Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
My Son reminded me the other day of the Draft Party & this old guy jumping up on a chair in jubilation when we picked Johnny. I understood that he was an immature kid & hoped he would "grow out" of many of his off field antics. What I found enticing were his dynamic physical skills, intelligence, & intangibles. A few folks a whole lot more knowledgeable than I have given pretty lofty endorsements of this kid as previously mentioned. I also recall Dick LeBeau saying "What this kid did in college is no mistake".
While Johnny disappointed many of us by wasting last year, he has "manned up" & is going about his business the right way in this, basically his rookie season. The Browns have supported him & he has a fine mentor & life example in Josh McCown. When it's Johnny's time to play, I believe he'll be fine.
We'll see.
Mike
-
I certainly want to see Manziel succeed and am happy that he is committing himself but like I said: we know he is good against college level players, and at tamu he played WITH lot of college level players. He had Mike Evans but most of the guys who played offense with Manziel are nowhere near an NFL roster. Mccown was being pressured by guys like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus, Johnny was being pressured by guys that will be working as bouncers in the flats this September.
Not saying John Manziel can't be a franchise guy, I'm saying he needs to show it to me while playing real football games against real NFL players.
I agree with your last point above. That said, he's only had 2 NFL starts at age 21 so we're pretty much on the second sentence of the introduction page of his story. If they cut Troy Aikman, Drew Brees, Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers, Steve McNair, Tom Brady (who wore blue jeans to his first 16 NFL games), Warren Moon, Joe Theisman based on the lack of accomplishments before age 22 - we're gonna erase a ton of Pro Bowl QBs from the history of this league. It would have been nice to see John Elway's NFL career end after his rookie year because that told us absolutely nothing about who he was going to be. Not saying this is you; but I don't know why some guys can't wait to remind us they predicted Manziel would struggle or not make it at all. Is that something new about rookie QBs in Cleveland?
Before I go any further Royce - you're definitely not the only fan that thinks "yeah, but he only did it against backups." I'm just using your post as an ideal opportunity to clarify something about that. Some of our first paragraph above is only addressing 50% of the picture. I'm fully aware of who was defending McCown just like I'm aware he had starters to throw to, hand off to and protect him upfront. What you keep choosing to miss is Manziel was protected by and throwing to backups, practice squad hopefuls and guys that will be cut. The good news is he played well with that especially considering the guys that tend to mess up routes/blitz adjustments, backfield protections and just assignments in general are newbies and inexperienced players. You want your QB to be able to get the ball to the hands of the receivers. One guy dropped a couple while others caught the ball and increased their chances of making the team.
I think Joe Thomas got it right when he talked about how fun/exciting it was to watch. That's a credible team leader giving hard work and preparation a stamp of approval. Since you bring up college - Manziel never really had to spend time in the film room to ace the gig so is it conceivable we may be looking at a bigger ceiling if he remains studious while the game slows down? I hope so. Also, Gruden said at one point Rex had Buffalo blitzing Manziel on every play and I liked how he handled it so people can't break out the "he only did it against vanilla" excuse. There's still a lot of work to be done for this 22 year old work in progress and we agree on that.
A&M had a decent volume offensive guys drafted. They had LTs drafted in upper round 1 in back to back drafts. Ryan Swope was also drafted by Miami but a couple more concussions ended his NFL career before it ever got off the ground. At the time, Manziel was only doing this against college players - wasn't A&M warned that the caliber of the SEC opponents they were now going to face was stockpiling the NFL draft at much higher rates than any other conference? It's a good thing they showed up to their games anyway because what other team was going to beat Nick Saban's National Champions in Alabama? That was my first impression of a QB that I thought was being over-hyped beforehand. What I remembered most was a QB elevating everyone's game around him enough to beat an opponent they weren't supposed to beat (using Swope as his weapon of mass destruction that day). Kind of like Kosar beating Nebraska or Rodgers beating USC or Montana beating Texas. If a guy is going to be drafted by a team that went 4-12 - it's nice to see he's already been beating more talented teams he wasn't supposed to.
What you keep choosing to miss is Manziel was protected by and throwing to backups, practice squad hopefuls and guys that will be cut. The good news is he played well with that especially considering the guys that tend to mess up routes/blitz adjustments, backfield protections and just assignments in general are newbies and inexperienced players. You want your QB to be able to get the ball to the hands of the receivers. One guy dropped a couple while others caught the ball and increased their chances of making the team.
