Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Yeah but Bortles is a big guy isn't he, JF is a rake, he'll get obliterated!
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Zombo said:
The guy with the best build ... Bortles ... is they guy I have the most doubts about this year among the top three.
I usually gravitate toward the big rocket guys ... but Manziel and Bridgewater do some much well that I think they are excellent prospects. I'd be happy if we drafted either one at #4.
Zombo
They do much better because they play in better systems with better players in College.
There are tons of 'great' players without the college numbers.
There are tons of 'not so good' players with college numbers.
In another word, those college highlights and numbers you see don't mean jack. Physical and mental have higher weight.
They do much better because they play in better systems with better players in College.
There are tons of 'great' players without the college numbers.
There are tons of 'not so good' players with college numbers.
In another word, those college highlights and numbers you see don't mean jack. Physical and mental have higher weight.
What's your point?
That I can't tell jackshit about players by watching them play and reading scouting reports?
Zombo
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We all know what Manziel brings, but Cooks came out of nowhere at the combine and posted a 4.33 40-yard dash--best overall for wide receivers.
Odell Beckham Jr., another possible choice with our second 1st round pick posted a 4.43--same as Watkins.
We all know what Manziel brings, but Cooks came out of nowhere at the combine and posted a 4.33 40-yard dash--best overall for wide receivers.
Odell Beckham Jr., another possible choice with our second 1st round pick posted a 4.43--same as Watkins.
I wouldn't be thrilled with either. I prefer a QB at the bottom of the 1st top of the 2nd although Bortles intrigues me a bit at the top of the 1st round. For the WR Cooks straight line speed was impressive but for overall WR skill sets I believe there are a host of better options.
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@walterwhite said:
I swear Browns fans are blinded by this stereotype that you have to be 6'4 230 pounds and have a rocket arm to succeed in a cold climate
It is not really a stereotype if it is true.
Look at the QBs in this division: All about the size you mention.
Can a Brian Sipe sized person succeed? Obviously.
But when it comes to playing the odds, the big strong QB seems to have a better chance than the smaller type.
I don't know, but I would probably bet that Russell Wilson is one of the 2 or 3 shortest QBs ever to win a SB.
But a lot of 6/4 6/5 guys have.
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Speed alone is helpful, but history has shown that speed alone doesn't make a great receiver. David Heyward-Bey, Renaldo Nehemiah....even Ted Ginn Jr. all couldn't quite reach elite receiver level on speed alone.
Do we need a field stretcher? Sure. Is Travis Benjamin our man for that job? He was till he got hurt. Do we need more speed?
You can never have enough speed.
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You'd think some olympic sprinters who aren't going to finish higher than 10th ever would consider playing some NFL if speed were all that was required.
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UCF has come out of nowhere to become impact in the last 2+ years. Bortles didn't do it by himself. I like him tho.
More important is the OL like Tox (iirc) said. Fleet footed guards help the read/option threat.
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@walterwhite said:
I swear Browns fans are blinded by this stereotype that you have to be 6'4 230 pounds and have a rocket arm to succeed in a cold climate
It is not really a stereotype if it is true.
Look at the QBs in this division: All about the size you mention.
Can a Brian Sipe sized person succeed? Obviously.
But when it comes to playing the odds, the big strong QB seems to have a better chance than the smaller type.
I don't know, but I would probably bet that Russell Wilson is one of the 2 or 3 shortest QBs ever to win a SB.
But a lot of 6/4 6/5 guys have.
How can you say a small QB wont work if it hasnt really been tried? Big QBs usually have big hands and you used to be a lot bigger to take all those hits. With the new rules favoring QBs, it makes it a little easier for the small guys.It is not really a stereotype if it is true.
Look at the QBs in this division: All about the size you mention.
Can a Brian Sipe sized person succeed? Obviously.
But when it comes to playing the odds, the big strong QB seems to have a better chance than the smaller type.
I don't know, but I would probably bet that Russell Wilson is one of the 2 or 3 shortest QBs ever to win a SB.
But a lot of 6/4 6/5 guys have.
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UCF has come out of nowhere to become impact in the last 2+ years. Bortles didn't do it by himself. I like him tho.
More important is the OL like Tox (iirc) said. Fleet footed guards help the read/option threat.
I think Robinson would help this team more than any player thats not a QB. If you have him, Thomas, and Mack, I could gain 4 ypc. If we draft Manziel Id still want to stay away from the read option as anything more than a ploy to keep d's thinking/honest.UCF has come out of nowhere to become impact in the last 2+ years. Bortles didn't do it by himself. I like him tho.
