Nick Chubb - emerges as leader, inspiration
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Nick Chubb if things work out right and he stays healthy the next Jim Brown. Class act and maybe more talented than #32.
The reason comparisons between Chubb and JB are apples to oranges is JB was 232 lb beast...at a time when lineman were about that size. That's just not even comparable.
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Nick Chubb if things work out right and he stays healthy the next Jim Brown. Class act and maybe more talented than #32.
The reason comparisons between Chubb and JB are apples to oranges is JB was 232 lb beast...at a time when lineman were about that size. That's just not even comparable.
The reason comparisons between Chubb and JB are apples to oranges is JB was 232 lb beast...at a time when lineman were about that size. That's just not even comparable.
If you look back at the 1964 BROWNS Championship team there were only players at 275 lbs and they were on defense. If you were 250-260 you were a pretty good size OL in the running era.
If you look today there are college teams with 5 OL all 6' 6"+. 300+ lbs and just getting ready for the professional game. Today's players are so much more conditioned, trained, strict workouts, diets on and on plus many in camps from their high school years.
JB was a freak in his day Chubb is a top RB today it will be fun to see him continue his career and where he ends up.
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Not comparable - JB is already better than chubb.
JB was a pro bowler every year.
JB led the league in rushing 8 of his 9 yrs.. Chubb is 0/2.
Chubb is great.. but he's no JB. Stop this foolishness.
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Not comparable - JB is already better than chubb.
JB was a pro bowler every year.
JB led the league in rushing 8 of his 9 yrs.. Chubb is 0/2.
Chubb is great.. but he's no JB. Stop this foolishness.
Not comparable - JB is already better than chubb.
JB was a pro bowler every year.
JB led the league in rushing 8 of his 9 yrs.. Chubb is 0/2.
Chubb is great.. but he's no JB. Stop this foolishness.
True, they aren't comparable, because the times and players are different. JB gave all the credit to his offensive line. The Browns offensive line is not as good as back in the day, the players didn't face the sophisticated defenses with the huge sized, athletic front sevens as they do today. All three - Jim Brown, Bobby Mitchell and my favorite rb from back in the day, Leroy Kelly - were all Hall of Famers behind excellent offensive lines. Gene Hickerson !
But though it's an invalid comparison, it is also false to say Chubb isn't as great as Jim Brown was.
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So, linemen today are just fatter......not as lean, fast, strong as those in JBs era?
I think they call this a "straw man argument."
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Not comparable - JB is already better than chubb.
JB was a pro bowler every year.
JB led the league in rushing 8 of his 9 yrs.. Chubb is 0/2.
Chubb is great.. but he's no JB. Stop this foolishness.
True, they aren't comparable, because the times and players are different. JB gave all the credit to his offensive line. The Browns offensive line is not as good as back in the day, the players didn't face the sophisticated defenses with the huge sized, athletic front sevens as they do today. All three - Jim Brown, Bobby Mitchell and my favorite rb from back in the day, Leroy Kelly - were all Hall of Famers behind excellent offensive lines. Gene Hickerson !
But though it's an invalid comparison, it is also false to say Chubb isn't as great as Jim Brown was.
True, they aren't comparable, because the times and players are different. JB gave all the credit to his offensive line. The Browns offensive line is not as good as back in the day, the players didn't face the sophisticated defenses with the huge sized, athletic front sevens as they do today. All three - Jim Brown, Bobby Mitchell and my favorite rb from back in the day, Leroy Kelly - were all Hall of Famers behind excellent offensive lines. Gene Hickerson !
But though it's an invalid comparison, it is also false to say Chubb isn't as great as Jim Brown was.
Well....what is greatness? Greatness is not merely having the physical tools....it is actually producing the performance.
NO RB has ever produced great performances the way Jim Brown did. Even the guys that surpassed Jim Brown in rushing yards did it mainly as a result of longevity, not by being a greater performer.
I happen to think that Chubb is a great performer...and could become one of the greatest. But those number cited above by Unsymp. have not been matched, and may never be matched.
