Don't Bet Against Quinn
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@shepwrite said:
I do know it's a list of NFL total non-entities, right?I disagree. Just look at the last two draft classes:
2008: John Carlson had 55 catches as a rookie. Trevor Laws was stuck behind a bunch of veterans last year, but he's certainly a talented player (he dominated at the Senior Bowl). John Sullivan will be starting for the Vikings this year.
2007: Abiamiri would have started for the Iggles last year had he not gotten hurt during camp. Ryan Harris has turned into a very good right tackle (only allowed 2.5 sacks last year). It looks like Ndukwe's going to be a backup this year, but he's a decent player.
Not sure why any of this matters much, but we don't have to trash young players for not contributing. That's Lum's job re: Quinn.
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Zombo said:
Haven't even read the article yet, just responding to Shep's comparison of Quinn's arm and intelligence to Manning's.You know maybe all the things Shep says about Quinn will come true, maybe not. But I heard him say the exact same things about Joey Harrington.
So far in the NFL Brady Quinn has won one game, has thrown two TDs, has a passer rating of 65 and got punched by a teammate.
It's not playing out like the Peyton Manning story.
I have great hope for Quinn as well.
But can we wait until he effing does something at this level before we gush?
Go out and win 11 games, throw for 4,000 yards and 30 TDs and I'll gush like a motherphucker.
Zombo
So, why won't you jump on Lumbergh when he gushes something about Derek Anderson that's completely off-base? I think that's what some have a beef with.
Not trying to jump on you Zombo, but that's the kind of impression I get. That you go back and forthwith Shep for his Quinn-love, but ignore Lumbergh for his DA-love. Why is that?
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@shepwrite said:
I do know it's a list of NFL total non-entities, right?I disagree. Just look at the last two draft classes:
2008: John Carlson had 55 catches as a rookie. Trevor Laws was stuck behind a bunch of veterans last year, but he's certainly a talented player (he dominated at the Senior Bowl). John Sullivan will be starting for the Vikings this year.
2007: Abiamiri would have started for the Iggles last year had he not gotten hurt during camp. Ryan Harris has turned into a very good right tackle (only allowed 2.5 sacks last year). It looks like Ndukwe's going to be a backup this year, but he's a decent player.
Not sure why any of this matters much, but we don't have to trash young players for not contributing. That's Lum's job re: Quinn.
Aloysius said:
I disagree. Just look at the last two draft classes:2008: John Carlson had 55 catches as a rookie. Trevor Laws was stuck behind a bunch of veterans last year, but he's certainly a talented player (he dominated at the Senior Bowl). John Sullivan will be starting for the Vikings this year.
2007: Abiamiri would have started for the Iggles last year had he not gotten hurt. Ryan Harris has turned into a very good right tackle. It looks like Ndukwe's going to be a backup this year, but he's a decent player.
Not sure why any of this matters much, but we don't have to trash young players for not contributing. That's Lum's job re: Quinn.
I know, I know. That's why I put him on ignore to begin with, I cant' resist.
I think I suggested picking up Laws for a DE if he was available round 4ish way back when.
Quinn played with Carlson for 1 season (and Carlson is going to be a solid TE, imo) because he was sitting behind Anthony Fasano (who is now Jason Witten's towel boy) both good TE's at ND and good weapons for Quinn. Carlson often created Winslow-esque mismatches because of his size, speed & hands.
As much as it pains me to say it, Zibby will probably be a good safety for the Ratheap.
As one of the Domer's on the board I've long maintained that with a half-step more, Darius Walker would have been Barry Sanders.
And yes, Samardzija was a pigskin magnet when the Irish needed a big play (except during the fiesta bowl against tOSU. The coverage on him looked like the prison shower scene from American History X).
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Zombo said:
Shep is a much more formidable opponent. No one really challenges him sometimes, so I pick up the mantle.
Lumbergh bores me (other than a good one-line zinger every now and then) and has plenty of opposition, you guys don't need me to battle Lumbergh.
