Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Yup- he went up against Alabama's defense- you care to argue the shittiest (not to mention the best) NFL DL wouldn't be starting for Alabama?
But is IS a big difference TC- our failed Tim Couch said so. Holes that would have been obvious TDs in college got shut down for 5 yard gains. Everyone (who's been objective) says the speed of the game is much faster. Yup no doubt JF faced some CBs that wound up playing in the NFL- he's going to be seeing that every week, from every defender.
A 5 yd gain on every play is fine by me.
The speed of the game is faster, you're correct. But that's because every player in the NFL is akin to the fastest player in their position in college.
JM has faced the biggest and the fastest players of the college level. Hes faced Clowney on more than one occasion. He's played Alabama, unarguably the best all around defense in college.
He's not facing any faster individual players in the NFL. It's not like individual players get a speed boost just by joining the NFL.
He's just going to be facing teams full of fast players at every position, rather than a few good players at some positions. That's where the speed of the game changes. It's not that the top is raised, it's that the floor is raised. The fastest guy doesn't become faster when you jump levels, the slowest guy does.
A 5 yd gain on every play is fine by me.
The speed of the game is faster, you're correct. But that's because every player in the NFL is akin to the fastest player in their position in college.
JM has faced the biggest and the fastest players of the college level. Hes faced Clowney on more than one occasion. He's played Alabama, unarguably the best all around defense in college.
He's not facing any faster individual players in the NFL. It's not like individual players get a speed boost just by joining the NFL.
He's just going to be facing teams full of fast players at every position, rather than a few good players at some positions. That's where the speed of the game changes. It's not that the top is raised, it's that the floor is raised. The fastest guy doesn't become faster when you jump levels, the slowest guy does.
That would be the point TC- the floor gets raised- by a lot.
That's my contention- his jump balls to Evans against better corners (Patrick Peterson et al) turn into interceptions- and his scrambling gets him laid out by an equally quick 235 pound lb- disagree there?Can JF succeed? I hope so. You played the game- disagree Manziel comes into the league with a mile wide target on him opposing defenders would love to take a shot at?
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A 5 yd gain on every play is fine by me.
The speed of the game is faster, you're correct. But that's because every player in the NFL is akin to the fastest player in their position in college.
JM has faced the biggest and the fastest players of the college level. Hes faced Clowney on more than one occasion. He's played Alabama, unarguably the best all around defense in college.
He's not facing any faster individual players in the NFL. It's not like individual players get a speed boost just by joining the NFL.
He's just going to be facing teams full of fast players at every position, rather than a few good players at some positions. That's where the speed of the game changes. It's not that the top is raised, it's that the floor is raised. The fastest guy doesn't become faster when you jump levels, the slowest guy does.
That would be the point TC- the floor gets raised- by a lot.
That's my contention- his jump balls to Evans against better corners (Patrick Peterson et al) turn into interceptions- and his scrambling gets him laid out by an equally quick 235 pound lb- disagree there?Can JF succeed? I hope so. You played the game- disagree Manziel comes into the league with a mile wide target on him opposing defenders would love to take a shot at?
That would be the point TC- the floor gets raised- by a lot.
That's my contention- his jump balls to Evans against better corners (Patrick Peterson et al) turn into interceptions- and his scrambling gets him laid out by an equally quick 235 pound lb- disagree there?Can JF succeed? I hope so. You played the game- disagree Manziel comes into the league with a mile wide target on him opposing defenders would love to take a shot at?
No I don't agree because HaHa Clinton Dix wasn't picking those balls off. And no because Clowney wasn't laying him out when they played South Carolina.
For those of you that might not be huge college fans let me fill you in on something, despite having a couple studs that are 1st round picks Texas A&M isn't some super team. They looked pretty mediocre when Manziel wasn't QB. Talent wise there are better teams than A&M on their schedule and in their league such as Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, LSU, just to name a few not to mention playing teams like Oklahoma in bowl games. Manziel has seen top notch talent and their are alot of guys that run great 40s that never make it into the nfl.
