Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls
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I don't think they're going to play the same position in the NFL any more than they played the same position in college. And fwiw, Simmons only played Safety in 2017 before he transitioned to OLB in 2018 and 2019.
We've discussed Murray recently and nothing has changed. He's the top rated ILB in this draft. Love this kid. I think I also mentioned - I see him as a bigger version of Mike Johnson (who I adored as a MLB for us). Murray had a 155 tackles in 2018 and another 102 tackles in 2019 as well as 77 tackles in 14 games in 2017. Killer good against the run. So, what will prevent him from being drafted within the top 10 IMO? He only had 6 pass break ups in 3 years with no INTs, which seems a little disappointing considering that covering a hook zone shouldn't be difficult for a great athlete/instinctive LBer. In the NFL, you have to be instinctive vrs the pass too.
In contrast, Simmons is an OLB that broke-up 13 passes with 4 INTs in the last 2 years (he also forced 4 fumbles in this span). Within those numbers is a guy that can either cover the slot or a RB or mirror a TE. He can also blitz and give you 8 sacks. And in 2019, he had the same 102 tackles Murray had. His ability in pass D as it projects for today's NFL is why I see him getting drafted before Murray and somewhere up in the top 10. Murray will also get drafted in the first round - most likely by a team that will play him at ILB/MLB.
As you, Tour and SDB80 have mentioned - Simmons doesn't light everyone's fire in here. And that's okay. I enjoy the conversation it gives us.
Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s). I've seen a couple mocks that have the Ratbirds taking him. That would suck!
He's a player I like quite a bit. He seems more like somebody we could draft if we traded back more so than at #10 overall. Anyone that reminds me of Mike Johnson gets 2 thumbs up.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s). I've seen a couple mocks that have the Ratbirds taking him. That would suck!
He's a player I like quite a bit. He seems more like somebody we could draft if we traded back more so than at #10 overall. Anyone that reminds me of Mike Johnson gets 2 thumbs up.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s). I've seen a couple mocks that have the Ratbirds taking him. That would suck!
He's a player I like quite a bit. He seems more like somebody we could draft if we traded back more so than at #10 overall. Anyone that reminds me of Mike Johnson gets 2 thumbs up.
What about trading up? Though I don't think I would want to have the Browns pull what they did for Brady Quinn by giving up their first rounder next year. But that is probably what it would have to take.
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Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s). I've seen a couple mocks that have the Ratbirds taking him. That would suck!
He's a player I like quite a bit. He seems more like somebody we could draft if we traded back more so than at #10 overall. Anyone that reminds me of Mike Johnson gets 2 thumbs up.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s).
Agree... I have traded back up into the bottom of the 1st in a few sims to take Murray, but have to dip into future years picks to do so...
Something that would not be necessary with the ability to deal players... ?
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And as if on cue...
The Sporting News just put out an article entitled...
The 7 safest NFL Draft picks in the 2020 class, from Chase Young to Jonathan Taylor
Tucked into the 5th spot was Mr. Murray.
Now I need to find their article on how such safe picks can be ranked so low on their "big board".
Something seems amiss...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And as if on cue...
The Sporting News just put out an article entitled...
The 7 safest NFL Draft picks in the 2020 class, from Chase Young to Jonathan Taylor
Tucked into the 5th spot was Mr. Murray.
Now I need to find their article on how such safe picks can be ranked so low on their "big board".
Something seems amiss...
And as if on cue...
The Sporting News just put out an article entitled...
The 7 safest NFL Draft picks in the 2020 class, from Chase Young to Jonathan Taylor
Tucked into the 5th spot was Mr. Murray.
Now I need to find their article on how such safe picks can be ranked so low on their "big board".
Something seems amiss...
I see that and I like it. I also see they have Simmons at #2. But in reading their praise for Simmons - it's almost like a "Warning: this guy needs to go to the right DC/situation." I think that kind of sums up your reluctance and that of others about him in here. If they're gonna Carnell Lake the guy to a Safety position - I would join you and others with the reluctance. Clemson knew what they were doing and he ended up the Butkus Award winner for putting him where he could be most impactful his last 2 years.
There's a draft guide I buy every year that lists the stats each prospect compiles. The 2 things that surprised me the most about Murray (unless it's a misprint) - for a 3 year starter he only had 1 forced fumble way back in 2017. That seems odd considering it was his first year starting with his smallest volume of tackles (77). Then he had 155 tackles in 2018 and 102 in 2019 with no forced fumbles? He had no INTs in his 3 year career with only 6 pass break ups; and this is what I'm guessing is giving people a reluctance to project this Sooner - sooner.
The irony of it all is whenever I watched Oklahoma play - the last thing I thought of/cared about was "how's he doing against the pass?" NFL scouts have to care about this in today's game though. This is why I would favor Simmons over him for us even though it's a frozen yogurt to ice cream comparison in terms of what position each guy appears to be best wired for ahead.
The scary thing is we have to find 2 new starters at OLB, 1 new starter at LT, and we probably need to find 1 more new starter at Safety when there's usually only so many rounds that deliver immediate starters. I can't wait to see what we do next week...
