Jonathan Paul Manziel
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i don't think manziel makes this team better. i think hoyer is royally fucking up. i don't care who starts as long as that person give the browns the best chance to win.
it's a 2 edged sword now for manziel AND for the browns. if manziel starts and blows does that mean our QB search is still on? i love what hoyer did for us but if you can't mentally tough it out with the pressures going on around you then you can't be that guy that leads the team into battle. simple as that. and let's see how teams prep for manziel. i really doubt the bills did anything this week thinking manziel would come in.
i don't think manziel makes this team better. i think hoyer is royally fucking up. i don't care who starts as long as that person give the browns the best chance to win.
it's a 2 edged sword now for manziel AND for the browns. if manziel starts and blows does that mean our QB search is still on? i love what hoyer did for us but if you can't mentally tough it out with the pressures going on around you then you can't be that guy that leads the team into battle. simple as that. and let's see how teams prep for manziel. i really doubt the bills did anything this week thinking manziel would come in.
Mik - this is a great question. Let the annual cyber masturbation about the best qb in the draft begin! (not a knock at you)
If they start Johnny and he does poorly, does he have a short leash, or do they stick it out no matter what?
Hope has two beautiful daughters: Their names are Anger and Courage. Anger that things are the way they are. Courage to make them the way they ought to be. - St. Augustine. Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads armed with nothing but their vision. - Ayn Rand -
I start Manziel. Hoyer isn't the future. He is a solid back-up, marginal starter. No way I sign him top a 4-5 year, 35 mil deal. Maybe 3 years at 14 mil.
We are Johnny Football. Embrace it.
I'm going to embrace it either way. I'm completely on the fence on this one. I can see giving Hoyer who is 9-5 as a starter (not counting the Bills game last year) and has the team at 7-5 this year and in the hunt one last chance to pull his head out of his ass but it's going to be a very short leash if he starts. I can also see saying fuck it...Hoyer has been playing worse and worse for the last few weeks, let's see what this kid has got and hand the keys over to him and enjoy the ride.
I'm going to embrace it either way. I'm completely on the fence on this one. I can see giving Hoyer who is 9-5 as a starter (not counting the Bills game last year) and has the team at 7-5 this year and in the hunt one last chance to pull his head out of his ass but it's going to be a very short leash if he starts. I can also see saying fuck it...Hoyer has been playing worse and worse for the last few weeks, let's see what this kid has got and hand the keys over to him and enjoy the ride.
I kind of felt like this past week was his "one last chance" and was hoping for the hook during the Atl game.....specially, right after Hoyer got creamed by Cushing....
I think Pettine showed great patience and fairness with BH and gave him EVERY chance to play and show his stuff....especially considering ist round pick Mr. Johnny Football was sitting on the bench.....a LOT of teams would've played JFF sooner.....
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i don't think manziel makes this team better. i think hoyer is royally fucking up. i don't care who starts as long as that person give the browns the best chance to win.
it's a 2 edged sword now for manziel AND for the browns. if manziel starts and blows does that mean our QB search is still on? i love what hoyer did for us but if you can't mentally tough it out with the pressures going on around you then you can't be that guy that leads the team into battle. simple as that. and let's see how teams prep for manziel. i really doubt the bills did anything this week thinking manziel would come in.
Mik - this is a great question. Let the annual cyber masturbation about the best qb in the draft begin! (not a knock at you)
If they start Johnny and he does poorly, does he have a short leash, or do they stick it out no matter what?
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Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
I think you've missed the point. Hoorta didn't say Manziel won't be good because he didn't go #1 overall. He simply pointed out that being a superstar in college doesn't mean you'll be a superstar in the NFL.
Nice try though, buddy.
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Manziel doesnt run like other QB's run.. He doesnt run like Griffin or Newton.. as they are both pretty much see a lane.. run through as fast as you can. Wilson is a backdoor type runner who will steal the green if you give it to him, and may change direction here or there.
He runs more like Vick.. not AS fast.. but MORE agile.
Johnny Manziel is almost the EXACT same height and weight as LeSean Mccoy.. and they both have great quicks and insane lateral movement.