yes in the nfl every one is a very good player but more than anything its a mental thing that seperates nfl stars like Ray Lewis, Polamalu, Ed Reed, JJ Watt, Richard Sherman is their mental makeup. There are alot of guys that are just as fast as the average nfl players that play on rosters like Florida that wash out because they don't have the mentality to be an nfl player or their stupidity or off the field problems catch up with them but when they play Texas A&M those guys are individual mismatches and they do get chances to make plays on Manziel and they fail spectacuarly. Despite having 2 top linemen drafted in the past 2 years the OLines that Manziel will have to protect him are going to be 100% if not more in the nfl where every guy again is at least at the floor of the highest level where as the rest of A&Ms line wont all be in the NFL in the future. He will have better RBs, better pass blocking running backs, better coaching and more coaching, better TEs, better defense so that he wont have to score 50 points a game and convert every 3rd and 25 because one lost set of downs might cost them the game in some 52-48 shootout which can also lead to safer play with regards to sliding or throwing the ball away. ALOT of that is lost that JFF plays so desperately sometimes because they are in a desperation mode alot of times because their defense was literally one of the worst in BCS league level college football.
Look at that clip where he spins two defenders and passes a bullet for a 3rd and 25 conversion. In the NFL they might not even call that play depending on the score they might just run it and concede a punt or throw a screen or whatever but A&M doesnt have that luxary and Manziel being a winner balls out and puts it all on the line to keep his team in games and win games.
For instance...
2012: 59-57 against Louisana Tech
2013: 49-42 against Alabama; 45-33 against Arkansas; 41-38 against Ole Miss; 45-41 loss to Auburn; 51-41 against Mississippi State; 52-48 against Duke.
I'm tired of people acting like he is made of glass also. Yes the NFL hits hard but the kid hasn't had any major injuries yet so what evidence at all do you have that he can't take a hit other than his size. He isn't some walking bean pole he is a muscular kid for his build. What u know how much milk he drank when he was a kid and know how strong his bones are? You some neurosurgeon that knows how strong his ligaments are? Fact is you don't know anything about if he can or can't take a hit just like you don't know if some 6'6'' QB can take a hit. Some can and some can't just like some small guys can get in there and mix it up.
Manziels running style doesn't lead to alot of big hits in the running game anyways, he slides if he is running head on at someone but if he has an angle to run he is able to use his quickness and nimbleness to avoid big hits. As seen with lots of little guys that make it in the nfl like Darren Sproles they don't take alot of big hits because usually to make the tackle you have to hit fundamentally sound or you will get embarassed because you go for a big hit that makes their job of making you miss easier. Guys like this can even stonewall a defender going for a big hit because they are lower to the ground and use leverage to develer the impact such as Manziel did to alot of guys who were bigger than him in the college level. It's not like a reciever who is going up and defenseless trying to concentrate on tracking the ball and making the catch. This whole injury threat and big hit nonsense is so overblown its ridiculous.
Again, in college there were lots of times when the other 3/5 or 4/5s of the line that aren't all NFL prospects like Matthews were matched up one on one against guys that were GREAT athletes for their positions at Florida, Alabama, Auburn, ect. When those guys won one on one matchups and got into the backfield and had chances to make plays on Manziel, he lit them up in true Johnny Football style and have have no doubt he will do the same in the NFL. He has all the tools and the work ethic as well, but more imporantly he has the It factor which is the mental makeup it takes to be the alpha dog in this game. People say "Michael Vick never sniffed the Super Bowl", well he was the first QB in history to win @ Lambaeu field in the playoffs and took his team to the NFC Championship game thats pretty close, and obviously Vick was an idiot with his off the field stuff and cost himself his prime years but who knows, I personally do think prime Michael Vick on the right team could be a Super Bowl QB. But again this doesn't matter other than to show Johnny Footballs style of play as seen by Vick, Rogers to an extent, Steve Young, can win in the NFL because Manziel is not Vick he is a whole different person who has a different mental makeup AND he is a much more polished and more accurate passer especially than Vick when he was drafted.
I undertand you dont want to get to hyped up because you know what its like to be let down. So if thats the case temper you enthusiam but you don't have to hate on the pick and predict a rash of injuries or interceptions raining down either especially when the reasons are as trivial and overanalyzed things such as him being short (so he must be an injury waiting to happen of course) or "you can't just throw jump balls to Evans" when newsflash several A&M big games they won or lost close such as Bama and Auburn this year they were outmatched at probably 16-18 out of the 22 starting positinos from a physical standpoint and the jump ball to Evans (who despite being a beast athlete is a bit overrated) on 1) what i believe was a third and long and would be a classic "as good as a punt situation" and 2) what was in a game they lost 49-42 a shootout against a school that has them overmatched, EXCEPT for the fact that among the 3-4 positions where A&M might have and advantage their was 1 that they did have a MASSIVE advantage over every team they played in every game they played and that was at the most important position on the field, QB. Again thats how you have a top 5 / top 10 team in the toughest league in the country despite the fact that your defense gives up 31 to rice, 28 to sam houston (mediocre FCS, 33 to Arkansas (3-9; 0-8 in conf), 38 to Ole Miss (8-5; 3-5 in conf), 41 to Miss St (7-6; 3-5 in conf).
