Jonathan Paul Manziel
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
uhhhh ok. Why do I care about what Walter said about the RGIII trade? Our fan base always wants to give the underdog a chance. We've passed on multiple great QBs for McCoy, Anderson, Quinn, etc.. I guarantee nobody in that front office is looking at Hoyer like hes much more than a stop-gap starter/backup, and they will no doubt try and upgrade the position. Just a matter of how and when.
Because almost without exception, the draft gurus fall in love with "this year's model", and they're f**king doing it again- in spades- with Manziel. History guy, RE: RGIII- that being the worst example. Stiffs like Joey Harrington, Jamarcus Russell, and Matt Leinart got praised to high heaven about their superior quarterbacking skills before the draft- it took me a looooong time, but I finally figured out to totally not buy into the hype. And you're forgetting history- again- the trade up for Brady Quinn worked out really well- NOT!!! Nothing worse that reaching for a qb if the talent isn't there. FWIW, I was screaming for months way back when Quinn wasn't worth the risk. I'm saying the same about Johnny Football
, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Too bad he's already a legend in his own mind.No one in the Front Office? talked to Farmer lately to see what he's got in mind? When may well not be this year, or not in the top 4. I'm not averse to drafting a qb- just after 20 tries draft the right one for a change. And I saw what I saw in Hoyer- he may well be a two game wonder- like Scott Mitchell, or maybe not. I can't believe some Browns fans want to throw him under the bus as nothing more than a stopgap after a promising start. Nothing wrong about drafting an insurance policy though.
Because almost without exception, the draft gurus fall in love with "this year's model", and they're f**king doing it again- in spades- with Manziel. History guy, RE: RGIII- that being the worst example. Stiffs like Joey Harrington, Jamarcus Russell, and Matt Leinart got praised to high heaven about their superior quarterbacking skills before the draft- it took me a looooong time, but I finally figured out to totally not buy into the hype. And you're forgetting history- again- the trade up for Brady Quinn worked out really well- NOT!!! Nothing worse that reaching for a qb if the talent isn't there. FWIW, I was screaming for months way back when Quinn wasn't worth the risk. I'm saying the same about Johnny Football
, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Too bad he's already a legend in his own mind.No one in the Front Office? talked to Farmer lately to see what he's got in mind? When may well not be this year, or not in the top 4. I'm not averse to drafting a qb- just after 20 tries draft the right one for a change. And I saw what I saw in Hoyer- he may well be a two game wonder- like Scott Mitchell, or maybe not. I can't believe some Browns fans want to throw him under the bus as nothing more than a stopgap after a promising start. Nothing wrong about drafting an insurance policy though.
and the love fest for the top 4 or 5 guys next year will be the same as this year. and if we draft a QB who starts immediately and does squadoosh everyone will be screaming "we should have waited until next year!!!!!!"
obviously if we do draft a QB everyone will compete for the job and wouldn't it be funny if hoyer wins out? wouldn't that be a gas!
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I think that is a limited way to look at it. I don't think the measure of a good QB is who won championships. I think the measure is who put their team in to position to play for championships.
I think that's all you can ask of any one player.
That is spot on, and for some reason, this perfect logic is getting buried in today's sports fan society.
Marino and Fouts would actually be looked at as liabilities, like Tony Romo, if they were playing today, because they didn't have rings.
We evaluate 40 times of guards like it is the key to the draft, but in the end the win/fail is all put on the QB and not the other 52 who were so scrutinized when they came into the league.
NFL Championships are so hard to win, and they take every man's effort, coach and player.
This whole NBAism of the NFL "he's got two ... He's got one ... He's got three, so he's clearly the best" is so damn simpleminded that it's bothersome.
Z
Zombo said:
That is spot on, and for some reason, this perfect logic is getting buried in today's sports fan society.
Marino and Fouts would actually be looked at as liabilities, like Tony Romo, if they were playing today, because they didn't have rings.
We evaluate 40 times of guards like it is the key to the draft, but in the end the win/fail is all put on the QB and not the other 52 who were so scrutinized when they came into the league.
NFL Championships are so hard to win, and they take every man's effort, coach and player.
This whole NBAism of the NFL "he's got two ... He's got one ... He's got three, so he's clearly the best" is so damn simpleminded that it's bothersome.