He is in a class by himself when running. Because unlike when other QB's run.. unless he is in a full sprint straight away... defenders cant get a clean shot on him because Johnny sets them up. He's too shifty and makes defenders hesitate before they bite. He runs like... ballet
Manziel doesnt run like other QB's run.. He doesnt run like Griffin or Newton.. as they are both pretty much see a lane.. run through as fast as you can. Wilson is a backdoor type runner who will steal the green if you give it to him, and may change direction here or there.
He runs more like Vick.. not AS fast.. but MORE agile.
Johnny Manziel is almost the EXACT same height and weight as LeSean Mccoy.. and they both have great quicks and insane lateral movement.
He is in a class by himself when running. Because unlike when other QB's run.. unless he is in a full sprint straight away... defenders cant get a clean shot on him because Johnny sets them up. He's too shifty and makes defenders hesitate before they bite. He runs like... ballet
Johnny has very good field awareness when he runs, the way he switched the ball on his TD run before contact and covered in a fast motion was one example, but there will be mistakes and he will get hit.
I wouldn't compare him to lesean McCoy though.
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Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
You totally missed my point Jim. Did I say anything in that post where I thought Manziel couldn't be a good, or even great pro qb? Don't think so. GMs thought he was a riskier pick than Anderw Luck- that's all. Where you get drafted does indeed depend on how many of those scout boxes get checked off. Want to argue otherwise? Now that's really bullshit. Apparently Brady had about as many checked off as Spurgon Wynn. Tony Romo? Even less. Hells bells, drafting isn't an exact science, want to look up how many teams passed on Joe Montana? Got drafted in the same round as our dear Colt McCoy, and Russell Wilson. Hmmm- seems Montana and McCoy fell because of concerns over arm strength, and Wilson fell because of his height. So yes, GMs are rethinking their viewpoints on how tall you have to be to succeed in the NFL, exactly because of how Wilson is playing.
I can go on- Thuman Thomas lasted until the second round because of injury concerns- so did Montario Hardesty. Who guessed right?
BTW it's far from a done deal Hoyer is gone after this year, and you're probably old enough to realize that. Now if Brian wants to pout that he got demoted- yes he's gone. If he's willing to accept a long term backup deal at a reasonable price, it's an ideal situation for him.
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hoorta-I see you ventured over here. LOL!
My one and only concern is that a 4 game trial after almost no 1's practice time is totally unfair to JF, especially considering the schedule. That is a GM's recipe for disaster for the team and the player. Let BH finish out the season and if he screws the pooch make it clear from day one next year that JF is the new QB and give him all the reps with a good long stint in the position. If Brian does well and the team finishes reasonably, then he keeps his job and the Browns have a QB. To get it back for another year because a rook can't produce under the worst 4 game scenario is a foolish concession to fan pressure and certainly a ridiculous way to plan next year's potential drafting of the next Cleveland QB savior.
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The media divide is becoming clear...
Former players are by and large lining up behind Hoyer due to leadership, 7-5, etc.
Writers are by and large lining up behind Manziel due to "excitement" and there's no better example than this tripe, fresh from USA Today...
Manziel doesnt run like other QB's run.. He doesnt run like Griffin or Newton.. as they are both pretty much see a lane.. run through as fast as you can. Wilson is a backdoor type runner who will steal the green if you give it to him, and may change direction here or there.
He runs more like Vick.. not AS fast.. but MORE agile.
Johnny Manziel is almost the EXACT same height and weight as LeSean Mccoy.. and they both have great quicks and insane lateral movement.
He is in a class by himself when running. Because unlike when other QB's run.. unless he is in a full sprint straight away... defenders cant get a clean shot on him because Johnny sets them up. He's too shifty and makes defenders hesitate before they bite. He runs like... ballet
Great analogy... and on average LeSean has only missed about 2 games per year since he's been a starter.
Too bad Baryshnikov and Nureyev are over the hill...
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No drafting a QB next year either, least not with our 1st two picks. Any QB worth drafting in the 1st round next year is gonna be long gone by the time we pick anyway so it's a moot point. If Hoyer has to go and Johnny shows progress but not there yet...than let's get a vet. Somebody that comes in here to run the team but is explicitly tasked with teaching Manziel. That's kind of what I wanted out of Hoyer...give a good 3 year deal where he'll probably start at least 2 years than if things go well become Johnny's backup. And with the way Manziel plays it would be likely that even in years 3 and 4 Hoyer was gonna get a couple starts a season because Manziel was on the mend. We could have had a nice two QB situation.
