The 'Who you watching?' 2020 thread.
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I think Winfield's injuries more than his size will hurt him. Davis will be a mid day 2 pick and Dugger is the wild card. GM's have to ask if they value his physical talent over his currently very raw mental and fundamental skill set. In my heart I can't see him as a top 50 pick. But war rooms do questionable things all the time.
just because Jeremy Chinn is more polished...
"picky, picky, picky" lol
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- No... X-block with the LG kicking out the DE and LT cutting behind him to the 2nd level. It's the 3rd piece of my 3-bulletpoint audible outline.
- Got it... so once motion overloads the Offensive left side, the D's right-side Safety will roll up. If he's the weaker tackler of your 2 Safeties, then I'm delighted.
Hey... look at me... I've got OC potential!
Thanks, man...
- OMG. DUURRRRRRRR. Sorry about that. Yeah, I've been up since 5am so that's my bad. Yes, that could be a counter but if that 3tech's initial punch puts that LG back then the pull won't be... ideal. You also have to consider that you've pretty much screamed where the ball is going as most everyone in the history of anything will attack that pull. You also don't need to have Von Miller to that side because any quality weakside edge is going to make that an incredibly spotty call.
- I think the weaker tackling safety thing just goes back to the need for having interchangeable DB's back there. You want bodies that can cover, run and hit.
- I'd say so.
In our Board draft, the safeties went in this order: Xavier McKinney Ala #24. Grant Delpit LSU 31. Kyle Dugger Lenoir-Rhyne #39, Antoine Winfield Minn. #41; Ashtyn Davis Call #43; Jeremy Chinn #69 (rd. 3)...and not another until after pick 100.
How do you all think that shook down....and should we expect similar in the real draft?
I wouldn't expect it to be similar. I also would be willing to bet a great deal Dugger isn't drafted in the top 50 either. Likewise for Winfield Jr.
I wouldn't expect it to be similar.
So like Ag, NFL war rooms do not use CBS' prospect listing? ?
lol...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So like Ag, NFL war rooms do not use CBS' prospect listing? ?
lol...
What do you use?
I would use the Browns scouting reports if we were privy to them...or any other NFL teams. If you have a scouting service that is better, more professional/expert that is accessible I suppose that could be considered. (FYI...that excludes your opinions You are as much or more of an amateur as I am. )
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So like Ag, NFL war rooms do not use CBS' prospect listing? ?
lol...
What do you use?
I would use the Browns scouting reports if we were privy to them...or any other NFL teams. If you have a scouting service that is better, more professional/expert that is accessible I suppose that could be considered. (FYI...that excludes your opinions You are as much or more of an amateur as I am. )
What do you use?
I would use the Browns scouting reports if we were privy to them...or any other NFL teams. If you have a scouting service that is better, more professional/expert that is accessible I suppose that could be considered. (FYI...that excludes your opinions You are as much or more of an amateur as I am. )
First, Gip... there are no degrees of amateurism... you either is or you ain't... and since neither of us are paid for our football opinions... we is.
Now the degree to which our opinions are in fact our opinions and not some homogenized amalgamation of other peoples' work... well... there's clearly a difference between us.
Who do I look to for guidance? As always for me it's the outfit that used to power your CBS bunch... DraftScout... and IMO they are better than ever. Not because their evaluations are better, but because they no longer pretend that they can differentiate prospects as finely as other services seemingly pretend that they can. Here's a sample...
While they still "rank" prospects... it's kind of a requirement when you create a list... they've now "Tiered" them as well. And rather than assigning them a round they bracket an appropriate range. DraftScout is not up front with their methodology, but it appears to be a compilation of many scouting sources... not dissimilar to fivethirtyeight's compilation of poll data. What DraftSCout does not do... at least in the free info available from them... is provide summary write ups. So you have to dig for info and/or look at tape to learn more.
