2019 Mock Drafts
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Has a sustained QB competition ever worked?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Kyler Murray in the 1st LOLOLOLOL. That's good stuff.
I've wanted Kyler Murray as our 1st round pick for a few months now if they're certain he chooses football. Having Mayfield and Murray competing with each other could produce amazing results while providing depth at the most important position. They'll be able to trade/flip one of them in a couple seasons after they find their guy.
Cheesy, but I was looking for a pic of the two together for a min and this is all I got
I've wanted Kyler Murray as our 1st round pick for a few months now if they're certain he chooses football. Having Mayfield and Murray competing with each other could produce amazing results while providing depth at the most important position. They'll be able to trade/flip one of them in a couple seasons after they find their guy.
Cheesy, but I was looking for a pic of the two together for a min and this is all I got
Sadly that still isn't the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums.
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I've wanted Kyler Murray as our 1st round pick for a few months now if they're certain he chooses football. Having Mayfield and Murray competing with each other could produce amazing results while providing depth at the most important position. They'll be able to trade/flip one of them in a couple seasons after they find their guy.
Cheesy, but I was looking for a pic of the two together for a min and this is all I got
Sadly that still isn't the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums.
Sadly that still isn't the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums.
How is trying to shore up the most important position with the best talent "dumb"? lets hear your really really smart argument.
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How is trying to shore up the most important position with the best talent "dumb"? lets hear your really really smart argument.
First and foremost - QB, unlike any other position on the field, isn't one you 'shore up' with that kind of redundancy. Especially by taking another QB first round and said QB has an incredibly questionable NFL skill set.
Now, can you take a mid to late round QB who you see as someone that can be groomed into a good backup QB? Maybe. But you don't help your young QB's development by drafting the position again simply for the sake of "competition". Baker is a fiery and competitve guy as is. So you aren't pushing him more than he pushes himself already. Also, if the guy you drafted can't win the position your return on investment sure as shit won't be a 1st rounder. Best to draft elsewhere and improve the supporting cast.
There is nobody worth their football salt, possessing any decent insight into the game that will agree with you here. This board or other wise.
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myself, I really was not that impressed with the Senior Bowl QB's. I was really impressed with Brett Rypien (3/4 rd.) at the Shrine bowl that could work well with Baker imo..Buffalos Tyree Jackson (5/6 rd)..Am not sure with the 1's if he's a tall touchless Cardale Jones? or a wild Paxton Lynch? I really see Rypien's stock rising at combine. A real natural look coming out from under center..As for Mocks, they get messy when teams reach for top QB's..Oh! it will happen
, but not us this time..
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
How is trying to shore up the most important position with the best talent "dumb"? lets hear your really really smart argument.
First and foremost - QB, unlike any other position on the field, isn't one you 'shore up' with that kind of redundancy. Especially by taking another QB first round and said QB has an incredibly questionable NFL skill set.
Now, can you take a mid to late round QB who you see as someone that can be groomed into a good backup QB? Maybe. But you don't help your young QB's development by drafting the position again simply for the sake of "competition". Baker is a fiery and competitve guy as is. So you aren't pushing him more than he pushes himself already. Also, if the guy you drafted can't win the position your return on investment sure as shit won't be a 1st rounder. Best to draft elsewhere and improve the supporting cast.
There is nobody worth their football salt, possessing any decent insight into the game that will agree with you here. This board or other wise.
First and foremost - QB, unlike any other position on the field, isn't one you 'shore up' with that kind of redundancy. Especially by taking another QB first round and said QB has an incredibly questionable NFL skill set.
Now, can you take a mid to late round QB who you see as someone that can be groomed into a good backup QB? Maybe. But you don't help your young QB's development by drafting the position again simply for the sake of "competition". Baker is a fiery and competitve guy as is. So you aren't pushing him more than he pushes himself already. Also, if the guy you drafted can't win the position your return on investment sure as shit won't be a 1st rounder. Best to draft elsewhere and improve the supporting cast.
There is nobody worth their football salt, possessing any decent insight into the game that will agree with you here. This board or other wise.
It's not just for competition and depth, it''s making it a much higher probability that they've finally got an elite franchise QB they've never had.
