The official Terry Pluto thread
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And the foul smell like keep detecting is a forced marriage coming to theaters near you between the general manager and some coach he doesn't want.
And frankly, even admitting how little I know about football and what goes on in a professional locker room headquarters, I get the feeling Jimmy Haslam and his wife are morons. Just a hunch. So was Randy Lerner but he didn't give enough of a shit to meddle in football stuff.
WSS
Haslam was a minority shareholder of the Steelers before becoming owner of the Browns. I wrongly expected better of him because of that background and he has been a big disappointment. Under his ownership we have been a team continually building a foundation and then before we actually build anything we tear down the foundation again.
Haslam was a minority shareholder of the Steelers before becoming owner of the Browns. I wrongly expected better of him because of that background and he has been a big disappointment. Under his ownership we have been a team continually building a foundation and then before we actually build anything we tear down the foundation again.
IMO the Haslams are the problem here. They ARE the foundation, the one consistent for the last several years, and they are a panicky couple who wilts when hardship ensues, and hardship inevitably ensues when you change coaches and GMs at the pace they’ve been going at.
They won’t stick to a plan. Good plan? Bad plan? We never get the chance to find out.
Going into the Sashi Brown era, they KNEW it was going to be a few years of painful and awful sucking. It’s detailed in Pluto’s book. There were “are you SURE you wanna do this?” conversations. “Yeah yeah, we’re committed...” was the response.
And it was as bad as we’ve seen it. Damn those were some awful years. And on the cusp of a turnaround, they hit the nuke button, so our current team is one guy’s fruits of another guy’s labors, and we don’t really get the chance to see what one guy’s vision looks like.
It’s a clusterfuck of sorts, and it’s been that way since we came back to the league.
I’m married to this team, no matter the form it takes. I truly bleed Brown and l have zero shame in that. It’s not decision makers l lay my alliance to but a culture and a city that l want so badly to know success.
This team badly needs a plan, a good plan, and the balls to stick to it.
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Terry Pluto today 5 am. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/cleveland-browns-owe-their-fans-a-thoughtful-christmas-present.html
Cleveland Browns GM John Dorsey (L) and owner Jimmy Haslam have to make some significant changes for next season. Photo by John Kuntz / cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio – Near the end of last Sunday’s Browns game, I looked at the mostly empty FirstEnergy Stadium.
I didn’t fault the fans for leaving early during the Browns 31-15 loss to Baltimore. It was the final home game of the season. It dropped their record to 6-9.
Making it worse, many in the stands were feeling deflated for good reason.
The team let them down. The entire organization let them down....... CONTINUED IN THE LINK.......
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Funny how everyone hyped us into some kind of contender with one exception. Guys on "Moving the Chains" NFL Radio way back before the season began were saying to lay off the gas pedal. They agreed it was very rare for any team to make the giant leap from loser to contender in one season. If you look at what we went in with this OL, an untried defense and an inexperienced HC, then realistically they were right. 6-10 or 7-9 was more the in between step. Fix it for next year and move on.
The only thing that didn't jive with their prognostication was that in 2018 they were 7-8-1 with a rookie quarterback. 9, 10, 11+ wins was a very logical and attainable goal.
They just blew it !
The only thing that didn't jive with their prognostication was that in 2018 they were 7-8-1 with a rookie quarterback. 9, 10, 11+ wins was a very logical and attainable goal.
They just blew it !
But it really wasn't a logical and attainable goal. We had one of the hardest schedules in the league, if not the toughest, with a rookie head coach and a bunch of new players in key positions. And against the top teams there's not time to gel and no margin for coaching mistakes. If we have Buffalo's schedule we're a playoff team.
We played:
Titans: 8-7
Jets: 6-9
Rams: 8-7
Ravens x2: 13-2
49ers: 12-3
Seahawks: 11-4
Patriots: 12-3
Broncos: 6-9
Bills: 10-5
Steelers x2: 8-7
Dolphins: 4-11
Bengals x2: 1-14
Cardinals: 5-9-1
I don't see 9+ wins there for a rookie coach with a new core. We only played 6 games against teams with a losing record and we played 9 games against teams that are in the playoffs or have a good chance with one game left.