Otherwise I get ideas from the various Draft sims I mess with... mostly out of desperation when I get into the later rounds and don't recognize many names. Some of the sims such as DraftNetwork's have fairly extensive, easily accessible player evals... often multiple ones. How "expert" are they? I don't know and I don't care, because I don't parrot them.
From there it's a matter of how you choose to use the work of all the above... from final stop to springboard. As can be told by my take on this OT class I tend towards the latter.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What do you use?
I would use the Browns scouting reports if we were privy to them...or any other NFL teams. If you have a scouting service that is better, more professional/expert that is accessible I suppose that could be considered. (FYI...that excludes your opinions You are as much or more of an amateur as I am. )
First, Gip... there are no degrees of amateurism... you either is or you ain't... and since neither of us are paid for our football opinions... we is.
Now the degree to which our opinions are in fact our opinions and not some homogenized amalgamation of other peoples' work... well... there's clearly a difference between us.
Who do I look to for guidance? As always for me it's the outfit that used to power your CBS bunch... DraftScout... and IMO they are better than ever. Not because their evaluations are better, but because they no longer pretend that they can differentiate prospects as finely as other services seemingly pretend that they can. Here's a sample...
While they still "rank" prospects... it's kind of a requirement when you create a list... they've now "Tiered" them as well. And rather than assigning them a round they bracket an appropriate range. DraftScout is not up front with their methodology, but it appears to be a compilation of many scouting sources... not dissimilar to fivethirtyeight's compilation of poll data. What DraftSCout does not do... at least in the free info available from them... is provide summary write ups. So you have to dig for info and/or look at tape to learn more.
Otherwise I get ideas from the various Draft sims I mess with... mostly out of desperation when I get into the later rounds and don't recognize many names. Some of the sims such as DraftNetwork's have fairly extensive, easily accessible player evals... often multiple ones. How "expert" are they? I don't know and I don't care, because I don't parrot them.
From there it's a matter of how you choose to use the work of all the above... from final stop to springboard. As can be told by my take on this OT class I tend towards the latter.
First, Gip... there are no degrees of amateurism... you either is or you ain't... and since neither of us are paid for our football opinions... we is.
Now the degree to which our opinions are in fact our opinions and not some homogenized amalgamation of other peoples' work... well... there's clearly a difference between us.
Maybe...that difference being I do not feign at all to be expert in it. I look to other's work, same as you...I just admit that I am not that interested in it. It bores me. Maybe it doesn't bore you.
Who do I look to for guidance? As always for me it's the outfit that used to power your CBS bunch... DraftScout... and IMO they are better than ever. Not because their evaluations are better, but because they no longer pretend that they can differentiate prospects as finely as other services seemingly pretend that they can. Here's a sample...
While they still "rank" prospects... it's kind of a requirement when you create a list... they've now "Tiered" them as well. And rather than assigning them a round they bracket an appropriate range. DraftScout is not up front with their methodology, but it appears to be a compilation of many scouting sources... not dissimilar to fivethirtyeight's compilation of poll data. What DraftSCout does not do... at least in the free info available from them... is provide summary write ups. So you have to dig for info and/or look at tape to learn more.
Otherwise I get ideas from the various Draft sims I mess with... mostly out of desperation when I get into the later rounds and don't recognize many names. Some of the sims such as DraftNetwork's have fairly extensive, easily accessible player evals... often multiple ones. How "expert" are they? I don't know and I don't care, because I don't parrot them.
From there it's a matter of how you choose to use the work of all the above... from final stop to springboard. As can be told by my take on this OT class I tend towards the latter.
What I see here is that these services more or less placed Tristan Wirf at the top of the rankings..... and that given the choice of whom to take, Wirfs would seem to be the guy....yet when I chose him for the Browns, you more or less disparaged that choice. Curioser and curioser Alice.
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First, Gip... there are no degrees of amateurism... you either is or you ain't... and since neither of us are paid for our football opinions... we is.
