Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I haven't seen anything from Manziel to make me think his arm strength is much better.@mike-h said:
2014 Senior Bowl Tuesday...While Carr is the top quarterback on the South roster, Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo has been the next-most-impressive at the position and, in my opinion, is the second-best quarterback in Mobile. He doesn't have elite arm strength, but his velocity is good enough and it has been noticeably better than the arm strength of San Jose State QB David Fales, the other quarterback on the South team. Garoppolo started to build some momentum in St. Petersburg last week at the East-West Shrine Game and it's continuing here at the Senior Bowl. He projects as a solid second day draft choice and a future starter in a year or two in the NFL. - Dane Brugler, NFLDraftScout.com
Dane Brugler's analysis > yours.
No one said his arm strength was WEAK, just that it could be better.
His arm strength is more than adequate for an NFL QB. I'm not saying he's elite or anything, but his arm strength and velocity are good enough. I like his accuracy and touch, although I saw it waiver a bit under pressure.
Good developmental QB IMO. He's not a Dalton or anything.
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@mike-h said:
Thanks, I feel better about it already. I can't believe I was so stupid, that, after watching several of his games, I noticed a weakness in his otherwise clean skill-set. Your impressive breakdown of his arm strength really opened my eyes.
If you look at competition when evaluating QBs, you can say the same thing about Teddy Twatwater. For the most part, he played cupcakes. Thank God actual draft analysts don't let that deter them they see real translatable skills in prospects.
You are ripping someone because they don't have the same opinion as an NFL scout? There are plenty of NFL analysts with differing opinions and even the best make plenty of mistakes. YOU aren't an analyst. Quit being a douche.
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Well, Brugler still said he'll be a starter in a year or two right?@mike-h said:
I wrote scouting notes for Dan Shonka at Ourlads this year. Some of those will be in the scouting books teams have on their table during the draft. I'm no pro, but I know to value Brugler over bbdeward on theBrownsboard.com
Brugler doesn't make Garrapolo sound too bad at all.
His arm strength is far from the worst in the draft. Don't be a closed minded schmuck. This is a discussion board.
I'm not on any one of these QBs that hard, but nobody really has much bad to say about garappolo, including me. The "professionals" are interested in garappolo too.
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this QB class is sooooo fucking over rated.
the fact of the matter is there are so many teams looking to land their franchise QB with this upcoming draft that it has every other one of the other teams looking at QBs make all these guys seem irresistible to all these franchises including the browns.
what, do you think rome was built in a day? do you think we need help with other positions? do you think the next class of QBs next year will be worse than this year's?
i would ask half you guys just to slow down a second or two and really think about what you are willing to do to get someone you are in love with (see PoG in your mirror).
we have a HUGE opportunity this coming draft to upgrade both sides of the ball. if we don't get these guys in the draft, do you think we can get them in FA considering no coach wanted to touch this job with a ten foot pole?
i wouldn't mind getting someone in a later round that might develop into something special sitting behind the starters we will have coming into training camp, and hey if the guy actually beats out hoyer or campbell in training camp, then start him.
i'd rather concentrate on getting getting 5-6 quality rookie starters that boost performance and stats both on D and O this year, see what hoyer can do with more talent around him, and if he's the guy fine. if not go all in in 2015 for QB.
i don't care if peyton manning plays behind our OL next year, we still ain't going anywhere until we fix all the other problems non-QB related.
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I'd take a flyer on Jimmy @ 3 or 4.
WSS
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@mike-h said:
This same logic has gotten the Browns 4 and 5 win seasons since 2007. I'm guilty of it, too, wanting to give Weeden and Quinn their "shot"... Giving Hoyer his shot doesn't mean you can't take a QB to compete with him/learn under him for a year.
With Hoyers small frame, I'm worried about him staying healthy at the NFL level. He has an injury history in the league.---see, this can work both ways.
Can still draft a QB and add 5-6 rookie starters, including playmakers at RB and WR to go with Gordon and Cameron.
What other holes are left? ILB, CB, OG. They have FA and SEVEN other picks to use or trade up to get those players.
Not every team has pro bowlers at every position. Peyton manning makes his injured line look good. The Broncos defense isn't exactly dominating anyone either.
If a team has a good QB, it masks a lot of things.
I don't care how they get a QB, at what draft slot, but it's insane to think they won't. It's even crazier to plan on Hoyer being a long-term franchise QB without having a backup plan.
It's written on the wall in their draft war room... The road to the super bowl.
"We will have a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QB"
I don't think my opinion or anything else is better than yours, I think my understanding of their philosophy and the game itself is, though.
It's no secret that we're taking a QB. People just want to give hoyer a shot.
Otherwise I agree with you, but I wouldnt go around saying "I'm not saying my opinion is better, but I really think it is because I understand the game better"
The odds of us finding a Peyton manning in this draft are very slim though, so I'm more in favor of us building a defensive Baltimore/Seattle/SF type of team that can win with a competent QB. I don't know who that guy is whether it be bortles, manziel, bridgewater, Carr, garappolo - but that's what we have to talk about until draft day. It's just not a good comparison to say "look at Peyton's broncos, their defense isn't that great nor is their o-line." I hope we find our Peyton manning, but shit at this point I'll take a foles, wilson, kaepernick, ben. Flacco.
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I'd take a flyer on Jimmy @ 3 or 4.
WSS
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Meaning round 3 or 4.......
WSS
Yeah he is definitely worth a late flyer. Develop behind the first rounder and Hoyer.
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@mike-h said:
This same logic has gotten the Browns 4 and 5 win seasons since 2007. I'm guilty of it, too, wanting to give Weeden and Quinn their "shot"... Giving Hoyer his shot doesn't mean you can't take a QB to compete with him/learn under him for a year.