I'm not choosing to miss anything, I addressed that he was playing against and WITH non-NFL talent. I also pointed out that for the most part, minus a few exceptions, he played against and with non-NFL talent in college. We know he is successful at that level, and I hope he's successful at the NFL level. We are all tired of QB purgatory, but I'm done crowning QBs based on preseason.
-
What you keep choosing to miss is Manziel was protected by and throwing to backups, practice squad hopefuls and guys that will be cut. The good news is he played well with that especially considering the guys that tend to mess up routes/blitz adjustments, backfield protections and just assignments in general are newbies and inexperienced players. You want your QB to be able to get the ball to the hands of the receivers. One guy dropped a couple while others caught the ball and increased their chances of making the team.
I'm not choosing to miss anything, I addressed that he was playing against and WITH non-NFL talent. I also pointed out that for the most part, minus a few exceptions, he played against and with non-NFL talent in college. We know he is successful at that level, and I hope he's successful at the NFL level. We are all tired of QB purgatory, but I'm done crowning QBs based on preseason.
I'm not choosing to miss anything, I addressed that he was playing against and WITH non-NFL talent. I also pointed out that for the most part, minus a few exceptions, he played against and with non-NFL talent in college. We know he is successful at that level, and I hope he's successful at the NFL level. We are all tired of QB purgatory, but I'm done crowning QBs based on preseason.
I used cut and paste of your comments both times I replied to them on page 46 and again on page 47. Neither one of those had you acknowledging who Manziel was teaming up with against Buffalo's scrubs or there would have never been any reason to clarify that to you in the first place. Cut and paste is a courtesy making you in charge of your own comments. Go back and read both of those I replied to so you can see what I'm telling you here.
-
What you keep choosing to miss is Manziel was protected by and throwing to backups, practice squad hopefuls and guys that will be cut. The good news is he played well with that especially considering the guys that tend to mess up routes/blitz adjustments, backfield protections and just assignments in general are newbies and inexperienced players. You want your QB to be able to get the ball to the hands of the receivers. One guy dropped a couple while others caught the ball and increased their chances of making the team.
I'm not choosing to miss anything, I addressed that he was playing against and WITH non-NFL talent. I also pointed out that for the most part, minus a few exceptions, he played against and with non-NFL talent in college. We know he is successful at that level, and I hope he's successful at the NFL level. We are all tired of QB purgatory, but I'm done crowning QBs based on preseason.
I'm not choosing to miss anything, I addressed that he was playing against and WITH non-NFL talent. I also pointed out that for the most part, minus a few exceptions, he played against and with non-NFL talent in college. We know he is successful at that level, and I hope he's successful at the NFL level. We are all tired of QB purgatory, but I'm done crowning QBs based on preseason.
You are conveniently ignoring that he WAS playing with and against quite a few players with NFL talent. The SEC West is NFL Jr. according to just about any source you want to go to on the subject.
"The SEC led the way with 54 total draftees this year, which gives the league a national-best 246 picks in the past five drafts."
-
cmon guys...the sec is nowhere near the level of the NFL.....heck, those 3rd team NFLers would slay any SEC team.....and 1st team NFLers would slay any 2nd-3rd team NFLers....soooooo.....
You aint playing with or against real NFL talent until you play 1st team NFL talent using 1st team NFL talent.....across the board.....
-
Manziel aggravated his throwing arm again today. Watched him hit Lenz on a deep pass and he walked off the field with his head down.
Steve Doerschuk said he'll sit Monday and Tuesday to rest, practice Weds/Thurs and play Sat.
-
The real test will be if he gets his game back...plays GREAT.....and becomes Johnny Football again....
Hopefully, he keeps his head on straight and doesnt get too full of himself......or turn back into jerk.....
But thats something Id definitely like to find out!!!!!
What we want is the JF that plays the game on a highly competitive level but is able to handle it as JM once the game is over. We see signs that this is in process of becoming reality on both accounts. You have to admit that when he's back there on a real excellent drive, he is very entertaining to watch operating as JFF. The media can't let that go any more than they could Tebow Time. And truthfully none of us really does when it's really clicking on all 8 with the crowd right there behind them. Damn it's fun to watch. Nothing more fun than yelling, "NO, NO, NO, NO, NO............Holy Shit how'd you do that you little fucker?" That long pass on the run to his left to set up the TD is a great example. There was another guy open much closer, but he went for all the marbles with a pro catch on the other end of it by Jennings.
