Flags/Penalties
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This is the last thing I'm going to say about the penalties and the Robinson "kick"-
Penalty's cost us this game. We lost solely because of the penalties. Either self inflicted or gifted by the refs, we can't have them if we want to be who we think we are. Gotta clean it up.
- And why the hell is KENNY FUCKING VACCARRO'S helmet anywhere near Greg Robinson's feet as he's falling down after the play is over. Kenny's a bitch, he deserved it.
This is the last thing I'm going to say about the penalties and the Robinson "kick"-
Penalty's cost us this game. We lost solely because of the penalties. Either self inflicted or gifted by the refs, we can't have them if we want to be who we think we are. Gotta clean it up.
- And why the hell is KENNY FUCKING VACCARRO'S helmet anywhere near Greg Robinson's feet as he's falling down after the play is over. Kenny's a bitch, he deserved it.
This is one of the most asinine things I've ever seen.
Lets go ahead and excuse his behavior so that we can excuse his behavior.
And you have shown your ability to judge someone (McCoy, Hogan, etc), I would bet that "bi*ch" would make you his
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I don't see any reason he had to kick at the guy.
cause he missed with his left & landed with his right..if we owned a back-up Tackle? would Freddie suspend him another 1 Game? I really don't care who pushed him over before or after the whistle..that's class-less browns football..am not believing the Robbie words of "it looks a lot worse than it really was".. but the NFL did ?
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This is the last thing I'm going to say about the penalties and the Robinson "kick"-
Penalty's cost us this game. We lost solely because of the penalties. Either self inflicted or gifted by the refs, we can't have them if we want to be who we think we are. Gotta clean it up.
- And why the hell is KENNY FUCKING VACCARRO'S helmet anywhere near Greg Robinson's feet as he's falling down after the play is over. Kenny's a bitch, he deserved it.
This is one of the most asinine things I've ever seen.
Lets go ahead and excuse his behavior so that we can excuse his behavior.
And you have shown your ability to judge someone (McCoy, Hogan, etc), I would bet that "bi*ch" would make you his
This is the last thing I'm going to say about the penalties and the Robinson "kick"-
Penalty's cost us this game. We lost solely because of the penalties. Either self inflicted or gifted by the refs, we can't have them if we want to be who we think we are. Gotta clean it up.
- And why the hell is KENNY FUCKING VACCARRO'S helmet anywhere near Greg Robinson's feet as he's falling down after the play is over. Kenny's a bitch, he deserved it.
This is one of the most asinine things I've ever seen.
Actually, it's not.
I agree that we probably lost because of the penalties. But it's not the fault of the refs.
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This is the last thing I'm going to say about the penalties and the Robinson "kick"-
Penalty's cost us this game. We lost solely because of the penalties. Either self inflicted or gifted by the refs, we can't have them if we want to be who we think we are. Gotta clean it up.
- And why the hell is KENNY FUCKING VACCARRO'S helmet anywhere near Greg Robinson's feet as he's falling down after the play is over. Kenny's a bitch, he deserved it.
This is one of the most asinine things I've ever seen.
Actually, it's not.
I agree that we probably lost because of the penalties. But it's not the fault of the refs.
This is the last thing I'm going to say about the penalties and the Robinson "kick"-
Penalty's cost us this game. We lost solely because of the penalties. Either self inflicted or gifted by the refs, we can't have them if we want to be who we think we are. Gotta clean it up.
- And why the hell is KENNY FUCKING VACCARRO'S helmet anywhere near Greg Robinson's feet as he's falling down after the play is over. Kenny's a bitch, he deserved it.
Actually, it's not.
I agree that we probably lost because of the penalties. But it's not the fault of the refs.
You must not have read the rest of the thread or understood the context of that comment. My whole point was that they didn't lose because of refs, certainly not to take up for Robinson
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Just cause I'm still not over how reffing has been..
They said as of last night holding is still up 70% from this time last year. I'm wearing my tin foil hat if anyone wants to join, I got a few extra.
...in all seriousness, that game last night was unwatchable. With yellow on the field seemingly every play (holding) and pouring down rain I didn't even make through the 1st quarter.
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Just cause I'm still not over how reffing has been..
They said as of last night holding is still up 70% from this time last year. I'm wearing my tin foil hat if anyone wants to join, I got a few extra.
...in all seriousness, that game last night was unwatchable. With yellow on the field seemingly every play (holding) and pouring down rain I didn't even make through the 1st quarter.
Just cause I'm still not over how reffing has been..
They said as of last night holding is still up 70% from this time last year. I'm wearing my tin foil hat if anyone wants to join, I got a few extra.
