Martin Rucker
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Heiden is the TE, not Rucker.
and no there will be no dropoff at that position.
Heiden is still coming off of an injury that he has yet to practice on, and he is 33 as of September 21st of this year. Although I love Heiden's game, the type of injury he suffered (ACL/MCL tear) is not an easy one to come back from as a young guy, much less one in his 30's.
Add to that the fact that Heiden was never fast...and he is probably not going to be much more than a 3rd down TE.
Heiden is still coming off of an injury that he has yet to practice on, and he is 33 as of September 21st of this year. Although I love Heiden's game, the type of injury he suffered (ACL/MCL tear) is not an easy one to come back from as a young guy, much less one in his 30's.
Add to that the fact that Heiden was never fast...and he is probably not going to be much more than a 3rd down TE.
Heiden looked fully recovered in OTAs and minicamp. From everything being said, he will be 100% for the start of camp. Also, don't worry about his speed. He never was a burner but expect him to just as effective settling into seams and running quick outs and slants.
Heiden then Royal are more Mangini type TEs then Rucker. If both are healthy it will be hard for Rucker to get on the field often. They were using Heiden and Royal in some Hback situations which would help get Rucker on the field. I wouldn't expect to see Rucker if they get into their grind it out mold.
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I have all of the Brown's games taped from the last two year on my DVR. I watched the Monday night game w/ Browns vs Giants a few weeks ago.
A 32 year old TE named Steve Heiden put one of the BEST DEFENSIVE ENDS on his A_SS twice in the game when he was the solo blocker against Justin Tuck. I only could really see two plays where Tuck was able to get around a the TE (TE, Not Lineman) Heiden, and both times he was ate up by Shaffer when he did. Heiden was the reason DA stayed clean that game. If for some reason Tucker isn't our RT, Heiden's SUPERIOR blocking ability on the outside will help out whatever RT we use. I see Heiden being the #1 and Rucker coming in as #2. The Browns play ALOT of 2 TE's so if this OC uses alot of two TE as well we should see alot of Rucker.
If Tucker starts at RT, I say give Rucker his shot early to prove himself, but with a bad RT (other then Tucker) I want Heiden in. Quinn already got hurt all to easily, lets give the kid a chance without being creamed. Hopefully he doesn't have an injury prone career (I doubt it, just how easily he got hurt scares me)
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Winslow was NFL ready, and Rucker needs some seasoning. Nobody seriously can come close to what Winslow was his first training camp. I mean he was really the best prospect at the position in a long time. WR speed at the TE position, freakishly good hands, maybe the best in the league. Well, we know how that ended. Rucker, if he has the heart and head, can be almost like that. Great hands and speed on this kid - lets see how he progresses this season. He has a high ceiling - if he can achieve it.
I pretty much agree, though I wonder about Rucker's speed: he was a 4.73 guy at 250, not sure what he is now.
Pluto said in a recent podcast that he's heard good things about Rucker, but the folks at the OBR say that he's only occasionally flashed the Winslow lite potential Savage & many here see in him. Personally, I'll feel more comfortable if Heiden is able to come back from his knee injury. As Russ has pointed out, the guy is seriously undervalued (and, according to Pat McManamon, is one of the nicest guys on the team).
Aloysius said:
I wonder about Rucker's speed: he was a 4.73 guy at 250, not sure what he is now.I think Rucker has a good ability to read a coverage, understand a complicated offense, split out wide at times, and has excellent hands, and @ 4.73 that seems quite slow for how he played. I seem to remember some guys - like Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith - have more game speed than track speed. I watched 3-4 Mizzou games and he seemed fast on the field, or at least he was very athletic. We'll see if he has the heart to take it to the next level. Walk the walk so to speak.
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As you can see in my sig, Im pretty much banking on Rucker starting. We really need to start all of our youngest freshest talent. Hall, Robiskie, Veikune, Harrison, Davis, Quinn, Mack, Hubbard. They all need playing time to develop. In all honesty I dont think you can really tell from practice and scrimmages what you have unless theyre abysmal, because some players are just clutch, or they rise to the occasion. They all need significant snaps under their belt, thats why Baltimore is usually a solid team, their rookies and sophs get PT.
Sometimes you have to take risks. I think that since we have alot of young talent that we need to throw them all out on the field at the same time so they can grow together, and develope real chemistry
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Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that a 4.7 guy can't play. It's just a matter of comparing him to a guy like Winslow: in my view, a guy like Dustin Keller (4.5 40) is more similar to KW2.
Rucker isn't as explosive or fluid, in part because he's bigger. That gives you more options in the red zone, though it might also mean that he's less likely to push Furrey for time in the slot. But that's less of an issue: right now, blocking and attitude are the two things that could keep Rucker off the field. Hopefully, that won't happen.
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Not sure it means anything, but it's interesting that during his senior year at Mizzou, Rucker only averaged 9 yards per touch. Chase Coffman, who's been tagged with the "slow" label, averaged close to 11 yards per touch.
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What I like about Rucker is he is a huge target that can go get the ball. He put up sick numbers in college for a TE even if it was for a low YPC. He will never be the blocker Heiden or Royal are, but if he can at least hold his own and not go Winslow in the running game he should see extended time, plus he can play on running downs.
I would venture to say Dabol would like to run any set with any of the TE's, unlike the days of Dunkin Donut Dinkins who was strictly a blocker and Winslow who was strictly a receiver. However, Rucker is tailor made to be a good 3rd down outlet over the middle with his wingspan, body control and hands.
The guy who made the point about Heiden being used in conjunction with the non Tucker starting RT is a great point. I don't know the extent of Royal's blocking ability but Heiden is damn near another solid lineman in that aspect, plus he is solid as a receiver too. Keep in mind, Heiden is also valuable as the backup long snapper and a pretty good one, and that is something every team needs on their roster.
