Jonathan Paul Manziel
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But he wears a glove on his throwing hand, and reportedly looked pretty inaccurate in his pro day without it... Plus, it's a different football in size and shape. Small hand size is a problem in the pros especially when the weather changes in Nov-Dec... Can "the glove" get it done in Cleveland?? He did pretty well in college, so only time would tell.
He does wear a glove....and he did have a bad pro day -Does he have smaller hands than Johnny Manzel and Blake Bortles...yes.. I am not sure what the cut off is for having small hands is, but Teddy's are 9 1/4 inch hands
Gloves: if they help wear them if they take away - don't wear them... for everyone who says the greats don't need to there are examples like Kurt Warner, Brady, Manning even Big Ben who have worn them...
Hand size is the "prisoner of the moment" stat of the year: Hoyer has 9 1/2 inch hands,Colin Kapernick has 9 inches, Vick 8 1/2 inch..oh and Weeden had 9 3/5 inches, Couch 9 7/8 inches, Brees has 10'1 inch hands - the proving future success with past success/failures of other people can go either way.
My point of all this is to say that there are always examples of people who have done this or done that with these measurements/stats/preferences or those ...but what really matters IMO is when a QB can demonstrate on film that he can read a defense, make good decisions and can physically make the throws to win a game - IMO Teddy does those things better than anyone in the draft and it is not close.
Bortles is a measurement guy who wasn't asked to read defenses or call audibles (not saying he couldn't) - Manzel is a swag guy who was really exciting to watch especially in broken plays...but those broken plays were often the result of him not checking down or hitting the open receiver... Teddy is an offensive coordinator playing QB type of guy...in fact he called the majority of Lousiville's plays this year from the line... I'll take Teddy over Manzel/Bortles all day.
Hand size is the "prisoner of the moment" stat of the year: Hoyer has 9 1/2 inch hands,Colin Kapernick has 9 inches, Vick 8 1/2 inch..oh and Weeden had 9 3/5 inches, Couch 9 7/8 inches, Brees has 10'1 inch hands - the proving future success with past success/failures of other people can go either way.My point of all this is to say that there are always examples of people who have done this or done that with these measurements/stats/preferences or those ...but what really matters IMO is when a QB can demonstrate on film that he can read a defense, make good decisions and can physically make the throws to win a game - IMO Teddy does those things better than anyone in the draft and it is not close.
Bortles is a measurement guy who wasn't asked to read defenses or call audibles (not saying he couldn't) - Manzel is a swag guy who was really exciting to watch especially in broken plays...but those broken plays were often the result of him not checking down or hitting the open receiver... Teddy is an offensive coordinator playing QB type of guy...in fact he called the majority of Lousiville's plays this year from the line... I'll take Teddy over Manzel/Bortles all day.
So would I. (regarding Bridgewater).
On his pro day Bridgewater shit the bed. He can blame it on his glove, no glove, hand lotion, it was cold, whatever, but he folded like a cheap umbrella under the pressure, no thanks. Manziel came in there and crushed it on his pro day, the kid smiled and looked like he was born to do it and was having fun. There is a guy like Bortles every year that looks the part and has all the measurables and rises up the draft boards, but he played for a small school in a shit conference and we are supposed to believe this guy is a franchise qb? Maybe, but it is a longshot, and he is so raw he is 2-3 years away.
I couldn't care less how many cheerleaders he banged or beers JF drank. I've watched a lot of games and the dude has the killer competitive fire with some special skills. Sure, I wish he was a couple inches taller too, but he isn't. IMO, he has the highest upside of the top three qb's.
We have to swing at a qb at 4, or higher this year. This year we are drafting at 4 with an extra #1 pick in our pocket. No more second level prospects later in the draft please. Enough Brady Quinn and Colt McCoys. Enough passing on top qb prospects to grab the shiny hood ornaments like Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow. Every pick is a risk. People had questions about Roethlisberger and Rogers at the time they were drafted too.
Yeah we got Hoyer. He looked the best of the garbage we had at qb last year. But he is coming off major knee reconstruction and has been cut by three teams and I'm supposed to believe this is the guy to take us to the super bowl. Do you think Farmer and Pettine are going to stake their careers on that? Good way to get fired, I don't know, maybe on the way home after the last game. That could never happen, right?
Guess what, if we bust on a qb at 4, we will be drafting in the same area next year and you take another one until you get it right. Look at how many qb's Seattle went through before Wilson, they just kept swinging at it until they got it right. We are never going to win till we have our guy at QB. I hope we get Johnny, it really could change everything. You have to take a chance at greatness. Or maybe you draft some offensive lineman and a reciever because JF was just too much of a risk and we can win 4-6 games again next year.