More important is the OL like Tox (iirc) said. Fleet footed guards help the read/option threat.
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We all know what Manziel brings, but Cooks came out of nowhere at the combine and posted a 4.33 40-yard dash--best overall for wide receivers.
Odell Beckham Jr., another possible choice with our second 1st round pick posted a 4.43--same as Watkins.
We all know what Manziel brings, but Cooks came out of nowhere at the combine and posted a 4.33 40-yard dash--best overall for wide receivers.
Odell Beckham Jr., another possible choice with our second 1st round pick posted a 4.43--same as Watkins.
ABM, In beer, it's Anything but Miller. Football. Anything but Manziel.
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How can you say a small QB wont work if it hasnt really been tried? Big QBs usually have big hands and you used to be a lot bigger to take all those hits. With the new rules favoring QBs, it makes it a little easier for the small guys.It is not really a stereotype if it is true.
Look at the QBs in this division: All about the size you mention.
Can a Brian Sipe sized person succeed? Obviously.
But when it comes to playing the odds, the big strong QB seems to have a better chance than the smaller type.
I don't know, but I would probably bet that Russell Wilson is one of the 2 or 3 shortest QBs ever to win a SB.
But a lot of 6/4 6/5 guys have.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
How can you say a small QB wont work if it hasnt really been tried? Big QBs usually have big hands and you used to be a lot bigger to take all those hits. With the new rules favoring QBs, it makes it a little easier for the small guys.
I am saying that as a general rule the taller QB is going to be more successful in the NFL than the smaller QB....with notable obvious exception. Wilson is one of those, Brees too.
Is there a prejudice? Sure, after all short people got no reason to live.
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You'd think some olympic sprinters who aren't going to finish higher than 10th ever would consider playing some NFL if speed were all that was required.
You'd think some olympic sprinters who aren't going to finish higher than 10th ever would consider playing some NFL if speed were all that was required.
There is another reason that those Olympic sprinters don't consider playing football: Linebackers/strong safeties. Those guys are allowed to hit you. Hard. And often.
If a sprinter can make decent money running in a straight line and not get slobberknockered, they take it.
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one of farmer's biggest points in his interview was to get the players to fit the coaches system.
i really doubt doubt doubt it, that pettine is a run option guy, even though shanahan had RG3 in washington, i believe pettine would put a halt to that shit right away even if we were to draft manziel which i highly doubt at this point.
bortles stock rose after the combine yesterday, as did other guys. sure manziel ran......oooooh. yeah he was the fastest QB, he'll need it. too bad he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.
bridgewater did shit.
everyone from the ex-greats on the field to the commentators said that those guys were getting bad advice and that they'd rather have a guy that would be up to the challenge at anytime to pick up a ball and sling it.
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beckham is a small fast guy. don't we already have one of those in T. Benjamin?
i'd do what it'd take to land evans. trade down get evans and a couple of picks to move back up to get dennard.
roll with hoyer. hell i could throw to evans and gordon and look like a superstar.
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one of farmer's biggest points in his interview was to get the players to fit the coaches system.
i really doubt doubt doubt it, that pettine is a run option guy, even though shanahan had RG3 in washington, i believe pettine would put a halt to that shit right away even if we were to draft manziel which i highly doubt at this point.
bortles stock rose after the combine yesterday, as did other guys. sure manziel ran......oooooh. yeah he was the fastest QB, he'll need it. too bad he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.
bridgewater did shit.
everyone from the ex-greats on the field to the commentators said that those guys were getting bad advice and that they'd rather have a guy that would be up to the challenge at anytime to pick up a ball and sling it.
I think Bortles definitely made a ballsy move by throwing, but I cant fault these guys for not throwing. When youre projected top ten already, how can throwing benefit you? The only thing it can do is hurt you, if you look out of sync with recievers youve never thrown to before. Ive seen all these guys throw enough, and they'll throw in front of scouts at their pro days.one of farmer's biggest points in his interview was to get the players to fit the coaches system.
i really doubt doubt doubt it, that pettine is a run option guy, even though shanahan had RG3 in washington, i believe pettine would put a halt to that shit right away even if we were to draft manziel which i highly doubt at this point.
bortles stock rose after the combine yesterday, as did other guys. sure manziel ran......oooooh. yeah he was the fastest QB, he'll need it. too bad he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.
bridgewater did shit.
everyone from the ex-greats on the field to the commentators said that those guys were getting bad advice and that they'd rather have a guy that would be up to the challenge at anytime to pick up a ball and sling it.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
How can you say a small QB wont work if it hasnt really been tried? Big QBs usually have big hands and you used to be a lot bigger to take all those hits. With the new rules favoring QBs, it makes it a little easier for the small guys.
