Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I won't defend a lot of JM's self-destructive behavior. But I also will not defend Pettine's asinine way of dealing with him from day one. There is plenty of evidence for both of those things. So the Browns do the right thing and rid themselves of both and throw in the crappy GM to boot. I'm fine with it all. Turn the page.
I won't defend a lot of JM's self-destructive behavior. But I also will not defend Pettine's asinine way of dealing with him from day one. There is plenty of evidence for both of those things. So the Browns do the right thing and rid themselves of both and throw in the crappy GM to boot. I'm fine with it all. Turn the page.
Ag, absolutely perfectly stated!
Mike
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I'm sure Johnny is done as a Brown & support his being gone even though I was once a huge supporter of his. What I simply can't agree with is some saying the kid has little or no ability to play NFL football. He may have many other issues, but lack of talent isn't one of them.
Time to move on for all concerned.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
VesnaKociper said:
I said it before and I will say it again. Different personalities need different management. Corey Dillon was a head case..........but not for Belichik. Why?
My problem with the entire Manziel situation is that the kid was never given a manifesto, not really. Every time he farted, someone was there to correct him, shove a camera up his ass, bench him and write stories about him. I wouldn't be to enthusiastic about that kind of a job either.
What Cleveland is missing, is something they have missed over and over, and continue to miss. Not every NFL player is a perfect gentleman, completely driven by self determination and good, solid values. Some players can just play football, and their personal shit is fucked up. You can say whatever you want, but I don't believe the organization ever connected with this kid and got him to buy in to any specific plan going forward.
So, bitch all you want about how immature he is, what a head case he is, and anything else you want to blast him about. If I own the Browns, I am going to make damned sure that I can't get him on the same page, so that I can use my draft picks for offensive weapons other than QB. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that this fucktard is going to play somewhere else, and if he gets a Belichik type coach, one who knows how to focus on football and not bullshit, the Browns will life to have a red ass at letting yet another good player away.
I have seen enough to know that JM has more skills than any QB that Browns have drafted since 1999. If you are sure we have done a great job harvesting his best effort, by all means hate the kid. Me? I think he is a very good QB waiting for the right system.
a belechik type coach would not want him. The dude has issues. He will never be a pocket passer anyway as he is way too small., so if he continues to scramble, it is just a matter of time the little dude gets crushed like a cockroach.
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It was all timing, Mike. Hoyer was the better Browns QB to start 2014. That was our... ummm... debate. If being right about something we never discussed makes you feel better, then be my guest.
It was all timing, Mike. Hoyer was the better Browns QB to start 2014. That was our... ummm... debate. If being right about something we never discussed makes you feel better, then be my guest.
the only thing in common as i can figure out was hoyer ended up in the same situation as he did with cleveland in houston. There is now way any qb can be good with the constant changing qb's every other week. That is what happened in houston...there is just no way you get any continuity and the worse thing is you become under severe pressure knowing 1 mistake will cost you next weeks starting position...happened in cleveland and it happened in houston. I actually thought it was worse in cleveland because, I think that the blockhead owner who may have pressured the gm to draft manziel, wanted him to play immediately. I know this happened because you draft a qb at 22, these days, he better be in the starting lineup or your fo is going to hear it...Problem was hoyer was playing pretty good and manziel could not beat him out until the fucking hounds started barking for manziel to play for no good fucking reason at all...and we know how that turned out, don't we...
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I'm sure Johnny is done as a Brown & support his being gone even though I was once a huge supporter of his. What I simply can't agree with is some saying the kid has little or no ability to play NFL football. He may have many other issues, but lack of talent isn't one of them.
Time to move on for all concerned.
Mike
I'm sure Johnny is done as a Brown & support his being gone even though I was once a huge supporter of his. What I simply can't agree with is some saying the kid has little or no ability to play NFL football. He may have many other issues, but lack of talent isn't one of them.
Time to move on for all concerned.
Mike
you think this kid can become a pocket passer, because in order to succeed you have to be a pocket passer...nice to have some scrambling ability, but you cannot rely on that every fucking play...like i said, he is too small.
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yeah, i don't know what happened to hoyer...he looked good for a while until he tore up his knee. however, he still looked decent during pettine first yr. at least the first 5-6 games. Then all the manziel shit started up and he seemed to get worse and worse. But no excuse for his performance with the texans...don't know what happened. I had high hopes for a while at least...as far as brandon weeden, it makes me fucking sick to see someone like him actually get paid good money to suck at his job big time...
I think strength of schedule is more to blame for Hoyer melting down in 2014 than from feeling the pressure from Johnny on the bench, who is supposedly not a good player.