Z
It's all about the trophies nowadays. Remember, they give trophies for participation and I think farting starting in elementary school.
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Zombo said:
That is spot on, and for some reason, this perfect logic is getting buried in today's sports fan society.
Marino and Fouts would actually be looked at as liabilities, like Tony Romo, if they were playing today, because they didn't have rings.
We evaluate 40 times of guards like it is the key to the draft, but in the end the win/fail is all put on the QB and not the other 52 who were so scrutinized when they came into the league.
NFL Championships are so hard to win, and they take every man's effort, coach and player.
This whole NBAism of the NFL "he's got two ... He's got one ... He's got three, so he's clearly the best" is so damn simpleminded that it's bothersome.
Z
It's all about the trophies nowadays. Remember, they give trophies for participation and I think farting starting in elementary school.
It's all about the trophies nowadays. Remember, they give trophies for participation and I think farting starting in elementary school.
fran tarkenton was a great QB, no denying it.
but when you make a list of the best QBs of all time, where would he land?
i guarantee you the guys that actually won super bowls will be ahead of the guys that didn't, well maybe except dilfer.
individual records and stats are great but people do judge players by championships before individual records.
that's all i'm saying.
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It's all about the trophies nowadays. Remember, they give trophies for participation and I think farting starting in elementary school.
fran tarkenton was a great QB, no denying it.
but when you make a list of the best QBs of all time, where would he land?
i guarantee you the guys that actually won super bowls will be ahead of the guys that didn't, well maybe except dilfer.
individual records and stats are great but people do judge players by championships before individual records.
that's all i'm saying.
maybe when comparing who is the best of all time, but theres no denying he put his team in a position to win it all multiple times.fran tarkenton was a great QB, no denying it.
but when you make a list of the best QBs of all time, where would he land?
i guarantee you the guys that actually won super bowls will be ahead of the guys that didn't, well maybe except dilfer.
individual records and stats are great but people do judge players by championships before individual records.
that's all i'm saying.
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talk shit...old man.I cant stand that POS! Trying to down Manziel...I hope he kills your team one day.thinks hes a great GM..he picked up Peyton...wow!!! you saw what know other GM did old man.
keep taking all you doubters...
Are you going to let your boy toy shack up with you if his career washes out?
Are you going to let your boy toy shack up with you if his career washes out?
are you gonna like it when he does the money sign over top of pittsburg for some team?
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WTF is a money sign?
goes to show how old you are with a term like that.
dude you've got such a man crush.
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Honeslty id say im older than you..and Im dam sure I make more money than you...
I just like rattling some of yalls cages...but Johnneys gonna show all yall!
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very true, its almost as if he has more people against him just because of his fame than fanboys though. Why unrealistic at this point, though?@mike-h said:
A large portion of JFF fanboys make his legitimacy suffer.
Looking forward to the draft and seeing how it all plays out. Would like to see him in Cleveland, but it might be unrealistic.
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I agree with everything, except your certainty he'll be gone.@mike-h said:
I think he'll be gone by No. 4. He measures up to Russell Wilson, and Wilson paved the way proving talent and durability can overcome height shortcomings.
Trading up is what I meant by unrealistic, I'm not sure that's an option Farmer would support from what he's said so far. However, it could be smoke, as a lot of stuff around this process is. He's not going to say he's targeting Manziel, no matter how many ways he's asked the question.
No one has any idea other than Farmer and his staff, probably only Farmer and his upper level guys and Jimmy.
My guess is the odds are against JF playing for the Browns.
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I also dont think its unrealistic we trade up. If the Texans dont go QB, the Rams will be sitting there with our opportunity to hop Jacksonville for our pick of the litter. The price likely wouldnt be very high because the Rams wouldn't want to drop past 4(5?)to assure Watkins, Robinson or Matthews (maybe Clowney?). Jacksonville probably wouldnt drive the price up because theyd feel like they were bidding against a ghost. Raiders could possibly throw a wrench in there.