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I have a feeling this might be more you guys' speed.
NSFW, obviously.
I have a feeling this might be more you guys' speed.
NSFW, obviously.
Wait wut? You had that in your bag but you opened your set with the Johnny song? Dude, you ALWAYS open with the classics....gets the crowd into it early. Noob
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hoorta-I see you ventured over here. LOL!
My one and only concern is that a 4 game trial after almost no 1's practice time is totally unfair to JF, especially considering the schedule. That is a GM's recipe for disaster for the team and the player. Let BH finish out the season and if he screws the pooch make it clear from day one next year that JF is the new QB and give him all the reps with a good long stint in the position. If Brian does well and the team finishes reasonably, then he keeps his job and the Browns have a QB. To get it back for another year because a rook can't produce under the worst 4 game scenario is a foolish concession to fan pressure and certainly a ridiculous way to plan next year's potential drafting of the next Cleveland QB savior.
My one and only concern is that a 4 game trial after almost no 1's practice time is totally unfair to JF, especially considering the schedule. ..... To get it back for another year because a rook can't produce under the worst 4 game scenario is a foolish concession to fan pressure and certainly a ridiculous way to plan next year's potential drafting of the next Cleveland QB savior.
There is no way this move is being made due to fan pressure....not a chance.
And there is no way we will make a long term decision on JFF, based only upon the next four games. Not a chance(again)
He will get the same consideration Hoyer got, if not more. At least a full season, Id guess. So...next four games, if he gets them, are just an attempt to keep winning and a sure indication that the coach(es) have lost confidence in BH....
Do I sense some fear that JFF isn't gonna be the man you've been ranting about for 8 months now? Lining up the excuses just in case?
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I still think Hoyer starts Sunday...but if he can't get out of the slump, at some point,
they will put manziel in, it will be a bit sooner.
It's possible that Hoyer has risen to his level of incompetence by pressing too hard,
and having things go wrong.
He has to stop trying to make huge plays while off balance - he doesn't have the arm
to make some of those throws unless he has his feet set, or at least be on the move
and on balance. It's odd that he is playing worse with Gordon back.
If Gordon can't get his mistakes out of the way, I'd trade him. He should know how to
make adjustments on the fly, regardless of his time off. He's been playing hard, but
his mental reactions on the field seem to be flustered at times.
I still think Hoyer starts Sunday...but if he can't get out of the slump, at some point, they will put manziel in, it will be a bit sooner.
It's possible that Hoyer has risen to his level of incompetence by pressing too hard,
and having things go wrong.
He has to stop trying to make huge plays while off balance - he doesn't have the arm
to make some of those throws unless he has his feet set, or at least be on the move
and on balance. It's odd that he is playing worse with Gordon back.
If Gordon can't get his mistakes out of the way, I'd trade him. He should know how to
make adjustments on the fly, regardless of his time off. He's been playing hard, but
his mental reactions on the field seem to be flustered at times.
Agree with the QB assessments up to the balance point. I think his footwork was pretty good again vs. BUF. Will be noting it again this week.
On Josh... the thought crossed my mind earlier that some of his big plays last year may have been "against read", but in Wheezy and Campbell he had QBs that chucked it anyway.
YOu win today. My god, a Baryshnikov call out on a Cleveland Browns football forum....fuck my ass running. Fuck my ass so hard running that was amazing.
Thanks... but it really wasn't that hard.
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My one and only concern is that a 4 game trial after almost no 1's practice time is totally unfair to JF, especially considering the schedule. ..... To get it back for another year because a rook can't produce under the worst 4 game scenario is a foolish concession to fan pressure and certainly a ridiculous way to plan next year's potential drafting of the next Cleveland QB savior.
There is no way this move is being made due to fan pressure....not a chance.
And there is no way we will make a long term decision on JFF, based only upon the next four games. Not a chance(again)
He will get the same consideration Hoyer got, if not more. At least a full season, Id guess. So...next four games, if he gets them, are just an attempt to keep winning and a sure indication that the coach(es) have lost confidence in BH....