His skill set is comparable to Patrick Mahomes minus the height, but faster. If Patrick Mahomes was entering the draft this April, would you consider him at pick #17 if he was available based of his college production? Just wanna know if it's truly that you don't want another QB, or if it's just the player you don't like in Murray.
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First and foremost - QB, unlike any other position on the field, isn't one you 'shore up' with that kind of redundancy. Especially by taking another QB first round and said QB has an incredibly questionable NFL skill set.
Now, can you take a mid to late round QB who you see as someone that can be groomed into a good backup QB? Maybe. But you don't help your young QB's development by drafting the position again simply for the sake of "competition". Baker is a fiery and competitve guy as is. So you aren't pushing him more than he pushes himself already. Also, if the guy you drafted can't win the position your return on investment sure as shit won't be a 1st rounder. Best to draft elsewhere and improve the supporting cast.
There is nobody worth their football salt, possessing any decent insight into the game that will agree with you here. This board or other wise.
It's not just for competition and depth, it''s making it a much higher probability that they've finally got an elite franchise QB they've never had.
His skill set is comparable to Patrick Mahomes minus the height, but faster. If Patrick Mahomes was entering the draft this April, would you consider him at pick #17 if he was available based of his college production? Just wanna know if it's truly that you don't want another QB, or if it's just the player you don't like in Murray.
It's not just for competition and depth, it''s making it a much higher probability that they've finally got an elite franchise QB they've never had.
His skill set is comparable to Patrick Mahomes minus the height, but faster. If Patrick Mahomes was entering the draft this April, would you consider him at pick #17 if he was available based of his college production? Just wanna know if it's truly that you don't want another QB, or if it's just the player you don't like in Murray.
He is literally nothing like Mahomes. Murray runs to run, Patrick runs to throw. On top of the fact Mahomes has the stature to survey the field in a way Kyler can only dream and the accuracy + arm to put the ball wherever he likes.
His speed accounts for little because he isn't fast enough to outrun most defenses and when he doesn't he takes some considerable punishment - which is where his size comes into play.
To answer your last question - it's both. Drafting Murray is, in word, dumb. I also don't see an NFL skill set in Murray and should he go in the 1st round I pray it's to an AFC team. Weaker competition means better playoff path for the Browns. The kid struggled with some pretty vanilla looks Bama gave him in the early going. Think it won't be twice as bad in the NFL?
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It's not just for competition and depth, it''s making it a much higher probability that they've finally got an elite franchise QB they've never had.
His skill set is comparable to Patrick Mahomes minus the height, but faster. If Patrick Mahomes was entering the draft this April, would you consider him at pick #17 if he was available based of his college production? Just wanna know if it's truly that you don't want another QB, or if it's just the player you don't like in Murray.
He is literally nothing like Mahomes. Murray runs to run, Patrick runs to throw. On top of the fact Mahomes has the stature to survey the field in a way Kyler can only dream and the accuracy + arm to put the ball wherever he likes.
His speed accounts for little because he isn't fast enough to outrun most defenses and when he doesn't he takes some considerable punishment - which is where his size comes into play.
To answer your last question - it's both. Drafting Murray is, in word, dumb. I also don't see an NFL skill set in Murray and should he go in the 1st round I pray it's to an AFC team. Weaker competition means better playoff path for the Browns. The kid struggled with some pretty vanilla looks Bama gave him in the early going. Think it won't be twice as bad in the NFL?
He is literally nothing like Mahomes. Murray runs to run, Patrick runs to throw. On top of the fact Mahomes has the stature to survey the field in a way Kyler can only dream and the accuracy + arm to put the ball wherever he likes.
His speed accounts for little because he isn't fast enough to outrun most defenses and when he doesn't he takes some considerable punishment - which is where his size comes into play.
To answer your last question - it's both. Drafting Murray is, in word, dumb. I also don't see an NFL skill set in Murray and should he go in the 1st round I pray it's to an AFC team. Weaker competition means better playoff path for the Browns. The kid struggled with some pretty vanilla looks Bama gave him in the early going. Think it won't be twice as bad in the NFL?