What we want is the JF that plays the game on a highly competitive level but is able to handle it as JM once the game is over. We see signs that this is in process of becoming reality on both accounts. You have to admit that when he's back there on a real excellent drive, he is very entertaining to watch operating as JFF. The media can't let that go any more than they could Tebow Time. And truthfully none of us really does when it's really clicking on all 8 with the crowd right there behind them. Damn it's fun to watch. Nothing more fun than yelling, "NO, NO, NO, NO, NO............Holy Shit how'd you do that you little fucker?" That long pass on the run to his left to set up the TD is a great example. There was another guy open much closer, but he went for all the marbles with a pro catch on the other end of it by Jennings.
If there was a single example of a successful "No, No, No..." play, then I missed it.
The most exciting play of the nite was JM stepping up into the pocket and firing a TD to an open Jennings that he found, not followed from the snap, but found heading to the back, right corner. That was JM. There was no JFF in that play.
Whether on or off the field, JFF is an undisciplined kid. JFF will never achieve long-term success in this man's league. On the other hand JM has a chance to become an NFL QB. Sure the media wants JFF. He's better copy. But as fans we should all want JM...
Maybe that's the difference between us, Ag... you miss JFF and I want to see JM... on as well as off the field.
-
cmon guys...the sec is nowhere near the level of the NFL.....heck, those 3rd team NFLers would slay any SEC team.....and 1st team NFLers would slay any 2nd-3rd team NFLers....soooooo.....
You aint playing with or against real NFL talent until you play 1st team NFL talent using 1st team NFL talent.....across the board.....
cmon guys...the sec is nowhere near the level of the NFL.....heck, those 3rd team NFLers would slay any SEC team.....and 1st team NFLers would slay any 2nd-3rd team NFLers....soooooo.....
You aint playing with or against real NFL talent until you play 1st team NFL talent using 1st team NFL talent.....across the board.....
Agreed. Let's get this back on track here.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Manziel aggravated his throwing arm again today. Watched him hit Lenz on a deep pass and he walked off the field with his head down.
Steve Doerschuk said he'll sit Monday and Tuesday to rest, practice Weds/Thurs and play Sat.
Manziel aggravated his throwing arm again today. Watched him hit Lenz on a deep pass and he walked off the field with his head down.
Steve Doerschuk said he'll sit Monday and Tuesday to rest, practice Weds/Thurs and play Sat.
Only having two healthy arms at this point in camp is a concern. Pryor needs every rep he can get with the wrs, so he is not an option, I wonder if we bring in another arm just for practice.
Z
-
What we want is the JF that plays the game on a highly competitive level but is able to handle it as JM once the game is over. We see signs that this is in process of becoming reality on both accounts. You have to admit that when he's back there on a real excellent drive, he is very entertaining to watch operating as JFF. The media can't let that go any more than they could Tebow Time. And truthfully none of us really does when it's really clicking on all 8 with the crowd right there behind them. Damn it's fun to watch. Nothing more fun than yelling, "NO, NO, NO, NO, NO............Holy Shit how'd you do that you little fucker?" That long pass on the run to his left to set up the TD is a great example. There was another guy open much closer, but he went for all the marbles with a pro catch on the other end of it by Jennings.
If there was a single example of a successful "No, No, No..." play, then I missed it.
The most exciting play of the nite was JM stepping up into the pocket and firing a TD to an open Jennings that he found, not followed from the snap, but found heading to the back, right corner. That was JM. There was no JFF in that play.
Whether on or off the field, JFF is an undisciplined kid. JFF will never achieve long-term success in this man's league. On the other hand JM has a chance to become an NFL QB. Sure the media wants JFF. He's better copy. But as fans we should all want JM...
Maybe that's the difference between us, Ag... you miss JFF and I want to see JM... on as well as off the field.
Maybe that's the difference between us, Ag... you miss JFF and I want to see JM... on as well as off the field.
LOL! We just see JF from a different perspective. I have felt all along he was becoming the more complete QB from his Heisman season forward. And when I watch him skip out of a sure tackle or throw back across his body running full speed left, I get both JM and JF at the same time. Best of both worlds.