Now the degree to which our opinions are in fact our opinions and not some homogenized amalgamation of other peoples' work... well... there's clearly a difference between us.
Maybe...that difference being I do not feign at all to be expert in it. I look to other's work, same as you...I just admit that I am not that interested in it. It bores me. Maybe it doesn't bore you.
Who do I look to for guidance? As always for me it's the outfit that used to power your CBS bunch... DraftScout... and IMO they are better than ever. Not because their evaluations are better, but because they no longer pretend that they can differentiate prospects as finely as other services seemingly pretend that they can. Here's a sample...
While they still "rank" prospects... it's kind of a requirement when you create a list... they've now "Tiered" them as well. And rather than assigning them a round they bracket an appropriate range. DraftScout is not up front with their methodology, but it appears to be a compilation of many scouting sources... not dissimilar to fivethirtyeight's compilation of poll data. What DraftSCout does not do... at least in the free info available from them... is provide summary write ups. So you have to dig for info and/or look at tape to learn more.
Otherwise I get ideas from the various Draft sims I mess with... mostly out of desperation when I get into the later rounds and don't recognize many names. Some of the sims such as DraftNetwork's have fairly extensive, easily accessible player evals... often multiple ones. How "expert" are they? I don't know and I don't care, because I don't parrot them.
From there it's a matter of how you choose to use the work of all the above... from final stop to springboard. As can be told by my take on this OT class I tend towards the latter.
What I see here is that these services more or less placed Tristan Wirf at the top of the rankings..... and that given the choice of whom to take, Wirfs would seem to be the guy....yet when I chose him for the Browns, you more or less disparaged that choice. Curioser and curioser Alice.
What I see here is that these services more or less placed Tristan Wirf at the top of the rankings..... and that given the choice of whom to take, Wirfs would seem to be the guy....yet when I chose him for the Browns, you more or less disparaged that choice. Curioser and curioser Alice.
Not at all, Madhatter... just shows what we already know differentiates my prospect opinions from your CBS list... I mean your "opinions". But I'll tell you what's curious...
Ever noticed that there's essentially no support around here for Wirfs?
I doubt it...
You did not even notice that DraftScout put Wirfs thru Thomas all in the same Tier and same pick range... and that's after I explained it to you. That means they are essentially all the same in their eyes...
Ditto for a DraftNet range of 7,8 - 10,11 says the prospects are indistinguishable in their evaluators eyes.
That's alright tho... you need the strict adherence of them as listed to validate what your eyes haven't "seen".
I don't cause I cheat... I look at the prospects.
And yeah it is fun... even when I'm wrong.
As for you not "feigning expertise"... do want to put that to a poll? lol...
As for looking to others work... yes, we both do. The difference is that is the end of your curiosity... while it's the beginning of mine.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What I see here is that these services more or less placed Tristan Wirf at the top of the rankings..... and that given the choice of whom to take, Wirfs would seem to be the guy....yet when I chose him for the Browns, you more or less disparaged that choice. Curioser and curioser Alice.
Not at all, Madhatter... just shows what we already know differentiates my prospect opinions from your CBS list... I mean your "opinions". But I'll tell you what's curious...
Ever noticed that there's essentially no support around here for Wirfs?
I doubt it...
You did not even notice that DraftScout put Wirfs thru Thomas all in the same Tier and same pick range... and that's after I explained it to you. That means they are essentially all the same in their eyes...
Ditto for a DraftNet range of 7,8 - 10,11 says the prospects are indistinguishable in their evaluators eyes.
That's alright tho... you need the strict adherence of them as listed to validate what your eyes haven't "seen".
I don't cause I cheat... I look at the prospects.
And yeah it is fun... even when I'm wrong.
As for you not "feigning expertise"... do want to put that to a poll? lol...
As for looking to others work... yes, we both do. The difference is that is the end of your curiosity... while it's the beginning of mine.
