Jonathan Paul Manziel
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In his fifth start Manziel throws the fourth highest yards on the road and the tenth overall for the Browns (I think I read that right). McCown also has made history this season with three consecutive games of over 300 yards so our QBs are doing well. Manziel is only 20 with 5 career starts so he gets my vote for the next game. He is also great to watch. If only our defense was good!
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In his fifth start Manziel throws the fourth highest yards on the road and the tenth overall for the Browns (I think I read that right). McCown also has made history this season with three consecutive games of over 300 yards so our QBs are doing well. Manziel is only 20 with 5 career starts so he gets my vote for the next game. He is also great to watch. If only our defense was good!
In his fifth start Manziel throws the fourth highest yards on the road and the tenth overall for the Browns (I think I read that right). McCown also has made history this season with three consecutive games of over 300 yards so our QBs are doing well. Manziel is only 20 with 5 career starts so he gets my vote for the next game. He is also great to watch. If only our defense was good!
Good points. The only slight correction needed is Manziel is 22 with only 5 starts. It's a little premature to make final conclusions on his 3rd or 4th start as all those Dallas Cowboy fans once learned when they were certain Steve Walsh was the future of their franchise while Troy Aikman was allegedly a bum. Tampa Bay fans made the same conclusions about every single QB they had who went elsewhere to either make Pro Bowls, playoffs or both.
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Why does Erving think 1st and 11 is better than 2nd and 2? He is terrible. Farmer should be gone tomorrow along with oniel.
We drafted him for his play at center and his ability to play other positions. We overestimated the loss of Alex Mack last season. Yes cam was shaking in his first start at guard, the position is played the least at. So fucking what?Why does Erving think 1st and 11 is better than 2nd and 2? He is terrible. Farmer should be gone tomorrow along with oniel.
Who would you have started instead?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
The only thing I can say about yesterday at this point is that if you did not see real hope for the future in the QB position (notice that I did not say guarantees, just hope), then just consider yourself a hater. He does more of what they want out of him from week to week. A great deal of his dancing around was within the pocket while looking for receivers unless the play called for more movement. His passes were hard and fast and most of the time on target. 33 of 45 372 yds. 1 INT on 4th down, 3 dropped TD passes, one fucked up ruling on the TD he ran for, and last but not least all with the smallest receiving corps in the NFL. And he only ran it 3 times for 17 yds.
Yep, either Farmer or Pettine has to go. One or both is fucking this royally. What should be the strength of this team is now it's real weakness. All with a defensive minded HC. And just pray our badboy WR returns for a full year and becomes a real tandem on the field with our badboy QB. We could do far worse.
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Need to start turning all that passing yardage into points.
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If benjamin doesn't drop that TD we're back in business, to be fair. If Erving doesn't hold, Crowell probably still scores.
Many problems on the day, Manziel (surprisingly) was not one. Or, at least, was far from the biggest.
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If benjamin doesn't drop that TD we're back in business, to be fair. If Erving doesn't hold, Crowell probably still scores.
Many problems on the day, Manziel (surprisingly) was not one. Or, at least, was far from the biggest.
If benjamin doesn't drop that TD we're back in business, to be fair. If Erving doesn't hold, Crowell probably still scores.
Many problems on the day, Manziel (surprisingly) was not one. Or, at least, was far from the biggest.
A little bit of everything yesterday, eh?....
The irony(or bad luck) is that it all happened on the day that Johnny AND the run D finally showed up.....thats a shame...
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Look, I'm not saying we would've won the game or anything, but Johnny got into the damn end zone on that amazing scramble, and shame on the refs for not having the BALLS to make that call. And as typical Browns luck would have it, the ONE CAMERA ANGLE that could've helped us had a Steeler player directly in front of it. I mean, what are the damn odds of that? Still, it was obvious that he broke the plane of the goal line. Travis Benjamin dropping that TD pass was almost criminal. Johnny did an excellent job of selling the play by looking left, not getting happy feet, and then firing a dart directly into the bread basket of Benji, only to have him completely screw it up. Oh, and he's been our best WR this season. Just ridiculous. I'm angry for Manziel that he didn't get those two extra touchdowns. He DESERVED them. He took several shots behind an ineffective OL, a vicious facemask penalty that should've been an ejection, yet still delivered accurate pass after accurate pass. Was he perfect? Of course not. We still should've figured out ways to score more points, and that's been our problem all damn year. Red zone scoring is ABSOLUTELY pathetic.
Many analysts, including our own radio guys, said Manziel couldn't be effective if he had to throw the ball 40+ times a game. The diagram was supposed to be like the Titans game, where he throws it around 20 times, we have a solid running game, and our defense controls the contest. But that wasn't the case. Yes, I completely realize that Pittsburgh was playing somewhat soft, but Johnny still had to make the plays that were there and take what the defense gave him. For the most part, his accuracy was terrific, and his velocity would make several other starters envious. The only way to get better is to play the game, and hopefully this is a big step for him.
