30 years. Not having a team to root for is significantly different than having a team that sucks to root for.
Carry on pissing in your wheaties though...
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So as a person who only listened to the bad about mayfield with manzeil flashbacks I decided to do some more research about mayfield...
we might just be ok... kid has some grit.
Im no longer as depressed
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Baker was the "analytics" pick. . .
And yet, he was picked by a "football guy".
So when a guy checks all the boxes for an "analytics guy" and checks all the boxes for a "football guy", what do you call him?
And yet, he was picked by a "football guy".
So when a guy checks all the boxes for an "analytics guy" and checks all the boxes for a "football guy", what do you call him?
The #1 pick in the draft?
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So as a person who only listened to the bad about mayfield with manzeil flashbacks I decided to do some more research about mayfield...
we might just be ok... kid has some grit.
Im no longer as depressed
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I can understand the flag planting, but the crotch grabbing, mouthing, police run video, etc have me feeling a bit like a swan dive in Vegas with Stormy Daniels is only a dumb decision away. I get it. He's not the safe pick. This could work out as either Brees or JFF 2.0. But Jezzzzzzzz another Big 12 QB? Really?
I can understand the flag planting, but the crotch grabbing, mouthing, police run video, etc have me feeling a bit like a swan dive in Vegas with Stormy Daniels is only a dumb decision away. I get it. He's not the safe pick. This could work out as either Brees or JFF 2.0. But Jezzzzzzzz another Big 12 QB? Really?
Well....my impression is that Dorsey knew about the Browns failures at that position and decided to NOT go with the same pick.
I guess his attitude was: Go Big or Go Home!
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Zombo said:
I don't get trading down if you can have your pick between Barkley and Chubb. In a less Qb-driven year these guys would be #1 and #2.
Everybody always says BPA, but no one ever means BPA?
Zombo
For instance, Chubb was the BPA in many eyes but we went Ward because it was such a drastic need. People might be upset, but he's the best corner and we need to stop the freaking pass.
For instance, Chubb was the BPA in many eyes but we went Ward because it was such a drastic need. People might be upset, but he's the best corner and we need to stop the freaking pass.
This IS what Dorsey did: Drafted for need. I am sure most would say you don't draft for need if you have 1 and 4......but that is what the Browns did.
QB and CB were the Browns two biggest weaknesses.
Now, those weaknesses have been addressed with the highest possible assets. Now they can fill in lesser needs in round 2. And hopefully do well.
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I don't get the PO G hostility he was pimping the guy that most thought was the best player in the draft.
A good case for taking him. But you must have a real quarterback...
WSS
It was because he was so obsequious about it. servile, ingratiating, sycophantic, fawning, unctuous, oily, oleaginous, groveling, cringing,subservient, submissive, slavish;
You know....the way your are toward short women with big tits.
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If Mayfield was 2 or 3 inches taller the so called experts would of had him #1 QB ...... I am prepared to support him give him a chance and judge him in 3 years not several hours after the draft before he has even pulled on a Browns jersey .....
We have won the drafts the experts have said for a few years .....the so called experts need to read this
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Baker was the "analytics" pick. . .
And yet, he was picked by a "football guy".
So when a guy checks all the boxes for an "analytics guy" and checks all the boxes for a "football guy", what do you call him?
And yet, he was picked by a "football guy".
So when a guy checks all the boxes for an "analytics guy" and checks all the boxes for a "football guy", what do you call him?
The #1 pick in the draft?
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I will learn how to embed tweets like that one day
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Tony Grossi is spitting his dummy out again, makes the pick worth it whatever happens on the field in future
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