He leads the "rushing yards per game" average by nearly 5 yards. At 104.2 ypg. After him come Barry Sanders with about 99 ypg. Only 4 guys have ever gained more yards per attempt.....2 of them QBs (Vick/Randall Cunningham)....one was Marion Motley....the other Jamaal Charles. Charles though was really just a part time back for some reason...only gaining a bit over 7500 yards in 11 seasons. Not sure why he was not featured more.
There are a couple of other stats that they do not keep, but which I suspect JB would likely be at the top of the heap: TDs per game (where JBs ratio is about 1 per game....compare Emmitt Smith who has only about a .75 TDs a game) and TD per season.....though this latter would probably not be a fair measure because for 4 of JBs 9 seasons they only played 12 games.....not the 16 they have played for years now.
But JB did lead the league in rushing TDs 5 times....Only Steve Van Buren and Cookie Gilchrist (in the AFL) led their league in TDs in 4 seasons.
So....while I hope Chubb could come to challenge JBs numbers....that really is not happening so far:
JB: 104.3 ypg. Chubb....77.8 ypg (but...hell yea...could have been better if Fat Freddie had given him the ball)
JB: As noted has about 1:1 ratio on TDs to games played. Chubb is only at .5 with 16 TDs in 32 games (again, maybe more a product of the offense.
Yards per carry: Chubb very competitive: JB 5.2 Chubb 5.1
Chubb DOES have 2 longer single runs than any JB had. JB's longest was 80 yards.....Chubb has both an 88 yarder, and that 92 yarder.
And of course Jim Brown did lead the league in rushing 8 time......the best after that only did it 4 times (OJ/Emmitt/Dickerson/Van Buren/Barry Sanders). Chubb has yet to get one....early yet. I think he deprived of one last year because Freddie just didn't run him enough.
So....I am not at all trying to disparage Chubb.....I am just saying that greatness CAN to a certain extent be measured by some vital stats....and Chubb is not there yet where we can say he is even approaching the greatness that JB displayed. But, we should not feel bad for us or for Chubb about that.....NO RB who ever played for any team has ever come close to JB in a lot of categories.
By the way...Chubb's 77.8 YPG does put him in 22d place all time in that category at this point. He is #4 in that category among active players....after Zeke Elliot, Peterson, L. Bell, and Chris Carson
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So, linemen today are just fatter......not as lean, fast, strong as those in JBs era?
I think they call this a "straw man argument."
I think they call this a "straw man argument."
Uhh, no, not at all. If you know what it means to present a straw man argument....it means to argue about something that was never pertinent to the discussion being had.
But the weight differential of offensive and defensive linemen was precisely what was being "debated" here to a certain extent.
Now, perhaps the original mention of the weight of the OL and the DL was a straw man argument. (You know: JB would not be so good because he only played behind and against 250 pound linemen.....that was a straw man argument intended to try to lessen how great he really was). My reply in disputing a straw man argument is not itself the straw man argument.
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I think they call this a "straw man argument."
Uhh, no, not at all. If you know what it means to present a straw man argument....it means to argue about something that was never pertinent to the discussion being had.
But the weight differential of offensive and defensive linemen was precisely what was being "debated" here to a certain extent.
Now, perhaps the original mention of the weight of the OL and the DL was a straw man argument. (You know: JB would not be so good because he only played behind and against 250 pound linemen.....that was a straw man argument intended to try to lessen how great he really was). My reply in disputing a straw man argument is not itself the straw man argument.
My reply in disputing a straw man argument is not itself the straw man argument.
Don't forget -- bad faith assertions of everyone else's logical fallacies are the only thing this icecube guy ever defends his points with.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Nick Chubb if things work out right and he stays healthy the next Jim Brown. Class act and maybe more talented than #32.
Nick Chubb if things work out right and he stays healthy the next Jim Brown. Class act and maybe more talented than #32.
Chubb is very easy to root for. There are a lot of similarities between the 2 guys. But, the 1 thing that stands about Jim Brown in accordance with all those that played with him or against him(as well as those that coached him or against him) - he was the best RB in the league. Meatball on spaghetti, most of those guys also thought he was the best player in the game throughout that period.