But someone has to keep Shep in check or he'll have Brady in the Hall before he wins his second game.
Zombo
Fair enough answer for me....
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Aloysius said:
I disagree. Just look at the last two draft classes:2008: John Carlson had 55 catches as a rookie. Trevor Laws was stuck behind a bunch of veterans last year, but he's certainly a talented player (he dominated at the Senior Bowl). John Sullivan will be starting for the Vikings this year.
2007: Abiamiri would have started for the Iggles last year had he not gotten hurt. Ryan Harris has turned into a very good right tackle. It looks like Ndukwe's going to be a backup this year, but he's a decent player.
Not sure why any of this matters much, but we don't have to trash young players for not contributing. That's Lum's job re: Quinn.
I know, I know. That's why I put him on ignore to begin with, I cant' resist.
I think I suggested picking up Laws for a DE if he was available round 4ish way back when.
Quinn played with Carlson for 1 season (and Carlson is going to be a solid TE, imo) because he was sitting behind Anthony Fasano (who is now Jason Witten's towel boy) both good TE's at ND and good weapons for Quinn. Carlson often created Winslow-esque mismatches because of his size, speed & hands.
As much as it pains me to say it, Zibby will probably be a good safety for the Ratheap.
As one of the Domer's on the board I've long maintained that with a half-step more, Darius Walker would have been Barry Sanders.
And yes, Samardzija was a pigskin magnet when the Irish needed a big play (except during the fiesta bowl against tOSU. The coverage on him looked like the prison shower scene from American History X).
I think I suggested picking up Laws for a DE if he was available round 4ish way back when.
Quinn played with Carlson for 1 season (and Carlson is going to be a solid TE, imo) because he was sitting behind Anthony Fasano (who is now Jason Witten's towel boy) both good TE's at ND and good weapons for Quinn. Carlson often created Winslow-esque mismatches because of his size, speed & hands.
As much as it pains me to say it, Zibby will probably be a good safety for the Ratheap.
As one of the Domer's on the board I've long maintained that with a half-step more, Darius Walker would have been Barry Sanders.
And yes, Samardzija was a pigskin magnet when the Irish needed a big play (except during the fiesta bowl against tOSU. The coverage on him looked like the prison shower scene from American History X).
I'm pretty much with you on Walker. Still not sure why he fell out of the league; he looked pretty good as a rookie (4.6 YPC in Houston).
Parcells ended up bringing Fasano with him to Miami, which was another one of his smart roster moves. He caught 34 passes and scored 7 TD's last year.
And I think you're right to value what Samardzija brought to the team. I'm in the middle of a book on Weis's first year at ND; it mentions how excited Weis was to have two 6'5" wideouts to work with. Stovall may not be quick enough to separate from NFL corners, but he was a big help during Quinn's junior year (1149 yards, 11 TD's). I wonder how much losing Stovall contributed to the weaknesses some spotted (or imagined) in Quinn's game in '06.
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Rhema Mcknight was injured Quinn's jr year, but was there for his Sr. He had Samardzija's hands but not his height - he could have been a difference maker in a couple close games (USC) and made some of the beatdowns a little closer (tOSU).
Forgot Tuna took Fasano the fellow Jersey boy to Miami. Pat White will look to use him as an outlet quite often if he can force himself not to take off and run with it.
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@shepwrite said:
Okay, Babaloo. Let's agree that you listed a bunch of decent but not great players and that Quinn carried Notre Dame his last two years.Phew. Finally.
Shep, you keep trying to rationalize in some manner that Quinn carried that team even though he was surrounded by talent only a few NCAA Division one teams could match. Now you're playing the - They're not current NFL superstars - card. The all got drafted, which basically means if Notre Dame had actually been in any of the major conferences, those kids would have likely all been first or second team all-conference, maybe third team at worst. That list didn't even include all the free agent signings. Notre Dame has a history of getting major recruits, and it didn't stop suddenly around the time Quinn signed.
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I hate to have to look up once again the juniors and seniors who later got NFL contracts or strong interest that Brady played behind, done it before.
