POLL: When will Baker start?

[hish747]

@ghoolie said:

What happens in camp if Baker is clearly better than Tie Rod?

I am not stirring up schidt here, BUT.............if we are to believe anything about Mayfield, he is a balls-to-the-wall fighter. So what happens if he shows all the other QBs up? Does he sit the bench? And if he does sit regardless of his performance, will it make him bitter? If he shows Tie Rod up, would he deserve to start? Would that be another Kizer fiasco?

The Browns have set themselves up for another QB controversy IF Mayfield shows the veteran up. Especially if Tie Rod stars and once again the Browns find themselves in Goosegg town.

How will we evaluate Mayfield as better than Taylor before the start of the season? As we all know, preseason success is no indication of success during the  actual NFL season. Taking this into account, I would agree that, barring disaster, Tyrod should be the starter. Not necessarily for the entire season as I don't think that's likely. But I don't think that the evaluation can reliably be made early on. So, it's good for Baker to watch and learn the NFL game and learn. That said, I expect he will be the starter by week 6-8.

I don't think this transition would cause controversy. It would be a completely sensible way to move forward.

[jrb12711]

@mjp28 said:

Throwing a rookie quarterback in the fire especially on a bad team can be a disaster, remember Tim Couch? He got the living crap knocked out of him especially in years 1 and 2  (see stats, yes numbers). It can affect your entire professional career.

Passing 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk ▼	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career				62	59	22-37-0	1025	1714	59.8	11131	64	3.7	67	3.9	79	6.5	5.5	10.9	179.5	75.1	166	1119	5.33	4.40	8.8	10	11	32
1999	22	CLE	QB	2	15	14	2-12-0	223	399	55.9	2447	15	3.8	13	3.3	78	6.1	5.4	11.0	163.1	73.2	56	359	4.59	3.96	12.3	2	2	8
2001	24	CLE	QB	2	16	16	7-9-0	272	454	59.9	3040	17	3.7	21	4.6	78	6.7	5.4	11.2	190.0	73.1	51	353	5.32	4.12	10.1	3	3	9
2002	25	CLE	QB	2	14	14	8-6-0	273	443	61.6	2842	18	4.1	18	4.1	78	6.4	5.4	10.4	203.0	76.8	30	213	5.56	4.61	6.3	3	4	8
2003	26	CLE	QB	2	10	8	3-5-0	120	203	59.1	1319	7	3.4	6	3.0	71	6.5	5.9	11.0	131.9	77.6	19	116	5.42	4.83	8.6	1	1	4
2000	23	CLE	qb	2	7	7	2-5-0	137	215	63.7	1483	7	3.3	9	4.2	79	6.9	5.7	10.8	211.9	77.3	10	78	6.24	5.07	4.4	1	1	3

Bernie Kosar on the other hand was a gifted young quarterback on a COMPLETE team, different results. Same with Dan Marino and a very few others.

If you can sit a rookie quarterback it is a good idea. How would Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Matt Hasslebeck, Steve Young and others have fared as the 2017 BROWNS starter? Not good and would have fled the team at the first opportunity. It has virtually nothing to do with testosterone. 

Oh I'm an older Boomer, son.

I mean (and it pains me to say I'm with Ghoolie) the NFL has changed a ton in the past decade or so. The latest guy you have on your list (Romo) began his career in the NFL in 2004. Almost Every young and coming QB in recent memory has started from day 1 OR no more than the latter part of year 1 (like Goff). The only exceptions  (and granted, I'm doing this off the top of my head) I can think of are Jimmy G. and Mahomes (who we'll see about) in KC. It's a trend that can't be ignored. I'm not saying Mayfield should start week 1, in fact I've always lauded over Taylor and his ability to play the game. But the days of QB's riding the pine just aren't there. 

[mjp28]

Yes the NFL does change over the decades, always has and that will continue.  On the present quarterback situation in the NFL there is a real more recent demand which shows in younger players being thrown into the starting lineup earlier than ever and there are plenty more ~35+ year old guys about to retire (Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees - eventually among others).

Is there an advantage to starting rookies, no if you can wait.  I think they are having a tougher time finding 32 experienced starters and 32 backups. Colleges are going to more spread of fences and less traditional drop back passing.

Another thing is that players in ALL positions are coming out of college better trained since high school and better conditioned than ever and that trend will continue. 

But for teams like Cleveland there is a risk to rushing a quarterback out on the field too early in this "win now or else" coaching philosophy. I still say in the long run the teams are better off developing quarterbacks let's see if that happens in years to come. The 2018 QB class will be an interesting case study there.

[TopDawg31]

I believe he won't see enough reps in the 3 hole. Hue already said they won't share reps equally.  I do believe by seasons end Baker will take the job away from Tyrod.

[hish747]

@ghoolie said:

What happens in camp if Baker is clearly better than Tie Rod?

