Jonathan Paul Manziel
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@walterwhite said:
The kid is special, I'm telling you he just has the "it" factor that Favre had.
Manziel will be a good to very good NFL QB, but other than the fact that he is also a risk taking "gunslinger" type, I do not see "Favre-factor" in him.
Even if I did, I honestly would not see that that as a good thing. To me Favre was Romo with a stronger arm except that he got lucky once in '96... lucky the Pack had the #1 defense in the league to bail him out.
Granted that's more luck than we have seen since '64, but I'd like to hold out for a QB that can produce a career rating over 90.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
That applies to everything but QB. If you dont have one, you have to get one, if not youre just wasting everyone's time.
Sorry, but it applies to everything. You cannot afford to waste #1's. Need does not improve reality.
However, even if you have a "QB", you'd better be looking for your next one.
The only reality I see is that we need a QB...Just because the three guys that are the highest rated this year dont give you a chubby doesnt mean we can afford to pass on em. While the chances of us hitting on one is about 25% in the first round, it's below 5% after the first. Keep swinging. We can grab Decker or Nicks in FA and still have the best WR's in the division. The reality is this team hasn't even tried to get a difference maker at QB since couch. Settling for has-beens, late first rounders and 3rd rounders. I'm sick of it. Get a guy who most scouts have Top 10 overall.Manziel will be a good to very good NFL QB, but other than the fact that he is also a risk taking "gunslinger" type, I do not see "Favre-factor" in him.
Even if I did, I honestly would not see that that as a good thing. To me Favre was Romo with a stronger arm except that he got lucky once in '96... lucky the Pack had the #1 defense in the league to bail him out.
Granted that's more luck than we have seen since '64, but I'd like to hold out for a QB that can produce a career rating over 90.
Sorry, but it applies to everything. You cannot afford to waste #1's. Need does not improve reality.
However, even if you have a "QB", you'd better be looking for your next one.
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The only reality I see is that we need a QB...Just because the three guys that are the highest rated this year dont give you a chubby doesnt mean we can afford to pass on em. While the chances of us hitting on one is about 25% in the first round, it's below 5% after the first. Keep swinging. We can grab Decker or Nicks in FA and still have the best WR's in the division. The reality is this team hasn't even tried to get a difference maker at QB since couch. Settling for has-beens, late first rounders and 3rd rounders. I'm sick of it. Get a guy who most scouts have Top 10 overall.Manziel will be a good to very good NFL QB, but other than the fact that he is also a risk taking "gunslinger" type, I do not see "Favre-factor" in him.
Even if I did, I honestly would not see that that as a good thing. To me Favre was Romo with a stronger arm except that he got lucky once in '96... lucky the Pack had the #1 defense in the league to bail him out.
Granted that's more luck than we have seen since '64, but I'd like to hold out for a QB that can produce a career rating over 90.
Sorry, but it applies to everything. You cannot afford to waste #1's. Need does not improve reality.
However, even if you have a "QB", you'd better be looking for your next one.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Just because the three guys that are the highest rated this year dont give you a chubby doesnt mean we can afford to pass on em.
No more than your willingness to fail at any cost means we should draft the best QB available at #4...
Only if you believe that one of those 3 is your future starter based upon his performance on the field should you pull the trigger.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I keep watching YouTube games of Manziel... he's rapidly falling down my list... I'm wondering if he gets drafted in the first round at all...
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@walterwhite said:
If The Browns pass on Manziel and he ends up being a badass,
it will go down as one of the all time great follies in Browns history because he's was there for the taking.
We've passed on Ben, Rogers, Wilson, Kaepernick, Foles, and taken doofuses like Couch, Quinn, Weeden, and McCoy.
I think Manziel will be a stud and not a dud.
the problem with your post is..............every other team passed on those guys............
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Just because the three guys that are the highest rated this year dont give you a chubby doesnt mean we can afford to pass on em.
No more than your willingness to fail at any cost means we should draft the best QB available at #4...
Only if you believe that one of those 3 is your future starter based upon his performance on the field should you pull the trigger.
The fact is nobody knows which of these guys will succeed or not succeed. Hell they dont even know. Based on what they did on the field they are all pretty even in my book, on chances of success. Sure, there is no Andrew Luck....but they are all viewed as better prospects than say a Ryan Tannehill or Colin Kaepernick were. I'd spend the number 4 pick on either of them, would you?No more than your willingness to fail at any cost means we should draft the best QB available at #4...
Only if you believe that one of those 3 is your future starter based upon his performance on the field should you pull the trigger.
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I just don't like that he can't see open receivers unless he leaves the pocket. He also leaves the pocket often when he doesn't need to.
