Jonathan Paul Manziel
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So do you feel more comfortable with Josh or Johnny playing next week?
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I was a Carr guy! LOL and we wouldn't have had to trade to get him
He would have fell in our lap! BUT we have Johnny(long live Mr.Foosball!)
We got him lets roll with him!!! GO BROWNS!!!
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I'll be disappointed if they don't start the kid next week honestly. I suspect many fans and media will be disappointed too.
I don't really think he's better than McCown at this point, but as long as he stays smart he gives us a chance to win. So I'd rather see the 22 y/o out there instead of the 36 y/o rent-a-QB who is probably gonna go to his 10th, 11th,12th (whatever) team after the seasons over.
agree with this. Probably not better than McCown as a whole, but exciting and developing. Would like to see what a whole season of him looks like. And then, if he doesn't shit his pants, give him the keys to see how it goes in 2016.I'll be disappointed if they don't start the kid next week honestly. I suspect many fans and media will be disappointed too.
I don't really think he's better than McCown at this point, but as long as he stays smart he gives us a chance to win. So I'd rather see the 22 y/o out there instead of the 36 y/o rent-a-QB who is probably gonna go to his 10th, 11th,12th (whatever) team after the seasons over.
If after 14 more games he's Charlie Frye and doesn't show any promise, cut bait then.
There are plenty of good reasons to not start him and give him more time to learn, but it appears he is further along than many of the people championing those reasons originally thought.
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I don't spend my Sunday's watching the Raiders, well, ever. But I do know Carr was graded by PFF at -32.6 last year which is truly awful as well as posting a -1.6 in week 1 (doing this on only 25 plays means you sucked).
I know the stats are there, but IIRC he led the league in passing attempts last year.
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The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride and when it all goes right you find yourself saying things like "amazing, holy shit, where'd that come from, didn't see that coming" etc. It brings the fun back into football for a fan base long on patience and short of having fun watching the game.
Yeah, there might be a wrong turn here and there, but no one can ever take away the joy of watching that little fucker escape a sure hard hit sack and thrown a dagger into the heart of the opponent at the perfect time in the game. Glad you all got to feel it.
I will never forget being at the Mo. game in 2012 with the Heisman on the line he went down with a knee injury just before halftime. The crowd went absolutely silent while he was down and then started the chant in unison, "Johnny, Johnny, Johnny" until he got up and slowly limped off the field. He returned with a knee brace and put on a show of TD's like I have never experienced "live" before.
Now on to the next game.
The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride...
You do realize how dangerous Carney rides are don't you?
Our difference is that I do care where it goes, but so long as the JM:JFF ratio stays at 17:1 or higher, I think I can handle a ride.
How long do you think you should wait?
49 in Dawg years?
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The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride...
You do realize how dangerous Carney rides are don't you?
Our difference is that I do care where it goes, but so long as the JM:JFF ratio stays at 17:1 or higher, I think I can handle a ride.
How long do you think you should wait?
49 in Dawg years?
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Well, we should require that you stay here for the next 49 years....as I have for the last 49....and sit quietly and learn and pay your dues.....before we should accept you into the fold.
But we won't be quite that harsh on allowing you to build up equity.
How long do you think you should wait?
What is the record (not counting Methuselah) for the longest living human being? I'm willing to accommodate.
PS-I waited from age 10 in 1957 when we got our first Heisman until 2012 when we got our second. So at least old dog does not have to learn a new trick.
What is the record (not counting Methuselah) for the longest living human being? I'm willing to accommodate.
PS-I waited from age 10 in 1957 when we got our first Heisman until 2012 when we got our second. So at least old dog does not have to learn a new trick.
You got to see JDC in person?! Awesome!
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So, this is kind of a fun battle. Carr is the QB who could have been, while Manziel is the QB who might just be.
There were many here that were absolutely in love with Carr...I was not one of those people. He absolutely blew me away last year, but it seems like he's coming down a bit this year.Carr won 2014 hands down, but their 2015's are a little closer. As it stands now, Carr has the upper hand ever so slightly, mostly due to the fact the Oakland has been airing the ball out over the last two games (30 att. per game vs. Johnny's 20 att. per game).
Honestly, people are shitting over missing out on Bridgewater, but Carr is physically the quintessential QB and we wouldn't have had to trade up to get him. I was anti-Carr, but he's showing that he might be a pretty good NFL QB. After last week, I have high hopes for Manziel as well, but I'll temper them for a few more weeks.
Regardless, it's kind of cool to see the stats between the two laid out visually.
As a side note, I've been using this tool for my daily fantasy leagues. There's some holes in it for sure, but it's a decent little tool to help with roster decisions. It's also free as shit.
