Cassel signs deal - 6 Yrs $63MM

Gips

Thats all i can say is....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Vegasdogg

What an awesome story so for regarding Cassel - doesn't start a lick in college and gets $10M per year. Says quite a bit about New England. We can't even find a consistent starter in 10+ years and these guys had 1 on the bench. LOL.

daddybull1

Could he be a product of the system (Bledsoe, Brady, Cassell) or is he that good????? Similiar to the Bronco system turning out running backs.....

Some GM's leave me scratching my head.... With his background and short history seems to me he could have been signed for much less.... What bargaining chip did he have??????

peace

T.Dawg

? Aloysius

@daddybull1 said:
Could he be a product of the system (Bledsoe, Brady, Cassell) or is he that good????? Similiar to the Bronco system turning out running backs.....

During his time with Belichick & Weis, Drew Bledsoe amassed a 5-13 record and a 77.1 passer rating (same as his career QBR). Apparently, the system didn't do much to improve his performance.

Some GM's leave me scratching my head.... With his background and short history seems to me he could have been signed for much less.... What bargaining chip did he have??????

Matt Williamson's got a good writeup on the subject:

Cassel's deal gives Chiefs long-term answer at QB

dencyguy

Incidentally, Matt Cassel is Spanish for Rob Johnson, which in turn is French for Scott Mitchell.

Dennis

Actually, that's not entirely fair, since you'd have to tie Cassel and Johnson together to equal the landmass of Mitchell.

? Aloysius

An anonymous front office guy talked to Pro Football Weekly earlier this year about Cassel/Sanchez:

PFW said:
"You can say Mark Sanchez could not even beat out Josh Booty, but if you asked Pete Carroll now, I think he would admit he probably made a mistake. People forget how close the competition was between Booty, Matt Leinart and Matt Cassel the year after Carson Palmer left. It was neck-to-neck-to-neck. Cassel came close to being the starter, but Leinart was the most mistake-free - he knew where to go with the ball and when to get rid of it. That's why he won the job. Cassel easily could have been the Heisman Trophy winner. If you look at it in retrospect, who has been the best pro? I'd say it's not even close - it's Cassel - and how many snaps did he take in college? Too many people get caught up in who the starter is, but college coaches have a lot of tough (personnel) decisions to make, too, and they don't always get them right."

I think that's a pretty good point.

AZBrowns

John David Booty was also not too shabby of a talent himself, which is part of the reason Sanchez could never beat him out.

As for Cassell, he had a good year, but I don't see him doing as well in KC. He doesn't have near the amount of weapons nor the line in KC and while he had a very good year in New England, not many QB's would fail with those weapons surrounding him.

As for the Bledsoe comparison... not really the same thing. Bledsoe's Patriots' teams had talent, but not near the talent they have today.

BrownsFan17

Aloysius said:
During his time with Belichick & Weis, Drew Bledsoe amassed a 5-13 record and a 77.1 passer rating (same as his career QBR). Apparently, the system didn't do much to improve his performance.

I think that Bledsoe wasn't compatible with their system...whether that was by choice or not....I am unsure.

ITHIKA

AdaM said:
What a huge mistake for KC, they're betting their entire franchise on a virtually unknown. Lets see how good Cassel looks behind THIS line...

Couldn't agree with you more. Lets see how good he looks without throwing to Randy Moss! We know what that did for Daunte Culpepper . I thought Poili was smarter than that. Its looking more and more like the right decision was made about our HC and GM after watching the debacle in Denver and now this.

Pumpkin Eater

Aloysius said:
During his time with Belichick & Weis, Drew Bledsoe amassed a 5-13 record and a 77.1 passer rating (same as his career QBR). Apparently, the system didn't do much to improve his performance.
Matt Williamson's got a good writeup on the subject:

Cassel's deal gives Chiefs long-term answer at QB

What was Tom Brady's rating his first year? As I recall it wasn't good, the team just won.

? Aloysius

@azbrowns said:
As for the Bledsoe comparison... not really the same thing. Bledsoe's Patriots' teams had talent, but not near the talent they have today.