Similarities I see is they both came from college programs that were establishing strong RB traditions. SU had Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, Larry Csonka, Floyd Little, Joe Morris, Moose Johnston, etc. UGA had Herschel Walker, Garrison Hearst, Terrell Davis, Todd Gurley, Nick Chubb, Sony Michel, etc.
They both lettered in different sports before Pro Football. The program at SU that has their most National Championships is their Lacrosse Program while it's Basketball Program was known for it's consistency of winning. Jim Brown played basketball, football, lacrosse and track there - earning 10 letters in 4 years. While he was best known for his football heroics on a national level, many people at SU that he was even more dominant at lacrosse (All American Midfielder (Center) - that never lost face offs and finished 2nd in the nation with 43 goals in only 10 games as a senior. He told the NY Times in 1984 "Lacrosse is probably the best sport I ever played." Although not as well rounded, Chubb starred in football as well as track and field. In high school, Chubb excelled in events like the shot put, 100 meter dash, 200 meter dash. He was a state champion in the shot put while he competed in the state finals for the 100 meter dash. The SEC first learned who he was when Todd Gurley got suspended. In just 8 starts, Chubb finished with 1547 yards rushing and 14 TDs which was good enough for 2nd overall in the SEC. He also had 18 receptions for 213 yards and 2 TDs
My favorite quality of Chubb aside from his work ethic and talent - is the ability to refrain from the "I before team" mentality. This distraction-free quality is often displayed by his ability to remain quiet regardless of how talented he is. He doesn't have to act like TO (MeO) and remind the entire crowd at the stadium he just scored a TD all by himself without any help from his teammates. He's a hungry feller with an insatiable appetite to improve. That's a leadership quality Baker Mayfield should take note of. Being content with yesterday does nothing for your tomorrow. Jim Brown was like Chubb too when he scored regardless of how remarkable the run was. He just handed the ball to the official. If my memory is correct, Jim Brown also never missed a start because of injury in spite of how many times he faced 9-10 men in the box.
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Unsure who’s jersey I want this year. Garrett, Baker, Landry, OBJ, Chubb. Decisions, decisions.
Well, if you want to get the "biggest bang for your buck" I'd suggest Baker or Garrett. Unless Baker has another poor year, or Garrett decapitates a Steelers player this year, they'll probably be here for the long haul.
Landry, OBJ and Chubb? I wouldn't put money on these three guys being here in three years. (And I just bought a Chubb jersey knowing this.)
Well, if you want to get the "biggest bang for your buck" I'd suggest Baker or Garrett. Unless Baker has another poor year, or Garrett decapitates a Steelers player this year, they'll probably be here for the long haul.
Landry, OBJ and Chubb? I wouldn't put money on these three guys being here in three years. (And I just bought a Chubb jersey knowing this.)
I stopped buying jerseys after the following trend.
I bought a Tim Couch jersey and he ended up on IR.
I bought a William Green jersey; and then he got stabbed by his girlfriend/fiance right before he got suspended for drug use.
On the opening day of training camp, at the end of my ride from Rochester, NY for the afternoon practice- I was in the store to buy a LeCharles Bentley jersey when Atenears (Stan) met up with us there. I thought he was busting my chops when he said - Flugel you might want to buy another jersey because the Bentley ain't gettin out of the garage this season. ARRRGGGGHHHHH!
I brought Braylon Edwards' jersey right before Cleveland played in Nashville; and he turned into Edward Scissorhands. Unfortunately, it had his name on the upper back or I could have kept the 17 in honor of Brian Sipe.
Do they sell jerseys without names on the upper back any more? If so, I'd buy a #34 (Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack) and 73 (Joe Thomas and Doug Dieken).
I ended up donating most of those jerseys to people in need.
I gotta go - the R-Wing has a sale on Trump jerseys...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Well, if you want to get the "biggest bang for your buck" I'd suggest Baker or Garrett. Unless Baker has another poor year, or Garrett decapitates a Steelers player this year, they'll probably be here for the long haul.
Landry, OBJ and Chubb? I wouldn't put money on these three guys being here in three years. (And I just bought a Chubb jersey knowing this.)
I stopped buying jerseys after the following trend.