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Johnny FOOTBALL interview 5/17/14
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I thought so. I didn't see any of the arrogance I keep hearing about. Sounds humble. Like he's ready to work to TAKE starting spot, not have it handed to him.
Liked what I heard out of Bitoino as well.
I thought so. I didn't see any of the arrogance I keep hearing about. Sounds humble. Like he's ready to work to TAKE starting spot, not have it handed to him.
Liked what I heard out of Bitoino as well.
A lot of "Johnny Football" is a media invention. He is extremely confident and hyper competitive. If you actually listen to him speak though you won't hear him saying anything but the right thing.
ESPN spent most of last year trying to cast him as college football's villain, but nobody who knows the guy seems to have anything negative to say about his attitude, abilities, or work ethic.
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I thought so. I didn't see any of the arrogance I keep hearing about. Sounds humble. Like he's ready to work to TAKE starting spot, not have it handed to him.
Liked what I heard out of Bitoino as well.
A lot of "Johnny Football" is a media invention. He is extremely confident and hyper competitive. If you actually listen to him speak though you won't hear him saying anything but the right thing.
ESPN spent most of last year trying to cast him as college football's villain, but nobody who knows the guy seems to have anything negative to say about his attitude, abilities, or work ethic.
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I thought so. I didn't see any of the arrogance I keep hearing about. Sounds humble. Like he's ready to work to TAKE starting spot, not have it handed to him.
Liked what I heard out of Bitoino as well.
I thought so. I didn't see any of the arrogance I keep hearing about. Sounds humble. Like he's ready to work to TAKE starting spot, not have it handed to him.
Although I'd say "earn", I agree, it was a solid interview...
The striking contrast between JM's interview vid and any of the other Draftees was its weight. Where to a fair degree all the other interviews were light-hearted with frequent chuckling all around, JM's did not get beyond smirk stage that I can recall.
More observation than commentary...
A lot of "Johnny Football" is a media invention. He is extremely confident and hyper competitive. If you actually listen to him speak though you won't hear him saying anything but the right thing.
ESPN spent most of last year trying to cast him as college football's villain, but nobody who knows the guy seems to have anything negative to say about his attitude, abilities, or work ethic.
You mean other than the Mannings...
Agree on JM saying the right things. The vid I referred to above was "pitch perfect". And where I often get concerned when everything said is "the right thing", this time I did not.
Anyone can be coached to say the right thing, but usually that coaching is obvious. Not that I cannot be fooled, but the JM interview seemed uncontrived.
Good beginning
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On the media hype and the term "Johnny Football":
Sumlin did not allow any freshmen, including Johnny, to talk to the media during that whole Heisman year until after the last game of the season. His play did his talking for him. Breaking Archie Manning's single game SEC record one week and then breaking his own new record the following had nothing to do with him trying to hype. It was the announcer at their nationally televised game against La. Tech when Johnny was breaking through for about a 70 yd. TD who said, "Johnny Football, on a night to remember!"
Funny thing is the only statement we saw from him that whole season was when they had a brief bit on the scoreboard at halftime after he had set those records asking various players from all classes what their nickname was. The last one asked was Johnny and he very humbly said, "Some people call me Johnny Football I guess." It was the only known public statement until after the Mo. game that year. He didn't create any of that stuff before the Heisman. And ESPN ran with it from that point on to sell air time.
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New Browns fan here... I graduated from Texas A&M and decided to check in on how Browns fans feel about JFF. Reading the posts, I felt I could give you some insight into him from someone who followed him since High School.