Total baptism by fire for Carr last year and he survived despite the OAK HC mess.
This year under Del Rio/Musgrave he looks solid.
Watched both Raiders games so far this year since they were against AFCN teams.
Week 1 against CIN he was out early after his ill-advised stiff arm.
Week 2 vs BLT he was sharp.
Still primarily a short, quick pass QB which was one reason... IIRC... TCPO was not high on him... high number of completions behind the LOS.
This past Sunday I saw a few mid-range darts that impressed. He got a fairly fortunate do-over of an INT in the game winning drive.
One thing for sure... he's now the leader of the Raiders. A lot of sideline shots of O and D responding to him.
So, this is kind of a fun battle. Carr is the QB who could have been, while Manziel is the QB who might just be.
Regardless, it's kind of cool to see the stats between the two laid out visually.
Good way of phrasing "the battle" and the Tool is interesting. Do you just click two position players in a list and it drags up the appropriate stats?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So you see no chance that a developing, young QB, who just showed his first signs of real progress, could be ruined by getting handed the reins too early?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'd encourage you to put me on ignore. teeam
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Or what? you gonna throw a hissy fit and complain to your nearest gay bartender?
You -could- try not being such an arrogant ass.
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So you see no chance that a developing, young QB, who just showed his first signs of real progress, could be ruined by getting handed the reins too early?
So you see no chance that a developing, young QB, who just showed his first signs of real progress, could be ruined by getting handed the reins too early?
I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Johnny has so much talent that was spoiled by his entitled rich kid attitude. With his head on straight, he is going to do wonders. Against the Jets, I saw the Aggie Johnny including the fumbles. He learned quick that this ain't college. Last week more Heisman Johnny but he protected the ball. The kid is amazing and anyone who watched him in the SEC knows that.
We threw another SEC QB to the wolves many years ago, trouble was, back then we had no offensive line so anyone was committing suicide back there. Too bad we ruined Couch (he wore 2 also didn't he?)
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Pet in his 9-21 presser...
On continuing to start JM to see what he's got because we can't afford to wait another year... at least that's the jist of a fairly inaudible question...
Pet: "We are tasked with winning football games. And the decisions we make are what gives us the best opportunity to win this Sunday. I know that on the outside those things get brought into it.
We've already seen... circumstances have come about for us to get an evaluation of him. So we are not going to use a season and look at it that way... say "hey, we need to know." We think over the natural course of events we'll find out."
Begins with questions at ~05:20 mark of: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Mike_Pettine_Full_Press_Conference_921_/8eb69fca-a731-4d54-804b-4470ee490fe9
Seems kinda definitive...
EDIT: At 14:24 mark Pet gets asked a follow up on whether he feels he has to try to mitigate a QB controversy here... essence of answer was:
My concern is inside the building... if that's outside, nothing I can do about it.
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Flip better be drawing up some decoy plays with Benji clearing out and dragging two DB's with him and getting Gabriel in one on one. Would be nice to see someone hit him in stride this year instead of him having to turn around and field a lob...
More of the same from the defense. Hit Carr everytime he drops back to pass.
Johnny Phooseball... Hold onto the damn ball and we are good to go!
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What makes you think he has hairs on the back of his neck?
Agree that there's a shot this week that JM gets the start, but fan pressure will have nothing to do with the decision and the "hand over the season" odds just took it in the teeth.
Other thing that surprised me somewhat in the Presser was how negative Pet was concerning the fumbles. Went right to the two-game total and not just the 2 vs. the Titans.
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Around the 9:10 area of the presser Pet says concerning his interactions with JM in practice, "You love being around guys that have that it factor, that are competitors, that love to win, that love football that love talking about it."
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Never wanted him. I was a Bortles fan. And last year just burned. But once you become a Cleveland Brown there's zero reason not to root and cheer for you. Even more now that it looks like he's getting it together. I still don't know if he's the long term answer but he did enough on the field (and it sounds like he's doing it off the field as well) to make me want to see him stay in the starting line up.
It's a little bizzare. McCown didn't look bad preseason and that 1st drive but would he show more if he's back with the 1's? Pet seems obsessed with the ground and pound so maybe McCown would be the safer bet.
Screw it. Manziel has earned another home start. The crowd will be scary.
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The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride and when it all goes right you find yourself saying things like "amazing, holy shit, where'd that come from, didn't see that coming" etc. It brings the fun back into football for a fan base long on patience and short of having fun watching the game.
Yeah, there might be a wrong turn here and there, but no one can ever take away the joy of watching that little fucker escape a sure hard hit sack and thrown a dagger into the heart of the opponent at the perfect time in the game. Glad you all got to feel it.