So let's toss a guy out of consideration because he had a bad Pro Day, and had an overall terrific career? There's been a legion of guys who had terrific Pro Days and turned into monumental busts. Vernon Gholston anyone? So Johnny Football killed it on his Pro Day, whatever. On a superficial level yes- but look a little deeper into the scouting reports guy. He threw damn few crossing patterns the whole workout, and lazy ones at that. That's why Farmer passed on showing up- he's smart enough to know you're going to primarily show off what you do best- quick & deep outs aren't the only throws you have to make in the NFL.
Um, the Seahawks got Wilson in the third round. ditto for the Eagles with Foles. SF Kaep in the second. Bungles Dalton in the second. Maybe you aren't listening to the pundits this year, but I am. More than a few of them have said there isn't any first round talent in the quarterback class this year. Reaching for a qb if the talent isn't there is patently stupid, (doubly with potentially guys like Clowney and Watkins on the board) and I'll trust Farmer and Pettine to pass on one at #4 if that's the case. Smart drafting beats closing your eyes, swinging for the fences and hoping you connect every time. Regarding Manziel, no one knows at this point if his skills will translate to the NFL. JF won a lot of games in college- so did Colt McCoy- don't forget Colt won the Davey O'Brien award for best college qb,either.
One last thing- I finally got to see some tape on Carr last night- no thanks. The guy's mechanics go straight in the toilet the second he senses any pressure.
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Farmer may not be saying it, but Jimmy Haslam....or Jimmy Haslam's wife whose career is publicity may be thinking that.
And yes, being a publicity hound can only take you so far.
Tebow is a good example though. He was taken far, far, far ahead of his talent for publicity sake.
He proves my point exactly.....and yours at the same time.
Tebow was drafted in the first round but was actually the Bronco's 2nd 1st round pick (D. Thomas was their first) in which they used a few draft picks to move down. This was done because McDaniels thought he could be coached in his system and a great player...not for publicity..
You are putting way to much stock in the value of publicity IMO , I do not think it makes sense for an NFL team.
The Browns will have multiple night games this year (like they had the year after the 10-6 season) because they have a lot of young talent and buzz.
Haslem does not strike me as one who is going to step on anyone's toes on drafting a player. Even at his wife's request:)
Tebow was drafted in the first round but was actually the Bronco's 2nd 1st round pick (D. Thomas was their first) in which they used a few draft picks to move down. This was done because McDaniels thought he could be coached in his system and a great player...not for publicity..
You are putting way to much stock in the value of publicity IMO , I do not think it makes sense for an NFL team.
The Browns will have multiple night games this year (like they had the year after the 10-6 season) because they have a lot of young talent and buzz.
Haslem does not strike me as one who is going to step on anyone's toes on drafting a player. Even at his wife's request:)
I would hope you are absolutely correct, that NFL teams would only make choices on pure football reasoning. But, the Eagles just let go of an outstanding Pro Bowl WR in the prime of his career.....based almost 100% on reasons of publicity.
There, they wanted to avoid bad publicity. So don't tell me it is never done.
If it is done to avoid bad publicity, it can....and is...also done for positive publicity reasons.
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Some peoples hate for Johnny Football amazes me. I really hope we get him and he makes you all look like shit.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
If we get him then i also hope he makes me look like shit... even though i don't need any help in that dept. If he's good i'll put his pic under my name, even if he sucks i'll still do it to be ironic.
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Some peoples hate for Johnny Football amazes me. I really hope we get him and he makes you all look like shit.
Some peoples hate for Johnny Football amazes me. I really hope we get him and he makes you all look like shit.
because he's a smart ass little punk, that's why, who's had everything spoon fed to him his whole life. does he have natural talent and a great desire to win? yes. does 85% of the kids in the draft have that same desire? yes.
i don't hate the kid, i wish he'd grow up and have a little more humility. i mean i dare him to do the money sign thing to someone in the NFL or his back talk to some DE. you might as well have a spot marked down for him on the IR as soon as you put him on the field.
if we drafted him i wouldn't hate it, like i wouldn't hate anyone, until it became clear the person can't play at the NFL level and was a total waste of a pick.
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Tebow was a projected third rounder, who some people wanted to play a different position. Manziel is a 1st round talent. Everyone knew Tebow couldnt throw.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Tebow was a projected third rounder, who some people wanted to play a different position. Manziel is a 1st round talent. Everyone knew Tebow couldnt throw.