Do I sense some fear that JFF isn't gonna be the man you've been ranting about for 8 months now? Lining up the excuses just in case?
There is no way this move is being made due to fan pressure....not a chance.
And there is no way we will make a long term decision on JFF, based only upon the next four games. Not a chance(again)
He will get the same consideration Hoyer got, if not more. At least a full season, Id guess. So...next four games, if he gets them, are just an attempt to keep winning and a sure indication that the coach(es) have lost confidence in BH....
Do I sense some fear that JFF isn't gonna be the man you've been ranting about for 8 months now? Lining up the excuses just in case?
Not sure about a "full year", but certainly not simply the next four games.
If it is to be JM the rest of 2014, then BH is gone and at a minimum I'd expact another vet back-up, FA signing... Grossman is waiting by his phone.
As for the excuses... Get real, Mud... the only way JM doesn't succeed is if the Browns fail him... been that way since pick #22 was announced.
In response to a separate thought train... I think whether or not we draft a QB late will entirely rest upon how highly Shaw is regarded.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
if you dont want to start manziel you are an idiot. Hes johnny football
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There is no way this move is being made due to fan pressure....not a chance.
And there is no way we will make a long term decision on JFF, based only upon the next four games. Not a chance(again)
He will get the same consideration Hoyer got, if not more. At least a full season, Id guess. So...next four games, if he gets them, are just an attempt to keep winning and a sure indication that the coach(es) have lost confidence in BH....
Do I sense some fear that JFF isn't gonna be the man you've been ranting about for 8 months now? Lining up the excuses just in case?
Not sure about a "full year", but certainly not simply the next four games.
If it is to be JM the rest of 2014, then BH is gone and at a minimum I'd expact another vet back-up, FA signing... Grossman is waiting by his phone.
As for the excuses... Get real, Mud... the only way JM doesn't succeed is if the Browns fail him... been that way since pick #22 was announced.
In response to a separate thought train... I think whether or not we draft a QB late will entirely rest upon how highly Shaw is regarded.
In response to a separate thought train... I think whether or not we draft a QB late will entirely rest upon how highly Shaw is regarded.
Yep. And, assuming Hoyer is gone....
then you gotta assume JFF will be #1 next year.....automatically....and without major competition. I doubt we'll sign a "starter type" or draft a QB high enough to be considered serious competition.....so the discussion will turn to "who's the back up?"....shaw or ????
I liked the little we saw of Shaw and do think he's an ideal match for JFF....hope he's doing well.....real well....
If we DON't draft or sign a serious QB candidate, then I guess we'll know what the Browns think of Johnny AND Shaw
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So far I have seen Trent dilfer Steve Young, mike golic, and some ESPN poll of fans, all saying hoyer should start. Personally I don't care, especially about dilfer who has always had some weird thing with us ever since he was on our team. But I just thought it was interesting that all the talking heads are saying hoyer should start.
Thoughts?
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In response to a separate thought train... I think whether or not we draft a QB late will entirely rest upon how highly Shaw is regarded.
Yep. And, assuming Hoyer is gone....
then you gotta assume JFF will be #1 next year.....automatically....and without major competition. I doubt we'll sign a "starter type" or draft a QB high enough to be considered serious competition.....so the discussion will turn to "who's the back up?"....shaw or ????
I liked the little we saw of Shaw and do think he's an ideal match for JFF....hope he's doing well.....real well....
If we DON't draft or sign a serious QB candidate, then I guess we'll know what the Browns think of Johnny AND Shaw
Yep. And, assuming Hoyer is gone....
then you gotta assume JFF will be #1 next year.....automatically....and without major competition. I doubt we'll sign a "starter type" or draft a QB high enough to be considered serious competition.....so the discussion will turn to "who's the back up?"....shaw or ????
I liked the little we saw of Shaw and do think he's an ideal match for JFF....hope he's doing well.....real well....
If we DON't draft or sign a serious QB candidate, then I guess we'll know what the Browns think of Johnny AND Shaw
Shaw did look good in what little action we saw. I would feel more comfortable with a veteran backup in case both shit the bed.
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