The problem is, we don't have any playmakers on offense. I mean, we really don't. And now Gabriel (who hasn't done anything) and Hawkins (also has not done anything) are both out with concussions. Bowe isn't even worth mentioning. Who we gonna throw the ball to? Hartline, Benji, and Barnidge? And who else? I hate to mention his name again, but just imagine having Josh Gordon. What I would really like to see is our organization making a statement saying we have every intent of having Gordon back in a Browns uniform, and they have faith in his ability to conform to NFL rules. If it's not obvious how badly we need him back, I don't know what is.
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The only thing I can say about yesterday at this point is that if you did not see real hope for the future in the QB position (notice that I did not say guarantees, just hope), then just consider yourself a hater. He does more of what they want out of him from week to week. A great deal of his dancing around was within the pocket while looking for receivers unless the play called for more movement. His passes were hard and fast and most of the time on target. 33 of 45 372 yds. 1 INT on 4th down, 3 dropped TD passes, one fucked up ruling on the TD he ran for, and last but not least all with the smallest receiving corps in the NFL. And he only ran it 3 times for 17 yds.
Yep, either Farmer or Pettine has to go. One or both is fucking this royally. What should be the strength of this team is now it's real weakness. All with a defensive minded HC. And just pray our badboy WR returns for a full year and becomes a real tandem on the field with our badboy QB. We could do far worse.
The only thing I can say about yesterday at this point is that if you did not see real hope for the future in the QB position (notice that I did not say guarantees, just hope), then just consider yourself a hater. He does more of what they want out of him from week to week. A great deal of his dancing around was within the pocket while looking for receivers unless the play called for more movement. His passes were hard and fast and most of the time on target. 33 of 45 372 yds. 1 INT on 4th down, 3 dropped TD passes, one fucked up ruling on the TD he ran for, and last but not least all with the smallest receiving corps in the NFL. And he only ran it 3 times for 17 yds.
Yep, either Farmer or Pettine has to go. One or both is fucking this royally. What should be the strength of this team is now it's real weakness. All with a defensive minded HC. And just pray our badboy WR returns for a full year and becomes a real tandem on the field with our badboy QB. We could do far worse.
Having thought about it this morning, what stands out for me yesterday for the way Manziel played yesterday vs. say the Cincinatti start last year was that he made some plays..made some throws that make me think he could turn into the QB we all are hoping he can be so that we don't need to draft a QB. The guy that started that Cincinatti game last year did nothing to make you think he would last in the NFL. Yesterday was a whole different look (as he was for the first half of the cincy game). I thought he was going to shit the bed after that first play yesterday and he recovered nicely from it. We still need to convert all those yards into points but at least he played well. I'm hoping he starts against Baltimore and puts up good numbers at home on a MNF game. He should be able to because the Rats defense isn't all that good as long as we have some receivers to throw to that know what their names are by then.
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We drafted him for his play at center and his ability to play other positions. We overestimated the loss of Alex Mack last season. Yes cam was shaking in his first start at guard, the position is played the least at. So fucking what?Why does Erving think 1st and 11 is better than 2nd and 2? He is terrible. Farmer should be gone tomorrow along with oniel.
Who would you have started instead?
WSS
We drafted him for his play at center and his ability to play other positions. We overestimated the loss of Alex Mack last season. Yes cam was shaking in his first start at guard, the position is played the least at. So fucking what?
Who would you have started instead?
WSS
It's a total catch 22 from some people around here....we need to play the rookies and then they bitch about them when they play. As you said....he had very little experience at that position so it was bound to be a bumpy road. He held his own early in the game and then it kinda went down hill from there for him but hell, he got some game experience and hopefully next time out will be better.
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And now he's 1-2 so again...its not the fucking QB that is the problem. The 36 year old QB wasn't the problem that was the point. Why bench a QB who is playing well? Because the team is losing? Ok...your boyfriend Hoorta just said losing out the season is possible. So if Johnny starts all those games what will his record be as a starter? So we should get rid of him at that point right because its all about wins and losses right? That's what everyone who wanted to bench McCown for Manziel was saying. What do we do if we lose another couple? Does Manziel get benched for Davis? Maybe we can bring back Shaw to start then at that point.
The QB is not the problem with this team. Doesn't damn matter if it's McCown or Manziel. No different. Give up 30 a game and it's going to be really hard to win a whole lot.