The kid is just different, he is a Texas HS legend because he put on a show every night... 75 total TDs his sr year which is a state record (think about that for a second, he was scoring 6-8 TDs a game, every game! But he was a 3 star recruit b/c everyone said he was too small and his game wouldn't fly in D1 football. Wrong. He leads the SEC in Rushing as a QB and breaks the all time SEC passing yards in a season his RS Freshman year. Then everyone said he couldn't do it again now that SEC defenses know how to stop him... Wrong again. Led the SEC in total yards, TDs, and passing yards again in year 2. Now people are saying he can't win in the NFL... All his life people have been doubting him and he just keeps proving them wrong. Just give him time and he will put on a show for you.
Evans benefitted just as much from johnny as johnny did from evans. evans is a horrible route runner btw.
JFF doesn't run as much anymore... He more so uses his legs to buy time so he can find an open man. That means he will get hit less than a usual pocket passing QB. People don't seem to understand this. Hoyer is more likely to get hurt than JFF... Like last season. Also, Johnny plays through pain... Most Aggies think he had a broken finger and separated shoulder for the last few games of the season. He is not a baby and he is EXTREMELY competitive at an elite level. Him falling in the draft was the best thing for him b/c it will fuel him. His teammates loved him (ESPN made stuff up about locker room jealousy), he works very hard to get better (he plays hard too), and he is actually a pretty nice guy. His problem was a lack of maturity on how to stay out of the spotlight but he is improving there as well. Don't believe whatever ESPN tells you... They use him for ratings. The E in ESPN stands for entertainment.
Will he be great? One can't know for sure but I would take a chance on him being great before any other QB being great in the last few drafts outside of Luck. He will will the Browns to victories or spend the whole offseason improving if he doesn't play well. Sit back and enjoy b/c every snap is a chance to seem something amazing.
Not to get in the middle of a running hoorta/ TC discussion, but I think there's a lot more to the jump to the Pros than just the collective speed of the fastest of the fastest...
New Browns fan here... I graduated from Texas A&M and decided to check in on how Browns fans feel about JFF. Reading the posts, I felt I could give you some insight into him from someone who followed him since High School.
evans is a horrible route runner btw.
JFF doesn't run as much anymore... He more so uses his legs to buy time so he can find an open man. That means he will get hit less than a usual pocket passing QB. People don't seem to understand this.
Howdy... I will pass on the history lesson, but agree on Evans (a minority opinion around here). AS for the running having followed A&M all year as well, it seemed to me that the running went down only as the bumps and bruises accumulated. No? Just seemed he got tagged harder his rSoph year.
Despite all the immature BS on this site the last week+, I have some real thoughts on Manziel...
Debating on whether to go with some quip about "mature BS" or "traitor"...
We may yet all end up where you now are, 23...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I personally hate ESPN and their role in the hype machine. They did it to Tebow and RG3 before JM. Next up will be Jameis Winston. Unfortunately he doesn't appear to have the moral character or family support of the others so does not bode well.
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I like Johnny even more than I DISLIKE the media (if that's possible!). The kid has always seemed sincere & his love for, pride in, & passion in playing football can't be questioned. I don't blame the Browns one bit for backing the national media off. Actually, I think it's sorta funny that someone finally told them NO!
Johnny's gonna be just fine.
Mike
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the media machine is embarrassing to watch. plain and simple. i love these hosts on espn's daily broadcasts talk about media hype when they are the ones promoting it.
i really don't think manziel asks for it but even he said in the vid interview that nowadays it's easy to market or brand oneself as an individual player realizing the TMZ tone of today's media. and who blames him? what, to make money? hell i'll be the first in line for that easy payday.
really pretty sad though when watching the gilbert and bitonio sections of the interviews and the dumb ass reporters can't get out of their way fast enough to ask them their thoughts on johnny manziel. don't know how long that will float as being fun, especially among the veterans who have earned it on the field.
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the media machine is embarrassing to watch. plain and simple. i love these hosts on espn's daily broadcasts talk about media hype when they are the ones promoting it.
i really don't think manziel asks for it but even he said in the vid interview that nowadays it's easy to market or brand oneself as an individual player realizing the TMZ tone of today's media. and who blames him? what, to make money? hell i'll be the first in line for that easy payday.
really pretty sad though when watching the gilbert and bitonio sections of the interviews and the dumb ass reporters can't get out of their way fast enough to ask them their thoughts on johnny manziel. don't know how long that will float as being fun, especially among the veterans who have earned it on the field.
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The running for Johnny decreased by design as the HC/OC wanted him to play more in the "system" and from the pocket plus we had four solid options at RB.