...in all seriousness, that game last night was unwatchable. With yellow on the field seemingly every play (holding) and pouring down rain I didn't even make through the 1st quarter.
I watch MLB as well as football. It’s amazing at the hair close plays that are called right in baseball. Of course having full time well paid officials helps. I guess the NFL can’t or won’t afford good officiating. Training and money works.
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Just cause I'm still not over how reffing has been..
They said as of last night holding is still up 70% from this time last year. I'm wearing my tin foil hat if anyone wants to join, I got a few extra.
...in all seriousness, that game last night was unwatchable. With yellow on the field seemingly every play (holding) and pouring down rain I didn't even make through the 1st quarter.
I watch MLB as well as football. It’s amazing at the hair close plays that are called right in baseball. Of course having full time well paid officials helps. I guess the NFL can’t or won’t afford good officiating. Training and money works.
I watch MLB as well as football. It’s amazing at the hair close plays that are called right in baseball. Of course having full time well paid officials helps. I guess the NFL can’t or won’t afford good officiating. Training and money works.
For sure, my dude. I'm not being funny or dramatic when I say it's making the game unwatchable.
the GOAT agrees with me too: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27655167/brady-turns-tnf-citing-ridiculous-penalties
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I watch MLB as well as football. It’s amazing at the hair close plays that are called right in baseball. Of course having full time well paid officials helps. I guess the NFL can’t or won’t afford good officiating. Training and money works.
For sure, my dude. I'm not being funny or dramatic when I say it's making the game unwatchable.
the GOAT agrees with me too: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27655167/brady-turns-tnf-citing-ridiculous-penalties
For sure, my dude. I'm not being funny or dramatic when I say it's making the game unwatchable.
the GOAT agrees with me too: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27655167/brady-turns-tnf-citing-ridiculous-penalties
You’re right. Makes for a very boring game. I watch the Browns but rarely sit through any other games. When reruns are better than a NFL game......writing on the wall?
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I don't mind holding or any other call...
I mind bad calls...
... and non-calls.
We saw examples of all three last nite.
Holding was made a "point of emphasis" this year. Often those points are made in the preseason and fade as the real season starts... not so much this go 'round.
I have to wonder if the turnover in the Ref ranks is a factor. What was it I heard... 5 or 6 longtime Refs retired after last season? So others are promoted from wherever and they may be seeing the play from behind the OL for the first time. Then somewhere on the field is a fresh replacement for the retiree making calls at this level for the first time...
And so it goes...
NFL grading and continuing education should reduce the calls over time.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I don't mind holding or any other call...
I mind bad calls...
... and non-calls.
We saw examples of all three last nite.
Holding was made a "point of emphasis" this year. Often those points are made in the preseason and fade as the real season starts... not so much this go 'round.
I have to wonder if the turnover in the Ref ranks is a factor. What was it I heard... 5 or 6 longtime Refs retired after last season? So others are promoted from wherever and they may be seeing the play from behind the OL for the first time. Then somewhere on the field is a fresh replacement for the retiree making calls at this level for the first time...
And so it goes...
NFL grading and continuing education should reduce the calls over time.
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And as for the plethora of body-weight roughing the passer calls...
I think NY needs to look at all sacks related penalties and either confirm or overturn them within 30 seconds.
- Buzz the ref that that they are looking and to hold play...
- Buzz once to confirm... Buzz twice to overturn...
No trotting to the sideline so the ref can see replays and otherwise listen in... quick review and "Play on."
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I don't mind holding or any other call...
I mind bad calls...
... and non-calls.
We saw examples of all three last nite.
Holding was made a "point of emphasis" this year. Often those points are made in the preseason and fade as the real season starts... not so much this go 'round.
I have to wonder if the turnover in the Ref ranks is a factor. What was it I heard... 5 or 6 longtime Refs retired after last season? So others are promoted from wherever and they may be seeing the play from behind the OL for the first time. Then somewhere on the field is a fresh replacement for the retiree making calls at this level for the first time...
And so it goes...
NFL grading and continuing education should reduce the calls over time.
I don't mind holding or any other call...
I mind bad calls...
... and non-calls.
We saw examples of all three last nite.
Holding was made a "point of emphasis" this year. Often those points are made in the preseason and fade as the real season starts... not so much this go 'round.
I have to wonder if the turnover in the Ref ranks is a factor. What was it I heard... 5 or 6 longtime Refs retired after last season? So others are promoted from wherever and they may be seeing the play from behind the OL for the first time. Then somewhere on the field is a fresh replacement for the retiree making calls at this level for the first time...
And so it goes...
NFL grading and continuing education should reduce the calls over time.