I bought a Tim Couch jersey and he ended up on IR.
I bought a William Green jersey; and then he got stabbed by his girlfriend/fiance right before he got suspended for drug use.
On the opening day of training camp, at the end of my ride from Rochester, NY for the afternoon practice- I was in the store to buy a LeCharles Bentley jersey when Atenears (Stan) met up with us there. I thought he was busting my chops when he said - Flugel you might want to buy another jersey because the Bentley ain't gettin out of the garage this season. ARRRGGGGHHHHH!
I brought Braylon Edwards' jersey right before Cleveland played in Nashville; and he turned into Edward Scissorhands. Unfortunately, it had his name on the upper back or I could have kept the 17 in honor of Brian Sipe.
Do they sell jerseys without names on the upper back any more? If so, I'd buy a #34 (Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack) and 73 (Joe Thomas and Doug Dieken).
I ended up donating most of those jerseys to people in need.
I gotta go - the R-Wing has a sale on Trump jerseys...
I stopped buying jerseys after the following trend.
I bought a Tim Couch jersey and he ended up on IR.
I bought a William Green jersey; and then he got stabbed by his girlfriend/fiance right before he got suspended for drug use.
On the opening day of training camp, at the end of my ride from Rochester, NY for the afternoon practice- I was in the store to buy a LeCharles Bentley jersey when Atenears (Stan) met up with us there. I thought he was busting my chops when he said - Flugel you might want to buy another jersey because the Bentley ain't gettin out of the garage this season. ARRRGGGGHHHHH!
I brought Braylon Edwards' jersey right before Cleveland played in Nashville; and he turned into Edward Scissorhands. Unfortunately, it had his name on the upper back or I could have kept the 17 in honor of Brian Sipe.
Do they sell jerseys without names on the upper back any more? If so, I'd buy a #34 (Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack) and 73 (Joe Thomas and Doug Dieken).
I ended up donating most of those jerseys to people in need.
I gotta go - the R-Wing has a sale on Trump jerseys...
That is a brutal run of bad luck on Browns jerseys!
I seriously considered going old school and getting a 50s or 60s era player, but some players you could not personalize the jersey with (Otto Graham) for example. Also, for the same price, I got a Nick Chubb jersey with stitched numbers and name, instead of a personalized jersey with iron on numbers and name, which is no bueno for me.
Greatest post-ending line ever, btw. ?
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I have both white and brown Couch jerseys...I'm waiting for them to become valuable antiques...
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Not comparable - JB is already better than chubb.
JB was a pro bowler every year.
JB led the league in rushing 8 of his 9 yrs.. Chubb is 0/2.
Chubb is great.. but he's no JB. Stop this foolishness.
True, they aren't comparable, because the times and players are different. JB gave all the credit to his offensive line. The Browns offensive line is not as good as back in the day, the players didn't face the sophisticated defenses with the huge sized, athletic front sevens as they do today. All three - Jim Brown, Bobby Mitchell and my favorite rb from back in the day, Leroy Kelly - were all Hall of Famers behind excellent offensive lines. Gene Hickerson !
But though it's an invalid comparison, it is also false to say Chubb isn't as great as Jim Brown was.
True, they aren't comparable, because the times and players are different. JB gave all the credit to his offensive line. The Browns offensive line is not as good as back in the day, the players didn't face the sophisticated defenses with the huge sized, athletic front sevens as they do today. All three - Jim Brown, Bobby Mitchell and my favorite rb from back in the day, Leroy Kelly - were all Hall of Famers behind excellent offensive lines. Gene Hickerson !
But though it's an invalid comparison, it is also false to say Chubb isn't as great as Jim Brown was.
That is just the point. It's sometimes hard if not impossible to compare across decades.
What would Chubb been like on the old BROWNS teams or JB today ?
Who were the best teams ever 72 Miami, 85 Bears or maybe Pittsburgh, SF, GB, Dallas, NE in they're heydays ? Impossible to say for sure.
And remember just like the fish we caught, players we remember or teams we followed they just get better with time.
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Nick Chubb may not even be the best RB in the NFL TODAY, but he's possibly better than Jim Brown?