I am saying that as a general rule the taller QB is going to be more successful in the NFL than the smaller QB....with notable obvious exception. Wilson is one of those, Brees too.
Is there a prejudice? Sure, after all short people got no reason to live.
Manziel's slightly taller than me : ( Another general rule is that short guys have small hands. Nothing about Manziel is general imo.I am saying that as a general rule the taller QB is going to be more successful in the NFL than the smaller QB....with notable obvious exception. Wilson is one of those, Brees too.
Is there a prejudice? Sure, after all short people got no reason to live.
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beckham is a small fast guy. don't we already have one of those in T. Benjamin?
i'd do what it'd take to land evans. trade down get evans and a couple of picks to move back up to get dennard.
roll with hoyer. hell i could throw to evans and gordon and look like a superstar.
Beckham actually has some meat on his bones and I wouldnt fear for his life every time he catches the ball like I do with Benji haha. Evans would be great, but if we dont grab him at 4 he'll be gone before the teens.beckham is a small fast guy. don't we already have one of those in T. Benjamin?
i'd do what it'd take to land evans. trade down get evans and a couple of picks to move back up to get dennard.
roll with hoyer. hell i could throw to evans and gordon and look like a superstar.
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Beckham actually has some meat on his bones and I wouldnt fear for his life every time he catches the ball like I do with Benji haha. Evans would be great, but if we dont grab him at 4 he'll be gone before the teens.beckham is a small fast guy. don't we already have one of those in T. Benjamin?
i'd do what it'd take to land evans. trade down get evans and a couple of picks to move back up to get dennard.
roll with hoyer. hell i could throw to evans and gordon and look like a superstar.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Beckham actually has some meat on his bones and I wouldnt fear for his life every time he catches the ball like I do with Benji haha. Evans would be great, but if we dont grab him at 4 he'll be gone before the teens.
but that's why you trade down to where you hope and pray the guy is still there (diehard showed a new mock with him going @10 to detroit) so you'd hope to find a trade partner 2-3 spots below us and get what we can, picks wise for the move. i'm not advocating trading out of the top ten at all.
i was impressed with beckham's speed and his hands, but won't he be there in the later rounds? and there were plenty of others that impresed me as well.
clowney disappointed me with his bench press meaning he hasn't been really doing any strength training knowing the combines were coming up and that shows lack of commitment (which a lot of you were saying all along). and i'm not sold on any of the top 3 QBs so if the OL is gone i'd trade down.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Beckham actually has some meat on his bones and I wouldnt fear for his life every time he catches the ball like I do with Benji haha. Evans would be great, but if we dont grab him at 4 he'll be gone before the teens.
but that's why you trade down to where you hope and pray the guy is still there (diehard showed a new mock with him going @10 to detroit) so you'd hope to find a trade partner 2-3 spots below us and get what we can, picks wise for the move. i'm not advocating trading out of the top ten at all.
i was impressed with beckham's speed and his hands, but won't he be there in the later rounds? and there were plenty of others that impresed me as well.
clowney disappointed me with his bench press meaning he hasn't been really doing any strength training knowing the combines were coming up and that shows lack of commitment (which a lot of you were saying all along). and i'm not sold on any of the top 3 QBs so if the OL is gone i'd trade down.
Id say Beckham goes late 1st/2nd. I think we should draft a reciever in the third. I like the Charles Johnson guy a lot we picked up from Packers mid season, so between Gordon, Our third rounder (Abberderis, Landry, Martavis Bryant), Benjamin, Cameron, and Johnson I think wed be set at reciever. I dont think theres any scenario we should trade down. If we dont go QB @4 I want Robinson, Mosely, or Clowney (possibly Mack if he fits at ILB, which I think he be great).but that's why you trade down to where you hope and pray the guy is still there (diehard showed a new mock with him going @10 to detroit) so you'd hope to find a trade partner 2-3 spots below us and get what we can, picks wise for the move. i'm not advocating trading out of the top ten at all.
i was impressed with beckham's speed and his hands, but won't he be there in the later rounds? and there were plenty of others that impresed me as well.
clowney disappointed me with his bench press meaning he hasn't been really doing any strength training knowing the combines were coming up and that shows lack of commitment (which a lot of you were saying all along). and i'm not sold on any of the top 3 QBs so if the OL is gone i'd trade down.
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