I think to this point, and what still makes me mad about week one, is that if you're going to "emphasize" that you gotta call it both ways. The Browns were extremely sloppy week one, but the 18-5 flag discrepancy was and still is unacceptable. Myles Garrett literally looked at the ref with his helmet almost off his head the ref just shrugged his shoulders. And obviously based on last night the Titans aren't some "disciplined" team.
Point is and continues to be the NFL has a serious referee issue.
-
I don't mind holding or any other call...
I mind bad calls...
... and non-calls.
We saw examples of all three last nite.
Holding was made a "point of emphasis" this year. Often those points are made in the preseason and fade as the real season starts... not so much this go 'round.
I have to wonder if the turnover in the Ref ranks is a factor. What was it I heard... 5 or 6 longtime Refs retired after last season? So others are promoted from wherever and they may be seeing the play from behind the OL for the first time. Then somewhere on the field is a fresh replacement for the retiree making calls at this level for the first time...
And so it goes...
NFL grading and continuing education should reduce the calls over time.
I think to this point, and what still makes me mad about week one, is that if you're going to "emphasize" that you gotta call it both ways. The Browns were extremely sloppy week one, but the 18-5 flag discrepancy was and still is unacceptable. Myles Garrett literally looked at the ref with his helmet almost off his head the ref just shrugged his shoulders. And obviously based on last night the Titans aren't some "disciplined" team.
Point is and continues to be the NFL has a serious referee issue.
I think to this point, and what still makes me mad about week one, is that if you're going to "emphasize" that you gotta call it both ways. The Browns were extremely sloppy week one, but the 18-5 flag discrepancy was and still is unacceptable. Myles Garrett literally looked at the ref with his helmet almost off his head the ref just shrugged his shoulders. And obviously based on last night the Titans aren't some "disciplined" team.
Point is and continues to be the NFL has a serious referee issue.
And to me that led directly to so many hits on Mariotta that I think even commentators were starting to lose count.
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I don't mind holding or any other call...
I mind bad calls...
... and non-calls.
We saw examples of all three last nite.
Holding was made a "point of emphasis" this year. Often those points are made in the preseason and fade as the real season starts... not so much this go 'round.
I have to wonder if the turnover in the Ref ranks is a factor. What was it I heard... 5 or 6 longtime Refs retired after last season? So others are promoted from wherever and they may be seeing the play from behind the OL for the first time. Then somewhere on the field is a fresh replacement for the retiree making calls at this level for the first time...
And so it goes...
NFL grading and continuing education should reduce the calls over time.
I think to this point, and what still makes me mad about week one, is that if you're going to "emphasize" that you gotta call it both ways. The Browns were extremely sloppy week one, but the 18-5 flag discrepancy was and still is unacceptable. Myles Garrett literally looked at the ref with his helmet almost off his head the ref just shrugged his shoulders. And obviously based on last night the Titans aren't some "disciplined" team.
Point is and continues to be the NFL has a serious referee issue.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And as for the plethora of body-weight roughing the passer calls...
I think NY needs to look at all sacks related penalties and either confirm or overturn them within 30 seconds.
- Buzz the ref that that they are looking and to hold play...
- Buzz once to confirm... Buzz twice to overturn...
No trotting to the sideline so the ref can see replays and otherwise listen in... quick review and "Play on."
And as for the plethora of body-weight roughing the passer calls...
I think NY needs to look at all sacks related penalties and either confirm or overturn them within 30 seconds.
- Buzz the ref that that they are looking and to hold play...
- Buzz once to confirm... Buzz twice to overturn...
No trotting to the sideline so the ref can see replays and otherwise listen in... quick review and "Play on."
Agreed. Simple & quick.
I also think that suspension decisions should be mandated to be finalized within a specified time period so teams are not delayed in roster decisions by RG's foot dragging.
Mike
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Irregulars. Poorly trained and poorly paid. No wonder they suck. The bosses must want that.
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Just watched the Henry 75 yard TD. Unless you guys had a better video than I did, there is no penalty on that play.
The Landry play on the sideline was on him.