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lol... well CBS posted a 3-round mock with trades that validates some of my musings, but also materializes my worst fears.
On the validation side DET does trade #3 for #5 as the Fins move up for Tua. Here are the trades:
- Dolphins get No. 3; Lions get No. 5, No. 39
- Buccaneers get No. 7; Panthers get No. 14, No. 45
- Jaguars get No. 17; Cowboys get No. 20, No. 116, No. 137
- Browns get No. 32; Chiefs get No. 41, No. 97
- Patriots get No. 50; Bears get No. 87, No. 98, No. 100
Here are the Round 1 picks...
- CIN - Burrow
- WSH - Young
- MIA - Tua
- NYG - Wills... that's 1
- DET - Simmons
- LAC - Herbert
- TB - Wirfs... that's 2... and poor Tom...
- AZ - Thomas... that's 3
- JAX - Becton... that's 4
- CLE - Linlaw... teh 1st IDL off the board... can't believe that there would not be calls from teams wanting to take either of the next two players
- NYJ - Jeudy
- LVR - Okudah
JAX traded up to #17 take Jordan Love. Jones lasts until MIA's #18... that's 5...
So who did we trade up for? Ezra Cleveland... lol...
Ad who was out next pick at 3.10? Jeremy Chin... taken on pick before Matt Peart... just an added Tour nut tap from CBS.
Complete rounds here... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2020-nfl-mock-draft-dolphins-patriots-bucs-browns-trade-up-to-address-key-needs/
I could definitely see this shaking out. As you know, I was already worried the NYG would go LT at #4. You brought up a very good point about Solder's dead money. But, if he can't stay healthy enough to be or play like a starter - lyrics remind us "it's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along." They have a 1st round QB investment they have to protect so I can see them eating that Solder contract. The good thing about drafting a guy vrs paying FA prices - the rookie contract is usually cap friendlier. That is, unless you're the NYG that could be railroading themselves into pay both of these contracts. This is a good lesson to all those thinking we need to pay big FA money for the worn and torn. Washington is asking way too much for a Trent Williams trade for a player who is close to the age Joe Thomas was when NFL wear and tear = retirement. FA Jason Peters is about 6 years older than that.
I've also recently mentioned in various threads I could see TB trading up since my drive into work every day has a lot of radio discussion hopes of them trading up to protect the blind side of Brady. One caller said "they didn't protect the blindside of Jameis." And the host asked "Which blind side are you talking about? Jameis has a lot of them." Seeing how much they wanted Brady - the trade up in the mock draft makes a lot of sense especially for a team that gave up a lot of sacks and QB pressures in 2019.
If it gets to this we can either trade back or draft Josh Jones instead of Kinlaw. I've read 2 different draft pubs stating Kinlaw has a tendency to play with a high pad height; and has trouble seeing the ball. 2 things that wouldn't match up well vrs OGs in our division like Yanda or DeCastro. I wouldn't just reach for Jones here if there's no trade-back option - I'd pull a muscle to do it. Having said that, I'm starting to think he might be less of a reach than Kinlaw anyway. We already have 2 FA DTs we invested money in with too many bare cupboards to blow off for a boom or bust DT. Lindy's Draft Guide lists Kinlaw as a prototypical pass rusher. But they also list him as the DT that "Could Disappoint" stating "Among the most obvious boom-or-bust prospects of the 2020 Draft. Kinlaw alternately wows with his explosiveness or finds himself on his back, relying on his tools and losing technique too often."
I could definitely see this shaking out. As you know, I was already worried the NYG would go LT at #4. You brought up a very good point about Solder's dead money. But, if he can't stay healthy enough to be or play like a starter - lyrics remind us "it's sad to belong to someone else when the right one comes along." They have a 1st round QB investment they have to protect so I can see them eating that Solder contract. The good thing about drafting a guy vrs paying FA prices - the rookie contract is usually cap friendlier. That is, unless you're the NYG that could be railroading themselves into pay both of these contracts. This is a good lesson to all those thinking we need to pay big FA money for the worn and torn. Washington is asking way too much for a Trent Williams trade for a player who is close to the age Joe Thomas was when NFL wear and tear = retirement. FA Jason Peters is about 6 years older than that.
I've also recently mentioned in various threads I could see TB trading up since my drive into work every day has a lot of radio discussion hopes of them trading up to protect the blind side of Brady. One caller said "they didn't protect the blindside of Jameis." And the host asked "Which blind side are you talking about? Jameis has a lot of them." Seeing how much they wanted Brady - the trade up in the mock draft makes a lot of sense especially for a team that gave up a lot of sacks and QB pressures in 2019.
This was a reply to Tour (above) back when he listed some trades (Tampa and Carolina) where Tampa selected Wirfs with it at #7 overall.
Interestingly enough, on the NFL Channel today the host asked Daniel Jeremiah to come up with a trade he thinks is possible. He said he could see Tampa aiming to jump ahead of Cleveland by trading with Jax (at #9 overall) to select his favorite LT Mekhi Becton. Having said that, back on January 29th DJ had us drafting Andrew Thomas at #10 overall with the NYG drafting Becton at #4, SD drafting Wills at #6, Arizona drafting Wirfs at #8 and he listed him as an OG with Jax drafting Simmons as a Safety at #9. DJ's most recent mock draft 3.0 he has the NYG drafting Wirfs as an OT at #4, Arizona drafting Wills at #8, Jax drafting Becton at #9, Cleveland drafting Simmons at #10 as a LB.