I've said before that I have my doubts regarding Heiden coming back 100%, but given that he is basically a body builder he may be able to do it. TE will be another interesting camp postion to follow for sure.
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Heiden is still coming off of an injury that he has yet to practice on, and he is 33 as of September 21st of this year. Although I love Heiden's game, the type of injury he suffered (ACL/MCL tear) is not an easy one to come back from as a young guy, much less one in his 30's.
Add to that the fact that Heiden was never fast...and he is probably not going to be much more than a 3rd down TE.
Heiden looked fully recovered in OTAs and minicamp. From everything being said, he will be 100% for the start of camp. Also, don't worry about his speed. He never was a burner but expect him to just as effective settling into seams and running quick outs and slants.
Heiden then Royal are more Mangini type TEs then Rucker. If both are healthy it will be hard for Rucker to get on the field often. They were using Heiden and Royal in some Hback situations which would help get Rucker on the field. I wouldn't expect to see Rucker if they get into their grind it out mold.
Heiden looked fully recovered in OTAs and minicamp. From everything being said, he will be 100% for the start of camp. Also, don't worry about his speed. He never was a burner but expect him to just as effective settling into seams and running quick outs and slants.
Heiden then Royal are more Mangini type TEs then Rucker. If both are healthy it will be hard for Rucker to get on the field often. They were using Heiden and Royal in some Hback situations which would help get Rucker on the field. I wouldn't expect to see Rucker if they get into their grind it out mold.
They have already stated that he will be limited in practice to 1 practice per day. That is not 100%. And running around and working out is not pushing and getting pushed by 300 lb DE's.
I hope he is back, but I am not counting on it at all.
Royal is a nice player too..
The thing is, I have read in multiple areas that we will run a lot of 2 TE sets...so all 3 are likely to see a lot of action.
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@shepwrite said:
Donald Royal is a solid all around tight end. Not exactly a thrilling get, but a guy who can start games for you, block, and catch a few passes, too. But my long-term money is on Rucker as he adds just a little heft.Heiden is 33, coming off serious knee surgery, and plays at 270. I really see him as a blocker in two TE sets assuming he's good to go.
FYI, Heiden is 6'5" 270, Royal is 6'4" 247, and Rucker is 6'5" 260.
So Rucker is only 10lbs shy of Heiden's weight and is 10 years younger. I don't think it is a matter of bulk, but rather of being exposed to the necessity of blocking (unlike is college days).
FYI, Heiden is 6'5" 270, Royal is 6'4" 247, and Rucker is 6'5" 260.
In an interview available on the Browns' site, Rucker says he weighs "about 245, 243".
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FYI, Heiden is 6'5" 270, Royal is 6'4" 247, and Rucker is 6'5" 260.
In an interview available on the Browns' site, Rucker says he weighs "about 245, 243".
Aloysius said:
In an interview available on the Browns' site, Rucker says he weighs "about 245, 243".yeah...he said he lost just over 10 lbs to increase his quickness/speed this off-season. Might make it even more interesting.
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FYI, Heiden is 6'5" 270, Royal is 6'4" 247, and Rucker is 6'5" 260.
In an interview available on the Browns' site, Rucker says he weighs "about 245, 243".
Aloysius said:
In an interview available on the Browns' site, Rucker says he weighs "about 245, 243".awesome, bring on the spread! looks like they intend to utilize him as more of a "chain-mover" than a blocking-man-mountain.
so the guy lost 10lbs, got even stronger, increased his speed and gained quickness? i'm eager to see the results.
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Addressing the thread topic, did we lose something at TE with the trade of Winslow.... Winslow is a hell of a receiver and caused mis matches... However if you look at the games during the last half of last season you'll see Winslow pushing off more and more to the point the refs were calling him on it quite frequently....
KWII could have been a TE in the same company as Ozzie but unfortunately he became damaged goods... A poor route runner who has difficulty getting separation... Winslow may have peaked and it may be all down hill from here on out... I'll give him his due, he came to play every game....
I think our TE this year, whoever is on the field, gives us more options, better protection and better blocking in the running game... I think we've improved that position with the trade..
Peace
T.Dawg
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Winslow was a first round pick, Rucker a 4th.
Winslow was NFL ready, and Rucker needs some seasoning. Nobody seriously can come close to what Winslow was his first training camp. I mean he was really the best prospect at the position in a long time. WR speed at the TE position, freakishly good hands, maybe the best in the league. Well, we know how that ended. Rucker, if he has the heart and head, can be almost like that. Great hands and speed on this kid - lets see how he progresses this season. He has a high ceiling - if he can achieve it.
Winslow was NFL ready, and Rucker needs some seasoning. Nobody seriously can come close to what Winslow was his first training camp. I mean he was really the best prospect at the position in a long time. WR speed at the TE position, freakishly good hands, maybe the best in the league. Well, we know how that ended. Rucker, if he has the heart and head, can be almost like that. Great hands and speed on this kid - lets see how he progresses this season. He has a high ceiling - if he can achieve it.
There's no telling what Winslow could have been. He was one of those guys who looked like he was born to play the position. I think that's why he had a decent amount of (on-the-field!) success after going through stuff that would have ended others' careers, effectively if not literally.
I haven't seen anyone call Rucker a potential best-tight-end-ever, but the thing about that position is... there's not a lot of "great," but there's also not a lot of "very good" or "good." Not-spectacular-but-solid performance at TE provides a lot of comparative advantage -- effing Pittsburgh has shown this over and over, and so have teams like Tennessee -- so I'm optimistic that TE can still be a "plus" position for us.
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