Johnny will be a joy to watch but his leadership is what will be felt the most. For example, look at the Chick.Fil.A Bowl as an example of this.
As Tommy pointed out above. We had the worst defense in the SEC.
My family (4 in total) is coming up to Cleveland for a game, maybe, two (if we can get single game tickets but you're sold out apparently) and look forward to seeing the City. I have heard it is a great place and the blue-collar culture is similar to the small-town culture of Texas where you work hard and "call you like you see it." You also play hard and raise a little hell from time to time.
My kids have Browns jerseys on order and can't wait until you guys pound the hell out of the Texans.
Lastly, Johnny will embrace the "Dawg Pound" and they will love him because he is a winner and your team will soon be as well.
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i think if we all step back and let nature run it's course and let the FO and coaches do it's job then we'll all be happy, whther it's manziel starting day one or not.
it's not like he won't get the chance.
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yeah i saw that.
kid is cool under pressure, i'll give him that.
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the media machine is embarrassing to watch. plain and simple. i love these hosts on espn's daily broadcasts talk about media hype when they are the ones promoting it.
i really don't think manziel asks for it but even he said in the vid interview that nowadays it's easy to market or brand oneself as an individual player realizing the TMZ tone of today's media. and who blames him? what, to make money? hell i'll be the first in line for that easy payday.
really pretty sad though when watching the gilbert and bitonio sections of the interviews and the dumb ass reporters can't get out of their way fast enough to ask them their thoughts on johnny manziel. don't know how long that will float as being fun, especially among the veterans who have earned it on the field.
the media machine is embarrassing to watch. plain and simple. i love these hosts on espn's daily broadcasts talk about media hype when they are the ones promoting it.
i really don't think manziel asks for it but even he said in the vid interview that nowadays it's easy to market or brand oneself as an individual player realizing the TMZ tone of today's media. and who blames him? what, to make money? hell i'll be the first in line for that easy payday.
really pretty sad though when watching the gilbert and bitonio sections of the interviews and the dumb ass reporters can't get out of their way fast enough to ask them their thoughts on johnny manziel. don't know how long that will float as being fun, especially among the veterans who have earned it on the field.
These rookies are all handling the Manziel questions well, but eventually I think the reporters will be made to look stupid as hell in public. Even Johnny said it's not 1 on 11 football. He won't let it be all about him.
Mike
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i think if we all step back and let nature run it's course and let the FO and coaches do it's job then we'll all be happy, whther it's manziel starting day one or not.
it's not like he won't get the chance.
i think if we all step back and let nature run it's course and let the FO and coaches do it's job then we'll all be happy, whther it's manziel starting day one or not.
it's not like he won't get the chance.
Yep, most all of us have been impressed with Farmer & the Coach(es) to date. I'm just having fun watching & listening to what they're doing & I'll just wait to see what happens. I can literally feel the culture & attitude change.
Mike
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Not to get in the middle of a running hoorta/ TC discussion, but I think there's a lot more to the jump to the Pros than just the collective speed of the fastest of the fastest...
New Browns fan here... I graduated from Texas A&M and decided to check in on how Browns fans feel about JFF. Reading the posts, I felt I could give you some insight into him from someone who followed him since High School.
evans is a horrible route runner btw.
JFF doesn't run as much anymore... He more so uses his legs to buy time so he can find an open man. That means he will get hit less than a usual pocket passing QB. People don't seem to understand this.
Howdy... I will pass on the history lesson, but agree on Evans (a minority opinion around here). AS for the running having followed A&M all year as well, it seemed to me that the running went down only as the bumps and bruises accumulated. No? Just seemed he got tagged harder his rSoph year.
Despite all the immature BS on this site the last week+, I have some real thoughts on Manziel...
Debating on whether to go with some quip about "mature BS" or "traitor"...
We may yet all end up where you now are, 23...
Not to get in the middle of a running hoorta/ TC discussion, but I think there's a lot more to the jump to the Pros than just the collective speed of the fastest of the fastest...
Howdy... I will pass on the history lesson, but agree on Evans (a minority opinion around here). AS for the running having followed A&M all year as well, it seemed to me that the running went down only as the bumps and bruises accumulated. No? Just seemed he got tagged harder his rSoph year.
Debating on whether to go with some quip about "mature BS" or "traitor"...
We may yet all end up where you now are, 23...
There is more, but that wasn't the discussion. The discussion was that the speed of the game is different.
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