Not at all, Madhatter... just shows what we already know differentiates my prospect opinions from your CBS list... I mean your "opinions". But I'll tell you what's curious...
Ever noticed that there's essentially no support around here for Wirfs?
I doubt it...
You did not even notice that DraftScout put Wirfs thru Thomas all in the same Tier and same pick range... and that's after I explained it to you. That means they are essentially all the same in their eyes...
What I noticed is that when they ranked them, the had Wirfs on top
Ditto for a DraftNet range of 7,8 - 10,11 says the prospects are indistinguishable in their evaluators eyes.
But, again, they had Wirfs on Top.
That's alright tho... you need the strict adherence of them as listed to validate what your eyes haven't "seen".
I don't need anything really. I was only playing the Browns Board Mock Draft game. I took the guy that was ranked highest. But maybe I would have taken the guy you like...but the fact was....someone else grabbed him and he was not there. I am only explaining my selection of Wirfs, not defending it...other than to say he was the top ranked guy available.
I don't cause I cheat... I look at the prospects.
And yeah it is fun... even when I'm wrong.
If it supposed to be fun...then why do you take it so seriously? And express righteous indignation when some opinion runs counter to yours?
I mean, I don't care that much. All I really care about is that the Browns actually get the pick right.
As for you not "feigning expertise"... do want to put that to a poll? lol...
Sure....because I have never, ever, ever, never pretended or declared that I was some kind of scouting afficianado. ever.
As for looking to others work... yes, we both do. The difference is that is the end of your curiosity... while it's the beginning of mine.
Yes it is the end of mine. Like I said all that shit you waste your time with....scouting players, scouring scouting servies, bores the fucking life out of me. As for their being no support for Wirfs here, which of the other people on here are professional football scouts? And when you had the opportunity to put whatever efforts you have made doing all that boring shite....by participating in the Board draft....you weaseled out. Took your ball and went home. Why? Because you didn't get to pick for the Browns? Well, the rule around here was that whoever stepped up to the plate to run the game as commish got to take the Browns. I would have turned it over to you if you wanted that badly. If that was it, well then, next year...step up!
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"Step up" ... lol...
As for your boredom... fine... not your thing... but in that case...
... why is it you are posting in a thread entitled, "Who are you watching?"
lol..
It's abundantly clear that your only post should have been, "No one."
That would have cut this thread's page count by about a third...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
"Step up" ... lol...
As for your boredom... fine... not your thing... but in that case...
... why is it you are posting in a thread entitled, "Who are you watching?"
lol..
It's abundantly clear that your only post should have been, "No one."
That would have cut this thread's page count by about a third...
"Step up" ... lol...
As for your boredom... fine... not your thing... but in that case...
... why is it you are posting in a thread entitled, "Who are you watching?"
lol..
It's abundantly clear that your only post should have been, "No one."
That would have cut this thread's page count by about a third...
Actually....I did not start that (this) thread with that title .....I think it was one that got merged with another thread that I did start....so my name got attributed to beginning this, but this was combined. Have to ask Z or Larry how/why that happened. Here is my original post....it may have been entitled like "Draft Talk or Draft needs" ? or something:
I believe, with this loss, the Browns are mathematically eliminated. Even with their loss, the Titans worst record can be 8-8. The best the Browns can be is 8-8. The Tits hold the head to head tie breaker. Maybe, if, somehow, there were a 3 way tie or something they could still have a chance....but who can count on that.
Ergo....time for draft talk. Right? Too early?
As things stand now, the Browns would draft basically right in the middle: #14.
Besides better coaching...better coaching...and better coaching what are the Browns most pressing personnel needs to go after in FA or the Draft?
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"Step up" ... lol...
As for your boredom... fine... not your thing... but in that case...
... why is it you are posting in a thread entitled, "Who are you watching?"
lol..
It's abundantly clear that your only post should have been, "No one."
That would have cut this thread's page count by about a third...