Now look at the Bills schedule:
Jets x2: 6-9
Giants: 4-11
Bengals: 1-14
Patriots x2: 12-3
Titans: 8-7
Dolphins x2: 4-11
Eagles: 8-7
Washington: 3-12
Browns: 6-9
Broncos: 6-9
Cowboys: 7-8
Ravens: 13-2
Steelers: 8-7
They played 10 games against teams with a losing record, including 4 out of the 5 worst teams in the league. They played against 7 teams with a chance at the playoffs, but the Cowboys don't have a winning record and the Eagles only do because they're in the NFC east. I see 9+ wins for the Browns against these teams.
The Browns left wins on the table, for sure, but their schedule did them no favours. They played 6 games against teams with double digit wins and beat two of them, including giving the Ravens their only beatdown of the season. People expected too much too quick. With another offseason together OBJ and Baker will get in sync and we'll get Myles back. These things take time. They're a far cry from winning one game in two seasons two years ago
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The only thing that didn't jive with their prognostication was that in 2018 they were 7-8-1 with a rookie quarterback. 9, 10, 11+ wins was a very logical and attainable goal.
They just blew it !
But it really wasn't a logical and attainable goal. We had one of the hardest schedules in the league, if not the toughest, with a rookie head coach and a bunch of new players in key positions. And against the top teams there's not time to gel and no margin for coaching mistakes. If we have Buffalo's schedule we're a playoff team.
We played:
Titans: 8-7
Jets: 6-9
Rams: 8-7
Ravens x2: 13-2
49ers: 12-3
Seahawks: 11-4
Patriots: 12-3
Broncos: 6-9
Bills: 10-5
Steelers x2: 8-7
Dolphins: 4-11
Bengals x2: 1-14
Cardinals: 5-9-1
I don't see 9+ wins there for a rookie coach with a new core. We only played 6 games against teams with a losing record and we played 9 games against teams that are in the playoffs or have a good chance with one game left.
Now look at the Bills schedule:
Jets x2: 6-9
Giants: 4-11
Bengals: 1-14
Patriots x2: 12-3
Titans: 8-7
Dolphins x2: 4-11
Eagles: 8-7
Washington: 3-12
Browns: 6-9
Broncos: 6-9
Cowboys: 7-8
Ravens: 13-2
Steelers: 8-7
They played 10 games against teams with a losing record, including 4 out of the 5 worst teams in the league. They played against 7 teams with a chance at the playoffs, but the Cowboys don't have a winning record and the Eagles only do because they're in the NFC east. I see 9+ wins for the Browns against these teams.
The Browns left wins on the table, for sure, but their schedule did them no favours. They played 6 games against teams with double digit wins and beat two of them, including giving the Ravens their only beatdown of the season. People expected too much too quick. With another offseason together OBJ and Baker will get in sync and we'll get Myles back. These things take time. They're a far cry from winning one game in two seasons two years ago
......They played 10 games against teams with a losing record, including 4 out of the 5 worst teams in the league. They played against 7 teams with a chance at the playoffs, but the Cowboys don't have a winning record and the Eagles only do because they're in the NFC east. I see 9+ wins for the Browns against these teams.
The Browns left wins on the table, for sure, but their schedule did them no favours. They played 6 games against teams with double digit wins and beat two of them, including giving the Ravens their only beatdown of the season. People expected too much too quick. With another offseason together OBJ and Baker will get in sync and we'll get Myles back. These things take time. They're a far cry from winning one game in two seasons two years ago
Agreed that the BROWNS played a tough schedule largely due to:
1. Baltimore had the best record in the AFC and they played them x2.
2. They gave several games away which boosts the other teams records -and- they coulda, shoulda, woulda had 7, 8 maybe 9 wins right now and we would be debating playoff seeding and not how the BROWNS took a dump on their own 2019 season.
3. "Dumb-dumb" Garrett an honorary mention for helping screw up the season, from all pro to "NFL screw up of the decade". Who knows how many games they might have won with him. 7-9 or 6-10 is cast in concrete now. Can't even beat a 7-8-1 team with a rookie quarterback and fewer top guns. Pitiful.
Maybe they get this award?
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Oh the winning record vs losing record thing, can be misleading.
We played, actually THEY played not we, it was the BROWNS players and coaches who are 6-9. If they could have flipped these 3 games
Titans: 8-7....7-8,. Rams....8-7....7-8 and of course Steelers x2: 8-7....7-8.
