Isaiah Simmons would be nice, but what if Derrick Brown falls to the Browns at No. 10?

Orion

So we drafted Simmons...and on opening day we're sending the defense onto the field....where does he play? How many safeties go onto the field with him? How many LB'ers?, How many DLinemen?

Does he play at the LOS on 1st down, LB'er on 2nd down and safety on 3rd?

tiamat63

@orion said:

So we drafted Simmons...and on opening day we're sending the defense onto the field....where does he play? How many safeties go onto the field with him? How many LB'ers?, How many DLinemen?

Does he play at the LOS on 1st down, LB'er on 2nd down and safety on 3rd?

Can't answer that without know who the opposing team is, what they put on tape the previous season, what we feel they might do now, personnel and schematic strengths, weaknesses... etc etc.

He could be the 7th or 8th man in certain fronts. He might play a dime linebacker? Split out against move TE's? Who knows?

gumby73

@gumby73 said:

Easy choice from ACC Country...ya take the defensive hybrid player of the year ?️Simmons.. the only defensive position he did not play was DT...

can i brag just this one time? Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..." to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'...

calfoxwc

@gumby73 said:

can i brag just this one time? Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..." to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'...

it didn't occur to me til yesterday.... that another linebacker I met in college - I and a few friends collected several extra tickets from other students who weren't going...- for a bunch of his and his roommate's family and friends for a big game. The guy who called was TE Gary Pinkel, and the linebacker's name was...

Jack Lambert. They both stopped in for the tickets and told us they really appreciated it...for a few seconds I met him again at the Robin Hood Inn a few weeks later - Jack was certainly tall, but at 6'4", he only weighed in about 223 lbs. Of course, that was long ago - but he slammed people with leverage and violence, and he was sideline to sideline. He looked lanky, but I wouldn't say skinny.

Interesting -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Lambert_(American_football)

"Lambert was the prototypical middle linebacker for what became the Tampa Two defense. Bud Carson, in his "Double-Rotating Zone" defense where safeties played back in a two-deep zone and the corner-backs played in two shallow zones or in bump-and-run coverage, instead of having the middle linebacker close to the line in run support, had the middle linebacker drop back into a middle zone to cover the seam between the safeties. Middle linebackers had not been tasked in such a way previously (Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke being the epitomes of the run-support middle linebacker), but Lambert's size, speed, and talents facilitated the new role.^[4]"

^{*************************************************************}

I haven't seen Simmons slamming people into the turf like that - but maybe his weight isn't going to keep him from being a great player. who knows?

Tour2ma

@gumby73 said:

Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..." to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'...

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

ConsciousFluffyBangeltiger-max-1mb.gif.374d3eef29271e8bd6059a81a382d705.gif

TexasAg1969

@tour2ma said:

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

Need a pro day and see what he does in the other events. Or bring him in for a private workout.

Dutch Oven

@tour2ma said:

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

Or can he dodge a wrench?

gumby73

see, easy. peasy.. may we might see Jeff Okudah taking a possible slide? 4.48 40 sat at 11th in 1st group.. looked stiff as heck in early drills too.. 3)lions. 6)LAC 7)Car. & 9)Jags... have a primary need for CB.(maybe QB too?)... I'll be now taking cover under my truck for a Oil Change hitting record... Dollars for Dugger's ? get ya sum..

The Gipper

@gumby73 said:

see, easy. peasy.. may we might see Jeff Okudah taking a possible slide? 4.48 40 sat at 11th in 1st group.. looked stiff as heck in early drills too.. 3)lions. 6)LAC 7)Car. & 9)Jags... have a primary need for CB.(maybe QB too?)... I'll be now taking cover under my truck for a Oil Change hitting record... Dollars for Dugger's ? get ya sum..

Beware the Ides of the NFL Combine. What did the guy look like playing football? It would be nice if he dropped. The Browns would have to do some serious thinking about taking him.

MLD Woody

Here's hoping we can utilize the athletic, positionless defensive player...

