Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Positives:
The dude has always been, and still is, accurate.
He's using his mobility sparingly, but for the most part, correctly.
He's reading blitzes and hitting hot reads..
He's making good audibles.
No huge mistakes.
Everyone says baby steps, and that's true, but he's made great strides since last season. Consider that he improves as much in the next two years. That's something to look forward to.
He's not there, not close. But he's 22 and seemingly doing things the right way. I'm excited to see where it leads.
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i was liking manziel until he made some typical 'johnny' mistakes. man if we only had some WRs that could out-jump the defenders.......(HMMM)
nothing has changed. mccown will be the starter and until manziel out performs in practice, on the field, or in the film room that's the way it'll be barring injury.
what we really need to talk about is the RB position......
but that's for another thread.
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Josh McCown is nothing more than Jake Delhomme or Trent Dilfer. He's a washed up journeyman.
Manziel needs to sit and learn the NFL for one more year.
By the way, it would be nice to see him get some reps with the first team in a meaningless game.
Josh McCown is an absolute fuckin bore
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Manziel should and will start this season, for all our sakes hopefully game 1 vs. New York. There is no reason to continue to keep our best playmaker on the sidelines in favor of another journeyman retread. Manziel should start just like Bortles, Carr and Bridgewater. He's already a year behind those other guys. Quit delaying the inevitable and play the fucking kid.
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Manziel should and will start this season, for all our sakes hopefully game 1 vs. New York. There is no reason to continue to keep our best playmaker on the sidelines in favor of another journeyman retread. Manziel should start just like Bortles, Carr and Bridgewater. He's already a year behind those other guys. Quit delaying the inevitable and play the fucking kid.
Manziel should and will start this season, for all our sakes hopefully game 1 vs. New York. There is no reason to continue to keep our best playmaker on the sidelines in favor of another journeyman retread. Manziel should start just like Bortles, Carr and Bridgewater. He's already a year behind those other guys. Quit delaying the inevitable and play the fucking kid.
Glad you're not in charge.
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1 preseason game at a time.
It's hard to tell what anything translates to in preseason lineups. For example, we're not going to have Bademosi starting at corner over Joe Haden when a QB the caliber of Taylor completes a 3rd and long throw into a first down conversion.
What I saw from Manziel was encouraging progress with room for improvement. Like Gruden said - it was against a lot of blitzing. His critics will ask who did he play against almost as if they don't want you to acknowledge he was throwing to backups and counting on backup pass protectors (some that won't make this team). Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
Now there were some things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
The QB situation will play itself out. No need for time lines. We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. Unlike Weeden at age 30, he already knows he can throw a football out of bounds when/if the situation presents it. Even better, football looked like it was fun for him again. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
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i was liking manziel until he made some typical 'johnny' mistakes. man if we only had some WRs that could out-jump the defenders.......(HMMM)
nothing has changed. mccown will be the starter and until manziel out performs in practice, on the field, or in the film room that's the way it'll be barring injury.
what we really need to talk about is the RB position......
but that's for another thread.
i was liking manziel until he made some typical 'johnny' mistakes. man if we only had some WRs that could out-jump the defenders.......(HMMM)
nothing has changed. mccown will be the starter and until manziel out performs in practice, on the field, or in the film room that's the way it'll be barring injury.
Two of those "Johnny mistakes" were dropped passes by Mayle, a huge disappointment for a 4th rounder. The first would have given us a 1st down at around the 720 mark. Johnny's "mistake" went right over the fingers of the DB and into the hands of Mayle who had failed to get a full jump on the ball to pick it out of the air. Still hit him in the hands and he dropped it. The last one was at the 015 mark he clearly just muffs the 4th down grab. The rest of his "mistakes" kept overcoming other team mistakes which kept moving us backwards. Go review the last drive in slow mo. He was running to find time because his porous OL could not find a way to contain the blitzers. Would you prefer he just take the hit and not try to buy time?
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the glaring 'mistakes' i'm talking about is stare down #1 receiver and when it's not there take off and run.
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Im good with how Johnny played, but have gone back and watched that last series several times now.....and would point out that there WERE receivers scrambling to get open and a wide WIDE open Bibbs(right across the middle) that he did not even see.....shoulda been an easy toss for a first down.....