That goes without saying. My point was that Bledsoe wasn't very successful with the same personnel Brady won SB's with, so saying "it's just like Denver" devalues what Brady brought to that offense. He made the system work, not the other way around.

@ithika said:
Lets see how good he looks without throwing to Randy Moss! We know what that did for Daunte Culpepper

Culpepper was a lot more reliant on Moss, who actually had a "down" year playing with Cassel.

In Minnesota, Moss accounted for 27.6% of Culpepper's completions and 34.5% of his yardage. Last year, Moss only accounted for 20.2% of Cassel's completions and 25.9% of his yardage. Cassel likes to spread it around a lot more than Daunte every has, which makes him a more consistent, harder to shut down QB.

? Aloysius

Agreed, though I think Quinn's going to have to do a better job of hitting his receivers in stride. If there's one thing to criticize about Quinn's very good first start, it's that he made his receivers work too hard: Winslow was forced to make a couple shoestring catches, and Heiden & Steptoe struggled to catch stuff thrown behind them.

That's the biggest concern I have about BQ's game.

? Aloysius

@brownsfan17 said:
I think that Bledsoe wasn't compatible with their system

Could be, though he never really found a system that made him look like more than an average starting QB. He started out strong in both Buffalo and Dallas, then quickly collapsed.

Riffer X

Aloysius said:
Agreed, though I think Quinn's going to have to do a better job of hitting his receivers in stride. If there's one thing to criticize about Quinn's very good first start, it's that he made his receivers work too hard: Winslow was forced to make a couple shoestring catches, and Heiden & Steptoe struggled to catch stuff thrown behind them.
That's the biggest concern I have about BQ's game.

That's a good point, but no matter how much improvement he needs to have he can't be worse than DA in this aspect. I also believe that this is one of those things that gets ironed out with a few starts under one's belt and a comfort zone. Comes with knowing you're the starter, plenty of reps with the ones and all that other good stuff like prep time.

Sure would have been nice if this kid already had the training wheels off by now. But hell, three games should be plenty to judge him right?

I want to see his deep ball, that and total accuracy are my two biggest question marks. All I ever hear about DA is the guy has a great deep ball and there are numerous examples like in the Skins game where he missed deep, and sometimes by being way short. Good deep throwers don't overthrow either, and a great example was Kosar. I used to bring this up all the time, but how many opportunities does an NFL QB get to actually air it out 70 yards outside of a Hail Mary?

Consistency and accuracy is the key, although a lively arm is a huge bonus. Quinn has plenty of arm. He can also throw off the run which DA flat out can't (BTW so could Frye), so that right there opens up the offense for so many other play call opportunities.

Has anybody heard if our QB's are going to have more audible options this year? I sure would like to think so.

Flugel

AdaM said:
What a huge mistake for KC, they're betting their entire franchise on a virtually unknown. Lets see how good Cassel looks behind THIS line...

I hear ya. THIS time he won't have Randy Moss or Wes Welker. I didn't catch alot of NE games but one of the ones I caught late in the season - Cassel ran the Qb draw on just about 3rd down. Moss commanded alot of attention downfield and Welker took alot of people with him underneathe so all the QB had to do was run to move the chains. Nothing wrong with taking what the D gives you but when you have KC's personnel - the opponent doesn't give you what it gives NE. Besides, last time I checked - Tyler Thigpen was REALLY good at scrambling and he appeared to be improving considerably at QB.

Here's a mini-comparison of the 2 young QBs:

Cassel: 21 TD passes 11 INTs

Thigpen: 18 TD passes 12 INTs

- Tom F.

Flugel

@shepwrite said:
So strange that we all get polarized into hyperbole, but I'm in a wait and see mode on Quinn, too. He has a ton of qualities that make him very promising as a prospect, but there are a couple issues that need to be ironed out. The hope is that's what happens with sustained starting experience.
I'm always willing to give someone another chance, but I don't get a clear vision of Anderson as a long-term successful starter in this league.