Quinn played with all these guys. He also played with guys like Ryan Grant of the Packers who wasn't drafted and also Jeff "the man responsible for Brady Quinn's career" Samardzija
2008 2 38 SEA John Carlson TE
2008 2 47 PHI Trevor Laws DT
2008 3 86 BAL Tom Zbikowski DB
2008 6 187 MIN John Sullivan C
2007 2 57 PHI Victor Abiamiri DE
2007 3 70 DEN Ryan Harris T
2007 5 166 JAX Derek Landri DT
2007 6 202 NWE Mike Richardson DB
2007 7 230 CIN Dan Santucci G
2007 7 253 CIN Nedu Ndukwe DB
2006 2 53 DAL Anthony Fasano TE
2006 3 90 TAM Maurice Stovall WR
2006 6 205 NWE Dan Stevenson G
2005 3 74 NYG Justin Tuck DE
2005 5 144 STL Jerome Collins TE
2004 2 43 DAL Julius Jones RB
2004 2 60 NOR Courtney Watson LB
2004 4 122 HOU Glenn Earl DB
2004 6 170 HOU Vontez Duff DB
2004 6 180 WAS Jim Molinaro T
Quinn played with all these guys. He also played with guys like Ryan Grant of the Packers who wasn't drafted and also Jeff "the man responsible for Brady Quinn's career" Samardzija
Okay, what's the point?
2008 5 157 Roy Schuening OG Rams
2008 7 243 Joey LaRocque ILB Bears
2007 2 64 Sabby Piscitelli S Buccaneers
2007 6 189 Adam Koets OT Giants
2006 6 171 Mike Hass WR Saints
2006 6 178 Keith Ellison LB Bills
2005 6 184 Bill Swancutt DE Lions
2005 6 213 Derek Anderson QB Ravens
2005 7 254 Doug Nienhuis OT Seahawks
2004 1 24 Steven Jackson RB Rams
2004 2 51 Dwan Edwards DT Ravens
2004 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Bills
2004 4 127 Richard Seigler LB 49ers
2003 1 29 Nick Barnett LB Packers
2003 4 98 Dennis Weathersby CB Bengals
2003 5 147 James Lee DT Packers
2002 3 82 James Allen LB Saints
2001 2 36 Chad Johnson WR Bengals
2001 3 89 DeLawrence Grant DE Raiders
2001 6 185 Mitch White OT Saints
2001 7 204 T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR Bengals
And these are Derek's players.
Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow are responsible for DA's one hit wonder of a year.
So what's your point, jackass? I can play this game too.
"I will not insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said." William F Buckley -
Quinn played with all these guys. He also played with guys like Ryan Grant of the Packers who wasn't drafted and also Jeff "the man responsible for Brady Quinn's career" Samardzija
Okay, what's the point?
2008 5 157 Roy Schuening OG Rams
2008 7 243 Joey LaRocque ILB Bears
2007 2 64 Sabby Piscitelli S Buccaneers
2007 6 189 Adam Koets OT Giants
2006 6 171 Mike Hass WR Saints
2006 6 178 Keith Ellison LB Bills
2005 6 184 Bill Swancutt DE Lions
2005 6 213 Derek Anderson QB Ravens
2005 7 254 Doug Nienhuis OT Seahawks
2004 1 24 Steven Jackson RB Rams
2004 2 51 Dwan Edwards DT Ravens
2004 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Bills
2004 4 127 Richard Seigler LB 49ers
2003 1 29 Nick Barnett LB Packers
2003 4 98 Dennis Weathersby CB Bengals
2003 5 147 James Lee DT Packers
2002 3 82 James Allen LB Saints
2001 2 36 Chad Johnson WR Bengals
2001 3 89 DeLawrence Grant DE Raiders
2001 6 185 Mitch White OT Saints
2001 7 204 T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR Bengals
And these are Derek's players.
Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow are responsible for DA's one hit wonder of a year.