So, yeah, WR's should scramble when the QB scrambles....but he needs to see them when they do....
Lets not get carried away and start blaming everyone else, as if JFF was great and they weren't......goes both ways
Plus, lots of other errors to go around on that drive......Ervings mistake cost us big....Mayles drops cost us...OL didnt protect....and JFF didnt see his open receiver.....
And......Joe Rankin(who???).....cost us TWICE......with a pass interference in the endzone and a facemask on Wynns long return.....so, I say, cut him NOW!!!!.....
Who the hell is Joe Rankin anyway???
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I was listening to Goldhammer be an idiot yesterday, and I'm beginning to believe it's his angle to wrile people up and draw attention to his show. He was talking about how bad mccown was and how good Manziel was, without even mentioning that they were playing in completely different situations. Mccown was playing against starters in a really good defense with a great defensive coach.
Manziel, on the other hand was playing against guys that probably won't even make an NFL roster. the only thing more worthless than preseason football is 4th quarter preseason football. We all know Manziel is good against college level talent. I want to see what he has against NFL starters.
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i've moved WAY off my anti-manziel stance and see there is some promise in the kid
BUT
can the media lay off him? i mean at this point in his career (and life) i really think he doesn't want the attention and over-glorification that was piled on him like last year. before the game on thursday ESPN, all they could talk about (again) was manziel....not mccown, not the new draft picks, not the defense.......all johnny football again. like they didn't learn their lesson from last year. i guess you have to have a cigar blow up in your face twice to not light it a 3rd time.
crack heads.
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I was listening to Goldhammer be an idiot yesterday, and I'm beginning to believe it's his angle to wrile people up and draw attention to his show. He was talking about how bad mccown was and how good Manziel was, without even mentioning that they were playing in completely different situations. Mccown was playing against starters in a really good defense with a great defensive coach.
Manziel, on the other hand was playing against guys that probably won't even make an NFL roster. the only thing more worthless than preseason football is 4th quarter preseason football. We all know Manziel is good against college level talent. I want to see what he has against NFL starters.
Manziel, I want to see what he has against NFL starters.
Not gonna happen as long as McCown is healthy.
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i've moved WAY off my anti-manziel stance and see there is some promise in the kid
BUT
can the media lay off him? i mean at this point in his career (and life) i really think he doesn't want the attention and over-glorification that was piled on him like last year. before the game on thursday ESPN, all they could talk about (again) was manziel....not mccown, not the new draft picks, not the defense.......all johnny football again. like they didn't learn their lesson from last year. i guess you have to have a cigar blow up in your face twice to not light it a 3rd time.
crack heads.
can the media lay off him?
The answer, mik, is "No, they can't."
Media will do all it can to revive JFF. Christ... in the build up to the Bills' game they were using JM's image to frame the game. When is the last time a 2nd-string QB was used to try to raise viewership?
And you had to know a "QB Controversy" was going to be the topic of the week (weak?). I'm tired of it already...
But my reaction does not matter...
There's only one that does...
Keep your head down and keep working Johnny-boy!
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I was listening to Goldhammer be an idiot yesterday, and I'm beginning to believe it's his angle to wrile people up and draw attention to his show. He was talking about how bad mccown was and how good Manziel was, without even mentioning that they were playing in completely different situations. Mccown was playing against starters in a really good defense with a great defensive coach.
Manziel, on the other hand was playing against guys that probably won't even make an NFL roster. the only thing more worthless than preseason football is 4th quarter preseason football. We all know Manziel is good against college level talent. I want to see what he has against NFL starters.
Manziel, on the other hand was playing against guys that probably won't even make an NFL roster. the only thing more worthless than preseason football is 4th quarter preseason football. We all know Manziel is good against college level talent. I want to see what he has against NFL starters.