Im pretty sure he had something like a 70% completion rate from INSIDE the pocket this year. Better percentage than any other college QB from in the pocket this year. (Didn't feel like lookin up the actual %, know it was over 70 though)
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@walterwhite said:
If The Browns pass on Manziel and he ends up being a badass,
it will go down as one of the all time great follies in Browns history because he's was there for the taking.
We've passed on Ben, Rogers, Wilson, Kaepernick, Foles, and taken doofuses like Couch, Quinn, Weeden, and McCoy.
I think Manziel will be a stud and not a dud.
If the Browns pass on him, its a LOCK that he's gonna be badass...
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Manziel at the 4th pick and the best o lineman or WR at the 26th or whatever it is. get him and give him a supporting cast and theres no reason he wont do what he did at A&M..
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@walterwhite said:
Yea but not every other team needed a QB.
We needed a QB in 2004 (passed on Ben)
We needed a QB in 2005 (passed on Rogers)
We needed a QB in 2011 (passed on Kaepernick)
We needed a QB in 2012 (took Weeden over Wilson and Foles)
The front office and front offices of past have royally fucked us.
we need a QB in 2014
we will draft a WR......or DE
man we suck
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The fact is nobody knows which of these guys will succeed or not succeed. Hell they dont even know. Based on what they did on the field they are all pretty even in my book, on chances of success. Sure, there is no Andrew Luck....but they are all viewed as better prospects than say a Ryan Tannehill or Colin Kaepernick were. I'd spend the number 4 pick on either of them, would you?No more than your willingness to fail at any cost means we should draft the best QB available at #4...
Only if you believe that one of those 3 is your future starter based upon his performance on the field should you pull the trigger.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
The fact is nobody knows which of these guys will succeed or not succeed. Hell they dont even know. Based on what they did on the field they are all pretty even in my book, on chances of success. Sure, there is no Andrew Luck....but they are all viewed as better prospects than say a Ryan Tannehill or Colin Kaepernick were. I'd spend the number 4 pick on either of them, would you?
First, who rates all 3 (or is it 4?) prospects as better than Tannehill??? Was that coming out of college? Or now? If you want me to spend time laying out a rationale, be prepared to do the same. I don;t mind the thinking, but I am both the world's worst typist and a picky word picker... I'll put the following on your tab...
While I am tempted by Tannehill... No... I would not take either at #4. In part because I would not have pulled the trigger on either at #4 last year. (Would you? Did you ever post that you would?) But even with the benefit of two years more data actually as Pros... no.
Kaepernick was the final piece of a 49er puzzle that was much more complete than we are. He has the advantage of playing with a premiere WR in Bolden, elite TE's in Davis and a rising star in Crabtree. Add in an age defying Frank Gore and a really good Oline... Need I mention the 49er D or Colin's back up QB? I will bet you that he will be supplanted within the next three years. But no... not by Colt...
I am tempted by Ryan because he may yet develop... because he is in the D oriented AFCE... and because Miami was a mess this year. That said, I still thought he'd show more improvement in 2013. He made some rookie throws this year that I thought would be in his distant past. Plus he saved his worst for last... he was truly bad in his last two games.
All the above is said after promoting Ryan prior to the 2012 Draft as a solid 2nd Round prospect... and this was when he was a third round prospect on most lists. Then he got hot and the Dolphins let their need rule the day. Now many rue the day and there is talk of the new GM moving him.
I might trade our newly minted #26 for him, but never our #4.
Your turn...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The fact is nobody knows which of these guys will succeed or not succeed. Hell they dont even know. Based on what they did on the field they are all pretty even in my book, on chances of success. Sure, there is no Andrew Luck....but they are all viewed as better prospects than say a Ryan Tannehill or Colin Kaepernick were. I'd spend the number 4 pick on either of them, would you?No more than your willingness to fail at any cost means we should draft the best QB available at #4...
Only if you believe that one of those 3 is your future starter based upon his performance on the field should you pull the trigger.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
The fact is nobody knows which of these guys will succeed or not succeed.
Failed to address this nugget in my long reply...
Based on your statement why bother to think at all?
But once you have watched and thought about what you have seen, and gained an impression of the prospects relative chances of success...
How do you ignore your impression?
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I guess if you got Ryan for the 26 then youd take WR or O line to help him? or God knows what theyd do!
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
The fact is nobody knows which of these guys will succeed or not succeed. Hell they dont even know. Based on what they did on the field they are all pretty even in my book, on chances of success. Sure, there is no Andrew Luck....but they are all viewed as better prospects than say a Ryan Tannehill or Colin Kaepernick were. I'd spend the number 4 pick on either of them, would you?
First, who rates all 3 (or is it 4?) prospects as better than Tannehill??? Was that coming out of college? Or now? If you want me to spend time laying out a rationale, be prepared to do the same. I don;t mind the thinking, but I am both the world's worst typist and a picky word picker... I'll put the following on your tab...