You throw around the word dumb a lot, but you clearly haven't watched the guy or you yourself are.....dumb?
Maholmes and Murray have the same ability to be running at full speed out of pressure and throwing a dart downfield on a dime for a game changing completion. His arm strength, accuracy, elusiveness, creativity.all compare to Maholmes. He's like a Mahomes, Lamar Jackson hybrid.
The only HUGE concerns are his size (1 inch shorter than Russell Wilson) and whether or not he'll choose baseball.
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I will start with Bucky Brooks
No way do we take an OT with 3 good DT's still on the board in Lawrence, Wilkins and Simmons
I will start with Bucky Brooks
No way do we take an OT with 3 good DT's still on the board in Lawrence, Wilkins and Simmons
Dorsey likes to take his OT's high, wouldn't surprise me, Corbett wasn't going as high as we took him in many mocks last year
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Oh, Goody... The highlight game.
Maybe someone can explain to me the struggles with Murray taking a straight drop with no action and failing to see what's in front of him or simply finding his outlet receiver - as shown by play #2 and a solid amount of plays after.
... Don't answer that, because it's rhetorical.
Questions about his height lead into things like vision, then you talk about pocket movement, which Murray isn't great at without dropping his eyes. Then that rolls into a talk of missing windows because being 5'8 doesnt help - therefore the timing and anticipation of throws vs certain coverages comes into play.
If we want to call any QB that has ever made a nice throw on the run Patrick Mahomes then you're going to run into a list that is far more sizeable and far less flattering than you'll want to yield.
QB's start up top between the ears, not their legs. We had this argument last year with Lamar Jackson - an argument that @louisville-slugger won in terms of 'the battle'... But as San Diego showed us, the war looks like its be going to be a dub for my assessment.
Bottom line, anything is possible. It's *possible* I could bang Jessica Alba. But I don't work on what is possible and most football minds don't. I work on what is probable, what I have evidence of.
Evidence shows that Murray will be a long line of "exciting" Running QB's (plus Heisman winners) who might make a wow play here or there, but the consistency, accuracy and ruthless efficiency that makes a good to great NFL QB really isn't there.
But I'll make sure to bookmark this for next year.
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How is trying to shore up the most important position with the best talent "dumb"? lets hear your really really smart argument.
Its dumb because we have other holes that need to be filled in round 1 of the draft as opposed to drafting someone to be the backup to the QB that we currently have. QB, RB, TE, K, or P are the only positions that Im absolutely not drafting anyone for in round 1. Every other position we could use the help that a first round talent would bring and would/should immediately make the team better.
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Oh, Goody... The highlight game.
Maybe someone can explain to me the struggles with Murray taking a straight drop with no action and failing to see what's in front of him or simply finding his outlet receiver - as shown by play #2 and a solid amount of plays after.
... Don't answer that, because it's rhetorical.
Questions about his height lead into things like vision, then you talk about pocket movement, which Murray isn't great at without dropping his eyes. Then that rolls into a talk of missing windows because being 5'8 doesnt help - therefore the timing and anticipation of throws vs certain coverages comes into play.
If we want to call any QB that has ever made a nice throw on the run Patrick Mahomes then you're going to run into a list that is far more sizeable and far less flattering than you'll want to yield.
QB's start up top between the ears, not their legs. We had this argument last year with Lamar Jackson - an argument that @louisville-slugger won in terms of 'the battle'... But as San Diego showed us, the war looks like its be going to be a dub for my assessment.
Bottom line, anything is possible. It's *possible* I could bang Jessica Alba. But I don't work on what is possible and most football minds don't. I work on what is probable, what I have evidence of.
Evidence shows that Murray will be a long line of "exciting" Running QB's (plus Heisman winners) who might make a wow play here or there, but the consistency, accuracy and ruthless efficiency that makes a good to great NFL QB really isn't there.
But I'll make sure to bookmark this for next year.
Oh, Goody... The highlight game.
Maybe someone can explain to me the struggles with Murray taking a straight drop with no action and failing to see what's in front of him or simply finding his outlet receiver - as shown by play #2 and a solid amount of plays after.
... Don't answer that, because it's rhetorical.