And I thought there was some silly stuff on Facebook today. ?
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I stopped buying jerseys after the following trend.
I bought a Tim Couch jersey and he ended up on IR.
I bought a William Green jersey; and then he got stabbed by his girlfriend/fiance right before he got suspended for drug use.
On the opening day of training camp, at the end of my ride from Rochester, NY for the afternoon practice- I was in the store to buy a LeCharles Bentley jersey when Atenears (Stan) met up with us there. I thought he was busting my chops when he said - Flugel you might want to buy another jersey because the Bentley ain't gettin out of the garage this season. ARRRGGGGHHHHH!
I brought Braylon Edwards' jersey right before Cleveland played in Nashville; and he turned into Edward Scissorhands. Unfortunately, it had his name on the upper back or I could have kept the 17 in honor of Brian Sipe.
Do they sell jerseys without names on the upper back any more? If so, I'd buy a #34 (Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack) and 73 (Joe Thomas and Doug Dieken).
I ended up donating most of those jerseys to people in need.
I gotta go - the R-Wing has a sale on Trump jerseys...
That is a brutal run of bad luck on Browns jerseys!
I seriously considered going old school and getting a 50s or 60s era player, but some players you could not personalize the jersey with (Otto Graham) for example. Also, for the same price, I got a Nick Chubb jersey with stitched numbers and name, instead of a personalized jersey with iron on numbers and name, which is no bueno for me.
Greatest post-ending line ever, btw. ?
That is a brutal run of bad luck on Browns jerseys!
I seriously considered going old school and getting a 50s or 60s era player, but some players you could not personalize the jersey with (Otto Graham) for example. Also, for the same price, I got a Nick Chubb jersey with stitched numbers and name, instead of a personalized jersey with iron on numbers and name, which is no bueno for me.
Greatest post-ending line ever, btw. ?
You never can go wrong with vintage jerseys just pick your favorite HOF or team player guy like the 1980s, 1970s, 1960s, 1950s BROWNS key players.
Or if you want to save money the man-zel et al bargain rack.
And yes Flugel was on a roll.
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Nick Chubb may not even be the best RB in the NFL TODAY, but he's possibly better than Jim Brown?
And I thought there was some silly stuff on Facebook today. ?
Nick Chubb may not even be the best RB in the NFL TODAY, but he's possibly better than Jim Brown?
And I thought there was some silly stuff on Facebook today. ?
I'm just comparing raw talent not career numbers. Chubb is amazing at times.
........oh is this hole deep enough ?
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The Browns had holes in talent at LT, RT, and RG. Now... the stats are not going to show Chubb to be the best rb in
the NFL.
It doesn't mean he isn't the best rb in the NFL. Again, even Jim Brown gave his offensive line all the credit in the world.
Interesting:
Note - the Browns offensive line hasn't been "great", per this author's opinions, since that time in history - see number 4 towards the top of the list.
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Well, if you want to get the "biggest bang for your buck" I'd suggest Baker or Garrett. Unless Baker has another poor year, or Garrett decapitates a Steelers player this year, they'll probably be here for the long haul.
Landry, OBJ and Chubb? I wouldn't put money on these three guys being here in three years. (And I just bought a Chubb jersey knowing this.)
I stopped buying jerseys after the following trend.
I bought a Tim Couch jersey and he ended up on IR.
I bought a William Green jersey; and then he got stabbed by his girlfriend/fiance right before he got suspended for drug use.
On the opening day of training camp, at the end of my ride from Rochester, NY for the afternoon practice- I was in the store to buy a LeCharles Bentley jersey when Atenears (Stan) met up with us there. I thought he was busting my chops when he said - Flugel you might want to buy another jersey because the Bentley ain't gettin out of the garage this season. ARRRGGGGHHHHH!
I brought Braylon Edwards' jersey right before Cleveland played in Nashville; and he turned into Edward Scissorhands. Unfortunately, it had his name on the upper back or I could have kept the 17 in honor of Brian Sipe.
Do they sell jerseys without names on the upper back any more? If so, I'd buy a #34 (Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack) and 73 (Joe Thomas and Doug Dieken).