I vote we draft Simmons and have him stand 35 yards from the LOS

calfoxwc

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878612-isaiah-simmons-is-nfl-drafts-most-athletic-defender-but-where-will-he-play

Field Yates @FieldYates

Isaiah Simmons by alignment for Clemson in 2019: * Safety: 218 snaps * Slot CB: 286 snaps * OLB: 160 snaps * ILB/MLB: 120 snaps * Perimeter CB: 17 snaps He rushed the passer 71 times and had *7* sacks. The most versatile player in the 2020 NFL Draft.

Simmons told Jones he's most comfortable at weak-side linebacker—which makes complete sense because the position allows an uber-athlete of his caliber to chase down opponents and make plays all over the field.

Watch him identify the ball, diagnose the play, chase the quarterback, close the gap and finish from the second level in this clip provided by The Athletic's Ted Nguyen:

Ted Nguyen @FB_FilmAnalysis
Simmons goes from covering the RB to closing on the QB in a hurry

https://t.co/lPAFUu1m7u

The burst seen above is often the difference between a negative play and not making the tackle. That explosiveness can be seen in his other testing numbers. Simmons finished in the top three among linebackers in his class with a 39-inch vertical jump and 11-foot broad jump. His lower half generates a lot of power and force. This applies not only to his overall speed but also how he explodes through blockers and ball-carriers.

For example, Simmons is quite effective when asked to rush the passer. A running back doesn't stand a chance with the amount of force Simmons generates:

Charles Robinson @CharlesRobinson

Some of those #Clemson highlights from Isaiah Simmons after he clocked that wicked 4.39 40-yard dash. Needless to say, you can see the sick closing speed for a 6-3 238 pound linebacker/safety. Gotta believe the #Lions will give him a look at #3 overall. https://t.co/VvnG3YJcx4

Whichever defensive coordinator is lucky enough to coach Simmons better be creative with their overall design and play-calling, because he'll be wasted if stuck at a singular position.

Today's NFL is a sub-package league. Defenses operate from nickel (two linebackers with an extra defensive back) the majority of the time. Simmons can be a linebacker in whatever squad's base defense and morph into the nickel defender without anyone coming off the field. This advantage is priceless.

Opponents with a heavy emphasis on tight ends within their schemes can be problematic because they present difficult matchups. Simmons is nearly as big and definitely faster than most tight ends. The offense brings out an extra receiver? No problem. Simmons can kick out and cover the slot. Want to use big nickel? No issues there, either. The reigning ACC Defensive Player of the Year can play the alley or line up at either safety spot.

The fact Simmons can play deep third and still make plays on the back end is nothing short of extraordinary.

Brady @BradyVernon

A 6-foot-4, 230 pound man shouldn't have this range. But even on the field I didn't realize the ground Isaiah Simmons made up on the interception in the Fiesta Bowl https://t.co/28SXUGsPYh

tiamat63

taller Ryan Shazier.

@calfoxwc haven't forgotten your other thread. Just trying to do some film comparisons and notes between your boy Dugger and Jeremy Chinn. Both play in similar base quarters system so it has made the contrast a bit washed at times. Just letting you know i am working on it.

Bigalow80

If Simmons or Okudah fall to the browns at 10 they are sprinting to the podium with the card. To hell with the offensive line, those two guys are elite . Even if they get to the chargers at 6, it would not surprise me to see the Browns trade up to get one of them, especially Simmons. He is so versatile that Joe Woods could have a field day.

calfoxwc

well, however it shakes out in their rookie years - it will be hugely interesting to watch. Te's, oline, lb's, safetiiies.... probably are the ones who will make it entertaining for me.

Bigalow80

Random thought, if the Jaguars really want to get rid of Nick Foles and his gigantic contract. Do you think the Browns would dig up an old Sashi trick and trade for him? Before everyone freaks out, here is my possible scenario:

Nick Foles, Yannick Ngakoue, and the 20th overall pick to Cleveland

Cleveland's 2nd Round Pick (#41) to Jax

Here's the rub...The Browns are going to have to pay Ngakoue, although he would be on the Franchise tag so it could be for just one year. This is similar to what the Seahawks and 49ers did last year when they traded for tagged players. The 49ers signed Clark to a big deal, and the Seahawks let Clowney play off the tag. Ngakoue is going to get ELITE money and the Browns are going to have to eventually pay Myles Garrett on the other side in two years, but we can worry about that down the road because the Browns can always tag MG. This would allow the Browns to easily cut Vernon and save money there, unless he wants to restructure his deal and then the defensive line becomes not fair, but I highly doubt Vernon would do that. Foles has proven to be a good back-up qb and he can be cut after next year with no dead money so it's essentially Brock Osweiler 2.0 but only with a better qb.