Instead of 3 winning teams you coulda, shoulda, woulda had 3 losing seasons. And all were possible except maybe TEN because the BROWNS were so woefully unprepared.
Plus look at SEA, DEN, AZ all were winnable games. Start spinning those games, fun with numbers !
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And the po' BROWNS just how many games counting the next one were they the favorites? Would you believe 10 that's right ,. They were 10-5-1 as favorites.... before the game.
See for yourself. https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/teams/team-page.cfm/team/browns
2019 TEAM SCHEDULE & RESULTS Date Opponent Closing Line Total Result ATS Sep 8 Tennessee Titans -5.5 45.5 Lost 13 - 43 Loss / Over Sep 16 @ New York Jets -6.5 45 Won 23 - 3 Win / Under Sep 22 Los Angeles Rams 4.5 48.5 Lost 13 - 20 Loss / Under Sep 29 @ Baltimore Ravens 7 47.5 Won 40 - 25 Win / Over Oct 7 @ San Francisco 49ers 5 48 Lost 3 - 31 Loss / Under Oct 13 Seattle Seahawks PK 45.5 Lost 28 - 32 Loss / Over Oct 27 @ New England Patriots 10 43 Lost 13 - 27 Loss / Under Nov 3 @ Denver Broncos -4 39 Lost 19 - 24 Loss / Over Nov 10 Buffalo Bills -3 42 Won 19 - 16 Push / Under Nov 14 Pittsburgh Steelers -3 41.5 Won 21 - 7 Win / Under Nov 24 Miami Dolphins -10.5 46 Won 41 - 24 Win / Over Dec 1 @ Pittsburgh Steelers -1 40 Lost 13 - 20 Loss / Under Dec 8 Cincinnati Bengals -6.5 43.5 Won 27 - 19 Win / Over Dec 15 @ Arizona Cardinals -3 49 Lost 24 - 38 Loss / Over Dec 22 Baltimore Ravens 10 49 Lost 15 - 31 Loss / Under Dec 29 @ Cincinnati Bengals 1:00 PM -
And the po' BROWNS just how many games counting the next one were they the favorites? Would you believe 10 that's right ,. They were 10-5-1 as favorites.... before the game.
See for yourself. https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/teams/team-page.cfm/team/browns
2019 TEAM SCHEDULE & RESULTS Date Opponent Closing Line Total Result ATS Sep 8 Tennessee Titans -5.5 45.5 Lost 13 - 43 Loss / Over Sep 16 @ New York Jets -6.5 45 Won 23 - 3 Win / Under Sep 22 Los Angeles Rams 4.5 48.5 Lost 13 - 20 Loss / Under Sep 29 @ Baltimore Ravens 7 47.5 Won 40 - 25 Win / Over Oct 7 @ San Francisco 49ers 5 48 Lost 3 - 31 Loss / Under Oct 13 Seattle Seahawks PK 45.5 Lost 28 - 32 Loss / Over Oct 27 @ New England Patriots 10 43 Lost 13 - 27 Loss / Under Nov 3 @ Denver Broncos -4 39 Lost 19 - 24 Loss / Over Nov 10 Buffalo Bills -3 42 Won 19 - 16 Push / Under Nov 14 Pittsburgh Steelers -3 41.5 Won 21 - 7 Win / Under Nov 24 Miami Dolphins -10.5 46 Won 41 - 24 Win / Over Dec 1 @ Pittsburgh Steelers -1 40 Lost 13 - 20 Loss / Under Dec 8 Cincinnati Bengals -6.5 43.5 Won 27 - 19 Win / Over Dec 15 @ Arizona Cardinals -3 49 Lost 24 - 38 Loss / Over Dec 22 Baltimore Ravens 10 49 Lost 15 - 31 Loss / Under Dec 29 @ Cincinnati Bengals 1:00 PM And the po' BROWNS just how many games counting the next one were they the favorites? Would you believe 10 that's right ,. They were 10-5-1 as favorites.... before the game.