Mark calm down- you're right, it really doesn't matter at this point if McCown or Manziel starts. I put it in the thread I started- the losing has finally gotten to me, I refuse to get upset anymore this year about another loss- whoever is to blame, and there's plenty to go around- again. If Pettine values winning games at the expense of developing young talent, well draw your conclusions. I think I posted elsewhere our "best talent" is now 2-8, and on track for the first pick in the 2016 draft. That's the reality Mark- sorry if you refuse to believe it. McCown isn't going to improve- and he's not winning games. Smart teams develop young talent, by playing it. Especially when the season is in the toilet.
Got any explanations why Pettine is playing Bademosi who on a good day can't cover the other teams #4 wideout, and got matched up against Antonio TD Brown? Instead of playing Gilbert? Why he's benching Bowe? Why his stellar defense can't get any effective pressure on the opposing qb?
I said it in another thread- if it's Farmer that isn't supplying the talent- he needs to go. If Pettine is misusing the talent he's been supplied- well take a hike. If it's both- nuke the entire mess, and start over again.
Got any explanations why Pettine is playing Bademosi who on a good day can't cover the other teams #4 wideout, and got matched up against Antonio TD Brown? Instead of playing Gilbert? Why he's benching Bowe? Why his stellar defense can't get any effective pressure on the opposing qb?
I said it in another thread- if it's Farmer that isn't supplying the talent- he needs to go. If Pettine is misusing the talent he's been supplied- well take a hike. If it's both- nuke the entire mess, and start over again.
No...I wish I did. Hopefully someone asks him that question whenever he meets with the media.
I'm not in favor of blowing it up and starting over. I'm surprised that there won't be any changes during the bye week, even to a coordinator position just to make some sort of statement. I think what that says to me is...Haslam is staying the course with these guys and they'll all be back next year or he's already decided that he's going to nuke it all and start over so what's the point of firing someone midseason.
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I definitely gotta give Johnny his props for playing an improved game over last week....Ive been hard on him, so hes earned a week off from the negativity....
I will say, however, that he wasnt spectacular or anything. But improved, His best game, BY FAR, since he's become a Brown. And I think he should get more starts(which Ive agreed with all along).....
What I DID notice is that he FINALLY stayed in the pocket this week....and, coincidentally, had his best game..... So, that does add to the long standing argument that he needs to refine his game to be successful in the NFL....and that, just letting him "be Johnny" is not the answer....
So, whether its Pettine or Marv Lewis who want him in the pocket....it seems thats where he needs to be to get er done....
So....1 good start, preceded by a number of pretty bad ones isnt enough to convince me that he's the guy....but Id say he should be the guy for the balance and lets get it figured out "THIS YEAR".....so we dont have to endure another season of questions
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I definitely gotta give Johnny his props for playing an improved game over last week....Ive been hard on him, so hes earned a week off from the negativity....
I will say, however, that he wasnt spectacular or anything. But improved, His best game, BY FAR, since he's become a Brown. And I think he should get more starts(which Ive agreed with all along).....
What I DID notice is that he FINALLY stayed in the pocket this week....and, coincidentally, had his best game..... So, that does add to the long standing argument that he needs to refine his game to be successful in the NFL....and that, just letting him "be Johnny" is not the answer....
So, whether its Pettine or Marv Lewis who want him in the pocket....it seems thats where he needs to be to get er done....
So....1 good start, preceded by a number of pretty bad ones isnt enough to convince me that he's the guy....but Id say he should be the guy for the balance and lets get it figured out "THIS YEAR".....so we dont have to endure another season of questions
So, whether its Pettine or Marv Lewis who want him in the pocket....it seems thats where he needs to be to get er done....
So....1 good start, preceded by a number of pretty bad ones isnt enough to convince me that he's the guy....but Id say he should be the guy for the balance and lets get it figured out "THIS YEAR".....so we dont have to endure another season of questions
I completely agree.
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I definitely gotta give Johnny his props for playing an improved game over last week....Ive been hard on him, so hes earned a week off from the negativity....
I will say, however, that he wasnt spectacular or anything. But improved, His best game, BY FAR, since he's become a Brown. And I think he should get more starts(which Ive agreed with all along).....
What I DID notice is that he FINALLY stayed in the pocket this week....and, coincidentally, had his best game..... So, that does add to the long standing argument that he needs to refine his game to be successful in the NFL....and that, just letting him "be Johnny" is not the answer....
So, whether its Pettine or Marv Lewis who want him in the pocket....it seems thats where he needs to be to get er done....
So....1 good start, preceded by a number of pretty bad ones isnt enough to convince me that he's the guy....but Id say he should be the guy for the balance and lets get it figured out "THIS YEAR".....so we dont have to endure another season of questions
What I DID notice is that he FINALLY stayed in the pocket this week....and, coincidentally, had his best game..... So, that does add to the long standing argument that he needs to refine his game to be successful in the NFL....and that, just letting him "be Johnny" is not the answer....