The Browns would be moving from #41 to #20 which is the equivalent of two, 2nd round draft picks*. They would be able to address BOTH offensive tackles or OT and Safety or whatever combination you want while also upgrading their defensive line. The jags win by getting cap space. The Browns win by getting a second first round draft pick and a stud DE which would make the line an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE for teams with a quality but expensive back-up qb. It sounds crazy, but it could actually work. This is a way to be aggressive but wisely filling the roster while also active in FA and spending your cap space. I believe they would still have enough cap space to still sign a high end FA (Conklin, Bulaga, Ward, Smith, Schobert) but instead of multiple they would probably only be able to afford one.

In case you are wondering, as of right now the only real player that would be a FA from the team is Ogunjobi. Garrett and Njoku would have 5th year options picked up. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/yearly/cap/roster/

*Trade Chart below:

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=CLE

calfoxwc

wow. well, offhand, I think I pass quickly on that deal. The reason, IMHO, is that the Browns have about 60 million under the cap for space?

Yannick will get tagged - that's about 11 million, and Foles is 25 million. That right there is way over half the cap space for a back up qb they probably won't need. Vernon got hurt last year, missed six games... but still....Yannick wants about 22 million btw...

money-wise, I'm not seeing it. That's just me.

gumby73

@the-gipper said:

Beware the Ides of the NFL Combine. What did the guy look like playing football? It would be nice if he dropped. The Browns would have to do some serious thinking about taking him.

I became well aware of the Ides of idiots of the nfl network media straight out of night 1's claims... A) "Jordan Love has all the tools to become the next Patrick MaHolmes" ?

Exhibit b) "Jordan Love after combine* drills has now become a serious Top 10* pick" ?... In a instance, i grabbed the remote to mute, till this media-hack's head left my TV screen..

stay thirsty my friends ? but know when to hit the brakes on what ya hear this time of year...

Tour2ma

@bigalow80 said:

Nick Foles, Yannick Ngakoue, and the 20th overall pick to Cleveland .... Cleveland's 2nd Round Pick (#41) to Jax

Foles has proven to be a good back-up qb and he can be cut after next year with no dead money

First... appreciate the outside the box thinking. That said...

I don't see Jax's incentive. They can afford to tag Ngakoue and trade him just as HOU did Clowney last season. HOU got 2 players... one with promise, other was Mingo... and the 'Hawks 3rd rounder this year.
Per OTC Foles has $12.5mm in dead money in 2021. https://overthecap.com/player/nick-foles/773/

The Brockmeister only cost Jimmah $16mm. Foles would cost almost $34.

I do agree that any 2020 cap crimp would be alleviated by cutting Vernon.

Bigalow80

@tour2ma said:

First... appreciate the outside the box thinking. That said...

I don't see Jax's incentive. They can afford to tag Ngakoue and trade him just as HOU did Clowney last season. HOU got 2 players... one with promise, other was Mingo... and the 'Hawks 3rd rounder this year.

Per OTC Foles has $12.5mm in dead money in 2021. https://overthecap.com/player/nick-foles/773/

The Brockmeister only cost Jimmah $16mm. Foles would cost almost $34.

I do agree that any 2020 cap crimp would be alleviated by cutting Vernon.

I believe the dead money only applies to the Jaguars if he is traded because of the signing bonus. This is similar to what happened with OBJ last year. I could very well be wrong. I'm not a capologist. In addition, the Jaguars COULD tag him but that would cost about $19 million and they only have $21 million in cap space. This gives them very little room. The players the seahawks gave up were garbage, Mingo is a special teamer and Martin played in 14 games with 11 tackles and 3.5 sacks last year. They were throw ins. I'm sure the Browns could do the same.

This trade isn't perfect, but the idea is to be creative. I'm sure the Ivy league guys could make it much more palatable to the cap. The whole concept for me was to find a way to get really good players on this team while maximizing value.