See for yourself. https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/teams/team-page.cfm/team/browns
2019 TEAM SCHEDULE & RESULTS Date Opponent Closing Line Total Result ATS Sep 8 Tennessee Titans -5.5 45.5 Lost 13 - 43 Loss / Over Sep 16 @ New York Jets -6.5 45 Won 23 - 3 Win / Under Sep 22 Los Angeles Rams 4.5 48.5 Lost 13 - 20 Loss / Under Sep 29 @ Baltimore Ravens 7 47.5 Won 40 - 25 Win / Over Oct 7 @ San Francisco 49ers 5 48 Lost 3 - 31 Loss / Under Oct 13 Seattle Seahawks PK 45.5 Lost 28 - 32 Loss / Over Oct 27 @ New England Patriots 10 43 Lost 13 - 27 Loss / Under Nov 3 @ Denver Broncos -4 39 Lost 19 - 24 Loss / Over Nov 10 Buffalo Bills -3 42 Won 19 - 16 Push / Under Nov 14 Pittsburgh Steelers -3 41.5 Won 21 - 7 Win / Under Nov 24 Miami Dolphins -10.5 46 Won 41 - 24 Win / Over Dec 1 @ Pittsburgh Steelers -1 40 Lost 13 - 20 Loss / Under Dec 8 Cincinnati Bengals -6.5 43.5 Won 27 - 19 Win / Over Dec 15 @ Arizona Cardinals -3 49 Lost 24 - 38 Loss / Over Dec 22 Baltimore Ravens 10 49 Lost 15 - 31 Loss / Under Dec 29 @ Cincinnati Bengals 1:00 PM Betting favorites reflect public perception, not how good the teams actually are. Bookies are trying to make money and they don't do that by giving them the real odds
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And the po' BROWNS just how many games counting the next one were they the favorites? Would you believe 10 that's right ,. They were 10-5-1 as favorites.... before the game.
See for yourself. https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/teams/team-page.cfm/team/browns
2019 TEAM SCHEDULE & RESULTS Date Opponent Closing Line Total Result ATS Sep 8 Tennessee Titans -5.5 45.5 Lost 13 - 43 Loss / Over Sep 16 @ New York Jets -6.5 45 Won 23 - 3 Win / Under Sep 22 Los Angeles Rams 4.5 48.5 Lost 13 - 20 Loss / Under Sep 29 @ Baltimore Ravens 7 47.5 Won 40 - 25 Win / Over Oct 7 @ San Francisco 49ers 5 48 Lost 3 - 31 Loss / Under Oct 13 Seattle Seahawks PK 45.5 Lost 28 - 32 Loss / Over Oct 27 @ New England Patriots 10 43 Lost 13 - 27 Loss / Under Nov 3 @ Denver Broncos -4 39 Lost 19 - 24 Loss / Over Nov 10 Buffalo Bills -3 42 Won 19 - 16 Push / Under Nov 14 Pittsburgh Steelers -3 41.5 Won 21 - 7 Win / Under Nov 24 Miami Dolphins -10.5 46 Won 41 - 24 Win / Over Dec 1 @ Pittsburgh Steelers -1 40 Lost 13 - 20 Loss / Under Dec 8 Cincinnati Bengals -6.5 43.5 Won 27 - 19 Win / Over Dec 15 @ Arizona Cardinals -3 49 Lost 24 - 38 Loss / Over Dec 22 Baltimore Ravens 10 49 Lost 15 - 31 Loss / Under Dec 29 @ Cincinnati Bengals 1:00 PM Betting favorites reflect public perception, not how good the teams actually are. Bookies are trying to make money and they don't do that by giving them the real odds
Betting favorites reflect public perception, not how good the teams actually are. Bookies are trying to make money and they don't do that by giving them the real odd
But they still are the favorites not underdogs by a 2:1 margin.
I do know how it works, I've been doing this for just over 50 years now.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Hey Terry: Will Cleveland Browns preseason hype cause knee-jerk decisions in off season?
Today 5:31 AM
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Betting favorites reflect public perception, not how good the teams actually are. Bookies are trying to make money and they don't do that by giving them the real odd
But they still are the favorites not underdogs by a 2:1 margin.
I do know how it works, I've been doing this for just over 50 years now.
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Funny how everyone hyped us into some kind of contender with one exception. Guys on "Moving the Chains" NFL Radio way back before the season began were saying to lay off the gas pedal. They agreed it was very rare for any team to make the giant leap from loser to contender in one season. If you look at what we went in with this OL, an untried defense and an inexperienced HC, then realistically they were right. 6-10 or 7-9 was more the in between step. Fix it for next year and move on.