I will never forget being at the Mo. game in 2012 with the Heisman on the line he went down with a knee injury just before halftime. The crowd went absolutely silent while he was down and then started the chant in unison, "Johnny, Johnny, Johnny" until he got up and slowly limped off the field. He returned with a knee brace and put on a show of TD's like I have never experienced "live" before.
Now on to the next game.
The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride and when it all goes right you find yourself saying things like "amazing, holy shit, where'd that come from, didn't see that coming" etc. It brings the fun back into football for a fan base long on patience and short of having fun watching the game.
Yeah, there might be a wrong turn here and there, but no one can ever take away the joy of watching that little fucker escape a sure hard hit sack and thrown a dagger into the heart of the opponent at the perfect time in the game. Glad you all got to feel it.
Now on to the next game.
OK, I hope you've come down from cloud nine by now.
The red is us Browns fans that have seen far too many flash in the pans. Eric Zeier, Kelly Holcomb, Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson. So us old cynics want to see more than one decent game.
Couple of items: Yup we won- which is better than losing. Nice bombs to Benji Johnny.
MHO- and around 90% of the voters in the ESPN Cleveland poll think Manziel earned the start against the Raiders. We know McCown isn't the future- and it greatly behooves the Browns to find out if JFF is. Pettine was noncommittal in his Press Conference today, and he's previously stated- there's only so much you can learn sitting on the bench. I've posted elsewhere- JFF apparently has had a lifestyle and attitude transplant- and it's showing up in his (vastly) improved play on the field. He still has a long way to go though.
FWIW, my co season ticket holder opined that Marcus Mariotta's ceiling is higher than Johnny's.
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What is the record (not counting Methuselah) for the longest living human being? I'm willing to accommodate.
PS-I waited from age 10 in 1957 when we got our first Heisman until 2012 when we got our second. So at least old dog does not have to learn a new trick.
You got to see JDC in person?! Awesome!
You got to see JDC in person?! Awesome!
Too dumb to understand it then, but yes I went to the 1956 first win ever over the Longhorns in Memorial Stadium in Austin. I was only 9 so I did not recall all the details other than it was high scoring for that era (34-21). Crow (HB) and Pardee (FB and LB) were unstoppable that day.
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The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride and when it all goes right you find yourself saying things like "amazing, holy shit, where'd that come from, didn't see that coming" etc. It brings the fun back into football for a fan base long on patience and short of having fun watching the game.
Yeah, there might be a wrong turn here and there, but no one can ever take away the joy of watching that little fucker escape a sure hard hit sack and thrown a dagger into the heart of the opponent at the perfect time in the game. Glad you all got to feel it.
Now on to the next game.
OK, I hope you've come down from cloud nine by now.
The red is us Browns fans that have seen far too many flash in the pans. Eric Zeier, Kelly Holcomb, Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson. So us old cynics want to see more than one decent game.
Couple of items: Yup we won- which is better than losing. Nice bombs to Benji Johnny.
MHO- and around 90% of the voters in the ESPN Cleveland poll think Manziel earned the start against the Raiders. We know McCown isn't the future- and it greatly behooves the Browns to find out if JFF is. Pettine was noncommittal in his Press Conference today, and he's previously stated- there's only so much you can learn sitting on the bench. I've posted elsewhere- JFF apparently has had a lifestyle and attitude transplant- and it's showing up in his (vastly) improved play on the field. He still has a long way to go though.
FWIW, my co season ticket holder opined that Marcus Mariotta's ceiling is higher than Johnny's.
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Faded said:
I think he likes Manziel, and likes things about Manziel. He just can't quite accept that, after clawing his way up through the coaching ranks, starting with an 8 year high school stint, to assume his position as one of the chosen 32 NFL elite, that now he has to tie his fortunes to this unpredictable, devil-may-care kid who hasn't quite been able to clear up his acne yet, but thinks nothing about heaving a 50 yard improvisation with the game on the line.
Most of these guys are control freaks, or they wouldn't have gotten to where they are.
LOL-Sumlin can be his empathetic counselor. He had the same reservations with that redshirt freshman, but took a chance over a more established soph (now on the Dallas PS). All it got Sumlin was the best A&M season record and highest ranking since Bear Bryant days in the 50's and a Heisman QB that has landed him not 1, but three 5***** rated QB's spaced one year apart. Oh, and a little ole trophy from whipping up on his Oklahoma mentor in the Cotton Bowl with a new $5mil per year contract to boot.
At least Pet has come to call it "Vintage Manziel" and can admit there is actually something called "an IT factor".
Farve was exactly the same and was JM's idol growing up.
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