He changed the positions of Wirfs and Simmons in his most recent mock from his one on 1/29.
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Flugs...
Have you been neglecting your Inbox?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We'll have the cap room - we always do.
Pretty sure that's what the LAR GM told Kroenke...
For as long as we can remember we've had but one franchise player... Joe T. And he was a bargain most of his years.
We hope that in the not-too-distant future we will be having to pay...
- $30mm per year to a QB... up about $21mm/yr
- $24mm/yr to an Edge... up about $14mm/yr
- $16mm/yr to a CB... up about $8mm/yr
That plus the rookie class tab pretty much eats your cap cushion up PDQ...
Sure we've got a couple big checks we will stop writing and some dead money to clear, but then there are more positions to fill, some with expensive UFAs, and more rookie deals to extend.
We hope that in the not-too-distant future we will be having to pay...
- $30mm per year to a QB... up about $21mm/yr
- $24mm/yr to an Edge... up about $14mm/yr
- $16mm/yr to a CB... up about $8mm/yr
As I've always said.. I'd rather be lucky and good...
What contract extensions could be on the horizon for the Browns?
By Dan Labbe, cleveland.com Today 5:00 AMCLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Panthers and running back Christian McCaffrey agreed to a rich extension this week. It reignited the debate about paying running backs big money, but it also got me thinking about the Browns, the extensions they have coming and what those might resemble. -
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My order of upper faves has changed and it probably won't be the last time.
1. Andrew Thomas - This won't change and I'm bummed he won't last until #10 overall. Here's a video of him broken down by Voch Lombardi who points out a correctable bad pass pro habit with his hands he thinks is being taught at UGA (when he shows the RT doing it too).
2. Jedrick Wills Jr - I had been changing frequently between Wills and Wirfs; but now Josh Jones is the guy that will tempt preference at 2.
3. Josh Jones - I always say when you visit an area that intrigues you - take a Tour Guide so you don't miss the best details. This was no different. I took Tour's Guide and found a lot to like from the 4 year starter at Left Tackle.
4. Tristan Wirfs - Is he like the band who thinks they're Better than Ezra? If not, we could be going BPA at #10 if the 1st 3 fellers and/or Becton have already been selected. For being the only OL to start as a freshman for our former OL coach Kirk Ferentz - I thought he'd offer us more hope to the Joe Thomas sized hole at LT in Cleveland. Unfortunately, he looks like a better candidate to play the RT position he played most often in college. Not saying LT is impossible with the type of strength and athleticism he displayed in Indy - it's just that all the stars and planets would have to align themselves for it to happen.
Here's a video comparing Wills and Wirfs.
5. Mekhi Becton - I might have really under-estimated this guy. Gee, there's a surprise. He's raw but he's put some goodies on film for the right NFL OL Coach to mold. I'm going to show a couple sets of highlights - first one is narrated by Voch Lombardi. The second one is just a collage of opponents that should have been narrated by Bill Withers singing Lean on Me. What I don't know from watching just 2 videos is if he's a good fit for a zbs or if he's ready for blind side pass pro in the NFL. I could see him playing RT for somebody like Orlando Brown ended up doing in Baltimore (already has 1 Pro Bowl appearance) in spite of his bench presses like a girl scout episode.
My order of upper faves has changed and it probably won't be the last time.
1. Andrew Thomas
2. Jedrick Wills Jr
3. Josh Jones
4. Tristan Wirfs
5. Mekhi Becton
3rd and Final List of my favorite LEFT Tackle prospects...
1. Andrew Thomas
2. Jedrick Wills Jr (Joe Thomas' selection for us at #10 over Andrew Thomas in today's NFL Channel Mock Draft.)
3. Josh Jones
4. Matt Peart
5. Alex Taylor (I'm 5'9" unless I'm arguing with Zombo - and this guy is a foot taller than me)
This is only my thinking at a fraction of the research that our FO and Scouts have put into it. If the first 2 or 3 are gone at #10 - we can go BPA or trade back. If we trade back, we may still have a shot at Jones in round 1. If we miss him, we can take BPA or trade back again. Shortly after round 1 (and/or with a short trade back), we should have a great chance to draft Peart. Later on, we can go after Taylor if we haven't landed a LT yet. If we do either of the last 2 choices - this plan should include us signing FA LT Jason Peters.
I think Tristan Wirfs will be an excellent OL - I'm just not sure if he'll be a RT or OG yet. He's the only OL that started as a true freshman since Ferentz arrived at Iowa. I also like what I've read/heard about the work ethic, which helps explain the results he achieved at the Indy Combines.
Unfortunately, I just learned some of the reason PFF is less than thrilled with Becton. I was willing to swim against the current for him; but I'm not willing to go kid on the yellow raft in shark infested waters (ie; the movie Jaws) for him.
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