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I also dont think its unrealistic we trade up. If the Texans dont go QB, the Rams will be sitting there with our opportunity to hop Jacksonville for our pick of the litter. The price likely wouldnt be very high because the Rams wouldn't want to drop past 4(5?)to assure Watkins, Robinson or Matthews (maybe Clowney?). Jacksonville probably wouldnt drive the price up because theyd feel like they were bidding against a ghost. Raiders could possibly throw a wrench in there.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I also dont think its unrealistic we trade up. If the Texans dont go QB, the Rams will be sitting there with our opportunity to hop Jacksonville for our pick of the litter. The price likely wouldn't be very high because the Rams wouldn't want to drop past 4(5?)to assure Watkins, Robinson or Matthews (maybe Clowney?). Jacksonville probably wouldn't drive the price up because theyd feel like they were bidding against a ghost. Raiders could possibly throw a wrench in there.
You can look at the other way and say if they don't see a qb they like, no reason to trade up for that exact reason. And if they do decide to trade up- if they offer the pick hungry Rams anything more than a third (preferably the lower one) I'd be POed.
Seriously, any way you look at it- there's going to be a quality player there for the Browns @ #4.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I also dont think its unrealistic we trade up. If the Texans dont go QB, the Rams will be sitting there with our opportunity to hop Jacksonville for our pick of the litter. The price likely wouldn't be very high because the Rams wouldn't want to drop past 4(5?)to assure Watkins, Robinson or Matthews (maybe Clowney?). Jacksonville probably wouldn't drive the price up because theyd feel like they were bidding against a ghost. Raiders could possibly throw a wrench in there.
You can look at the other way and say if they don't see a qb they like, no reason to trade up for that exact reason. And if they do decide to trade up- if they offer the pick hungry Rams anything more than a third (preferably the lower one) I'd be POed.
Seriously, any way you look at it- there's going to be a quality player there for the Browns @ #4.
very true. Just saying its not unrealistic.You can look at the other way and say if they don't see a qb they like, no reason to trade up for that exact reason. And if they do decide to trade up- if they offer the pick hungry Rams anything more than a third (preferably the lower one) I'd be POed.
Seriously, any way you look at it- there's going to be a quality player there for the Browns @ #4.
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I wouldnt rule out OLine or ILB. Robinson, Mosely, possibly Mack.@walterwhite said:
It has to be a QB.
No way do you draft a pass rusher when you just selected Mingo and have Groves, Krueger, and Sheard on the roster.
No way do you draft a tackle when you have Joe Thomas and Schwartz on board.
I like Sammy Watkins and wouldn't'be upset if we picked him but this class is beyond deep at receiver.
You can land a quality #2 with the other 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
All 3 QB's have question marks but so did most Super Bowl winning QB prospects coming out of college.
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Are we giving Schwartz another year as starter then? I thought he was terrible last year, found myself shouting at him via my laptop screen most weeks
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the whole right side of the OL blows.
at this point i could give a shit who it is but i'm leaning more towards a trade down grab a pick or two, grab evans, use those picks to move up when we need to and just build the team RIGHT. i think farmer is one smart dude, so he could be blowing smoke but in his interview yesterday on NFL network he said one of the most important things that his new staff was going to be all about telling the fans the truth. so when he said if he had a choice between a small QB or a bigger guy he said he would take the bigger guy.
so for me, i won't be surprised at anything at this point.
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ActuallyI kinda like the kid and hope he does OK. Well to qualify I hope he does great if he comes to Cleveland and I hope he sucks canal water anywhere else. I guess that averages out to okay. And while I'm sure it's all been scripted in advance he sounds like a decent kid. Still a stretch at number four but so are the others.
WSS
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2014 NFL Mock Draft: Sticking with Blake Bortles at No. 1By Dan Kadar @MockingTheDraft on Feb 24 2014, 8:15a 12
It's NFL Scouting Combine week, which means some changes in the mock draft.
What happens at the NFL Scouting Combine can change how the draft will fall for reasons besides what happens in on the field drills. Coaches and general managers will say subtle things to the media they shouldn't. Information will come out about players that they'd probably keep quiet. And generally the rumor mill really takes off.
This mock draft isn't totally rebuilt based on what happened in Indianapolis, but there are clearly some players slotting into areas of the draft and what a team may do is becoming clearer.
Just one round this week, but look for something bigger and better next week from Matthew Fairburn. Remember, if you have a mock draft of your own, feel free to put it in the comments.