-
cmon guys...the sec is nowhere near the level of the NFL.....heck, those 3rd team NFLers would slay any SEC team.....and 1st team NFLers would slay any 2nd-3rd team NFLers....soooooo.....
You aint playing with or against real NFL talent until you play 1st team NFL talent using 1st team NFL talent.....across the board.....
cmon guys...the sec is nowhere near the level of the NFL.....heck, those 3rd team NFLers would slay any SEC team.....and 1st team NFLers would slay any 2nd-3rd team NFLers....soooooo.....
You aint playing with or against real NFL talent until you play 1st team NFL talent using 1st team NFL talent.....across the board.....
Agree... Maybe it was Gruden that said, "NFL 2nd teams slow down just enough to make QBs comfortable." ... or something to that effect. But might have been a different Pre-season game that I checked out recently.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Manziel aggravated his throwing arm again today. Watched him hit Lenz on a deep pass and he walked off the field with his head down.
Steve Doerschuk said he'll sit Monday and Tuesday to rest, practice Weds/Thurs and play Sat.
Only having two healthy arms at this point in camp is a concern. Pryor needs every rep he can get with the wrs, so he is not an option, I wonder if we bring in another arm just for practice.
Z
Zombo said:
Only having two healthy arms at this point in camp is a concern. Pryor needs every rep he can get with the wrs, so he is not an option, I wonder if we bring in another arm just for practice.
Z
Read someone who said they plan on using QB coach Kevin O'Connell during practice as a "camp arm" while Manziel rests. Lol? ....
-
curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
-
curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
He's a placeholder QB, much like Hoyer. I really enjoy his approach, and his game isn't that bad as long as his pocket doesn't collapse quickly. That shouldn't be even nearly as big a problem as it has been in the past for him -- Tampa and Chicago both had really poor pass-blocking lines when he played in both places. I don't think anyone has any delusions that McCown is going to become an All Pro, well other than Dwayne Bowe.
The veteran receiver, in his first season with the team, dropped an A-bomb of positivity on Friday, starting with signal-caller Josh McCown. "He's showing all the potential of being a top-five quarterback in the NFL," Bowe said of the 36-year-old passer, per The Plain Dealer
-
Josh McCown is nothing more than Jake Delhomme or Trent Dilfer. He's a washed up journeyman.
Manziel needs to sit and learn the NFL for one more year.
By the way, it would be nice to see him get some reps with the first team in a meaningless game.
Josh McCown is an absolute fuckin bore
Josh McCown is nothing more than Jake Delhomme or Trent Dilfer. He's a washed up journeyman.
Manziel needs to sit and learn the NFL for one more year.
By the way, it would be nice to see him get some reps with the first team in a meaningless game.
Josh McCown is an absolute fuckin bore
curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
If you toss out his one aberration year in Chicago- McCown is a low 70s qbr quarterback. I'm not expecting him to recapture the magic.
-
Josh McCown is nothing more than Jake Delhomme or Trent Dilfer. He's a washed up journeyman.
Manziel needs to sit and learn the NFL for one more year.
By the way, it would be nice to see him get some reps with the first team in a meaningless game.
Josh McCown is an absolute fuckin bore
curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
If you toss out his one aberration year in Chicago- McCown is a low 70s qbr quarterback. I'm not expecting him to recapture the magic.
-
curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
curious my ass. you would look great in a Josh jersey as we all know you have been bashing Josh all over this thread many times. None of us know what good protection may mean to Josh but this I do know. Josh was brought in to be a mentor to a messed up rookie QB that Hoyer wanted no part of and at his career I don't blame him. JM was in rehab getting his life back first. What you see now on JM on the football field is not taught in rehab. Now you tell us what Josh McCLOWN in your words is doing here?
Get over yourself on Josh when he was brought in, Hoyer was a FA (done here $) and our possible starting QB was in rehab. That's a pretty good story where we are at right now with both QB's..
-
cmon guys...the sec is nowhere near the level of the NFL.....heck, those 3rd team NFLers would slay any SEC team.....and 1st team NFLers would slay any 2nd-3rd team NFLers....soooooo.....
You aint playing with or against real NFL talent until you play 1st team NFL talent using 1st team NFL talent.....across the board.....
Agree... Maybe it was Gruden that said, "NFL 2nd teams slow down just enough to make QBs comfortable." ... or something to that effect. But might have been a different Pre-season game that I checked out recently.