Actually....I did not start that (this) thread with that title .....I think it was one that got merged with another thread that I did start....so my name got attributed to beginning this, but this was combined. Have to ask Z or Larry how/why that happened. Here is my original post....it may have been entitled like "Draft Talk or Draft needs" ? or something:
I believe, with this loss, the Browns are mathematically eliminated. Even with their loss, the Titans worst record can be 8-8. The best the Browns can be is 8-8. The Tits hold the head to head tie breaker. Maybe, if, somehow, there were a 3 way tie or something they could still have a chance....but who can count on that.
Ergo....time for draft talk. Right? Too early?
As things stand now, the Browns would draft basically right in the middle: #14.
Besides better coaching...better coaching...and better coaching what are the Browns most pressing personnel needs to go after in FA or the Draft?
Actually....I did not start that (this) thread.....I think it was one that got merged with another thread that I did start....so my name got attributed to begining this, but this was combined. Have to ask Z or Larry how/why that happened.
It was my thread at first.
Couldn't even begin to tell why all that happened.
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Day 3 guys like...
Terence Steele RT Texas Tech may take a flyer on him Day 3. One of those depth developmental guys. 4 year starter 2 year Captain.Anthony McFarland RB Maryland the high ankle sprain this past year derailed his probable Top 50-75 prospect status. Someone may look past it and draft him in that area. But he’s Speed and a great #2 possibility for us post Hunt.
Austin Mack WR OSU. caught the ball his senior year. nice size body control good route runner. Was a big time recruit that just developed later and got lost in crowd at OSU.
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"Step up" ... lol...
As for your boredom... fine... not your thing... but in that case...
... why is it you are posting in a thread entitled, "Who are you watching?"
lol..
It's abundantly clear that your only post should have been, "No one."
That would have cut this thread's page count by about a third...
Why are you are posting in a thread entitled, "Who are you watching?"
That would have cut this thread's page count by about a third...
Why does a drug addict continue to do drugs?
Because they just can't help themselves. THEY HAVE TO DO IT.
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Why does a drug addict continue to do drugs?
Because they just can't help themselves. THEY HAVE TO DO IT.
Is that self introspection?
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In preparation for the possibility of Andrew Thomas being gone before 10, I really wanted to take a (much) longer look at Josh Jones. And my 2nd viewing ended up being way more favorable than the initial one. Who said 1st impressions are the most important...?
The So Good
- Good pad level and knee bend while not being overly slumped at the waist.
- Back flat and head up at the snap
- Hand placement and control when hitting a chip or combo block then moving to the 2nd level. Much like Peart from UConn, he pretty routinely hit his mark when he got to LB's.
- Good eyes picking up delayed pressures on slide protects
- Quick pivot off lead foot and hip flexibility coming out of pulls. Lateral movement doesn't appear to be much of an issue.
- Solid lock out on arms once he gets his hands on would-be rushers
- Lateral movement passing off and picking up rushers on stunts looks clean
- Heavy hands and strikes in run blocking, tends to "lean into" the hit at times. But on the flip side, he doesn't lower his eyes. There's a lot to be said about seeing what you're hitting.
The Not So Great.
- 2pt stance is a bit narrow at times. Not dangerously narrow at the college level, but it will really be necessary to have coaches work that out of him. Narrow base made him a bit more susceptible to a bull rush but he recovered from good lower strength more often than not. But he has some "pigeon toed" work to his stance that needs corrected.
- Kick step is... not ideal. Sometimes he drops his lead foot back and ends up taking a few back steps before an actual "kick" technique can be seen.
- A few times he seemed to be confused by his assignment when he didn't have chip help. Film room and position coach will have a baseline on where to start his mental development as well.
- First punch against edge in pass pro isn't devastating but seems to work decent enough. He can see it with his eyes up, I would just like to see a heavier contact until the footwork can be cleaned up.