Questions about his height lead into things like vision, then you talk about pocket movement, which Murray isn't great at without dropping his eyes. Then that rolls into a talk of missing windows because being 5'8 doesnt help - therefore the timing and anticipation of throws vs certain coverages comes into play.
If we want to call any QB that has ever made a nice throw on the run Patrick Mahomes then you're going to run into a list that is far more sizeable and far less flattering than you'll want to yield.
QB's start up top between the ears, not their legs. We had this argument last year with Lamar Jackson - an argument that @louisville-slugger won in terms of 'the battle'... But as San Diego showed us, the war looks like its be going to be a dub for my assessment.
Bottom line, anything is possible. It's *possible* I could bang Jessica Alba. But I don't work on what is possible and most football minds don't. I work on what is probable, what I have evidence of.
Evidence shows that Murray will be a long line of "exciting" Running QB's (plus Heisman winners) who might make a wow play here or there, but the consistency, accuracy and ruthless efficiency that makes a good to great NFL QB really isn't there.
But I'll make sure to bookmark this for next year.
You keep missing the fact that I've continually said that Jackson is a scheme specific gimmick QB. He is going to get better now that Roman has full control of the offense. When I was talking about Lamar, the browns were a lost cause that I didnt think a rookie QB could fix. Can he grow into a McNair type? Probably not but you're going to get 8 years of quality football if you keep the scheme.
So for the record my top choices were
1. Baker Mayfeild
2. Lamar Jackson in Greg Roman's offense
You had Rosen on top of your board so...
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Mayfeild???
I'd be careful about basing an argument on Rosen's part-time starter year in AZ.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Oh, Goody... The highlight game.
Maybe someone can explain to me the struggles with Murray taking a straight drop with no action and failing to see what's in front of him or simply finding his outlet receiver - as shown by play #2 and a solid amount of plays after.
... Don't answer that, because it's rhetorical.
Questions about his height lead into things like vision, then you talk about pocket movement, which Murray isn't great at without dropping his eyes. Then that rolls into a talk of missing windows because being 5'8 doesnt help - therefore the timing and anticipation of throws vs certain coverages comes into play.
If we want to call any QB that has ever made a nice throw on the run Patrick Mahomes then you're going to run into a list that is far more sizeable and far less flattering than you'll want to yield.
QB's start up top between the ears, not their legs. We had this argument last year with Lamar Jackson - an argument that @louisville-slugger won in terms of 'the battle'... But as San Diego showed us, the war looks like its be going to be a dub for my assessment.
Bottom line, anything is possible. It's *possible* I could bang Jessica Alba. But I don't work on what is possible and most football minds don't. I work on what is probable, what I have evidence of.
Evidence shows that Murray will be a long line of "exciting" Running QB's (plus Heisman winners) who might make a wow play here or there, but the consistency, accuracy and ruthless efficiency that makes a good to great NFL QB really isn't there.
But I'll make sure to bookmark this for next year.
You keep missing the fact that I've continually said that Jackson is a scheme specific gimmick QB. He is going to get better now that Roman has full control of the offense. When I was talking about Lamar, the browns were a lost cause that I didnt think a rookie QB could fix. Can he grow into a McNair type? Probably not but you're going to get 8 years of quality football if you keep the scheme.
So for the record my top choices were
1. Baker Mayfeild
2. Lamar Jackson in Greg Roman's offense
You had Rosen on top of your board so...
You keep missing the fact that I've continually said that Jackson is a scheme specific gimmick QB.
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Kyler Murray in the 1st LOLOLOLOL. That's good stuff.
I've wanted Kyler Murray as our 1st round pick for a few months now if they're certain he chooses football. Having Mayfield and Murray competing with each other could produce amazing results while providing depth at the most important position. They'll be able to trade/flip one of them in a couple seasons after they find their guy.
Cheesy, but I was looking for a pic of the two together for a min and this is all I got
I've wanted Kyler Murray as our 1st round pick for a few months now if they're certain he chooses football. Having Mayfield and Murray competing with each other could produce amazing results while providing depth at the most important position. They'll be able to trade/flip one of them in a couple seasons after they find their guy.