1. Houston Texans - Blake Bortles, QB, Central Florida - For whatever reason, Teddy Twatwater no longer seems to be in play for the Texans. If that leaves Houston choosing between Bortles, Johnny Manziel and Jadeveon Clowney, the Central Florida quarterback is the high-upside player. He would make a bigger impact on the franchise than Clowney would.
NFL Combine 2014
2. St. Louis Rams (viaWashington Redskins) - Greg Robinson, OT, Auburn -Robinson was a sensation at the combine, running the 40-yard dash in under five seconds. Personally watching Robinson work out two days before he ran, he's clearly an uncanny athlete. Robinson knows he has to get better with his handwork in pass protection, but he's pro-ready as a run blocker.
3. Jacksonville Jaguars - Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina - Clowney bench pressed 225 pounds just 21 times in Indianapolis, and it doesn't matter. Clowney's game is built on quickness. He fires off the ball and is capable of blitzing to the inside or the outside. The Jaguars are doing their due diligence on quarterbacks and if they don't like one, head coach Gus Bradley would figure out a way to take advantage of Clowney's talents.
4. Cleveland Browns - Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M - At the combine, Browns general manager Ray Farmer said his team could throw a "curveball" in the draft. There is no more wicked curve than Manziel. The former Heisman Trophy winner is even learning about the Browns extensively from quarterback coach George Whitfield, a Northeast Ohioan.
5. Oakland Raiders - Teddy Twatwater, QB, Louisville - Some questions arose about Bridgewater at the combine. Are his hands big enough? Why did he say he'd run the 40 and then suddenly back out? Even though those and some other issues have come up with Bridgewater, Oakland's need for a franchise quarterback supersedes them.
6. Atlanta Falcons - Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo - Don't expect the Falcons to be picking sixth in the draft. But in a mock draft where no trades are involved, it's difficult to pinpoint what the Falcons may do if Robinson and Clowney are gone. If that's the case, they may be choosing between Mack and offensive tackle Jake Matthews. Mack is the choice because he would add versatility to the defense. He can drop back in coverage, play the run and blitz the quarterback from the linebacker or defensive end positions.
7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Jake Matthews, OT, Texas A&M - At the combine, Buccaneers head coach Lovie Smith seemed content with the talent he has in place on defense. If that leaves Tampa to choose between the best offensive player on the board, it's Matthews in this scenario. It's not a fun pick, but Matthews is a plug-and-go for a decade lineman. Whether it's the left or right side, he'll be good.
8. Minnesota Vikings - Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri - Vikings general manager Rick Spielman stressed the importance of drafting a quarterback, but he also said he won't reach on one. Derek Carr would be a reach in the first round. Ealy is rising up the draft and would allow the Vikings to cheaply move on from Jared Allen.
9. Buffalo Bills - Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson - The Bills have added a lot of talent at wide receiver in recent seasons, but still don't have that true No. 1 player. Watkins represents that and is somewhat of a steal at this point.
10. Detroit Lions - Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M - While at the combine, new Lions head coach Jim Caldwell said he wants to find a way to take the pressure off Calvin Johnson. A player like Evans – an incredible bad ball catcher – would do just that and give Detroit arguably the best wide receiver duo in the NFL.
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look at evans #10 on that new mock and read his description....."an incredible bad ball catcher"........is all you need to know about manziel.
yeah he's learning about cleveland. what, that it snows? that the wind whips around the stadium like a beast? good to know. maybe he should go there before the winter ends and see how he likes it.
it's like someone from the south driving in a place where it never snows. has that usually turn out?
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@walterwhite said:
Come the fuck on dude, tons of QB's come from warm climates to play in Cold ones.
Aaron Rogers went from Chico, CA to Green Bay and did fine.
Brett Favre went from Southern Miss to Green Bay and did fine.
John Elway from Stanford to Mile High.
Eli Manning from Ole Miss to NYC
Andy Dalton from Texas to Cinci
The list goes on and on...
Yeah, Bret Favre came from Gulfport Mississippi and won like 46 games in a row in Green Bay where the temp was below 40.
Tough guys can play in any weather.
Jason Campbell seemed bothered by the weather last year ... don't think he's a tough guy.
Zombo
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