So what's your point, jackass? I can play this game too.
Okay, what's the point?
2008 5 157 Roy Schuening OG Rams
2008 7 243 Joey LaRocque ILB Bears
2007 2 64 Sabby Piscitelli S Buccaneers
2007 6 189 Adam Koets OT Giants
2006 6 171 Mike Hass WR Saints
2006 6 178 Keith Ellison LB Bills
2005 6 184 Bill Swancutt DE Lions
2005 6 213 Derek Anderson QB Ravens
2005 7 254 Doug Nienhuis OT Seahawks
2004 1 24 Steven Jackson RB Rams
2004 2 51 Dwan Edwards DT Ravens
2004 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Bills
2004 4 127 Richard Seigler LB 49ers
2003 1 29 Nick Barnett LB Packers
2003 4 98 Dennis Weathersby CB Bengals
2003 5 147 James Lee DT Packers
2002 3 82 James Allen LB Saints
2001 2 36 Chad Johnson WR Bengals
2001 3 89 DeLawrence Grant DE Raiders
2001 6 185 Mitch White OT Saints
2001 7 204 T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR Bengals
And these are Derek's players.
Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow are responsible for DA's one hit wonder of a year.
So what's your point, jackass? I can play this game too.
Thanks Vegas.
No wonder Derek was so "successful" in college. That is a significant supporting cast.
I'm still wondering why Derek was so "successful" in the legendary Pro-Bowl appearance.
Heaven knows the supporting cast in the Pro-Bowl wasn't worth mentioning.
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@shepwrite said:
C'mon, it's Notre Dame. They get players.But almost nobody would dispute the truth of those two Quinn-led teams, that they were beyond abysmal on defense and couldn't match up in the trenches with any Top 20 type of team. They got bullied.
The AP ranked Notre Dame #2 in the preseason in 2006. They had all the pieces to get some people excited. But it became clear they did not belong with the big boys.
And from what I've learned from the armchair QBs here all failures of a team fall entirely on the shoulders of the quarterback.
Or maybe that applies only in situations not involving your beloved Brady Quinn.
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@inspecta said:
It applies when your defense holds teams to 10 points or less and the oaf behind center can't top that total.You get an all pro performance out of your defense against the Steelers
you mean that game when Hurricane Ike was passing thru Cleveland? Way to go Ike, errr I mean Defense.
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@inspecta said:
You never stop with the excuses when it comes to Anderson do you?I beg your pardon, oh ye maniacally obsessed one.
The Hurricane Ike reference was in reply to your statement: all pro performance out of the defense
Sorry "Inspecta Man's Ass", but no the D was not All Pro.
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@inspecta said:
Jesus man....when are you going to learn that football is about getting the job done and not making excuses out of everything under the sun....says the leader of the "QUINNIE WAS INCAPACITATED BY THE FINGER BOO BOO" club
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nice rosy piece of fluff WPB.
Or should we just call you "Eric Murtaugh" now?
I didn't finish the article, but in that glorious remembrance of his college days, did it mention his stats in the bowl game where DA beat his ass down and won the game MVP?
nice rosy piece of fluff WPB.
Or should we just call you "Eric Murtaugh" now?
I didn't finish the article, but in that glorious remembrance of his college days, did it mention his stats in the bowl game where DA beat his ass down and won the game MVP?
LOL! Lookout - Loverboy straps on the Lancelot armor to fight for his man. He's breaking out the Hurricane Ike alibis as we speak.
What do you call a passing game led by Dumb Ass? Pointless. Other acceptable answers include: a coma, nightmare, "no brains no gains" or end of a head coaching career.
Why is it that DA only completes Loverboy? If he could only complete a forward pass half as easily we wouldn't have to pray for another QB with brains above the ass.