With Hoyers small frame, I'm worried about him staying healthy at the NFL level. He has an injury history in the league.---see, this can work both ways.
Can still draft a QB and add 5-6 rookie starters, including playmakers at RB and WR to go with Gordon and Cameron.
What other holes are left? ILB, CB, OG. They have FA and SEVEN other picks to use or trade up to get those players.
Not every team has pro bowlers at every position. Peyton manning makes his injured line look good. The Broncos defense isn't exactly dominating anyone either.
If a team has a good QB, it masks a lot of things.
I don't care how they get a QB, at what draft slot, but it's insane to think they won't. It's even crazier to plan on Hoyer being a long-term franchise QB without having a backup plan.
It's written on the wall in their draft war room... The road to the super bowl.
"We will have a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QB"
I don't think my opinion or anything else is better than yours, I think my understanding of their philosophy and the game itself is, though.
The Pittsburgh model- draft your franchise qb last seemed to work out well. I'd daresay Kapernick and Wilson were among the last pieces of the puzzle in SF and Seattle. & you know it & I know if- if Winston and Mariotta were in this draft it would slide everyone else down two slots.
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I could care less if we didnt draft a QB in this years draft or not...None of the prospects look like a sure fire hit in this draft...Id rather take Sammy Watkins and take a flyer on fales or garappolo and develope them as a potential starter/backup behind Hoyer. I wont be disappointed either way.
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@mike-h said:
This same logic has gotten the Browns 4 and 5 win seasons since 2007. I'm guilty of it, too, wanting to give Weeden and Quinn their "shot"... Giving Hoyer his shot doesn't mean you can't take a QB to compete with him/learn under him for a year.
With Hoyers small frame, I'm worried about him staying healthy at the NFL level. He has an injury history in the league.---see, this can work both ways.
Can still draft a QB and add 5-6 rookie starters, including playmakers at RB and WR to go with Gordon and Cameron.
What other holes are left? ILB, CB, OG. They have FA and SEVEN other picks to use or trade up to get those players.
Not every team has pro bowlers at every position. Peyton manning makes his injured line look good. The Broncos defense isn't exactly dominating anyone either.
If a team has a good QB, it masks a lot of things.
I don't care how they get a QB, at what draft slot, but it's insane to think they won't. It's even crazier to plan on Hoyer being a long-term franchise QB without having a backup plan.
It's written on the wall in their draft war room... The road to the super bowl.
"We will have a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QB"
I don't think my opinion or anything else is better than yours, I think my understanding of their philosophy and the game itself is, though.
The Pittsburgh model- draft your franchise qb last seemed to work out well. I'd daresay Kapernick and Wilson were among the last pieces of the puzzle in SF and Seattle. & you know it & I know if- if Winston and Mariotta were in this draft it would slide everyone else down two slots.
Not so sure about the Winston and Mariota part.The Pittsburgh model- draft your franchise qb last seemed to work out well. I'd daresay Kapernick and Wilson were among the last pieces of the puzzle in SF and Seattle. & you know it & I know if- if Winston and Mariotta were in this draft it would slide everyone else down two slots.
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@mike-h said:
The Browns have drafted tons of young talent. 6 pro bowlers.
You're blind if you think the team isnt the right mix of young talent and veterans, to be successful on Sundays.
Can't do that without a QB.
It's been real fun, good luck.
Mike, no one is debating not taking a qb- it's where and when do we draft one. I don't want the Browns to take a half-assed swing at a half-assed talent. If the Browns brass doesn't see multiple Pro Bowl level qb talent, personally- I'd pass.Go with Hoyer and take a developmental guy later. Gip put out the facts- There isn't a Manning, Brady or Brees in every draft- and you don't have to draft him top 5 either. You have to go back 10 years to find two stud qbs top five same draft- Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers. Plenty of those years no qb was taken top 5, and this might just be the year to take a pass. It's early yet- we'll see what transpires at the combine and private workouts.
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in college way way better in every facet of the game
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We need a QB that's better in the pros then in college
Someone like Wilson, Kaepernick, Brady, Montana, Aikmen,Marino..............................................
When are the Browns going to get a guy that changes the game?
WE NEED A BETTER FRONT OFFICE
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in college way way better in every facet of the game
Wilson - 72.8% comp. 191.8 Rate. 33 TDs, 4 INTs (in 309 pass attempts) 338 rush yds. 6 rush TDs (in 79 rush attempts) - in 2011
Manziel - 69.9% comp. 172.9 Rate. 37 TDs. 13 INTs (in 429 pass attempts) 759 rush yds, 9 rush TDs (in 144 rush attempts) - in 2013
hmm.... way better huh??
#Justsayin' -
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in college way way better in every facet of the game
Wilson - 72.8% comp. 191.8 Rate. 33 TDs, 4 INTs (in 309 pass attempts) 338 rush yds. 6 rush TDs (in 79 rush attempts) - in 2011
Manziel - 69.9% comp. 172.9 Rate. 37 TDs. 13 INTs (in 429 pass attempts) 759 rush yds, 9 rush TDs (in 144 rush attempts) - in 2013
hmm.... way better huh??
Wilson - 72.8% comp. 191.8 Rate. 33 TDs, 4 INTs (in 309 pass attempts) 338 rush yds. 6 rush TDs (in 79 rush attempts) - in 2011
Manziel - 69.9% comp. 172.9 Rate. 37 TDs. 13 INTs (in 429 pass attempts) 759 rush yds, 9 rush TDs (in 144 rush attempts) - in 2013
hmm.... way better huh??
how about the same, and now Wilson is a SUPERBOWL CHAMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."
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