I just found a video of all the penalties:
1. Not a blindside block
2. Is absolutely the right call for Roughing the passer
3. Double team, there is a double team, cant argue that 1
4. Unnecessary roughness on Garrett. Absolutely
5. Defensive hold. He was a little early, that one could go either way. Wasn't egregious
6. Roughing the passer on Richardson was the right call. They are protecting the QB more and more and it was not needed.
7. Offsides- yeah
8. The kick. It was absolutely a kick and he should be suspended
9. False start. I can't say I see it. Looks like maybe his hand moves
10. Offensive PI. I'm sorry but it is. He pushes off to gain separation
11. Holding. It was but not one of the worst holds I have seen. But he does hold him at the POA
12. Illegal use of hands and hold on PR. Video really didn't show it
13. False start. No way to dispute it
14. Hold on Harris. Clear hold
15. 2nd hold on Harris, probably but not nearly as bad
16. Hold on Ward. It wasn't in the video and no replay. It appears that Myles was held on the play
17. Hold on Hubbard absolutely
I/or the video must have missed one. And this doesn't take into account ones that were missed on the Titans. But since I couldn't see the game I figured I would try to find a video since people were making it out to be so bad.
2 that I didn't think were flags, a couple that were penalties but could have been no calls, and a couple couldn't see in video.
10. Offensive PI. I'm sorry but it is. He pushes off to gain separation
I appreciate you doing this. Well done! I agree with all but 1 of your points. There's no getting around it - the lack of discipline was discouraging.
The 1 disagree with was the offensive pass interference. That defensive back had his hands all over OBJ for most of the route to the extent it was altering the route enough to warrant the push-off. What do the rules say about where a DB can jam/press a WR? 1st 5 yards right? Rule was broken and the wrong guy got flagged. I saw the replay 3 times. Again, the officials blew off that rule to flag the victim of them of it all. If the crew is going to be flag happy - they need to be that way to both teams.
For example, how many times did did the OT across from Garrett get away with hands to the face? They were very consistent at not seeing that. That said, Robinson had a very similar block to that of Jake Matthews that made the highlight reels on Julio Jones' game winning TD reception. Robinson got flagged while Matthews did not. Both were outside the 3 by 5 free blocking zone which meant the blocker couldn't hit the defender from behind. And neither guy did so. Mathews was painted as a hero while the Cleveland Brown got flagged. And here's another tidbit on this game of angles for teams that like to get their linemen out on the perimeter. If a defender turns his back at the last second while on offensive lineman is attempting to engage him, it's not a clip or block in the back. In other words, the defender sees the lineman is going to block him and then turns his back at the last second - he's not being dangerously blindsided any more. The spirit of the rule was completely disregarded on the Robinson penalty which certainly invited people to question the proportion of flags in terms of were the officials looking to flag 1 team more than the other.
I don't know if anyone else saw this but before the game Vrable was showing a couple officials something that looked like it had to do with blocking techniques. Keep in mind he played for BB in a program that always emphasized what the officiating crew likes to call and what they sweep under the rug. It looked like he was telling them to keep an eye on something in the trenches. And 1 team was penalized more than the other. On the other hand, the last officiating crew that watched TN (Thursday Night) didn't seem nearly as reluctant to flag them.
IMO, the over-officiating around the league is ruining the entertainment factor. Apparently, Tom Brady tried to watch the game and the officiating crew made that a complete waste of time according to the commentators summarizing his Twitter comments. Going back to the NFC Championship in Roger Goodell's Kingdom, 1 of the TWO playoffs teams from the LA Market Roger so desperately wanted and needed - got rewarded by an officiating crew that had not 1, not 2, but 3 officials that resided in.... LA. Who knew? Roger. No matter how many NFL teams good or bad they want to put in Roger's favorite TV market - USC has always been the favorite PRO Football team out there. This whole we're going to let teams challenge pass interference calls moving is nothing but a farce to distract people from the epic disaster of the Officials determining the outcome instead of the players. And in the process, Roger is very excited to see that 90% of the pass interference penalties challenged have favored the officials judgement. That's fine but has this changed what happened in a Conference Championship Game?
That brings me to this year, how many times has an official blown a play dead that shouldn't have been? Didn't Cam Jordan return a fumble for a TD that the officiating crew was able to early whistle dead in favor of? LA. Folks, if we want a break or 2 from an officiating crew - were playing Roger Goodell's favorite TV market this Sunday so don't count on it. Markets like Cleveland tend to get the plastic apology from the league about how sorry they are for mistakes that impacted the game... We got one of those against another West Coast market last year when we looked like we returned a fumble from David Carr for a TD that would have ended a close game after they reversed a game clinching 1st down on the official's spot that is not supposed to be challenged. We also had a fumble return for a TD vrs Baltimore that got quick whistled dead. If anyone is wondering why Jimmy Haslam doesn't ever speak up - it would have to be against the hand feeding him via the shared revenue from the TV contracts (largely from the Direct TV/ATT monopoly) was driven by Roger Goodfella. So, Jimmy is going to remain church mouse quiet on it all...