So, whether its Pettine or Marv Lewis who want him in the pocket....it seems thats where he needs to be to get er done....
I know the general concensus around this board is to fire Pettine, but the guy was correct about Johnny staying in the pocket.
If he can be a pocket passer, and also throw on the run to extend a play he's going to give some DC's nightmares.
Especially if we can get him some top notch receivers over 6' tall.
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Well, I was able to catch much of the game.
Johnny was not the problem. No help from the run game, receivers still dropping balls, so many penalties, defense under-performing... To say anything negative about Johnny's performance yesterday is just basically admitting you don't like him.
On the bright side, Johnny has turned a corner. He looked confident and in control yesterday, even when faced with 2nd n 14, or receivers dropping crucial passes.
He is just gonna get better. I admit, last season looked bad, then rehab, but he just threw for 370 in his fifth start. 70+ completion %. Against Pittsburgh. The kid can play. If he continues to get better, he will become a leader, and hopefully start getting wins.
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Well, I was able to catch much of the game.
Johnny was not the problem. No help from the run game, receivers still dropping balls, so many penalties, defense under-performing... To say anything negative about Johnny's performance yesterday is just basically admitting you don't like him.
On the bright side, Johnny has turned a corner. He looked confident and in control yesterday, even when faced with 2nd n 14, or receivers dropping crucial passes.
He is just gonna get better. I admit, last season looked bad, then rehab, but he just threw for 370 in his fifth start. 70+ completion %. Against Pittsburgh. The kid can play. If he continues to get better, he will become a leader, and hopefully start getting wins.
Well, I was able to catch much of the game.
Johnny was not the problem. No help from the run game, receivers still dropping balls, so many penalties, defense under-performing... To say anything negative about Johnny's performance yesterday is just basically admitting you don't like him.
On the bright side, Johnny has turned a corner. He looked confident and in control yesterday, even when faced with 2nd n 14, or receivers dropping crucial passes.
He is just gonna get better. I admit, last season looked bad, then rehab, but he just threw for 370 in his fifth start. 70+ completion %. Against Pittsburgh. The kid can play. If he continues to get better, he will become a leader, and hopefully start getting wins.
Completely agree he wasn't the problem. Was even one of the very few bright spots yesterday.
I hope you're right and he's just gonna get better. I think we'll see him against the Ravens on MNF and that should be a good spot for him. At home against a crappy Ravens team and 2 weeks to prepare.
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I want to see the production equate to points on the board. Against TN we won in spite of manziel, with his fumbles, <50% completion etc. Against Pitt we lost but manziel had great production. Now I want to see both.
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Well, I was able to catch much of the game.
Johnny was not the problem. No help from the run game, receivers still dropping balls, so many penalties, defense under-performing... To say anything negative about Johnny's performance yesterday is just basically admitting you don't like him.
On the bright side, Johnny has turned a corner. He looked confident and in control yesterday, even when faced with 2nd n 14, or receivers dropping crucial passes.
He is just gonna get better. I admit, last season looked bad, then rehab, but he just threw for 370 in his fifth start. 70+ completion %. Against Pittsburgh. The kid can play. If he continues to get better, he will become a leader, and hopefully start getting wins.
Completely agree he wasn't the problem. Was even one of the very few bright spots yesterday.
I hope you're right and he's just gonna get better. I think we'll see him against the Ravens on MNF and that should be a good spot for him. At home against a crappy Ravens team and 2 weeks to prepare.
Completely agree he wasn't the problem. Was even one of the very few bright spots yesterday.
I hope you're right and he's just gonna get better. I think we'll see him against the Ravens on MNF and that should be a good spot for him. At home against a crappy Ravens team and 2 weeks to prepare.
Well, I understand I'm coming from a point of view that most Browns fans hate - a Johnny fanboy... It sucks to lose like that to the Steelers, and there's a lot that needs fixing, but Johnny looks light years better. And there's no reason to think he won't continue to improve.
And yes, he's small, but he rarely has balls batted down, and he's a tough sob. He took a beating yesterday, but never quit. Hopefully the Browns turn things around, and I hope Johnny is part of it.
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I want to see the production equate to points on the board. Against TN we won in spite of manziel, with his fumbles, <50% completion etc. Against Pitt we lost but manziel had great production. Now I want to see both.
I want to see the production equate to points on the board. Against TN we won in spite of manziel, with his fumbles, <50% completion etc. Against Pitt we lost but manziel had great production. Now I want to see both.
TN game, Johnny did ok, but the team played better. Defense was great, and run game was good. Yesterday, and vs. cincy, receivers dropped td passes, run game was bad. Even the refs screwed up the Johnny run that should have been a td. QB can't control that.
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