And what's nice about that is Anderson has had starts in each of the last 3 seasons to prove he's had more than a 2nd chance to show sustained improvement. The fact is that he's regressed into 4 INT performances the week of Christmas against a 4 win TB team and again 365 days later vrs a bad Cincy team. Then he led us to a couple 10-6 losses in 08 on both sides of the game we're never allowed to forget vrs the NY SLEEPING Giants.

I want to be able to face an AFC opponent that is projecting MORE than 8 wins and feel like I SHOULD be confident we have the correct leader to win that game. In the land of what have you done lately - ANY game your defense gives up only 10 points SHOULD BE a Utopian give-me for the QB if he's a legit starter. Sorry folks but the nice-nice about DA went out the window when he played Santa Claus to the Indy D for the game winning points on a day there offense wasn't able to score 1 single TD. Who really needs an oncore?

You don't draft a QB in round 1 to be saying in season #3: "I don't KNOW what this QB has" if you have a competant organization. We've done this backwards. It's prolly why DA was never embraced the way Sipe was. Sipe won and progressed; BUT that wasn't until after Phipps failed, failed, failed again and then reminded people he failed multiple times. We dotted i's, crossed t's and lost games. Point was - there came a time to unload Phipps without ever needing to contemplate "what if he REALLY has it?" Then again, Sipe was emerging as a conference MVP and the Browns were making post seasons so nobody really worried.

- Tom F.

? Aloysius

@flugel said:
Here's a mini-comparison of the 2 young QBs:
Cassel: 21 TD passes 11 INTs

Thigpen: 18 TD passes 12 INTs

I think that's where the similarities pretty much end. If you use the same logic you've been employing in the DA vs. BQ debate, it becomes clear that the Chiefs were right to bring in Cassel.

The first knock against DA is that he's always been a sub-60 completion % passer and isn't consistently accurate. Let's look at KC's two young QB's:

Cassel: 63.4%

Thigpen: 54.8%

The second knock on DA is that he regresses every year. So let's look at who finished out the season with a strong December:

Cassel: 8 TD, 1 INT, 102.7 QBr

Thigpen: 5 TD, 4 INT, 74.1 QBr

So Cassel is the more accurate passer and the only one who kept on improving throughout the year. Thigpen's a great #2 in that system, but I can understand why Pioli & Haley thought he was too inaccurate and/or erratic to be the long-term answer. Sure, Cassel will miss having Moss & Welker around, but Pioli & co. saw enough in him to think he can be their franchise QB and a winner for them when they do surround him with the weapons (and a talented enough defense) to be a contender.

And here's one more thing to consider: if Cassel was so reliant on Moss (69 rec., 1,008 yards, 11 TD's), wouldn't you say that Tyler Thigpen was even more reliant on Tony Gonzalez (96 rec., 1,058 yards, 10 TD's)? Both guys will miss having a HOF target; the Chiefs' front office seems to be a lot more confident that Cassel's the type of guy who can adjust.

Flugel

Aloysius said:
I think that's where the similarities pretty much end. If you use the same logic you've been employing in the DA vs. BQ debate, it becomes clear that the Chiefs were right to bring in Cassel.
The first knock against DA is that he's always been a sub-60 completion % passer and isn't consistently accurate. Let's look at KC's two young QB's:

Cassel: 63.4%

Thigpen: 54.8%

The second knock on DA is that he regresses every year. So let's look at who finished out the season with a strong December:

Cassel: 8 TD, 1 INT, 102.7 QBr

Thigpen: 5 TD, 4 INT, 74.1 QBr

So Cassel is the more accurate passer and the only one who kept on improving throughout the year. Thigpen's a great #2 in that system, but I can understand why Pioli & Haley thought he was too inaccurate and/or erratic to be the long-term answer. Sure, Cassel will miss having Moss & Welker around, but Pioli & co. saw enough in him to think he can be their franchise QB and a winner for them when they do surround him with the weapons (and a talented enough defense) to be a contender.

And here's one more thing to consider: if Cassel was so reliant on Moss (69 rec., 1,008 yards, 11 TD's), wouldn't you say that Tyler Thigpen was even more reliant on Tony Gonzalez (96 rec., 1,058 yards, 10 TD's)? Both guys will miss having a HOF target; the Chiefs' front office seems to be a lot more confident that Cassel's the type of guy who can adjust.