Agree... Maybe it was Gruden that said, "NFL 2nd teams slow down just enough to make QBs comfortable."
Garner, Parmalee, Mayle, Jennings, Wynn, and Olsen aren't second string though. Gruden actually made it a point to say Buffalo was blitzing Manziel on almost every play at 1 point. It's often said NFL offenses are behind the defenses in training camp and early on in preseason. Now let's factor in how much easier it is to play fast when the only thing you have to think about is sic em.
Furthermore, many of the offensive guys trying to make this roster from the 3rd and 4th strings include many undrafted rookies. They not only had to know our playbook but they also had to recognize the defense and adjust appropriately whether it's a RB like Parmalee picking up a blitz to protect his QB or knowing how to get open to be useful. WRs also have to know how to adjust their routes accordingly and be on the same page with their 22 year old QB. In spite of how much room for error we had - there was actually evidence of 3rd and 4th string WRs being on the same page with Manziel. Jennings and Wynn made some plays while Mayle exhibited a little stage fright.
To me, this looked better than it did last year with Manziel in there. Connor Shaw was more studious last preseason so he seemed to be where Manziel is this year - pleasantly surprising people.
-
Josh McCown is nothing more than Jake Delhomme or Trent Dilfer. He's a washed up journeyman.
Manziel needs to sit and learn the NFL for one more year.
By the way, it would be nice to see him get some reps with the first team in a meaningless game.
Josh McCown is an absolute fuckin bore
curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
If you toss out his one aberration year in Chicago- McCown is a low 70s qbr quarterback. I'm not expecting him to recapture the magic.
If you toss out his one aberration year in Chicago- McCown is a low 70s qbr quarterback. I'm not expecting him to recapture the magic.
Larry, you're saying the Josh McCown who earned a 107 passer rating was an aberration when you know Cutler struggled with the exact same teammates? Or, is it possible he finally enjoyed having an offensive line that could protect him on 3rd and short (caused by a good running game) vrs one that could not protect him in Tampa on 3rd and long (caused by the 31st ranked running game)? Mike Pettine addressed this massive difference of environments saying he feels our setup is more like the one he had in Chicago.
That's like telling Houston they need to count on this version of Brian Hoyer rather than the one that came from Cleveland:
2012 Arizona 2 GP 30 CMP 53 ATT 56.6 CMP% 330 YDS 6.23 AVG 1 TD 53 LNG 2 INT 1 FUM 30.5 QBR 65.8 RAT
2 completely different setups getting 2 different outcomes.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Let's not take it all too far out of context. If you're gonna stand firmly behind Johnny's performance was against backups and scrubs - you need to acknowledge who he was throwing to, handing off to and being protected by up-front. As I said at the bottom of the previous page of this thread - the progress looks encouraging while there's always room for young QBs to improve in this league. Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
There were some worthwhile things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
I certainly want to see Manziel succeed and am happy that he is committing himself but like I said: we know he is good against college level players, and at tamu he played WITH lot of college level players. He had Mike Evans but most of the guys who played offense with Manziel are nowhere near an NFL roster. Mccown was being pressured by guys like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus, Johnny was being pressured by guys that will be working as bouncers in the flats this September.
Not saying John Manziel can't be a franchise guy, I'm saying he needs to show it to me while playing real football games against real NFL players.
I certainly want to see Manziel succeed and am happy that he is committing himself but like I said: we know he is good against college level players, and at tamu he played WITH lot of college level players. He had Mike Evans but most of the guys who played offense with Manziel are nowhere near an NFL roster. Mccown was being pressured by guys like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus, Johnny was being pressured by guys that will be working as bouncers in the flats this September.
Not saying John Manziel can't be a franchise guy, I'm saying he needs to show it to me while playing real football games against real NFL players.
Not that I don't like the general spirit of your post, the 2012 team had 4 OL that got drafted and the 5th started several games at Center for Seattle right now (showing enough to make them comfortable enough to trade the Pro Bowler ahead of him). There was a 3rd rounder (in the 2013 draft not a later one) at RB who wasn't even the starter. Swope and Evans.
Aren't NFL 2nd and 3rd teams full of rookies that weren't good enough to get drafted? As opposed to LSU and Alabama where the entire defense gets drafted? I'm not trying to talk smack or be provocative here, those are just facts.
I don't even really know what yall are arguing about, just clarifying some of the premises.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login