- Tom F. (I wonder if Dumb Ass autographed Loverboy's dildo yet)
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@inspecta said:
Jesus man....when are you going to learn that football is about getting the job done and not making excuses out of everything under the sun....says the leader of the "QUINNIE WAS INCAPACITATED BY THE FINGER BOO BOO" club
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@shepwrite said:
C'mon, it's Notre Dame. They get players.But almost nobody would dispute the truth of those two Quinn-led teams, that they were beyond abysmal on defense and couldn't match up in the trenches with any Top 20 type of team. They got bullied.
Quinn had decent skill talent around him, but that might be generous. None of them is making any impact on the next level and it was often pointed out that those ND receivers couldn't separate from big-time corners. Jeff S. was slated for round 2 or 3 before he realized himself that he'd never get open in the NFL.
As far as I know, that wasn't part of the equation. My understanding is that it was more of the Dave Winfield calculus: in baseball, you play longer & don't wreck your body.
As far as ND's talent, people justified Willingham's firing based on the claim that he wasn't bringing in "players". In reality, it seems like he was bringing in talented guys, just not the volume of players needed to consistently compete. Remember, one of the recruits ND lost when Willingham was fired was a guy named Brian Cushing.
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@shepwrite said:
C'mon, it's Notre Dame. They get players.But almost nobody would dispute the truth of those two Quinn-led teams, that they were beyond abysmal on defense and couldn't match up in the trenches with any Top 20 type of team. They got bullied.
Quinn had decent skill talent around him, but that might be generous. None of them is making any impact on the next level and it was often pointed out that those ND receivers couldn't separate from big-time corners. Jeff S. was slated for round 2 or 3 before he realized himself that he'd never get open in the NFL.
As far as I know, that wasn't part of the equation. My understanding is that it was more of the Dave Winfield calculus: in baseball, you play longer & don't wreck your body.
As far as ND's talent, people justified Willingham's firing based on the claim that he wasn't bringing in "players". In reality, it seems like he was bringing in talented guys, just not the volume of players needed to consistently compete. Remember, one of the recruits ND lost when Willingham was fired was a guy named Brian Cushing.
re: Samardzija
Aloysius said:
As far as I know, that wasn't part of the equation. My understanding is that it was more of the Dave Winfield calculus: in baseball, you play longer & don't wreck your body.Yeah that, plus he throws gas. And at 6'5" he's halfway to the plate before he even lets go.
..Samardzija's fastball was clocked at 97 mph..
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Quinn played with all these guys. He also played with guys like Ryan Grant of the Packers who wasn't drafted and also Jeff "the man responsible for Brady Quinn's career" Samardzija
Okay, what's the point?
2008 5 157 Roy Schuening OG Rams
2008 7 243 Joey LaRocque ILB Bears
2007 2 64 Sabby Piscitelli S Buccaneers
2007 6 189 Adam Koets OT Giants
2006 6 171 Mike Hass WR Saints
2006 6 178 Keith Ellison LB Bills
2005 6 184 Bill Swancutt DE Lions
2005 6 213 Derek Anderson QB Ravens
2005 7 254 Doug Nienhuis OT Seahawks
2004 1 24 Steven Jackson RB Rams
2004 2 51 Dwan Edwards DT Ravens
2004 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Bills
2004 4 127 Richard Seigler LB 49ers
2003 1 29 Nick Barnett LB Packers
2003 4 98 Dennis Weathersby CB Bengals
2003 5 147 James Lee DT Packers
2002 3 82 James Allen LB Saints
2001 2 36 Chad Johnson WR Bengals
2001 3 89 DeLawrence Grant DE Raiders
2001 6 185 Mitch White OT Saints
2001 7 204 T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR Bengals
And these are Derek's players.
Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow are responsible for DA's one hit wonder of a year.
So what's your point, jackass? I can play this game too.
Okay, what's the point?