Funny how everyone hyped us into some kind of contender with one exception. Guys on "Moving the Chains" NFL Radio way back before the season began were saying to lay off the gas pedal. They agreed it was very rare for any team to make the giant leap from loser to contender in one season. If you look at what we went in with this OL, an untried defense and an inexperienced HC, then realistically they were right. 6-10 or 7-9 was more the in between step. Fix it for next year and move on.
thats a regression....you are wrong about that....they went 7-8-1 and this yr we had better talent....your fucking gm screwed the pooch by making slobass kitchens the hc....they should have been at least 9-7....that my friend would have been realistic for this yr...not what you say...
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......"If I had to bet, it would be on the team making a coaching change within a few days after Sunday’s season finale in Cincinnati.
My sense is the Browns know the promotion of Kitchens from offensive coordinator to head coach was a mistake"......
If you put that up to a popular vote Freddie would probably be gone. But it's not up to a popular vote. Decision time, soon.
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Just after the game..... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/season-finally-over-change-must-be-coming-for-cleveland-browns.html
WHAT’S NEXT?
Now, it’s the season of rumors. Who will be fired?
Coach Freddie Kitchens? Coordinators? The front office?......
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Just after the game..... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/season-finally-over-change-must-be-coming-for-cleveland-browns.html
WHAT’S NEXT?
Now, it’s the season of rumors. Who will be fired?
Coach Freddie Kitchens? Coordinators? The front office?......
Just after the game..... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/season-finally-over-change-must-be-coming-for-cleveland-browns.html
WHAT’S NEXT?
Now, it’s the season of rumors. Who will be fired?
Coach Freddie Kitchens? Coordinators? The front office?......
seriously? Where have you been the last hour?
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Funny how everyone hyped us into some kind of contender with one exception. Guys on "Moving the Chains" NFL Radio way back before the season began were saying to lay off the gas pedal. They agreed it was very rare for any team to make the giant leap from loser to contender in one season. If you look at what we went in with this OL, an untried defense and an inexperienced HC, then realistically they were right. 6-10 or 7-9 was more the in between step. Fix it for next year and move on.
thats a regression....you are wrong about that....they went 7-8-1 and this yr we had better talent....your fucking gm screwed the pooch by making slobass kitchens the hc....they should have been at least 9-7....that my friend would have been realistic for this yr...not what you say...
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Cleveland Browns postgame scribbles: A plan to get Browns out of this mess
Today 5:33 AM. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/cleveland-browns-postgame-scribbles-a-plan-to-get-browns-out-of-this-mess.html
14. The front doesn’t like to hear this, but 2018 interim coach Gregg Williams brought in a sense of order and discipline that helped last season – and was missing in 2019. Bottom line: Bring in an experienced coach. Add blockers on offense, guys who can stop the run and pressure the passer on defense. The team has some flashy talent, now it needs basic football players.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
11. My plan would be to keep Dorsey with the caveat that he refrain from drafting guys who flunk drug tests at the NFL Combine (Antonio Callaway) along with other obvious character risks. The Browns need to get back to bringing in guys to play basic football, the blocking and tackling that were so lacking this season.
An NFL scout said that a when a player flunks a drug test at the Combine it isn't a red flag---it's an air raid siren. The players are told in January to stop smoking weed and whatever else is in their arsenal. They are told that they will be extensively drug tested at the Combine. Anyone who flunks a drug test at the Combine is a fucking idiot. Actually, under the CBA, any player that flunks a drug test in today's NFL is a moron.
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Cleveland Browns postgame scribbles: A plan to get Browns out of this mess
Today 5:33 AM. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/cleveland-browns-postgame-scribbles-a-plan-to-get-browns-out-of-this-mess.html
14. The front doesn’t like to hear this, but 2018 interim coach Gregg Williams brought in a sense of order and discipline that helped last season – and was missing in 2019. Bottom line: Bring in an experienced coach. Add blockers on offense, guys who can stop the run and pressure the passer on defense. The team has some flashy talent, now it needs basic football players.
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Today 5:01 AM
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Firing coach Freddie Kitchens was the easy part for the Browns.
......No need to detail the problems of the rookie head coach. Fans know all about it after watching their team lose 4 of 5 games to finish 6-10.
The big question is this: What’s next?
That’s right. . . WHAT is next? Not just WHO is next......
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