I am not stirring up schidt here, BUT.............if we are to believe anything about Mayfield, he is a balls-to-the-wall fighter. So what happens if he shows all the other QBs up? Does he sit the bench? And if he does sit regardless of his performance, will it make him bitter? If he shows Tie Rod up, would he deserve to start? Would that be another Kizer fiasco?

The Browns have set themselves up for another QB controversy IF Mayfield shows the veteran up. Especially if Tie Rod stars and once again the Browns find themselves in Goosegg town.

How will we evaluate Mayfield as better than Taylor before the start of the season? As we all know, preseason success is no indication of success during the  actual NFL season. Taking this into account, I would agree with Jackson that, barring disaster, Tyrod should be the starter. Not necessarily for the entire season as I don't think that's likely. But I don't think that the evaluation can reliably be made early on. So, it's good for Baker to watch and learn the NFL game and learn. That said, I expect he will be the starter by week 6-8.

I don't think this transition would cause controversy. It would be a completely sensible way to move forward towards our future QB..

[mjp28]

@topdawg31 said:

I believe he won't see enough reps in the 3 hole. Hue already said they won't share reps equally.  I do believe by seasons end Baker will take the job away from Tyrod.

I can see Mayfield as the #2 guy, the one snap away guy sooner than later especially since Cleveland has such a tough time attracting good FA QBs.  

I was hoping for an A. Smith guy with Kizer and his one year as a professional QB as #1 & 2 but that sure never happened.

Let's hope this draft filled enough holes to be a serious team in 2019.

[mjp28]

@hish747 said:

How will we evaluate Mayfield as better than Taylor before the start of the season? As we all know, preseason success is no indication of success during the  actual NFL season. Taking this into account, I would agree that, barring disaster, Tyrod should be the starter. Not necessarily for the entire season as I don't think that's likely. But I don't think that the evaluation can reliably be made early on. So, it's good for Baker to watch and learn the NFL game and learn. That said, I expect he will be the starter by week 6-8.

I don't think this transition would cause controversy. It would be a completely sensible way to move forward towards our future QB..

The 0-fer Kizer fiasco as some lie to put it was largely due to not having a reliable deep receiving core, hopefully that will be better plus Kizer needed more experience obviously and the play calling was very suspect at times.

And I've always believed you need offence, defense and special teams to be successful the secondary didn't help the cause and a lot of come from behind scenarios and too many poor field positions. I also wanted the best DE available. 

This won't be all Mayfield at least for the first half of the season I'm afraid the fans better get ready for a 4-6 win season anything over that will be well....exciting? 

[mohican]

@mjp28 said:

I can see Mayfield as the #2 guy, the one snap away guy sooner than later especially since Cleveland has such a tough time attracting good FA QBs.  

I was hoping for an A. Smith guy with Kizer and his one year as a professional QB as #1 & 2 but that sure never happened.

Let's hope this draft filled enough holes to be a serious team in 2019.

how about filling enough holes to be a serious team in 2018?  

[The Gipper]

@mohican said:

how about filling enough holes to be a serious team in 2018?  

Or...this:

[The Gipper]

@mohican said:

how about filling enough holes to be a serious team in 2018?  

OK,  Mohican....answer a question....about your screen name...and the river/territory it derives from:

Is it pronounced:

Mo-hee-can   or:

Mo-hick--an

[Canton Dawg]

@hoorta said:

The problem is- the horrendous impatience of the majority of Browns fans. Let's get real- we're staring an 0-2 start to the season, and how many more losses will it take for the fans to start screaming for Baker the Savior to take over? 

Let’s not forget the Hue factor.

The man is 1-31, and If Tyrod starts to flounder and the Browns are 0-4 or 0-5 out of the gate, I don’t think Hue will think twice about putting in Mayfield.

Especially if Mayfield is doing well in practice.

[The Gipper]

@canton-dawg said:

Let’s not forget the Hue factor.

The man is 1-31, and If Tyrod starts to flounder and the Browns are 0-4 or 0-5 out of the gate, I don’t think Hue will think twice about putting in Mayfield.

Especially if Mayfield is doing well in practice.

It won't save his job if he starts out like that.   JH may not want Hue to get his hands on his new prize possession and fuyuck him up.

[mjp28]

@mohican said:

how about filling enough holes to be a serious team in 2018?  

I guess that depends on how one defines serious. I put the 2018 total O/U on wins at about 5 1/2 right now.....maybe 4 1/2 might be better.

[domcucch1994]

Think about it..

Darnold-20

Rosen-21

Jackson-21

Mayfield-23

Not saying that he is old by any means, but for a prospect who is gonna sit and learn, you would think they would of taken someone a year or two younger..

My prediction is he is starting by week 8 if we are out of it. Gotta see what you have if Tyrod and Stanton can't produce.

Your thoughts?

[JimboJones]

Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers weren't starters until they were 25...

[The Gipper]

No....Brian Sipe was drafted at the age of 23....then spent two years on the Taxi Squad.....then another couple of years playing here and there.

He did not become the Browns full time starter until age 27

....and he is still the Browns all time leader in  games started, attempts, completions etc.