2008 5 157 Roy Schuening OG Rams
2008 7 243 Joey LaRocque ILB Bears
2007 2 64 Sabby Piscitelli S Buccaneers
2007 6 189 Adam Koets OT Giants
2006 6 171 Mike Hass WR Saints
2006 6 178 Keith Ellison LB Bills
2005 6 184 Bill Swancutt DE Lions
2005 6 213 Derek Anderson QB Ravens
2005 7 254 Doug Nienhuis OT Seahawks
2004 1 24 Steven Jackson RB Rams
2004 2 51 Dwan Edwards DT Ravens
2004 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Bills
2004 4 127 Richard Seigler LB 49ers
2003 1 29 Nick Barnett LB Packers
2003 4 98 Dennis Weathersby CB Bengals
2003 5 147 James Lee DT Packers
2002 3 82 James Allen LB Saints
2001 2 36 Chad Johnson WR Bengals
2001 3 89 DeLawrence Grant DE Raiders
2001 6 185 Mitch White OT Saints
2001 7 204 T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR Bengals
And these are Derek's players.
Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow are responsible for DA's one hit wonder of a year.
So what's your point, jackass? I can play this game too.
Right off the top, I see at least a couple names that finished their eligibility at OSU while DA was in high school. TJ, CJ, Mitch White and DeLawrence Grant come to mind, La Rocque wasn't even at OSU 'til DAs second year in the NFL, there 's at least one more that he didn't actually start with.
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@shepwrite said:
C'mon, it's Notre Dame. They get players.But almost nobody would dispute the truth of those two Quinn-led teams, that they were beyond abysmal on defense and couldn't match up in the trenches with any Top 20 type of team. They got bullied.
Quinn had decent skill talent around him, but that might be generous. None of them is making any impact on the next level and it was often pointed out that those ND receivers couldn't separate from big-time corners. Jeff S. was slated for round 2 or 3 before he realized himself that he'd never get open in the NFL.
As far as I know, that wasn't part of the equation. My understanding is that it was more of the Dave Winfield calculus: in baseball, you play longer & don't wreck your body.
As far as ND's talent, people justified Willingham's firing based on the claim that he wasn't bringing in "players". In reality, it seems like he was bringing in talented guys, just not the volume of players needed to consistently compete. Remember, one of the recruits ND lost when Willingham was fired was a guy named Brian Cushing.
Aloysius said:
As far as ND's talent, people justified Willingham's firing based on the claim that he wasn't bringing in "players". In reality, it seems like he was bringing in talented guys, just not the volume of players needed to consistently compete. Remember, one of the recruits ND lost when Willingham was fired was a guy named Brian Cushing.You are correct. Do a little research on Willingham's (lack of) OL recruits and you will see why he got fired.
It really is that simple.
Despite all the BS media sensationalism about race being an issue in the dismissal of the "Molder of Men," many of the same sports media playing the race card didn't expect much from ND the next year because "the cupboards were bare." Well, I wonder how they got that way.
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Aloysius said:
As far as ND's talent, people justified Willingham's firing based on the claim that he wasn't bringing in "players". In reality, it seems like he was bringing in talented guys, just not the volume of players needed to consistently compete. Remember, one of the recruits ND lost when Willingham was fired was a guy named Brian Cushing.You are correct. Do a little research on Willingham's (lack of) OL recruits and you will see why he got fired.
It really is that simple.
Despite all the BS media sensationalism about race being an issue in the dismissal of the "Molder of Men," many of the same sports media playing the race card didn't expect much from ND the next year because "the cupboards were bare." Well, I wonder how they got that way.
You are correct. Do a little research on Willingham's (lack of) OL recruits and you will see why he got fired.
It really is that simple.
Despite all the BS media sensationalism about race being an issue in the dismissal of the "Molder of Men," many of the same sports media playing the race card didn't expect much from ND the next year because "the cupboards were bare." Well, I wonder how they got that way.
Eggs-actly. And I think Willingham was recently fired again.
Loverboy was the biggest Romeo Crennel fan I've ever seen mainly because they shared queer eye for the confused QB. All this stuff about Ty's firing and race is getting Loverboy excited about a stronger alibi than Hurricane Ike as we count down the final days of Dumb Ass starting. You know RAC was terrible when Reverend Al Sharpton confronted Randy Lerner about the firing with this question: "what took you so long?"
- Tom F.
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