Cheesy, but I was looking for a pic of the two together for a min and this is all I got
We are finally in the position to take the BPA and add a damn nice piece at #17. We need help on D stopping the run. Taking Kyler Murray could possibly be the stupidest thing Dorsey could do. Baker Mayfield is our franchise QB. He doesn't need competition, he needs a supporting cast. You take a QB round 5 or 6 and develop him into a backup. Or bring back that kid we cut at the end of preseason last year.
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Has a sustained QB competition ever worked?
Sort of. MOrton and Staubach had it for a few years. Both took the Cowboys to the SB. Montana and Steve Young for a bit....also both went to SB. I think Darryl Lamonica and Ken Stabler had one for a bit....both being successful. There could be a couple of others.
I don't know if you call these sustained...but they existed for a while....and the results were good for the team under both QBs. But eventually one guy will always prevail.
Can't recall any particular team that had a true dual QB system that went for the long run.
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Has a sustained QB competition ever worked?
Sort of. MOrton and Staubach had it for a few years. Both took the Cowboys to the SB. Montana and Steve Young for a bit....also both went to SB. I think Darryl Lamonica and Ken Stabler had one for a bit....both being successful. There could be a couple of others.
I don't know if you call these sustained...but they existed for a while....and the results were good for the team under both QBs. But eventually one guy will always prevail.
Can't recall any particular team that had a true dual QB system that went for the long run.
Sort of. MOrton and Staubach had it for a few years. Both took the Cowboys to the SB. Montana and Steve Young for a bit....also both went to SB. I think Darryl Lamonica and Ken Stabler had one for a bit....both being successful. There could be a couple of others.
I don't know if you call these sustained...but they existed for a while....and the results were good for the team under both QBs. But eventually one guy will always prevail.
Can't recall any particular team that had a true dual QB system that went for the long run.
And none of those in the salary cap era.
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myself, I really was not that impressed with the Senior Bowl QB's. I was really impressed with Brett Rypien (3/4 rd.) at the Shrine bowl that could work well with Baker imo..Buffalos Tyree Jackson (5/6 rd)..Am not sure with the 1's if he's a tall touchless Cardale Jones? or a wild Paxton Lynch? I really see Rypien's stock rising at combine. A real natural look coming out from under center..As for Mocks, they get messy when teams reach for top QB's..Oh! it will happen
, but not us this time..
myself, I really was not that impressed with the Senior Bowl QB's. I was really impressed with Brett Rypien (3/4 rd.) at the Shrine bowl that could work well with Baker imo..Buffalos Tyree Jackson (5/6 rd)..Am not sure with the 1's if he's a tall touchless Cardale Jones? or a wild Paxton Lynch? I really see Rypien's stock rising at combine. A real natural look coming out from under center..As for Mocks, they get messy when teams reach for top QB's..Oh! it will happen
, but not us this time..
It doesn't hurt that Rypien has DNA on his side....his Dad being a Super Bowl winning QB.
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Sort of. MOrton and Staubach had it for a few years. Both took the Cowboys to the SB. Montana and Steve Young for a bit....also both went to SB. I think Darryl Lamonica and Ken Stabler had one for a bit....both being successful. There could be a couple of others.
I don't know if you call these sustained...but they existed for a while....and the results were good for the team under both QBs. But eventually one guy will always prevail.
Can't recall any particular team that had a true dual QB system that went for the long run.
And none of those in the salary cap era.
And none of those in the salary cap era.
If both players were young and on their initial rookie contracts....it would be fine financially. Not that I am advocating that a dual QB system is something the Browns could do. Just saying that in the right circumstance, theoretically it is plausible. And the question poised did ask "ever".
So, I guess I could have gone back to the Canton Bulldogs.
Or...better yet...this one seemed to be somewhat sustained: Norm Van Brocklin and Bob Waterfield. LA Rams.
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Mayfeild???
I'd be careful about basing an argument on Rosen's part-time starter year in AZ.
Mayfeild???
I'd be careful about basing an argument on Rosen's part-time starter year in AZ.
I had Mayfeild as the guy for the last month or so before the draft.
I don't see Rosen ever being better than an average QB.
If we take a QB at 17 I will literally never watch the nfl again
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