I think strength of schedule is more to blame for Hoyer melting down in 2014 than from feeling the pressure from Johnny on the bench, who is supposedly not a good player.
i totally disagree...the manziel story was bigger than what we know...hey, fuck that, if i know my boss is set on someone sitting on the bench waiting for me to fuck up once or twice knowing he wants him in there come hell or high water. fuck that shit, i'd ask for a trade immediately, give me a chance somewhere else where i won't have some stupid fucked up gm and owner who wants some moron that can't even tell you 1 play from the playbook...
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I'm sure Johnny is done as a Brown & support his being gone even though I was once a huge supporter of his. What I simply can't agree with is some saying the kid has little or no ability to play NFL football. He may have many other issues, but lack of talent isn't one of them.
Time to move on for all concerned.
Mike
He may have many other issues, but lack of talent isn't one of them.
I agree that JM didn't lack talent, but what he did lack was ambition, commitment, and leadership.
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Which is why you and I can discuss this topic, because I respect your opinion and you at least have the ability to recognize that he's fucked up plenty in his short time with the Browns. The "fan boys" think everything he does on the field is great and everything off the field doesn't matter.
Actually Mark if you visit the texags.com website you will find that JF is still regarded for what he brought to A&M, but realistically see his self-destructive NFL stint as a failure thus far, primarily due to his off-field problems.
Actually Mark if you visit the texags.com website you will find that JF is still regarded for what he brought to A&M, but realistically see his self-destructive NFL stint as a failure thus far, primarily due to his off-field problems.
You're also one of the few who can look at him objectively.
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For anyone who watched Manziel play for the Browns and can honestly say he is the guy you think is prepared to lead this franchise into the future, you're fucking high.
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you think this kid can become a pocket passer, because in order to succeed you have to be a pocket passer...nice to have some scrambling ability, but you cannot rely on that every fucking play...like i said, he is too small. 52
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Time for you to go back and read Canton MIke's statement. He said nothing about pocket passing,
or going to succeed. READ first, complain later.
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Actually Mark if you visit the texags.com website you will find that JF is still regarded for what he brought to A&M, but realistically see his self-destructive NFL stint as a failure thus far, primarily due to his off-field problems.
You're also one of the few who can look at him objectively.
You're also one of the few who can look at him objectively.
Within limits...
the only thing in common as i can figure out was hoyer ended up in the same situation as he did with cleveland in houston.
Similar to be sure, but not when it came to coaching, IMO... at least I see two very different paths. AS I saw it...
Early, in pre-season, Pet vacillated between the performance of BH and the promise of JM before finally defaulting to BH primarily because JM was still struggling with the playbook. Once the job was his, BH settled in and Pet stuck with him through a serious decline in performance... even longer than I was willing to.
O'Brien followed almost the same pre-season script, but followed it up with a half-hearted "decision" and a quick hook in Game 1. Took a couple weeks for him to undo the damage he'd done, but again BH settled in.
In both cases his play was competent and complementary. Then in both cases the teams' run game went south due to injury. Effective running to set up Play-Action, Hoyer's bread and butter, disappeared. In CLE it was Mack; in HOU it was Foster. One major difference between the two seasons was the HOU Defense stepping up.
i totally disagree...the manziel story was bigger than what we know...
As I said above, early on I agree. Whether JM with us or Mallett in HOU the insecurity of his position got to Hoyer. But ultimately he failed in both places due to limitations that prevented him from carrying an offense.
Only difference was in HOU it took the added pressure of his first ever playoff appearance to produce that collapse.
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Manziel does not have NFL level talent. Period.
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VesnaKociper said:
I said it before and I will say it again. Different personalities need different management. Corey Dillon was a head case..........but not for Belichik. Why?
My problem with the entire Manziel situation is that the kid was never given a manifesto, not really. Every time he farted, someone was there to correct him, shove a camera up his ass, bench him and write stories about him. I wouldn't be to enthusiastic about that kind of a job either.
Yeah he was- keep a low profile. He was (former) pals with LeBron. I think he should have asked LBJ how the hell to keep TMZ off your ass.
What Cleveland is missing, is something they have missed over and over, and continue to miss. Not every NFL player is a perfect gentleman, completely driven by self determination and good, solid values. Some players can just play football, and their personal shit is fucked up. You can say whatever you want, but I don't believe the organization ever connected with this kid and got him to buy in to any specific plan going forward.
the only reason Manziel's personal shit isn't totally fucked up is because he hasn't been arrested- yet. Oh, I forgot- he did get busted back at A&M. With a documented history of partying like a MoFo since HS, and the latest mugshots of him picking up fifths and 3 liter wine in a box, well it's not exactly rocket science to figure out how he's spending the off season vacation. That after he blew the Browns off yet again.
So, bitch all you want about how immature he is, what a head case he is, and anything else you want to blast him about. If I own the Browns, I am going to make damned sure that I can't get him on the same page, so that I can use my draft picks for offensive weapons other than QB. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that this fucktard is going to play somewhere else, and if he gets a Belichik type coach, one who knows how to focus on football and not bullshit, the Browns will life to have a red ass at letting yet another good player away.