With fantasy football participation growing all around us and countries like England, Canada and even Mexico showing interest in hosting games - TV markets can only expand and increase in Roger Goodell's kingdom. This definitely isn't the NFL our parents got us interested in once upon a time. All this bs about caring for the safety of players in a game promoting bigger faster, stronger with rule changes over the years promoting passing games putting people in space for more violent collisions - now Roger Goodell wants 2 more regular season games of wear and tear. There's less concussions in rugby because a lot of their contact is in scrums where collisions are initiated from guys that aren't very far apart. And get this - no head gear leads to guys not initiating contact with their helmets. Makes sense while the NFL makes billions. Sometimes I wonder if the guys that played in leather helmets didn't have as many concussions because it forced guys to tackle more with their shoulder pads than leading with their helmets. They also didn't have rules that impacted the game in the direction of leaning on the pass (putting people in space).
Anyway, I love the game and the Cleveland Browns are a big part of my family tradition so I'm just venting about the direction Roger is taking this league. One of the biggest things I love about the game at all levels is the sense of community football can create at all levels. When I see a good sports town like St Louis get another NFL team ripped right out of their area to reward a TV market out in LA that hasn't sold out past season Dodgers game and LA Rams games in the past - it's the same black eye we all saw in the NFC Championship Game orchestrated by Roger Goodell. 3 Officials from LA on a crew that became the only 3 people in world watching that didn't see the blatant pass interference penalty. BUT, the LA market got 1 of their 2 playoff teams to the SB. I'll bet Roger is aware of the things I just spoke about which probably explains the same Chargers being the only team Hue could beat - suddenly being good enough for playoffs just 1-2 years later... The revenues have never been higher but the integrity behind it all leave a lot to be desired in this knucklehead's opinion....
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I find it interesting that the same people on this board who excuse poor play by Browns players as the byproduct of little playing time in preseason also think there's some anti-Browns conspiracy by the refs who call penalties on these supposedly rusty players "who treat September like their preseason".
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Just watched the Henry 75 yard TD. Unless you guys had a better video than I did, there is no penalty on that play.
The Landry play on the sideline was on him.
I just found a video of all the penalties:
1. Not a blindside block
2. Is absolutely the right call for Roughing the passer
3. Double team, there is a double team, cant argue that 1
4. Unnecessary roughness on Garrett. Absolutely
5. Defensive hold. He was a little early, that one could go either way. Wasn't egregious
6. Roughing the passer on Richardson was the right call. They are protecting the QB more and more and it was not needed.
7. Offsides- yeah
8. The kick. It was absolutely a kick and he should be suspended
9. False start. I can't say I see it. Looks like maybe his hand moves
10. Offensive PI. I'm sorry but it is. He pushes off to gain separation
11. Holding. It was but not one of the worst holds I have seen. But he does hold him at the POA
12. Illegal use of hands and hold on PR. Video really didn't show it
13. False start. No way to dispute it
14. Hold on Harris. Clear hold
15. 2nd hold on Harris, probably but not nearly as bad
16. Hold on Ward. It wasn't in the video and no replay. It appears that Myles was held on the play
17. Hold on Hubbard absolutely
I/or the video must have missed one. And this doesn't take into account ones that were missed on the Titans. But since I couldn't see the game I figured I would try to find a video since people were making it out to be so bad.
2 that I didn't think were flags, a couple that were penalties but could have been no calls, and a couple couldn't see in video.
The Henry 75 yard TD they were talking about illegal man down field possibly. I didn’t really focus on that but it was apparently close. The more egregious error was the hook/hold and then possibly block in the back right in front of Henry after he caught the ball. That gets called most of the Time. The lineman head may have snuck in front but he tagged him in the back shoulder.
Not taking anything else away - Heck of a play call and it was executed well. But if we are calling the game tightly as they did I don’t know how you overlook that one.
QB safety and those calls have no problem with those either they were cautious all game even to our detriment when Baker was ruled in the grasp way too early.
the interior holds were either way too picky or you were thinking how did they miss that one and I’m talking both ways. I watched the giants game right after ours- they let the interior line play go- there were some guys tackling LBs that they didn’t call.
The Henry 75 yard TD they were talking about illegal man down field possibly. I didn’t really focus on that but it was apparently close.
Clearly in your photo the ball has already been thrown.
ARTICLE 2. AFTER PASS IS THROWN
After the ball leaves the passer’s hand, ineligible pass receivers can advance more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, or beyond the position reached by their initial charge, provided that they do not block or contact a defensive player, who is more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, until the ball is touched by a player of either team. Such prior blocking and/or contact is pass interference if it occurs in the vicinity of where the ball is thrown. See 8-3-1-Note above for exception when blocker maintains continuous contact.
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#article-1.-legal-and-illegal-acts
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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