It is not too late:

Passing

•  

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career				125	112	57-55-0	1944	3439	56.5	23713	154	4.5	149	4.3	74	6.9	5.8	12.2	189.7	74.8	224	1889	5.96	4.97	6.1	17	23	88
1974	25	CLE	qb	17	10	5	2-3-0	59	108	54.6	603	1	0.9	7	6.5	37	5.6	2.9	10.2	60.3	47.0	15	122	3.91	1.51	12.2	1	2	3
1975	26	CLE	qb	17	7	2	0-2-0	45	88	51.1	427	1	1.1	3	3.4	22	4.9	3.5	9.5	61.0	54.5	8	58	3.84	2.65	8.3			2
1976	27	CLE	QB	17	14	12	7-5-0	178	312	57.1	2113	17	5.4	14	4.5	52	6.8	5.8	11.9	150.9	77.3	16	142	6.01	5.13	4.9	1	1	10
1977	28	CLE	QB	17	9	9	5-4-0	112	195	57.4	1233	9	4.6	14	7.2	52	6.3	4.0	11.0	137.0	61.8	16	114	5.30	3.17	7.6	2	2	6
1978	29	CLE	QB	17	16	16	8-8-0	222	399	55.6	2906	21	5.3	15	3.8	69	7.3	6.6	13.1	181.6	80.7	29	229	6.25	5.66	6.8	2	2	12
1979	30	CLE	QB	17	16	16	9-7-0	286	535	53.5	3793	28	5.2	26	4.9	74	7.1	5.9	13.3	237.1	73.4	43	347	5.96	4.91	7.4	5	7	14
1980*+	31	CLE	QB	17	16	16	11-5-0	337	554	60.8	4132	30	5.4	14	2.5	65	7.5	7.4	12.3	258.3	91.4	23	217	6.79	6.73	4.0	3	4	16
1981	32	CLE	QB	17	16	16	5-11-0	313	567	55.2	3876	17	3.0	25	4.4	62	6.8	5.5	12.4	242.3	68.2	34	310	5.93	4.63	5.7	2	2	10
1982	33	CLE	QB	17	6	6	2-4-0	101	185	54.6	1064	4	2.2	8	4.3	40	5.8	4.2	10.5	177.3	60.7	13	117	4.78	3.37	6.6	0	1	3
1983	34	CLE	QB	17	15	14	8-6-0	291	496	58.7	3566	26	5.2	23	4.6	66	7.2	6.2	12.3	237.7	79.1	27	233	6.37	5.39	5.2	1	2	12

[Tour2ma]

@domcucch1994 said:

Not saying that he is old by any means, but for a prospect who is gonna sit and learn, you would think they would of taken someone a year or two younger..

My prediction is he is starting by week 8 if we are out of it. Gotta see what you have if Tyrod and Stanton can't produce.

Your thoughts?

Great question...

Assuming Mayfield is ready, i.e., knows the playbook, can get the playcalls out, can work from under Center and can make pre-snap reads, then once we are eliminated from the playoffs we can start looking for Baker to start.

But Mayfield has to be ready first.

We have 6 games after our Week 11 Bye Week... I think those are likely his.

[mjp28]

Age is just one factor, your physical tools, mental ability, team situation are more important. 

The Kizer experiment  is a good or bad example of how things can go rushing someone in to play the most important position in team sports.

[hoorta]

@domcucch1994 said:

Think about it..

Darnold-20

Rosen-21

Jackson-21

Mayfield-23

Not saying that he is old by any means, but for a prospect who is gonna sit and learn, you would think they would of taken someone a year or two younger..

My prediction is he is starting by week 8 if we are out of it. Gotta see what you have if Tyrod and Stanton can't produce.

Your thoughts?

That would be a poor reason (age)  by a year or two, to pass on a player. I don't know what the Browns were thinking taking a flyer on Brandon Weeden who was 29 when we drafted him...  

The plus is Mayfield is the only one of the  five that passes the Parcells test of # years as a starter. 

@tour2ma said:

Great question...

Assuming Mayfield is ready, i.e., knows the playbook, can get the playcalls out, can work from under Center and can make pre-snap reads, then once we are eliminated from the playoffs we can start looking for Baker to start.

But Mayfield has to be ready first.

We have 6 games after our Week 11 Bye Week... I think those are likely his.

Looking at the schedule, hard to predict the Browns record at the bye. The rose colored glasses folks could say 7-3, or the boo birds 3-7.  I'm seeing an 0-2 start Tour.   

[jcam222]

@tour2ma said:

Great question...

Assuming Mayfield is ready, i.e., knows the playbook, can get the playcalls out, can work from under Center and can make pre-snap reads, then once we are eliminated from the playoffs we can start looking for Baker to start.

But Mayfield has to be ready first.

We have 6 games after our Week 11 Bye Week... I think those are likely his.

IF he can do everything you say above AND overall move the offense better than Tyrod he is the day one starter