- Not sure about his wingspan, haven't double checked the numbers. Doesn't look ridiculous, despite the fact he redirects edge rushers outside and far enough up field away from QB. So arm length might be an issue at some point? Though that is just more of a gut feeling than anything.
- Some pretty nasty wiffs on cut blocks
I came away not feeling overwhelmed and I still prefer Andrew Thomas. But I do see a viable prospect with upside who won't be experiencing an even steeper learning curve by being drafted as a RT only to have to flip to the opposite side while getting adjusted to NFL speed. I don't suppose I would hate the pick at 10, but if there's a trade down paired with him not being off the board at the next pick - I would feel more comfortable with that.
edit: Just consulted with @tour2ma's OL combine measurement thread... my eyes are still pretty sharp. JJ checks in on the smaller side of arm length and total wingspan.
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Unpopular opinion after a little late night comparison session.
- I would take Okie's Gallimore to be a nose in the defense I would build before I would take South Carolina's Kinlaw.
Especially unpopular with certain grading sites.
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Unpopular opinion after a little late night comparison session.
- I would take Okie's Gallimore to be a nose in the defense I would build before I would take South Carolina's Kinlaw.
Especially unpopular with certain grading sites.
Unpopular opinion after a little late night comparison session.
- I would take Okie's Gallimore to be a nose in the defense I would build before I would take South Carolina's Kinlaw.
Especially unpopular with certain grading sites.
Some have him rated as 2d round. Could be value pick if he were to drop to #41.
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Unpopular opinion after a little late night comparison session.
- I would take Okie's Gallimore to be a nose in the defense I would build before I would take South Carolina's Kinlaw.
Especially unpopular with certain grading sites.
Some have him rated as 2d round. Could be value pick if he were to drop to #41.
Some have him rated as 2d round. Could be value pick if he were to drop to #41.
That's still high to take a position we have currently played by Jobi and Billings (to an extent)
The kid is good and I'd love to have him, but we have bigger needs elsewhere.
Oh, and, we might have to start talking about Geno Stone.
edit: @calfoxwc Might want to watch the above clip when you get a chance. You're one of the more vocal people on this board about finding "football players" first and foremost. Stone might be the embodiment of that phrase.
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I’m not trying to be an OSU homer but I’m running the pick up if Davon Hamilton is available to us in the 3rd round. I watched the Senior Bowl yesterday. He was getting great penetration. By expert accounts he had a great week there too. I’m not basing it all on the Sr. Bowl he anchored the interior very well for OSU and did well in the few opportunities he had.
I think he was very solid last year but invisible at times with Chase Young. I had him as a good run stuffer, but I think he’s got some potential getting some interior pass rush as well.
we are talking about guys in the 1st and 2nd this is one of those sleeper 3rd rounders
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I’m not trying to be an OSU homer but I’m running the pick up if Davon Hamilton is available to us in the 3rd round. I watched the Senior Bowl yesterday. He was getting great penetration. By expert accounts he had a great week there too. I’m not basing it all on the Sr. Bowl he anchored the interior very well for OSU and did well in the few opportunities he had.
I think he was very solid last year but invisible at times with Chase Young. I had him as a good run stuffer, but I think he’s got some potential getting some interior pass rush as well.
we are talking about guys in the 1st and 2nd this is one of those sleeper 3rd rounders
I’m not trying to be an OSU homer but I’m running the pick up if Davon Hamilton is available to us in the 3rd round. I watched the Senior Bowl yesterday. He was getting great penetration. By expert accounts he had a great week there too. I’m not basing it all on the Sr. Bowl he anchored the interior very well for OSU and did well in the few opportunities he had.
I think he was very solid last year but invisible at times with Chase Young. I had him as a good run stuffer, but I think he’s got some potential getting some interior pass rush as well.
we are talking about guys in the 1st and 2nd this is one of those sleeper 3rd rounders
That's the nice thing about hammy, he might fall to late 3rd and beyond. Probably 4th.
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