There are lots of projections on Manziel that have him as a 3rd or 4th round talent ... He's not a unanimous 1st rounder, just like Tebow wasn't unanimous either.
Round projection is based in opinion. Farmer may be of the opinion that Manziel is worthy of #4 or he may be of the opinion that he got bailed out by Evans, can't read a defense, can't handle a blitz and is maybe a 3rd round pick. Thus his projection is born.
Manziel could be awesome. In of te opinion that those odds are less likely than they are with Watkins, Clowney, Mack, Bortles and even Evans.
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@mike-h said:
So much hyperbole, it burns my eyes.
All depends on who you want to listen to, Mike. Yeah, I just heard McShea say this class is deeper that last years with Gino Smith & company- but that's not saying much. Or maybe you'd like to refute my statement there's more than a couple of current starting NFL qbs that weren't drafted in the top 10, much less the first round? Want to ignore Walter Football has mocked us (and I do mean mock-ed) us to Johnny Football at #26?
I said I'd lay off the Manziel bashing- and take it FWIW, I'm not bashing JF, just reporting what I've heard of late. Plenty of guys with way more cred than me that don't like the guy.
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Some peoples hate for Johnny Football amazes me. I really hope we get him and he makes you all look like shit.
Some peoples hate for Johnny Football amazes me. I really hope we get him and he makes you all look like shit.
OK, I hope he totally blows out his knee in the first preseason game (playing for a team other than the Browns) , and winds up like Ki-Jana Carter that enough HATE for you?
OTOH the blind love for a guy who plays in a gimmicky offense with gimmicky skills and off field questions I hope he makes all of YOU look like shit. Is everybody happy now?
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Manziel is a very talented knucklehead that should go
with a team that needs to put fans in the seats.
Like the Jags or Texans. Or Oakland. Some team with
nice warm weather, and maybe a dome.
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Manziel is a very talented knucklehead that should go
with a team that needs to put fans in the seats.
Like the Jags or Texans. Or Oakland. Some team with
nice warm weather, and maybe a dome.
Manziel is a very talented knucklehead that should go
with a team that needs to put fans in the seats.
Like the Jags or Texans. Or Oakland. Some team with
nice warm weather, and maybe a dome.
Yup Cal, you draft Johnny Football © , you bring the circus into town along with him. Apparently ESPN needs a new circus venue now that RG III has flamed out for the moment.
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Weather is a non factor. You can acclimate to any weather condition. Doesn't matter where you were born.
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Weather is a non factor. You can acclimate to any weather condition. Doesn't matter where you were born.
Weather is a non factor. You can acclimate to any weather condition. Doesn't matter where you were born.
Hell yeah, just watch Cool Runnings.
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tick tock.
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@mike-h said:
Looks like JF can't read defenses or make throws from the pocket.
I WILL concede that durability is a little bit of a concern, but the more ACTUAL football you watch, the more the myths begin to disappear.
He is who he is, let's see if the Browns are willing to invest in him or any of the other QBs. If not, it better be Watkins and not an OL or another OLB.
Farmer will make the correct pick, as he has forgotten more about football than any of us know, including myself and you.
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@mike-h said:
I feel it. Love Farmer now, we'll see how we all feel in two years.
how about in 33 days?
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@mike-h said:
Looks like JF can't read defenses or make throws from the pocket.
I WILL concede that durability is a little bit of a concern, but the more ACTUAL football you watch, the more the myths begin to disappear.
He is who he is, let's see if the Browns are willing to invest in him or any of the other QBs. If not, it better be Watkins and not an OL or another OLB.
Why let facts get in the way, ya know.
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2012/10/23/3541460/lsu-blitzing-off-edge-flusters-manziel-offense
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/86640/gruden-qb-camp-johnny-manziel
You can post as many highlight reels as you want too. Every player going to the draft has some sort of highlight reel. If scouts and teams drafted off highlight reels they wouldn't be around very long.
He could be great but he has incredible amounts of work to do in reading a defense (read article 1 and 2), having pocket awareness (read 2 and 3), picking up a blitz (read 1 and 4), QB mechanics (read 2) and as you stated durability issues.
No, he didn't fuck my girlfriend I just do not think he is very good. We draft him I hope he proves me wrong.
I mean, or, ya know, watch youtube.
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wow you've turned into a complete dick this off-season.
must be all the sun and roids.
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Hemo or ster??
it took me a sec but i just got it. LMAO!!
the guy's trying to give his opinion about somethin and get's called 'fuckface' for it.
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