I have seen enough to know that JM has more skills than any QB that Browns have drafted since 1999. If you are sure we have done a great job harvesting his best effort, by all means hate the kid. Me? I think he is a very good QB waiting for the right system.
Dammit, the Browns tried everything possible. It will depend if he can get his off-field shit in order. I don't have any love for Mary Kay Cosmetics, but she did point out since he was drafted, Johnny is now on incident 13. Unlucky him. Time will tell if Johnny or Pettine is the bigger jerk. If hes pulling this shit to get cut, he's playing his cards damn well.
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For anyone who watched Manziel play for the Browns and can honestly say he is the guy you think is prepared to lead this franchise into the future, you're fucking high.
For anyone who watched Manziel play for the Browns and can honestly say he is the guy you think is prepared to lead this franchise into the future, you're fucking high.
Manziel does not have NFL level talent. Period.
uh.......a little late to this game.
now ur just kicking a dead horse and blowing hot air.
we all know the outcome. you want to be the guys that pound the last nail in the coffin, i get it.
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I get it too. You have nothing of value to add to society so you post stupid shit in an attempt to be insulting on the Browns board. Some existence you lead there dingbat.
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VesnaKociper said:
I said it before and I will say it again. Different personalities need different management. Corey Dillon was a head case..........but not for Belichik. Why?
My problem with the entire Manziel situation is that the kid was never given a manifesto, not really. Every time he farted, someone was there to correct him, shove a camera up his ass, bench him and write stories about him. I wouldn't be to enthusiastic about that kind of a job either.
What Cleveland is missing, is something they have missed over and over, and continue to miss. Not every NFL player is a perfect gentleman, completely driven by self determination and good, solid values. Some players can just play football, and their personal shit is fucked up. You can say whatever you want, but I don't believe the organization ever connected with this kid and got him to buy in to any specific plan going forward.
So, bitch all you want about how immature he is, what a head case he is, and anything else you want to blast him about. If I own the Browns, I am going to make damned sure that I can't get him on the same page, so that I can use my draft picks for offensive weapons other than QB. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that this fucktard is going to play somewhere else, and if he gets a Belichik type coach, one who knows how to focus on football and not bullshit, the Browns will life to have a red ass at letting yet another good player away.
I have seen enough to know that JM has more skills than any QB that Browns have drafted since 1999. If you are sure we have done a great job harvesting his best effort, by all means hate the kid. Me? I think he is a very good QB waiting for the right system.
A lot of good points made. IMO, it doesn't matter how much talent he has though if alcohol, cocaine and partying are prioritized above PROFESSIONAL football today. In college, you can get away with that stuff to an extent. For example, it was often rumored Marino loved to party at Pitt so he inexplicable dropped all the way down to 27th overall in the draft to one of those coaching personality types you speak of (Don Shula). The old "My way or highway" ended up producing a Hall of Fame QB. Marino was the choice and all he had to do to remain in favor was drop the kid stuff and it was game on.
We all know there wasn't a consensus up at the top about drafting Manziel so the commitment to him began at shakey before his actions would lead us to the inevitable.
What was the hurry for Manziel to leave all the college partying after his red shirt sophomore season especially considering Cleveland looked like the only team in round 1 willing to roll the dice on him at #22 overall?
1) He should have stayed in college - his fault.
2) We should have known this like all of the other teams that weren't willing to draft him in the 1st round INCLUDING Dallas.
3) His dad is a millionaire so money wasn't a big driving force to hurry him to the NFL. Basically, we're talking about a kid that has had a lot of practice being a brat where nobody ever said no or handed out consequences for bad behavior. When he was the #1 guy of a major DI college football program in Texas that blemished an Alabama perfect season plus earning a Heisman Trophy - it only made things to follow worse on and off the field.
We drafted a little boy named "Johnny" who wore out his welcome and many of the fans that were once excited about him joining the franchise. I'm done with all the excuses, alibis and it's everybody's fault but Johnny's. He's not. Therefore, I don't see this kid ever becoming a man in the path he continues to choose - so expecting him to flip the switch and make a great leader of men seems highly improbable. I've been wrong before though.
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Tom, why should anybody stay in college after an incredibly successful season and Heisman Trophy? Let's say next year the Aggies aren't quite so successful. Then you are looking at a second or third round offer. And that Heisman Trophy, well that was a couple years ago right? What have you done for me lately? Not to mention all you need is one dirty hit below the waist and bingo a major weapon in your arsenal is now depleted.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Stop the presses:
Johnny spotted drinking water at a Mavs game.
Film at 11.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/johnny_manziel_spotted_at_mavs.html
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USA Today with a clear explanation of the financial aspects of cutting JM by the Browns. More complex than just cut on Mar 9.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel-contract
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