Before I get started - thanks Aloy! That was a great read and some clever points made.

My concern about the recent commitments to Cassel is he posted up numbers that were enabled by HOW Moss dictated defensive alignments and matchups for 4 different NFL QBs that enjoyed their career best seasons from that scenario. I made sure I included Wes Welker when I said "Moss or Welker" previously; because Welker actually became the go-to beneficiary in 07 and 08 as you'll see in 07 & 08 comparisons below. I don't think Wes Welker ever lit the league up until he had Moss lining up on the other side of the field making his life absolutely uncontested and stealth-like underneathe. Here's how Welker & Moss fared together under 2 different QBs the last 2 years:

Wes Welker 07: 112 rec 1175 yds 8 TDs (Brady)

Wes Welker 08: 111 rec 1165 yds 3 TDs (Cassel)

Randy Moss 07: 98 rec 1493 yds 23 TDs (Brady)

Randy Moss 08: 69 rec 1008 yds 11 TDs (Cassel)

Here's KC's top 2 receivers in 07 & 08:

Dwayne Bowe 07: 70 rec 995 yds 5 TDs (Huard/Croyle)

Dwayne Bowe 08: 86 rec 1022 yds 7 TDs (Thigpen)

Tony Gonzalez 07: 99 rec 1172 yds 5 TDs (Huard/Croyle)

Tony Gonzalez 08: 96 rec 1058 yds 10 TDs (Thigpen)

I saw slightly less reliance on Gonzalez but twice the TD efficiency while up above I saw the same heavy reliance on Wes Welker w/ uncontested dumpoffs but his 8 TD receptions dropped to 3 TDs. Meanwhile, Moss' numbers were drastically reduced from 07 to 08 (TDs, receptions, yds). That leads me to this question as we contemplate KC's enormous commitment to Cassel: Did Cassel make Moss & Welker better OR did Moss & Welker make Cassel better? Keep reading folks because I have some reminders about Qbs that teamed with Moss in the next paragraph.

The following Qbs (including Cassel) all enjoyed career best seasons or stellar seasons with Randy Moss stretching defenses and creating wonderful matchups for other talented receivers:

Tom Brady 50 TDs 8 INTs 4806 yds 117.2 passer rating 16 wins 2007 NE

R. Cunningham 34 TDs 10 INTs 3704 yds 106 passer rating 15 wins 1998 Min

D. Culpepper 33 TDs 16 INTs 3937 yds 98 passer rating 11 wins 2000 Min (1st year starting)

D. Culpepper 39 TDs 11 INTs 4717 yds 110.9 passer rating 8 wins 2004 Min

Matt Cassel 21 TDs 11 INTs 3693 yds 89.4 paser rating 10 wins NE 2008 (1st year starting)

Obviously, the inexperienced Cassel did an admirable job of filling in while I don't forget the same surrounding talent scored 50 TDs in the passing game the year before as it went undefeated. I think the NE environment is far more conducive to enabling a young Qb to improve with experience than KC was and still is. Furthermore, KC's defense gave up 444 1st downs, which ranked 31st overall and kept the offense seated. It's very safe to conclude the NE defense gave it's QB a much better margin of error. THIS is where I question throwing a 63 million $ commitment at an admirable fill-in to turn around a franchise in transition. When I think of Cunningham in Dallas & Baltimore after his career best season in 98 - No Moss turned into "No Mas." Meanwhile, Culpepper's career hasn't looked anything like it did when he had Moss creating favorable matchups everywhere for a talented lineup.

- Tom F.

Drunkandstoopid

@riffer-x said:
He can also throw off the run which DA flat out can't (BTW so could Frye), so that right there opens up the offense for so many other play call opportunities.

Yeah, Frye's ability to throw off the run obviously opened up the Browns offenses more than anything DA did.

Tobalaz

@drunkandstoopid said:
Yeah, Frye's ability to throw off the run obviously opened up the Browns offenses more than anything DA did.

And Big Gay Ben's ability opens up the Steelers' offense.

Frye just didn't have the arm to get the ball where it needed to be fast enough at a pro level.