I ended up donating most of those jerseys to people in need.
I gotta go - the R-Wing has a sale on Trump jerseys...
Flugel said,
I gotta go - the R-Wing has a sale on Trump jerseys...
In today's times...this is a f'n ^^ Golden wrap-up of a post ? ....Maybe it's time, Zombo chooses a 'Post of the Month' and puts into The Board of Champions?? not a easy choice on this board
Do they sell jerseys without names on the upper back any more? If so, I'd buy a #34 (Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack) and 73 (Joe Thomas and Doug Dieken).
^^ Why of course they do.. Called Personalized..After a sister's gift failure of Wee-done & the Man-hell (once white, than dye'd a St. Patrick's Day green, for the green beer spillage) jerseys..I gave in & ordered a white #73 personalized, with the only GUMBY name on it, in any State...
The opening season of Metlife stadium, week 5or6?, Weeden & Richardson played at the Giants.. Tailgating in the Gumby jersey. We had a blast tossing the ball around with some Giants fans on our Wedding Anniversary.. Well after 'she' tells the wrong team the play call of 'Anniversary'
The chant becomes "Get the Wife a POKEY Jersey !! >>>
we share this special gift ? once a year, as the wife took a phone video with my phone that gets played every year ?
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My reply in disputing a straw man argument is not itself the straw man argument.
Don't forget -- bad faith assertions of everyone else's logical fallacies are the only thing this icecube guy ever defends his points with.
Don't forget -- bad faith assertions of everyone else's logical fallacies are the only thing this icecube guy ever defends his points with.
I don't know about that....sometimes. But here, I think he just got the concept wrong, as I do think it is a somewhat difficult concept to know when it applies or not.
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Well, if you want to get the "biggest bang for your buck" I'd suggest Baker or Garrett. Unless Baker has another poor year, or Garrett decapitates a Steelers player this year, they'll probably be here for the long haul.
Landry, OBJ and Chubb? I wouldn't put money on these three guys being here in three years. (And I just bought a Chubb jersey knowing this.)
I stopped buying jerseys after the following trend.
I bought a Tim Couch jersey and he ended up on IR.
I bought a William Green jersey; and then he got stabbed by his girlfriend/fiance right before he got suspended for drug use.
On the opening day of training camp, at the end of my ride from Rochester, NY for the afternoon practice- I was in the store to buy a LeCharles Bentley jersey when Atenears (Stan) met up with us there. I thought he was busting my chops when he said - Flugel you might want to buy another jersey because the Bentley ain't gettin out of the garage this season. ARRRGGGGHHHHH!
I brought Braylon Edwards' jersey right before Cleveland played in Nashville; and he turned into Edward Scissorhands. Unfortunately, it had his name on the upper back or I could have kept the 17 in honor of Brian Sipe.
Do they sell jerseys without names on the upper back any more? If so, I'd buy a #34 (Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack) and 73 (Joe Thomas and Doug Dieken).
I ended up donating most of those jerseys to people in need.
I gotta go - the R-Wing has a sale on Trump jerseys...
I stopped buying jerseys after the following trend.
I bought a Tim Couch jersey and he ended up on IR.
I bought a William Green jersey; and then he got stabbed by his girlfriend/fiance right before he got suspended for drug use.
On the opening day of training camp, at the end of my ride from Rochester, NY for the afternoon practice- I was in the store to buy a LeCharles Bentley jersey when Atenears (Stan) met up with us there. I thought he was busting my chops when he said - Flugel you might want to buy another jersey because the Bentley ain't gettin out of the garage this season. ARRRGGGGHHHHH!
I brought Braylon Edwards' jersey right before Cleveland played in Nashville; and he turned into Edward Scissorhands. Unfortunately, it had his name on the upper back or I could have kept the 17 in honor of Brian Sipe.
Do they sell jerseys without names on the upper back any more? If so, I'd buy a #34 (Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack) and 73 (Joe Thomas and Doug Dieken).
I ended up donating most of those jerseys to people in need.
I gotta go - the R-Wing has a sale on Trump jerseys...
Its why I said go ahead and by the Jim Brown jersey.....you won't be getting a dud.
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