While I am tempted by Tannehill... No... I would not take either at #4. In part because I would not have pulled the trigger on either at #4 last year. (Would you? Did you ever post that you would?) But even with the benefit of two years more data actually as Pros... no.
Kaepernick was the final piece of a 49er puzzle that was much more complete than we are. He has the advantage of playing with a premiere WR in Bolden, elite TE's in Davis and a rising star in Crabtree. Add in an age defying Frank Gore and a really good Oline... Need I mention the 49er D or Colin's back up QB? I will bet you that he will be supplanted within the next three years. But no... not by Colt...
I am tempted by Ryan because he may yet develop... because he is in the D oriented AFCE... and because Miami was a mess this year. That said, I still thought he'd show more improvement in 2013. He made some rookie throws this year that I thought would be in his distant past. Plus he saved his worst for last... he was truly bad in his last two games.
All the above is said after promoting Ryan prior to the 2012 Draft as a solid 2nd Round prospect... and this was when he was a third round prospect on most lists. Then he got hot and the Dolphins let their need rule the day. Now many rue the day and there is talk of the new GM moving him.
I might trade our newly minted #26 for him, but never our #4.
Your turn...
Im getting a headache. I was saying, the prospects coming out are rated higher than both of those QB's were coming out. Neither of them are going anywhere for the foreseeable future, and both have shown top 10 potential. As far as my little nugget is concerned, I was saying that after all the scouting and all workouts and all the rankings, there are still guys that bust. All you can do is make an educated guess at success probability. If Manziel biggest (and maybe only)weakness is size, Ill put my guess on him gaining 15 lbs. And the height, which hasn't been an issue for him yet, will also not be an issue. Hell the guy may still grow another inch.First, who rates all 3 (or is it 4?) prospects as better than Tannehill??? Was that coming out of college? Or now? If you want me to spend time laying out a rationale, be prepared to do the same. I don;t mind the thinking, but I am both the world's worst typist and a picky word picker... I'll put the following on your tab...
While I am tempted by Tannehill... No... I would not take either at #4. In part because I would not have pulled the trigger on either at #4 last year. (Would you? Did you ever post that you would?) But even with the benefit of two years more data actually as Pros... no.
Kaepernick was the final piece of a 49er puzzle that was much more complete than we are. He has the advantage of playing with a premiere WR in Bolden, elite TE's in Davis and a rising star in Crabtree. Add in an age defying Frank Gore and a really good Oline... Need I mention the 49er D or Colin's back up QB? I will bet you that he will be supplanted within the next three years. But no... not by Colt...
I am tempted by Ryan because he may yet develop... because he is in the D oriented AFCE... and because Miami was a mess this year. That said, I still thought he'd show more improvement in 2013. He made some rookie throws this year that I thought would be in his distant past. Plus he saved his worst for last... he was truly bad in his last two games.
All the above is said after promoting Ryan prior to the 2012 Draft as a solid 2nd Round prospect... and this was when he was a third round prospect on most lists. Then he got hot and the Dolphins let their need rule the day. Now many rue the day and there is talk of the new GM moving him.
I might trade our newly minted #26 for him, but never our #4.
Your turn...
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Id rather have a QB that needs to eat than a QB that needs to learn to play
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Look, Manziel is a bitch, you stupid fucks. Don't take a QB before you take that PR fuckin nightmare. He'll get injured within 4 games, will never stay healthy. Calling it now Manziels a beotch
Look, Manziel is a bitch, you stupid fucks. Don't take a QB before you take that PR fuckin nightmare. He'll get injured within 4 games, will never stay healthy. Calling it now Manziels a beotch
The guy with a Weeden avatar pic has no say in evaluating quarterbacks.
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No they will criticize and pick apart every incompletion he has...and even if he wins here ugly they will say he lucky and its defense or something...they would never say "I was wrong"
No they will criticize and pick apart every incompletion he has...and even if he wins here ugly they will say he lucky and its defense or something...they would never say "I was wrong"
Same argument I had with john football fan pages. They all say that but u think any of them would ever say " well he just wasn't good enough to play in the nfl level. Good college qb, bad nfl qb". No it probably go Somethin like "worst thing that ever happened to john was being drafted by Cleveland, or they don't let john play to his strengths trying to fit square peg into round hole."
John football fans are almost sickening the way they make this kid out to be god like. Or the guy that's going to change the game all together. I don't like nor want him here (like weeden) but as a Browns fan I will root harder for him than any homer he has now. If he succeeds I'll eat crow if not I will bash him as he deserves.
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ugliest fake football card ever.
what is he missing his teeth or does he just prefer 'black' in his mouth?
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