Let's not take it all too far out of context. If you're gonna stand firmly behind Johnny's performance was against backups and scrubs - you need to acknowledge who he was throwing to, handing off to and being protected by up-front. As I said at the bottom of the previous page of this thread - the progress looks encouraging while there's always room for young QBs to improve in this league. Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
There were some worthwhile things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
i've moved WAY off my anti-manziel stance and see there is some promise in the kid
BUT
can the media lay off him? i mean at this point in his career (and life) i really think he doesn't want the attention and over-glorification that was piled on him like last year. before the game on thursday ESPN, all they could talk about (again) was manziel....not mccown, not the new draft picks, not the defense.......all johnny football again. like they didn't learn their lesson from last year. i guess you have to have a cigar blow up in your face twice to not light it a 3rd time.
crack heads.
i've moved WAY off my anti-manziel stance and see there is some promise in the kid
BUT
can the media lay off him? i mean at this point in his career (and life) i really think he doesn't want the attention and over-glorification that was piled on him like last year. before the game on thursday ESPN, all they could talk about (again) was manziel....not mccown, not the new draft picks, not the defense.......all johnny football again. like they didn't learn their lesson from last year. i guess you have to have a cigar blow up in your face twice to not light it a 3rd time.
crack heads.
Good to see you have come around. No they will not back off him, just like Tebow. Once you're famous they will continue circling like vultures... because either way, he sells. Whether he flames out, he still gets clicks for a while.
JM and the organization has to be used to by it now, and so do we.
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Manziel, on the other hand was playing against guys that probably won't even make an NFL roster. the only thing more worthless than preseason football is 4th quarter preseason football. We all know Manziel is good against college level talent. I want to see what he has against NFL starters.
Let's not take it all too far out of context. If you're gonna stand firmly behind Johnny's performance was against backups and scrubs - you need to acknowledge who he was throwing to, handing off to and being protected by up-front. As I said at the bottom of the previous page of this thread - the progress looks encouraging while there's always room for young QBs to improve in this league. Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
There were some worthwhile things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
Let's not take it all too far out of context. If you're gonna stand firmly behind Johnny's performance was against backups and scrubs - you need to acknowledge who he was throwing to, handing off to and being protected by up-front. As I said at the bottom of the previous page of this thread - the progress looks encouraging while there's always room for young QBs to improve in this league. Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
There were some worthwhile things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
Good reply.
I heard some analyst say this about Kirk Cousins, so I'll apply it here.
If Manziel is succeeding versus the 2s and 3s, doesn't that mean it's possible he's a 1?
Hmm
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i've moved WAY off my anti-manziel stance and see there is some promise in the kid
BUT
can the media lay off him? i mean at this point in his career (and life) i really think he doesn't want the attention and over-glorification that was piled on him like last year. before the game on thursday ESPN, all they could talk about (again) was manziel....not mccown, not the new draft picks, not the defense.......all johnny football again. like they didn't learn their lesson from last year. i guess you have to have a cigar blow up in your face twice to not light it a 3rd time.
crack heads.
Good to see you have come around. No they will not back off him, just like Tebow. Once you're famous they will continue circling like vultures... because either way, he sells. Whether he flames out, he still gets clicks for a while.
JM and the organization has to be used to by it now, and so do we.
Good to see you have come around. No they will not back off him, just like Tebow. Once you're famous they will continue circling like vultures... because either way, he sells. Whether he flames out, he still gets clicks for a while.
JM and the organization has to be used to by it now, and so do we.
Totally agree there will be no back off, but "has to be used to it" is easier said by a backer, Mike.
Still aggravating as hell to me. More so for the fact that it could be detrimental to the continued growth of JM, who I would argue has not yet faced the hype that is being revived.
As for the organization... so much individual variability there that predicting its response en masse is a fool's errand.
Bottom line: Nothing positive can come from a JFF revival.
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can the media lay off him?
The answer, mik, is "No, they can't."
Media will do all it can to revive JFF. Christ... in the build up to the Bills' game they were using JM's image to frame the game. When is the last time a 2nd-string QB was used to try to raise viewership?
And you had to know a "QB Controversy" was going to be the topic of the week (weak?). I'm tired of it already...
But my reaction does not matter...
There's only one that does...
Keep your head down and keep working Johnny-boy!
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I'd love to see Johnny sit this year, get better, learn the offense, and build up the arm like Drew Brees did for several years.
The players who have disappointed so far are: Mayle, The RB's, The TE's except Bibbs, and Cam Erving.
It's water under the bridge but I can see The Ravens TE Maxx Williams being the next Gronk, he was the guy I wanted in the 2nd
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